Boston Marathon Bombs

[cholas]

Thanks for the analysis anart and Laura.

Here is a link to a group of vids concerning the actor possibility. Warning: this guy buys it 100% but does do a pretty good job of scrutinizing a couple different angles.....others are certainly questionable. He does bring up the chunky girl in the brown sweatshirt who 'saw it all'.

_https://www.youtube.com/user/peekay22/videos?view=0

Here again, good closeups. Maybe just ignore the wording.

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iec_LvOTvI

 

[Vulcan59]

I think it's possible for everything to be real about the bombing AND an actor or two who arrived with "veiled" (covered up with pants) fake bones protruding to be unveiled at the right moment so he could be the poster boy and ID people, AND some fake blood used by him or his accomplices AND photoshopping. The point of all that would be to introduce mass confusion and dissent amongst witnesses and analysts which is exactly what we see here.

First rule of intell: observe the situation, assume that it was planned that way. Then, figure out how.

I would say that the folks saying it was ALL actors and ALL staged are set up to do that by noticing that SOME of it has to be actors and staged. That serves a couple of agendas: 1) makes their whole schtick less credible if evidence is provided that some part of their claim is wrong; 2) generally makes them less credible to the masses who still can't believe that 9-11 was an inside job, though that group is shrinking.

On the other hand, saying there are no actors, nothing staged, in the face of many of the observations AND the logic of why it would be useful in this situation, is not very helpful either. Some of those photos of injuries raise the same kinds of questions that the twin towers raised on 9-11 - violation of laws of physics. Sure, we can stretch things and come up with reasons why the blood would stop, why it wasn't everywhere, why it was so red, why it seems to have stayed red beyond the time when ordinary blood would have started turning dark, but all of them together???

So, I'm saying, the whole situation - just as Sandy Hook - is strongly suggestive of at least a couple (or more) ACTORS who played their parts in stunning, visible ways, so as to be available for emotional hooking/poster boy type stuff just as there were compromised witnesses to 9-11 who were widely and visibly interviewed or quoted. In that situation, most of them turned out to have gov backgrounds and the 9-11 truthers were quick to find it out. So in this scenario, they probably found a way to get actors/witnesses who had been sheep-dipped more effectively.

Thank you Laura. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Renaissance]

regarding the lack of blood, I saw a reader comment from an article by an EMT promoting the actor theory, which I thought helpful in explaining some things:

_http://govtslaves.info/oregon-emt-graduate-questions-boston-bombings-use-of-actors/

Oh my goodness ... Seriously? Being an EMT-B makes you an expert? May it never be so ...

I've been through the same training, and have even gone to the next level. In addition, I'm a former combat medic. I have far more training than you, but even I know I'm not an expert.

That said - I *know* you were taught that traumatic amputations rarely bleed out, especially not immediately. I *know* you were taught that traumatically severed blood vessels have a tendency to pull back and withdraw into the skin from the shock and trauma of amputation. I *know* you were taught that in such cases, the blood loss will be minimal - nothing like the 5-6 liters you claim. I *know* you were taught the time frame from amputation until the blood vessels loosen up and start bleeding is more than enough time to apply a tourniquet. I *know* you were also taught basic anatomy, which includes that the femoral artery narrows and bifurcates before it gets to the knee. Both of this man's amputations were below the knee - there was no bleeding from the femoral arteries.

I also know you were taught how to triage in the event of a mass casualty situation - which includes treatment for immediately life-threatening injuries (such as placing a tourniquet on a traumatic amputation) and placing a traumatic brain injury (which it appears this black woman in the red sweater may have had) ahead of the triage line.

How do I know all this? Because as an Army medic, as an EMT-B and again as an EMT-I, I was also taught all these things. If you have forgotten these basic lessons from your training, I fear for any other patients you have to treat in the event of an emergency.

Either that, or you are lying about your training. Quite a real possibility.

This is also consistent with Psyche's experience.

This from webmd also supports the above comment:

http://firstaid.webmd.com/tc/emergency-care-for-an-accidental-amputation-topic-overview

A complete amputation may not bleed very much. The cut blood vessels may spasm, pull back into the injured part, and shrink. This slows or stops the bleeding.

I recently finished reading The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes and Why and it provided a good lesson in correcting common misconceptions about how we think people react during disasters. It's focus was more psychological than what happens with physical trauma, but I think the message that we know a lot less than we think we do about our reactions to disaster still applies. Personally, I've been trying to give a bit of extra room for oddities at these types of events because common sense doesn't seem adequate to interpret what is really going on (particularly when working with very limited information).

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I think it's possible for everything to be real about the bombing AND an actor or two who arrived with "veiled" (covered up with pants) fake bones protruding to be unveiled at the right moment so he could be the poster boy and ID people, AND some fake blood used by him or his accomplices AND photoshopping. The point of all that would be to introduce mass confusion and dissent amongst witnesses and analysts which is exactly what we see here.

I think this is important: the fact that such a scenario is possible. Of course, that doesn't mean it necessarily happened. What I am curious about is the victim himself. Presumably he has friends and family, and even just acquaintances who know him. If he is an 'actor,' the people directing him would also presumably know that people know him. These people would very easily be able to corroborate that he had his legs leading up to the attack, or that he didn't. I doubt (though it isn't impossible) that he previously had his legs AND was an actor (i.e., he agreed to lose his legs as part of the act). So finding and interviewing people who know him in his regular life would be interesting.

On the other hand, we have the sheep-dipping angle. He would have to be pretty 'underground' for such an investigation to be impossible. But even that would be telling, i.e., a total lack of corroboration one way or the other.

In a case like this I think we need to use both paradigmatic and empirical approaches. Paradigmatically, we need to establish if any of the evidence shows conclusively that it was a priori impossible to occur in the way it's been presented, as opposed to just highly implausible. I don't think there's been a smoking gun pointing in this direction yet. But it does seem at least somewhat implausible. On the other hand, the same goes for the other side: the actor theory. It does seem possible, but I find it somewhat implausible, since the guy has become so high-profile. Checking out his background should be possible. That's where we need to be empirical. What do we know about this guy? Was he previously an amputee? Did he really lose his legs that day?

 

[Laura]

On the other hand, the same goes for the other side: the actor theory. It does seem possible, but I find it somewhat implausible, since the guy has become so high-profile. Checking out his background should be possible. That's where we need to be empirical. What do we know about this guy? Was he previously an amputee? Did he really lose his legs that day?

Okay. Time for a little digging! Ya'll see what you can find. We want an answer to this question if there is one to be found.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

On the other hand, the same goes for the other side: the actor theory. It does seem possible, but I find it somewhat implausible, since the guy has become so high-profile. Checking out his background should be possible. That's where we need to be empirical. What do we know about this guy? Was he previously an amputee? Did he really lose his legs that day?

Okay. Time for a little digging! Ya'll see what you can find. We want an answer to this question if there is one to be found.

Well first of all there's this new news: _http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2319692/PICTURED-Boston-bombing-double-amputee-Jeff-Bauman-emerges-hospital-Bruins-hockey-game-19-days-devastating-marathon-blast.html

Showing that this guy really did lose his legs. In other words, I don't think McGowan's "they're not the same guy" theory holds any water. Even if they WERE different guys, this guy is a double amputee, so my approach in the last post still applies. He should have a background. He's currently at Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital.

There's this with some information him that could be verified: _http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2013/04/boston_marathon_victim_jeff_ba.html

Boston Marathon victim Jeff Bauman Jr. has roots in South Jersey, reports say

Jeff Bauman Jr., a man pictured in an Associated Press photo from immediately after the blast, lost both his legs as he cheered his girlfriend on in the race. He survived the trauma after people rushed him away from the explosion site in a wheelchair.

Bauman's father, Jeff Bauman Sr., grew up in Oaklyn and attended Collingswood High School, according to readers of the South Jersey Times and a Facebook page for Collingswood schools.

Rescuers took the 27-year-old victim to Boston Medical Center, but doctors had to amputate his legs because of extensive vascular and bone damage, a Facebook post from his father said Tuesday.

“Unfortunately my son was just in the wrong place at the wrong time,” the elder Jeff Bauman wrote.

The son also had to have more surgery later because of fluid in his abdomen. His condition improved later.

“I just can’t explain what’s wrong with people today to do this to people,” the father wrote. “I’m really starting to lose faith in our country.”

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers, they did help greatly. Unfortunately my son was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He had to have both lower limbs removed due to the extensive vascular and bone damage. I was with him last night and am heading back down to Boston - Boston Medical Center to be with him today. He went back into surgery last night at midnight for exploratory due to fluid in his abdomen. He came out at 2:30 and doctors informed us he was doing better. Thanks again to all you guys and girls, my friends. I'll keep you informed. Jeff B

The Philadelphia Inquirer reports the younger Bauman is a Flyers fan and his family throughout the Philadelphia area. His step-mother, Csilla Bauman, graduated from Paul VI High School, according to the paper. Bauman Jr. grew up in Massachusetts with his mother.

And there's this: _http://articles.philly.com/2013-04-18/news/38619252_1_boston-marathon-critical-condition-legs

and this _http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/04/jeff-bauman-boston-marathon-amputee-ids-bomber/

I'm not great at this kind of fact-checking, so those with the ability, please check it out!

 

[QuantumLogic]

I think it's possible for everything to be real about the bombing AND an actor or two who arrived with "veiled" (covered up with pants) fake bones protruding to be unveiled at the right moment so he could be the poster boy and ID people, AND some fake blood used by him or his accomplices AND photoshopping. The point of all that would be to introduce mass confusion and dissent amongst witnesses and analysts which is exactly what we see here.

First rule of intell: observe the situation, assume that it was planned that way. Then, figure out how.

I would say that the folks saying it was ALL actors and ALL staged are set up to do that by noticing that SOME of it has to be actors and staged. That serves a couple of agendas: 1) makes their whole schtick less credible if evidence is provided that some part of their claim is wrong; 2) generally makes them less credible to the masses who still can't believe that 9-11 was an inside job, though that group is shrinking.

On the other hand, saying there are no actors, nothing staged, in the face of many of the observations AND the logic of why it would be useful in this situation, is not very helpful either. Some of those photos of injuries raise the same kinds of questions that the twin towers raised on 9-11 - violation of laws of physics. Sure, we can stretch things and come up with reasons why the blood would stop, why it wasn't everywhere, why it was so red, why it seems to have stayed red beyond the time when ordinary blood would have started turning dark, but all of them together???

So, I'm saying, the whole situation - just as Sandy Hook - is strongly suggestive of at least a couple (or more) ACTORS who played their parts in stunning, visible ways, so as to be available for emotional hooking/poster boy type stuff just as there were compromised witnesses to 9-11 who were widely and visibly interviewed or quoted. In that situation, most of them turned out to have gov backgrounds and the 9-11 truthers were quick to find it out. So in this scenario, they probably found a way to get actors/witnesses who had been sheep-dipped more effectively.

Good point- I stand corrected. It is not proper to fully discount the actor theory just because it is highly improbable since improbable events can still actually occur. I reacted the same way when the comet impact hypothesis for the West, Texas explosion was first discussed, so that's something I need to work on myself. I tend to follow Occam's Razor too rigidly.

 

[Olesya]

Could it be that relatively small amount of blood loss was due to the fact that he was sitting at the finish line waiting for his girlfriend to finish the marathon? How long was he sitting there? If he sat there for a long time, almost for the whole duration of the event, the circulation of the blood in his legs could've been impared?

Here http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/breaking-news/jeff-bauman-boston-marathon-victim-in-shocking-photo-showing-both-his-legs-missing/ it says:

"Jeff attended the marathon to watch his girlfriend run the race, and sat near the finish line. His girlfriend, Erin Hurley, was not hurt being still about a mile away when the blasts went off." So, she already ran for 25 miles or so. How long it would take her to get to finish? For professional athletes it takes between 2 and 3 hours. For the average person it can take up to 6 hours or longer.

And what about his face? On the photos, when he's lying on the ground his face looks almost the same as on the photos before the explosion, but on the photo, where he is on the wheelchair, his skin looks ashen, his eyes are sunk. He does look like a person who suffered very traumatic injuries, osit. Unless it can be proven that was a special make-up artist on the scene putting a Hollywood style make up on him, I would say, that his injuries were real.

I agree that many suspicious details are seen there. The major one for me, is that this guy, Jeff Bauman,"helped" identify Tamerlan Tsarnaev. His reason for being suspicious was that "Tsarnaev wasn't having fun at the marathon." Him being wheeled on a wheelchair, seems also strange. The photo resulted from this was called iconic. It seems it was used to shock and traumatize people. Was it made by chance or on purpose? Who knows?

And what about the guy in the hood and glasses, who, supposedly, was strapping a fake prosthesis on Bauman? On the photos, his seen sitting and holding (?) a black woman, then after black woman and Bauman disappeared from the scene, he just lying on the ground with lacerations on his legs?

This morning, I was trying to find information about Jeff Bauman and his family, but couldn't find anything other than, what was already mentioned above. I'll keep looking.

 

[Joe]

This has been the strangest thread I've seen in years. We used to be able to talk rather freely about different theories, and not be called a loon or wishing that any alternative theorist would be 'locked up.'

Before I'm quoted out of context again, I'll quote precisely what I said:

From the point of view of the average person in the street, or rather, the average person in the street for whom there is still a chance that they can be pulled out of the fire, to say that the Boston bombings or the SH shooting were "staged" by "actors", is precisely the same as saying that Barney the purple dinosaur was responsible. Basically, they simply CANNOT believe it, and will view anyone suggesting that as a complete loon. And to be honest, I agree with them. In that case, I would sooner agree that all such conspiracy theorists should be locked up, than actively engage in spreading government disinformation designed to discredit and destroy the kind of message that we here on this forum and at Sott.net have been trying to spread for a long time.

I said that people out there will see anyone claiming that things like SH and Boston were all "staged" as a 'loon'. I did not call anyone here a loon. I also said that those internet pundits (of which there are many) who have been enthusiastically promoting the idea that SH and Boston were entirely staged are clearly using lies and disinformation and, in the process, tar anyone trying to talk seriously about the topic. The "locked up" comment was a reference to the mainstream media nuts who suggest that that is what should happen to "conspiracy theorists", and as I said, to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing the disinfo artists taken off the scene for a while.

 

[Joe]

Here's a picture of Jeff Bauman with legs. Of course, they could be prosthetic.

 

[Nawd]

This has been the strangest thread I've seen in years. We used to be able to talk rather freely about different theories, and not be called a loon or wishing that any alternative theorist would be 'locked up.'

Before I'm quoted out of context again, I'll quote precisely what I said:

From the point of view of the average person in the street, or rather, the average person in the street for whom there is still a chance that they can be pulled out of the fire, to say that the Boston bombings or the SH shooting were "staged" by "actors", is precisely the same as saying that Barney the purple dinosaur was responsible. Basically, they simply CANNOT believe it, and will view anyone suggesting that as a complete loon. And to be honest, I agree with them. In that case, I would sooner agree that all such conspiracy theorists should be locked up, than actively engage in spreading government disinformation designed to discredit and destroy the kind of message that we here on this forum and at Sott.net have been trying to spread for a long time.

I said that people out there will see anyone claiming that things like SH and Boston were all "staged" as a 'loon'. I did not call anyone here a loon. I also said that those internet pundits (of which there are many) who have been enthusiastically promoting the idea that SH and Boston were entirely staged are clearly using lies and disinformation and, in the process, tar anyone trying to talk seriously about the topic. The "locked up" comment was a reference to the mainstream media nuts who suggest that that is what should happen to "conspiracy theorists", and as I said, to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing the disinfo artists taken off the scene for a while.

Thanks. I'm sorry I took your words out of context. I will read more carefully in the future.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Here's a picture of Jeff Bauman with legs. Of course, they could be prosthetic.

But the picture only shows down to his knees! ;)

 

[Keit]

Here's a picture of Jeff Bauman with legs. Of course, they could be prosthetic.

I found a blog post in Russian, where a blog owner makes a sort of investigation into couple of curious facts about several people harmed in Boston Bombing.
_http://vodolei-13.livejournal.com/292457.html
About Jeff Bauman she says that she found it curious that at the beginning there were almost no photos, but with each passing day, if not hours, various profiles were created and pictures added. Don't know if it's accurate, so fwiw.
Here are his, his father's and his girlfriend's FB accounts:

_https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1043692236
_https://www.facebook.com/bauman60
_https://www.facebook.com/erin.hurley.186

Here are more photos:
_http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/breaking-news/jeff-bauman-boston-marathon-victim-in-shocking-photo-showing-both-his-legs-missing/

There is only one picture on his profile that shows his legs, but isn't clear.
_https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4662618077126&set=a.1534763562718.76042.1043692236&type=1&theater
BUT, there is this picture from his dad's profile (now renames as Jeff Bauman's) , that perhaps shows Jeff playing on guitar. If it's him, then he clearly had real legs and not prosthetics.
_https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1443207931838&set=a.1470896024023.61703.1582297707&type=1&theater

Here is his support page:
_https://www.facebook.com/supportjeffandfamily

 

[Mark7]

Well, he's already a hero.

Jeff Bauman, "Boston Marathon Bombing Hero", receives $360k in donations:

_http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/20/jeff-bauman-donations-boston-bombing_n_3123795.html

... and he's the Bruins' Banner Captain in a recent game:

_http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1629155-jeff-bauman-serves-as-bruins-banner-captain-vs-maple-leafs

Most recent double amputees would go through a period of depression, and need time to adjust to the situation, how long does stuff like that take to heal anyway? Should he even be going to hockey games at this point?


...and he's already helped identify the suspects!

_http://www.metro.us/newyork/news/national/2013/04/21/jeff-bauman-marathon-bombing-victims-helped-fbi-identify-suspects/

When he woke up, under many drugs, he asked for a paper and a pen and wrote ‘bag, saw the guy, looked right at me’, said his brother Chris Bauman.

The FBI won’t comment on specifics but Chris said Jeff met with agents while he was still in intensive care and gave them a description of the suspect. He described a man wearing a baseball cap, sunglasses and a black jacket over a hooded sweatshirt. Bauman said the suspect dropped the bag at his feet and two and a half minutes later it exploded.

The guy has a lot of gumption for someone who just lost his legs, and I'm not insisting here that he didn't, just sayin'.

I think that one thing we can come together on is that those "suspects" are, with very little doubt, innocent.



[Edit: added quote from last article]

 

[Mark7]

Interesting article from Slate that mentions the man with the cowboy hat, Carlos Arredondo, who came to Jeff bauman's aid:

Seems he lost his son in Vietnam and set himself on fire when he got the news of his son's death:

_http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/04/19/jeff_bauman_boston_bombing_double_amputee_in_iconic_cowboy_photo_may_have.html

Assuming it is accurate, it makes for a truly amazing story, all the more so because it involves a chain of events that can be tracked through newspaper clippings back nearly a decade to 2004, when we first met Carlos Arredondo, the man who rushed to Bauman's aid Monday. Arredondo, for those who aren't familiar with his painful past, lost one of his sons in the Iraq War. When the Marines came to tell him, he was so overcome with grief he set himself on fire inside their van, in the process becoming "one of the iconic images of the Iraq war," in the words of the Washington Post. On Monday, he was cast in a different iconic image:

New York Times article from 2007 mentioning Arredondo:

_http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/01/nyregion/01father.html

...In a whisper, he vowed never to let his son’s death be forgotten. He closed his eyes and slid his right hand across the American flag stretched over the coffin, his fingertips tumbling over each of its faded red stripes.

fwiw

[edit: spelling]