Buffers, Programs and "the Predator's Mind"

[Buddy]

Re: Self observation

Now I have a couple of questions.
The first has to do with the "work itself", begin to change their behavior from the moment they are known or however continue to observe for a while but without making any changes so far? I ask the question because ISOTM, G. says the observation itself must be deep and abiding and to not be aware of all our examiners do not start working on himself to avoid mistakes.

Hi jhonny. Congratulations on doing the Work of self-observation. Something that might help with the "observation itself must be deep and abiding" is to keep a journal of your experiences. While you live through a particular situation that upsets you, observe as much as you can. When you can get to your journal, write about the situation - what did you think about? What did you feel? Where was your body tense? What did the body act like it was wanting to do?

When you finish writing about this experience, you could do a little experiment. Using your memories of how you grew up, think about how you might program a robot to think, feel and move the way that you did in that same exact situation. The robot must believe that he is making his own decisions, even though he is programmed, so you must ask yourself questions like: what does he need to believe? What rules of behavior would he be following? What would he need to be thinking about in order to feel and move that way? Or maybe you could think of some better questions. How would you write this program?

It's just an experiment that I use sometimes. It might not work, but if you find it useful, you might be able to practice seeing deeper into your habits and behaviors more quickly if you already have an idea what could be there. :)

 

[Navigator]

Re: Self observation

One aspect of changing things you observe in yourself is this: As we watch ourselves, the ‘timing’ of our observations changes. What I mean is, when we first see something in ourselves, such as your anger at times with your wife’s children, we see it after we are already completely ‘in’ the anger. We are identified with the anger. As we continue to observe ourselves, we recognize a pattern in our emotional behaviour, we start to understand the reasons for it, and that helps us to see it more and more quickly. Eventually, we can even see a situation develop which we know provokes us. When this happens, we have a choice that we never had before. We can decide to do something different so that the situation develops differently. It is an example of how we begin to earn ‘free will’. Whereas before, the anger overtook us and we had no choice in the matter because of our programming, now we do have a choice.

Oh great insight, I have sensed this myself! Its very, very illuminating when the outcome of the emotional rush takes a different direction, one can feel in control after successfully redirected the anger - or whatever emotion is building up - towards a more creative landing. Thanks for this.

 

[Jones]

Re: Understanding the difference between temperament and behaviour

There may some info in this thread that will help us to identify psychopaths? It is said that psychopaths don’t really feel emotions, that they have learned to copy them and display them.

It may also help us identify our own false personalities in the ‘work’ on ourselves as learned behaviours can be adaptive to help us survive toxic environments…to fit in with the pack or to ensure our acceptance/inclusion.

A dog trainer that I did some work with distinguished between temperament and behaviour by saying: “If you want to know if a behaviour is learned or based in temperament, change something in the environment and if the behaviour doesn’t change then you are seeing temperament, if the behaviour changes then it is something that has been learned.”

For example, and to clarify the above, the last thing on the mind of a soft temperamented, very stressed dog is eating, it has more immediate concerns of survival on its mind. If you put a piece of food in front of this dog, that is the change in environment, it is not attracted by it because eating is not high on its list of priorities for survival in that moment. However, some dogs learn to show stress reactions because of the attention it brings them from their owners, or it gets them out of complying to commands that they find unpleasant. They may not have a soft temperament at all and they will take food in the presence of their ‘stress triggers’. So you can tell whether the stress reactions are based in temperament or are learned behaviours.

 

[hnd]

Re: Understanding the difference between temperament and behaviour

I agree that the 4th Way concept that essence is the set of capabilities or tendencies man is born with and having one's center of gravity in the moving, feeling or thinking center is for example a part of essence summarizes well what may be called temperament, and the qualities that are listed in some sources, one of which is below, can be some hypothesized details mostly about the emotional center, maybe. And It is possible to see some correlations between one's center of gravity and the theory of multiple intelligences and learning styles, as well.

(http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm)

... until a person begins to truly fuse a singular I, it is almost always the case that everything about their behavior and 'temperament' is false personality. Most therapists don't understand this, so they apply surface definitions where depth defines an individual.

There is danger of confusion when mixing terms and concepts concerning psychology and behavior and when one is involved in the Work, it takes some translation and discernment to navigate that, so a good foundational understanding of the concepts help. Other reading that might help are Life is only real when I am (Gurdjieff) and, also, Lost Christianity by Jacob Needleman.

While what Anart pointed out, IMO, is very reasonable, let me share this hypothesis on temperaments. They may provide insights:

One's temperament, as it is described in the book (http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=vScjGGgJEZgC&pg=PT98&lpg=PT98&dq=schema+therapy), might be thought of as a person's unique mixture of the set of qualities below:

Labile / Nonreactive
Dysthymic / Optimistic
Anxious / Calm
Obsessive / Distractible
Passive / Agressive
Irritable / Cheerful
Shy / Sociable ( I think introverted / extroverted may be better terms here because I am almost sure that introverts aren't necessarily shy.)

For the qualities listed above what the article on the need for secure and insecure people for the survival of the group suggests can be valid,too,IMO. I tend to think that disabilities may also serve a similar purpose considering the blind's or the deaf's improving some senses or abilities much better than other people, which may be good for the group in certain circumstances.

A dog trainer that I did some work with distinguished between temperament and behaviour by saying: “If you want to know if a behaviour is learned or based in temperament, change something in the environment and if the behaviour doesn’t change then you are seeing temperament, if the behaviour changes then it is something that has been learned.”

This makes sense considering that buffers are separate groups of little I's, so that man can without being troubled or suffering cognitive dissonance behave in completely opposite ways in different circumstances. So, certain qualities that doesn't change whatever the situation is or whatever environment one is in (on the condition that the same tendency is observed in many different situations or environment) can be their temperament, OSIT. It's worth observing to me to undertand better.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Understanding the difference between temperament and behaviour

I agree that the 4th Way concept that essence is the set of capabilities or tendencies man is born with and having one's center of gravity in the moving, feeling or thinking center is for example a part of essence summarizes well what may be called temperament, and the qualities that are listed in some sources, one of which is below, can be some hypothesized details mostly about the emotional center, maybe. And It is possible to see some correlations between one's center of gravity and the theory of multiple intelligences and learning styles, as well.

In Views from the Real World, Gurdjieff says that the essence is emotional. It's your level of Being. I think two people can have similar temperaments and different essences and levels of Being. Temperament is your "type". We're all born with a type, and the number of types is limited, OSIT. But essence is more of a 'thermometer' of Being, unique to each person. Different people are at different levels, and when one develops their soul, their essence flourishes and grows. Like WK posted, soul is essence. But when a person has a low level of Being, their temperament (innate tendencies) runs the show. As one grows in Being, they are more able to Do, and to transcend their type, becoming a New Man or Woman.

Our essence stops growing early in life, for most of us. Living in a pathological environment, with parents who don't know what they're doing, can do this! Our life experiences affect our essence, and the way we react is shaped by our temperament. I was an introverted, passive, sensitive child and I think this affected how I reacted to the emotional violence in my childhood. My father had explosive anger towards my older sister, and my mother directed her anger towards my father. I was left alone, confused, and terrified. I reacted passively, repressed my own feelings of anger and fear, retreated inwards. With a different temperament I would probably have reacted differently, giving me a whole different set of programs! Perhaps temperament is the pathways, the valleys and depressions in earth. Essence is the water. It flows in the directions and paths laid out, is shaped by them and in turn shapes them. It encounters blockages and dams. When we clear the blockages, the water flows freely, sometimes in the paths already laid out, sometimes in those that it could not reach before.

 

[nwigal]

Re: Understanding the difference between temperament and behaviour

I agree that the 4th Way concept that essence is the set of capabilities or tendencies man is born with and having one's center of gravity in the moving, feeling or thinking center is for example a part of essence summarizes well what may be called temperament, and the qualities that are listed in some sources, one of which is below, can be some hypothesized details mostly about the emotional center, maybe. And It is possible to see some correlations between one's center of gravity and the theory of multiple intelligences and learning styles, as well.

In Views from the Real World, Gurdjieff says that the essence is emotional. It's your level of Being. I think two people can have similar temperaments and different essences and levels of Being. Temperament is your "type". We're all born with a type, and the number of types is limited, OSIT. But essence is more of a 'thermometer' of Being, unique to each person. Different people are at different levels, and when one develops their soul, their essence flourishes and grows. Like WK posted, soul is essence. But when a person has a low level of Being, their temperament (innate tendencies) runs the show. As one grows in Being, they are more able to Do, and to transcend their type, becoming a New Man or Woman.

Our essence stops growing early in life, for most of us. Living in a pathological environment, with parents who don't know what they're doing, can do this! Our life experiences affect our essence, and the way we react is shaped by our temperament. I was an introverted, passive, sensitive child and I think this affected how I reacted to the emotional violence in my childhood. My father had explosive anger towards my older sister, and my mother directed her anger towards my father. I was left alone, confused, and terrified. I reacted passively, repressed my own feelings of anger and fear, retreated inwards. With a different temperament I would probably have reacted differently, giving me a whole different set of programs! Perhaps temperament is the pathways, the valleys and depressions in earth. Essence is the water. It flows in the directions and paths laid out, is shaped by them and in turn shapes them. It encounters blockages and dams. When we clear the blockages, the water flows freely, sometimes in the paths already laid out, sometimes in those that it could not reach before.

Perhaps Essence is Simple Lessons, and Temperament is the Karmic Pathway carved into the Soul? Essence being timeless, and Temperament being in time, in a linear way of perceiving. We all have the scars and the weathering as evidence; some, since birth.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Understanding the difference between temperament and behaviour

Perhaps Essence is Simple Lessons, and Temperament is the Karmic Pathway carved into the Soul? Essence being timeless, and Temperament being in time, in a linear way of perceiving. We all have the scars and the weathering as evidence; some, since birth.

I think you're probably right about temperament being the karmic pathway carved into the soul (influenced by past life events and other 5D 'programming'). But I don't think it's correct to say essence is simple lessons. Simple lessons are what act on essence. It's the thing that grows or dies as we progress in our individual 'lesson plan'. Does that make sense?

 

[nwigal]

Re: Understanding the difference between temperament and behaviour

Perhaps Essence is Simple Lessons, and Temperament is the Karmic Pathway carved into the Soul? Essence being timeless, and Temperament being in time, in a linear way of perceiving. We all have the scars and the weathering as evidence; some, since birth.

I think you're probably right about temperament being the karmic pathway carved into the soul (influenced by past life events and other 5D 'programming'). But I don't think it's correct to say essence is simple lessons. Simple lessons are what act on essence. It's the thing that grows or dies as we progress in our individual 'lesson plan'. Does that make sense?

Perfect sense. Maybe Essence could be defined as the Reflection of Simple Lessons? Or vice versa...

 

[Ollie]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

For those of you struggling to find feelings (names of emotions), like me, :) Jacob Needleman provides a list in What Is God?

nervous rejected horror overwhelmed confused comforted hungry cautious longing happiness interested embarrassed fear
bored disheartened love worthy thrilled anger unworthy defeated jealousy grim fearful envy horny ashamed
pity reassured fascinated gratitude scorned agonized foolish frisky sympathy enthralled discouraged great disgust sly
needy dismayed uncertain optimistic suspicious sad sluggish defiant bold empathy misunderstood awe blah
proud sneaky shy fulfilled cheated aggressive humility self-pity mean humiliation heartbroken forgiving resentment
restive happy enthused restless cowed confident uninterested numb melancholy desperate brash
suicidal inauthentic compassion depressed nauseated extravagant sorrow furious disappointed grief amused guilty
flattered perplexed tempted joyous alive reborn irritated heroic enthralled frustrated centered indifferent
youthful remorse kind clean eager wonder satisfied
put upon livid enraged trapped suspicious delighted bested picked on
Jewish old innocent dead dirty reluctant brave intrigued exhausted agitated impatient liberated unfazed relaxed triumphant
uncomfortable unimportant dismayed supported fulfilled disgusted daunted strong repelled troubled rattled patient
dread persecuted relieved honored defiled Irish gratified curious sadistic self-assured burdened weak used envy
devoted cheerful resentment mad lost magnanimous ill at ease let down shocked shattered euphoria exposed bitter
indifferent infatuated confident determined at peace strung out haunted unappreciated ecstatic sexy high in love scorn irate bliss invincible paralysed titillated tired uncertain disrespected muddled called fed up thrilled frenetic threatened intimidated timid wrath indecisive hostile indignant vengeful murderous proud greedy
encouraged secure worried clumsy transported surprised intoxicated

And there are many more too.

This may help, or not.

He went to quote the non-egoistic (‘I am’) emotions as: compassion, humility, wonder, sorrow, grief, empathy, remorse, and shattered.


Edit: tidy up of list

 

[twinstar0]

Wonderful explanation, thank you so much Laura. Something I've been examining and observing a lot lately.

 

[Iron]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

Following on these thoughts, I have been observing something in myself which now seems quite obvious but I hadn't realized. It is that I very often waste my emotional energy in emotional thoughts as a 'hobby' - a most damaging one, as it keeps me in a state of dream (daydreaming, literally). And I used to think that this was just observing my emotions, but it was my intellect running away with them and whipping them to make them run faster, all for the excitement of it. A sort of dissociation, I suppose. This is obviously my single biggest issue. Now it seems to me that I could have avoided innumerable problems and pains for me and others had I not indulged in the creation of emotional fantasies and theories. Things that I used to think went back to childhood trauma probably are simply the result of this vice. Or at least it makes the trauma part worse.

What im trying right now is when a emotion arises, I let it tell its history. I make an effort that my mind identifies only by name the emotion, and that is it, no questioning in the moment, no logical-explaining-away-my-heart.
Sometimes I am more sucessful than other at doing this. Still learning from mine and others experiences.

I learned something else from the Beatha breathing. I noticed that my emotions emerged more easily and stronger if I paid attention to my body, my belly in particular, and forgot about my thoughts. Kind of getting identified with the breathing as opposed to being identified with my galloping head, which is what I usually do. So it occurred to me that the seemingly random thoughts that appear while doing Beatha may be usurping the emotional energy generated by the exercise without me noticing. The good news is that I can use Beatha as a practical exercise to "feeling the feeling" and not let it be usurped by the intellect!

At the moment it feels a little like I've discovered the steering wheel and I'm going 'wow, I can actually tell this thing to go right and left!' I can't believe it has taken me so long to see something so basic. Still watching and learning to drive, though.

I will try this one at Beatha tonight. Good for you WK. Dont take it for basic, there are those who are nowere near this stage, its an accomplishment!

 

[EmeraldHope]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

I would like discuss an issue I am having with emotion because I am very stuck as to what to do with this, and it relates to something that happened here in the forum earlier. I am daunted .

I will preface this by saying I have been working on my internal programs, thoughts, and emotions since late 2001. I have been able to unravle and integrate quite a bit so I am used to feeling emotions, letting them tell there story, etc. The problem I am having is a little bit different the the other material I have ben able to process and integrate thus far and I will try to explain how and why.

In another thread earlier today, I was asked a question and to respond honestly in a way that made sense I had to revel that my father murdered my 4 1/2 year old sister in front of me when I was 18 months old. Now intellectually I have examined this 6 ways to Sunday- it doesnt bother me at all to think it as a fact, or to hypothesize about it mentally or even in certain conversation sometimes to state it as a fact.

Sometimes it does make me emotional though, and by emotional I dont mean it in a way I normally would mean it. Usually when a strong emotion comes up I feel it in my stomach/solar plexus region. Then memories will spring up or associations, and I can often times acknowlege it and most times learn from it then let it go. With this, it seems to be almost somatic or physiological. I feel it well up in my chest- not the normal abdomen region, and the tears just pour. No sobbing or anything like that just massive water works. BUT- I am calm as a cucumber, not upset at all, I will go as far as to say from an internal observer standpoint it more like " wow my body is doing this crazy thing again". I feel drained for hours afterward usually, but no upset feeling or anything like that. This is what happened to me again today.

This same phenomenon also happens to me if I am around any large male that becomes aggressive verbally or in a physical stance in any way. To my horror, it has happened to me in corporate meetings at work when things have gotten a little heated . Then it makes me crazy because I do not feel the least bit threatened- my BODY does though ,it seems, and a look like a huge crybaby and I am not even the least bit upset really. .

This same thing has been beneficial a few times in the presense of what I have leter found out to be pathological individuals who were not being aggressive in any matter at all.

I am stuck because I do not know how to resolve it. There is very little else I can delve into mentally around the subject, and I dont remember hardly anythinga t all about the incident itself- just a couple of fleeting things.


Does anyone here have a clue how I can address this so this doesnt happen?

I have tried Rolfing as that is supposed to help release trauma stored in the body in the soft facia tissue and it helped a lot of things but did not a put a dent in this.

 

[shijing]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

... I had to revel that my father murdered my 4 1/2 year old sister in front of me when I was 18 months old.

I am stuck because I do not know how to resolve it. There is very little else I can delve into mentally around the subject, and I dont remember hardly anythinga t all about the incident itself- just a couple of fleeting things.

Does anyone here have a clue how I can address this so this doesnt happen?

The one thing that I can suggest -- besides looking into counseling, if you never have, because this certainly warrants it -- is the
EE-Breathing Program. Have you tried it? If not, read through the thread, and note that the third section -- the Beatha section -- is designed to unlock and release repressed emotions, so you may want to only focus on the first part (pipe-breathing) and last part (prayer and meditation) when you first try it out, and then experiment with the Beatha version when you have gotten used to those first, since it can be volatile in the beginning for some people.

Otherwise, I'm really sorry to hear that you had this experience, EmeraldHope -- that was a very horrible thing you had to witness, even if you don't remember it clearly.

 

[Iron]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

In another thread earlier today, I was asked a question and to respond honestly in a way that made sense I had to revel that my father murdered my 4 1/2 year old sister in front of me when I was 18 months old. Now intellectually I have examined this 6 ways to Sunday- it doesnt bother me at all to think it as a fact, or to hypothesize about it mentally or even in certain conversation sometimes to state it as a fact.

This is just awful, horrible to hear. Sorry for you loss, and for you witnessing such cruelty.
I dont think it should bother the mind, after all, without a moral compass, (not implying you dont have a moral compass) the mind is just that, analytical. It does not feel, unless it is tangled with emotions.
In such a case I think its evidence of something else though.

Sometimes it does make me emotional though, and by emotional I dont mean it in a way I normally would mean it. Usually when a strong emotion comes up I feel it in my stomach/solar plexus region. Then memories will spring up or associations, and I can often times acknowlege it and most times learn from it then let it go. With this, it seems to be almost somatic or physiological. I feel it well up in my chest- not the normal abdomen region, and the tears just pour. No sobbing or anything like that just massive water works. BUT- I am calm as a cucumber, not upset at all, I will go as far as to say from an internal observer standpoint it more like " wow my body is doing this crazy thing again". I feel drained for hours afterward usually, but no upset feeling or anything like that. This is what happened to me again today.

It seems like your mind is dissociating in these events. The drained feeling may be a clue that these events are not of a cleansing nature.
Have you checked the cassiopedia entry on dissociating?
The Big 5 psychology books may hold some clues to you as well.

This same phenomenon also happens to me if I am around any large male that becomes aggressive verbally or in a physical stance in any way. To my horror, it has happened to me in corporate meetings at work when things have gotten a little heated . Then it makes me crazy because I do not feel the least bit threatened- my BODY does though ,it seems, and a look like a huge crybaby and I am not even the least bit upset really. .

Any large male? Did your father was a large male? Maybe not but I think any male would be perceived as a large male by a 18 months old baby.
Are you aware of the Eiriu Eolas breathing and meditation programme?
It may help you to be free of the grip of this situation.

This same thing has been beneficial a few times in the presense of what I have leter found out to be pathological individuals who were not being aggressive in any matter at all.

Can you elabore how it was useful?

I am stuck because I do not know how to resolve it. There is very little else I can delve into mentally around the subject, and I dont remember hardly anythinga t all about the incident itself- just a couple of fleeting things.


Does anyone here have a clue how I can address this so this doesnt happen?

I have tried Rolfing as that is supposed to help release trauma stored in the body in the soft facia tissue and it helped a lot of things but did not a put a dent in this.

Again I refer you to http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=12837.0
If you are not doing EE I suggest you start doing so, as it is helping many to release stored traumas and programming from childhood!

The big Five Books:
Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon

Keep us informed, and take care!

 

[EmeraldHope]

Re: Emotions and self-observation

... I had to revel that my father murdered my 4 1/2 year old sister in front of me when I was 18 months old.

I am stuck because I do not know how to resolve it. There is very little else I can delve into mentally around the subject, and I dont remember hardly anythinga t all about the incident itself- just a couple of fleeting things.

Does anyone here have a clue how I can address this so this doesnt happen?

The one thing that I can suggest -- besides looking into counseling, if you never have, because this certainly warrants it -- is the
EE-Breathing Program. Have you tried it? If not, read through the thread, and note that the third section -- the Beatha section -- is designed to unlock and release repressed emotions, so you may want to only focus on the first part (pipe-breathing) and last part (prayer and meditation) when you first try it out, and then experiment with the Beatha version when you have gotten used to those first, since it can be volatile in the beginning for some people.

Otherwise, I'm really sorry to hear that you had this experience, EmeraldHope -- that was a very horrible thing you had to witness, even if you don't remember it clearly.

Thank you for your kind words Shijing. I want to make clear though that I am in no way looking for sympathy here. There is just no way to address this without saying the cause I dont think.

I have been doing the EE program . So far nothing much has happened yet that I think applies to this issue.

I did do counseling on this at the same time that I got my rolfing done . Like I said- it seems physiological as opposed to pshycological.

The breathing certaing helps a lot. When I first started working on myself I did a breathing exercise that was supposed to release buried emotion ( I cant remember the name now) but it is similar to EE. It exploded out of me as I was very stuffed up. I felt like I had a gaping hole in my solar plexus for about 3 weeks after that inital relase. Deep dry sobs for 3-4 hours. So I know that EE is very beneficial.

I was just hoping maybe someone else here had some idea of what I am talking about and maybe knew a more direct method to get it out as I for one sure have now clue.