Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

[Laurs]

Laurs, why no link to the Rappaport article?

Sorry Laura, I got it in my email, here's the link

Turn the economy back on; even Fauci is confessing - by Jon Rappoport - Easton Spectator

If I could reach through my screen and physically shake people with this news, I would.

www.eastonspectator.com

 

[anartist]

Something is seriously going on behind the scenes amidst this worldwide hoax. A couple of days ago RT posted a couple of intriguing articles

Run for the hills! Pentagon sends teams into MOUNTAIN BUNKERS as pandemic preparations go into full swing Run for the hills Pentagon sends teams into Mountain Bunkers as Pandemic preparations go into full swing.

Trump greenlights call-up of one MILLION reservists to battle Covid-19 Trump greenlights call up of 1 million reservists to battle COVID-19

Now my tinfoil hat is on, please excuse, I think Pandora's Box has been opened and when this hoax is declared over, will there be mass social disruptions and chaos? Because a large portion of the population will become aware that the wool has been pulled over their eyes, and the massive restrictions to financial and movement are in place. In there hubris, they will not be able to close the lid on the box they have opened.

On another note, there was a short that Trudeau's wife and children had left Ottawa for their residence in Quebec. He remains in self isolation.

If this is noise, please let me know, I don't want to disrupt the thread .

It seems this is the sort of activity Joe was talking about. i.e. what is happening in the background under the cover of the COVID-19 'crisis', so I do not think it is noise at all.
Thanks for keeping your eyes open and passing what you see on.
My self I am seeing many more places I shop refusing to take cash under the guise of not passing on the 'deadly virus', so that is another action we are being 'normalized' to, and hence deepening the control of the populace.

 

[biuta]

Interesting article on Preparing for a Pandemic from the Harvard Business Review back in 2006.

Preparing for a Pandemic

Reprint: F0605A This month, all of HBR’s Forethought contributions address avian influenza, its potential to become a pandemic, and the red flags this possibility raises for businesses. Jeffrey Staples warns that the H5N1 strain of the avian flu represents a new class of global threats and urges...

hbr.org

Some highlights:

Should a pandemic emerge, it would become the single greatest threat to business continuity and could remain so for up to 18 months.

Current models suggest that the next pandemic is likely to come in three waves, with each wave sweeping across the globe in a matter of weeks and lasting as long as three months.

They even point out that networking is a great strategy! Go figure...

Organization 2 is clearly better positioned to respond to evolving, unpredictable threats. We know from complexity theory that following a few basic crisis-response principles is more effective than having a detailed a priori plan in place.

So then why is Gordon Brown calling for a centralized leadership? Interestingly enough, the EU CFR is pushing a somewhat anti US agenda and while it does point to a distributed leadership, they also single out Angela Merkel as a catalyzing factor, but I digress. Coming back to the Harvard Business Review article.

What would the group do, for instance, if 30% of the company’s factory workforce in Asia dropped out? What if the United States closed its borders?

Companies should think about applying an open-source model to crisis response.

I guess that is why the US tried to get exclusive rights to the German vaccine, huh?

In a continuing crisis—a war or a pandemic—people want a great deal more. They want leaders who strive to unify their followers. They want leaders with Winston Churchill’s ability to articulate the common threat and inspire people to overcome it together. During a long siege, people look to their leaders for hope. Above all, they want those leaders to be individuals who are capable of greatness and who aspire to it.

If a worst-case scenario unfolds as a result of avian flu, organizations will be stressed in ways that can’t be fully anticipated. As the pressure mounts, people will scrutinize their leaders relentlessly. They will expect their leaders to make smart decisions, yes, but they will also want leaders who have the ability, as Franklin Delano Roosevelt did, to comfort and galvanize them.

Abraham Lincoln is the great American model for this collaborative approach to crisis leadership. As Doris Kearns Goodwin describes in her biography Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln drafted a wartime brain trust of former political rivals. He knew that Edwin M. Stanton had dismissed him as a country bumpkin, but he also believed that Stanton was the secretary of war the nation needed.

I guess the US leadership should review their history notes?

Widespread avian flu would introduce a new level of uncertainty into our already unsettled lives. If the threat escalates, people may be quarantined involuntarily. Whatever their organizational affiliation, people will feel they are losing control. The situation will require tireless, persuasive, optimistic—but factual—communication on the part of leaders. The medium of communication won’t matter much. In some organizations, leaders or their designees may want to start blogging regularly on flu-related matters. The tone of these communications will be critical, however. One of the insidious qualities of a health threat is that it destroys social cohesion. In the face of a deadly disease, people will become fearful of one another. Individuals who have amicably shared office space will begin recoiling every time a colleague sneezes. Genuine leaders will find the words to ameliorate those fears and enable people to remain connected and productive.

If the flu becomes a plague, employees must be assured that no organizational function is as important as their well-being. A pandemic would be an economic disaster, but it would also be an opportunity for organizations to repair the perception (often sadly true) that institutions no longer care about individual members.

When I travel, I have a growing sense that people worldwide are frightened, hunkering down, worried about grotesque threats—terrorism, environmental degradation—that they can barely articulate.

When people face risks, they want facts that can help them make better decisions, even if they’re getting bad news. Confusing or irrelevant messages can make them uncertain and angry, forcing them to look elsewhere for help.

Risk messages backfire when their authors try to spin the truth. In emergencies, spinners might fear that accurate information will incite panic. In fact, research shows that, in crises, ordinary citizens typically respond responsibly, even bravely. The better the information they have, the more effective their actions will be.

The model presented below is intentionally simplistic, with a sampling of the factors relevant to businesses planning for a pandemic. It’s meant as an orienting map, which firms can adapt to address their special concerns and circumstances. It shows, in gray ovals (outcome nodes), potential impacts of a pandemic, such as morbidity (incidence of disease), mortality, and health care costs. It shows, in white ovals (chance nodes), factors determining those impacts, such as the rate of spread, medical care, and the extent of absenteeism. And it shows, in orange rectangles (action nodes), interventions that might blunt a pandemic’s effects, such as antibiotics strategies (to reduce flu complications), makeshift hospitals (to distribute health care locally), and barrier methods, like masks and hand washing (to prevent disease spread while maintaining social interaction).

The best one-stop resource for managers is Flu Wiki (http://fluwikie.com), a collaborative flu encyclopedia and portal that presents an array of official and unofficial information.

Great idea, however, it seems it has been taken down some time mid-2013. I was able to find an older version through the way back machine from Jun 14 2013, not much there though on first glance.

When government officials respond to a public health disaster, they’re in a position to either save lives or wreak havoc in ways that no one else can. Working in disease control for the past 30 years, I’ve found that the difference between successful and bungled responses often depends on government competence in three key areas: providing early disease detection, rapidly responding with sufficient vaccines and treatments, and supplying credible information about symptoms and how to prevent transmission.

So what should we expect from public officials in the event of a pandemic? The government of New Zealand outlined its own job description regarding health emergencies. The summary is a good template for all governments to follow:
1. Create a preparedness plan.
2. Work to keep the disease out of the country.
3. Stamp it out if it gets into the country.
4. Manage national response during the acute phase.
5. Help the country recover from it.

In the light of the above (keep in mind this text is from 2006) the talk of the NZ PM about keeping the borders closed for a long time makes more sense.

In the United States, employees are protected under the Occupational Safety and Health Act, so if an employee becomes infected at work, the employer may face penalties.

Consider stocking up on disinfectant wipes, disposable gloves, and masks (which could later become hard to obtain), and plan staffing, shift work, and even physical layout changes to minimize contact among employees.

I guess a lot of countries around the World didn't read the memo or didn't take it seriously.

If an avian flu pandemic strikes, it will have hugely disruptive effects on global society and the economy. I can say this because I have lived through a mini–test case of such an event: the 2003 outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, in Toronto.

Trial run?

By far, the part of Toronto most severely compromised by SARS was its health care system. Because the first reported SARS patient in the area presented no history of contact with pneumonia (his mother, just back from Hong Kong, had died from undiagnosed pneumonia the week before), hospitals did not recognize right away that this was SARS. Thus, they placed infected individuals in double rooms, exposing other patients, their families, care providers, and other frontline workers to the virus. By the end of the epidemic, nearly half of the reported cases were among the health care workers; three of them died. Even though all hospital procedures were reengineered within 72 hours once it became clear we were dealing with SARS, surveillance and infection control were still inadequate.

Beyond shortcomings in treating SARS itself, the burden on the health care system caused delays in testing for and treating other illnesses. Patients had to postpone or skip essential treatments such as chemotherapy and radiation. Family doctors and specialists were overwhelmed. I visited a physician who had a sign on his door telling patients to go to the nearest emergency room if they had a dry cough or fever. To avoid risk of infection, many people refused dental work, and many dentists refused patients.

Although the impact of SARS on Canadian GDP is difficult to tease out from other factors, the Bank of Canada has estimated that the disease cut second-quarter GDP by 0.6%. Moderate as this estimate sounds, the effect in Toronto was significantly more dramatic, as Toronto represents about 15% to 20% of Canada’s economic activity. The negative economic and social effects of SARS in Hong Kong were even more severe, as it suffered seven times as many cases and fatalities as all of Canada did. During the peak of the outbreak, in the United States—where there were no deaths from SARS—transpacific travel fell 40% below the previous year’s level.

Many scientists assume that China would be the epicenter of an avian flu pandemic, a possibility that would have far-reaching economic consequences.

OK... so now the following can be considered an analysis, but think what it would mean if you would use something like this for warfare...

Garden-variety seasonal influenza is disproportionately dangerous to people with underlying illnesses or with relatively weak immune systems, many of whom are in their fifties and beyond. However, because avian flu can cause immune system hyperactivity, it is also especially lethal in those with the strongest immune systems. Thus, unlike seasonal influenza, avian flu could kill the most productive members of the workforce. This outcome would compound the already apparent impact of China’s 1979 one-child-per-family policy, which has reduced the size of the cohort entering the labor force. The workforce would shrink even faster, putting pressure on China’s inadequate social safety net and on the low real wages that sustain China’s workshop.

Fully 90% of China’s exports are manufactured; a quarter of these head to the U.S. market, accounting for a fifth of U.S. imports. Disease in the manufacturing workshop will depress China’s performance as the world’s third-largest exporter because of potential harm to its main customers (the United States, the European Union, and Japan) and to its East Asian suppliers, which provide almost half of China’s imports. The impact will be felt differently by different industries and types of businesses.

About 45% of China’s exports are telecom and office equipment, textiles, apparel, or auto parts; most of these items are produced by large foreign-invested enterprises in coastal areas. Such enterprises will fare reasonably well because governments and employers will act quickly to contain disease outbreaks and locate alternative labor. Instead, problems will arise among local parts suppliers and those who produce the other half of China’s manufactured exports. These producers are domestically owned small businesses, operating with thin margins and supplying the parts for the country’s export platforms and myriad consumer goods—leather, plastics, furniture, toys, sports equipment, food—that giant retailers like Wal-Mart then import. Logistical and employment problems, both from quarantines and from the spread of flu, would ripple through international markets to consumers and retailers in the form of higher prices and lower availability, sales, and employment.

 

[Jones]

If this is noise, please let me know, I don't want to disrupt the thread

No, I agree with anartist. That's an interesting connection you've made there and adds to the larger picture that is being constructed.

I wonder if the two points raised by Joan should go into the timeline?

 

[syldan]

Translation of mamibio74 's post from french. i ALWAYS USE GOOGLE translate now. And I was trained in translation. It seems to only not work good with russian, haha. But once the original is in complete sentences, the translation is pretty close.

Last night, a friend called me to tell me that she had an unpleasant bronchitis in early February and that she had fallen and broken her shoulder. She was taken to the hospital and waited for a caregiver to pick her up. She heard the secretary cancel all operations. There was no one in the hospital, the hallways were empty. They treated his bronchitis (following complications) and then operated on his shoulder 3 weeks later. She told me that both times there were empty rooms reserved for coronavirus cases (she discovered it by a nurse) The second time, there was no one in the corridors (as in the proposed video by Konstantin). it was not a field hospital. It happened in Haute-Savoie, France. Did my message go well in English?

We witnessed this in Québec also last week. Very creepy walking through a hospital at 9pm in Montreal, and not crossing ONE SINGLE person on the first 2 floors? I had to go and find out for myself.
Then I was escorted out.... Matter of factly! "Nothing to see here, dont come back!" IN MY MIND IF ENOUGH PEOPLE SAW THIS, a change would occur from within. No wonder we're not allowed out!

 

[biuta]

Sometimes, a lawsuit is the only way to get to the truth because the court has the power to order "discovery", that is, the offender has to produce all details about what they did or did not do, financial records, etc. Or, the suing party has to show their hand justifying their suit.

When things get into court, if the system is unbiased, cold hard reality hits people in the face and that's something that many never forget and don't repeat the mistake. It can also lead to changes in laws.

@Laura maybe as a matter of strategy if we knew what we were looking for and hoped we can expose the truth by doing that, but I had a feeling that @griffin was being upset by the medical profession in general and I think that MDs are people just like us, the vast majority of them with good intentions, which are also being put in a very difficult situation by the scientific establishment (if I can call it that way) and its well documented corruption, as well as under tremendous pressure currently with this crisis, and, I thought that wasn't fair. Maybe I misunderstood. If we were to find the actual culprits I think we need to apply the follow the money principle.

 

[mARTinSky]

@Laura maybe as a matter of strategy if we knew what we were looking for and hoped we can expose the truth by doing that, but I had a feeling that @griffin was being upset by the medical profession in general and I think that MDs are people just like us, the vast majority of them with good intentions, which are also being put in a very difficult situation by the scientific establishment (if I can call it that way) and its well documented corruption, as well as under tremendous pressure currently with this crisis, and, I thought that wasn't fair. Maybe I misunderstood. If we were to find the actual culprits I think we need to apply the follow the money principle.

I don't know what exactly @griffin meant but I think @Laura didn't mean lawsuit against individual MDs but rather against their decision makers.

 

[Gawan]

Professor Sucharit Bhakdi does NOT back down - now he sent an open letter to Chancellor Angela Merkel, here's the english version (link):

Here is the video with English subtitles:

 

[Donjuan]

Donjuan, as much as I believe what you are saying, and see it happening in France too, the problem still remains, in the sense that what you have been posting about does not prove that there is a real problem in terms or a real disease or "pandemic". These are all decisions from the medical authorities. Okay, it never happened before, but what about the ACTUAL cases? When you look at the things that have been posted here and elsewhere about the reliability of the tests, can you as a doctor say, with 100% certainty, that all the "extra patients" are COVID19 patients, or is that the label that they have been assigned? And among the real ones, how many have other underlying diseases which have put them in a serious condition?

Ambulatory treatments and surgeries being cancelled are not proof of a dire situation unless they match a real problem behind the decision. The same with only letting people enter the hospital through the emergencies. Etc, etc. So, as honestly as you may be in reporting what you witness, I'd like to know more about the actual cases you are treating, the certainties behind the diagnoses, and anything you can offer in terms of proof. Otherwise, we turn around in circles. I understand that the situation looks critical, but we know that panic is contagious, and that a situation may not be what it looks like, that facts are distorted and a "reality" created around them, etc.

I never told that is a global pandemics and i repeatly told that is NOT IN EVERY place. I am telling only the facts and i am not telling that the government actions were right.

I am saying that in some hotspot this virus stroke hard and this created a REAL problem. And it's collapsed the health system in these area due to the high hospitalization and ICU need and this create a bigger problem. The reaction may be exagerated and someone are takimg advantage but there's some truth at the base . Also in Saudi Arabia there were MERS epidemics (with little number fortunately): do you think that they mistake the diagnosis or exagerate the number?

This virus is a serious thing (also the flu is) because is very contagiuos and with a high rate of pneumoniae. And if you get a pneumoniae (whatever the pathogen you have) you have a very serious condition (also if you are young). Fortunately most go mild and recovers (80%) in 2 weeks but the remaining need hospitalization and or ICU treatment. And if the number are high - probably in Italy we have at least 10 time the official cases - in terms of cases you can easily understand that this could be a REAL health problem. Problem worsened by the autorithy which stopped all non emergency visit/treatment.

The diagnosis for moderate/severe to critical cases are very easy to do you cannot mistake. The PCR exam on swabs are not sensible (50% sens) but the CT thorax is the gold standard. Is not hard to make this diagnosis. You can find the details on the chinese guidelines (i cannot attach because too big). And we aren' t all dumb we test also other pathogens and we do the diagnosis in the patient interest. If i misdiagnosis a covid pneumoneae i can kill the patient because the therapy and treatment are different.
Most of people admitted with pneumoniae have comorbidities and are +70years and they goes worse. But we saw also many young people with pneumoniae and a part of that have gone in ICUs or is in hospital. And this number is out of ordinary.
Yes we see many ER access to the hysteria with mild syntoms (but we see every day before this) and the decision of medical authority are very questionable i agree. This is the consequence not a cause.

As soon as possible i can forward other data/proof but i posted some links and you can find all the numbers. I post also out hospital guide lines (20 march in Italian). In next moths there will be also epidemiological studies however.

My sentiment is that for many people and forum members whatever proof or description i give they don't believe anyway. I understand because is better and safer to think (and 1 month ago i feel exactly the same) that all is an exageration and this virus is less than a cold.
I am used to this. The world is full of people than know more than me in medical term and that don't need a medical degree to make or confute diagnosis. No problem for me. If my contribute is not useful and create fear i would stop posting.
But i am only telling the truth of facts. Personally i prefer to hear the truth. If 1 month ago a chinese doctor have had told me what happened in Wuhan area and the clinical characteristic of the virus i would have done some different choices and action and maybe now i would not be in quarantine with coronavirus..

 

[Agron]

The whole of Ireland has around 3000 cases 64 deaths.

I heard a number three days ago from that interview with Dr. Mila Alečković I posted today where she confirms the relation btween corona deaths and meninigitis vaccinations in Italy. They were done en mass in certain regions because of the large numbers of middle east and African immigrants there. Some 2 months prior to the outbreaks in Italy.

It was said that 150 000 people die every day globaly from old age and complications due to being old. And in 3 months of corona craze theres only 20 000 deaths. One day 150000 vs 3 months!! and 20000 (supposed, probably the number is even less)

Telling eh?
Which makes you think why all these people are still panicking and making others more fearfull. Theres mountains of information how this is artifically induced virus scare. People act like TV ...

 

[biuta]

This article from History.com leads to something that might be interesting:

Influenza ‑ Causes, Treatments & Pandemics

The flu, or influenza, is a highly contagious viral infection that mainly affects the respiratory system. It’s usually a seasonal illness, with yearly outbreaks killing hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Though rare, completely new versions of the virus may infect people and...

www.history.com

It lists a few references, one of which is:

Estimating Seasonal Influenza-Associated Deaths in the United States. CDC.

I tried accessing that link and I am getting this:



OK, so then going to the way back machine we find that some time between July 16 and July 25 of 2019 this page has been taken down.
I know that looking at this as being more or less around the same time Ft. Detrick was closed? would make me a conspiracy theorist, right?

There's a lot of information on that page, but, at first glance, it seems that the CDC is not actually counting deaths by counting certificates that have "influenza" listed as cause of death, but rely on some algorithms.

Why doesn’t CDC base its seasonal flu mortality estimates only on death certificates that specifically list influenza?
Seasonal influenza may lead to death from other causes, such as pneumonia, congestive heart failure, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It has been recognized for many years that influenza is underreported on death certificates and patients aren’t always tested for seasonal influenza infection, particularly the elderly who are at greatest risk of seasonal influenza complications and death. Some deaths – particularly among the elderly – are associated with secondary complications of influenza (including bacterial pneumonias). Influenza virus infection may not be identified in many instances because influenza virus is only detectable for a short period of time and/or many people don’t seek medical care until after the first few days of acute illness. For these and other reasons, statistical modeling strategies have been used to estimate seasonal flu-related deaths for many decades. Only counting deaths where influenza was included on a death certificate would be a gross underestimation of seasonal influenza’s true impact.

And

How many adults die from flu each year?
Flu deaths in adults are not nationally notifiable. In order to monitor influenza related deaths in all age groups, CDC tracks pneumonia and influenza (P&I)–attributed deaths through the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) Mortality Reporting System. This system tracks the proportion of death certificates processed that list pneumonia or influenza as the underlying or contributing cause of death. This system provides an overall indication of whether flu-associated deaths are elevated, but does not provide an exact number of how many people died from flu. As it does for the numbers of flu cases, doctor’s visits and hospitalizations, CDC also estimates deaths in the United States using mathematical modeling. CDC estimates that from 2010-2011 to 2017-2018, influenza-associated deaths in the United States ranged from a low of 12,000 (during 2011-2012) to a high of 79,000 (during 2017-2018). The model used to estimate flu-associated deaths uses a ratio of deaths-to-hospitalizations in order to estimate the total flu-related deaths during a season.

I think a request for ethical disclosure of these algorithms is necessary in order to untangle the situation. We are being manipulated through statistics and semantics (as well as emotions).

 

[biuta]

I don't know what exactly @griffin meant but I think @Laura didn't mean lawsuit against individual MDs but rather against their decision makers.

I think the decision makers are still an outer layer of the onion. The problem is that the Hospitals are already not being led by MDs anymore, as they need business people and politicians to take on that role in order to make decisions based on KPIs rather than the Patient's welfare.

 

[mARTinSky]

I think the decision makers are still an outer layer of the onion. The problem is that the Hospitals are already not being led by MDs anymore, as they need business people and politicians to take on that role in order to make decisions based on KPIs rather than the Patient's welfare.

That's true and lawsuit would help to expose it.

 

[Renaissance]

For some reason, today, off an on, I keep getting the strong feeling of something big waiting in the wings. Like the other shoe is going to drop.

Same here, and I think one 'shoe' could very well come in the form of economic collapse. I belong to a private FB about taxes, and while this stuff isn't usually the most exciting, accountants and tax professionals understand the health and decline of business in a more detailed way than most. What they are seeing is nothing short of staggering and devastating. They are seeing the new reality: millions upon millions unemployed, businesses shutting their doors, infrastructure built and maintained by relationships, contracts, steady income, and consumer buying, etc has collapsed. It's gone. Such things cannot just start right back up as they did before. The destruction has already been done; we just haven't seen the fallout yet. Some businesses will be able to salvage and repair some things. But it is important to understand that the wreck has already happened, and that it is just more pileup the longer these 'stay-at-home' orders are in place.

One of the things that will likely maintain this course for a period of time is public sentiment. There has been a significant deterioration of people's thinking that has accompanied believing in this fake pandemic. There is an open hostility toward economic activity, which has been fostered for the last number of years with utopian (or it should really be termed 'dystopian') socialism. And now what accountants are seeing is that the many, many engines of the economy (small business owners) are giving up. While business owners are usually pretty good at a few things, it is a small percentage who know how to pivot and change what they've always done to adjust to changing times. It's a pretty human characteristic. The hostility from the mob combined with hopelessness of once creative entrepreneurs is a very bad mix. Once the leaders of communities lose hope, it could be only a matter of time until that spreads to the masses.

While this mind virus spreads, it's important for us here to inoculate ourselves. We do not need to be victims, and we need to adjust with the times. The way we respond is of own making. Crisis also provides the opportunity for massive growth, if we address the need. And the need will likely be immense. Now is not the time to veg out, putter about, or be overcome with fear. Those are all forms of giving over your will. I don't currently see widespread fear (other than with the authoritarian types regarding the coronavirus), but we might be prepared for it coming down the pike if the economy doesn't magically jump back as so many think it will.

 

[Javi]

I feel a heaviness today as well

Yes, it's true, today I had symptoms of my old disease (sinus headache) that I hadn't had for quite some time. I had related it to yesterday's street spraying (killing coronavirus with gunshots) and the door to my case. I thought that was not good for my health (what toxic stuff are they throwing out?). But now that I think about it, it may be because of what you say. The environment is also extremely humid and rainy. Especially with many heavy low clouds.