Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

[Jones]

It pays to read the fb fact checking articles. There was a fact check notice issued for the following claiming it was false:

Russia exposes Covid-19 with Scientific Data as a Hoax, says its a Fake Pandemic

Here is the fact check article linked in the notice and in part it says:

The author's conclusion that the pandemic is fake is based on the premise that a certain proportion of the people who contract the disease must die in order for the pandemic to be real. But the definitions for pandemic and epidemic are not based on the level of mortality, rather they describe the extent of spread of a disease in relation to geography. Merriam-webster.com presents a comparison of the two words (here). On March 11, 2020, the World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a pandemic.

So basically the article supplied by the fact checkers is stating that the lockdowns and social distancing measures can be implemented for a benign nothing burger virus - it doesn't have to have the capacity to kill anyone.

The fact check article refers to a Merriam Webster dictionary entry that talks about the difference between an epidemic and a pandemic and doesn't address a viruses mortality rate anywhere in that comparison. There is an interesting part of the definition of pandemic mentioned though:

Origins of Epidemic and Pandemic

Epidemic, which may be traced to the Greek epidḗmios (“within the country, among the people, prevalent (of a disease)”), may carry broader meanings, such as “excessively prevalent,” “contagious,” or “characterized by very widespread growth or extent” (often used in a non-medical sense). Pandemic is less often encountered in a broad and non-medical sense, but does have additional senses, including “affecting the majority of people in a country or a number of countries”, “found in most parts of the world and in varied ecological conditions,” and “of or relating to common or sensual love” (in this last sense the word is usually capitalized). Pandemiccomes from the Greek pandēmos (“of all the people”), which itself is from pan- (“all, every”) and dēmos (“people”).

The bolded in the above begins to make some sense out of all the conflicting lockdown and social distancing enforcements and gives a clue to what is really under attack here. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a combination of the C's definition of love - knowledge is love is light and Michael Crichtons definition.

Weddings, funerals, visiting friends, neighbours and the elderly in nursing homes, going to church, being with sick friends or relatives in hospital, playing with your kids in the park, social gatherings for other family or cultural reasons, enjoying nature have been constrained under the threat of fine or forfeiture - or anything that unites people in a common or sensual love. Protesting BLM hasn't, the police actions haven't, the government hasn't or anything that unites people in a common conflict, or greed, power and control hasn't.

I get that the above might be somewhat black and white (no pun intended!) and pays little attention to nuances, the law of three and STO vs STS, it's just a foundation to show where thoughts were going as I read the fact check article and followed links in it.

So I've come to the conclusion that what is really under attack here is the capacity for, or the ability or drive to strive for and develop true love - and that's what STS doesn't have.

 

[PopHistorian]

Surely no one can remain asleep after reading this. It's stunning.

Over 1,000 health professionals sign a letter saying, Don't shut down protests using coronavirus concerns as an excuse | CNN

A group of health and medical colleagues has penned an open letter to express their concern that protests around the United States could be shut down under the guise of coronavirus health concerns. The letter -- which went on to draw more than 1,200 signatures -- focuses on techniques to...

www.cnn.com

Therefore, we propose the following guidance to support public health:
● Support local and state governments in upholding the right to protest and allow protesters to gather.
● Do not disband protests under the guise of maintaining public health for COVID-19 restrictions.
● Advocate that protesters not be arrested or held in confined spaces, including jails or police vans, which are some of the highest-risk areas for COVID-19 transmission.
● Oppose any use of tear gas, smoke, or other respiratory irritants, which could increase risk for COVID- 19 by making the respiratory tract more susceptible to infection, exacerbating existing inflammation, and inducing coughing.
● Demand that law enforcement officials also respect infection prevention recommendations by maintaining distance from protesters and wearing masks.
● Reject messaging that face coverings are motivated by concealment and instead celebrate face coverings as protective of the public's health in the context of COVID-19.
[... and much more ...]

 

[Niall]

Surely no one can remain asleep after reading this. It's stunning.

Over 1,000 health professionals sign a letter saying, Don't shut down protests using coronavirus concerns as an excuse | CNN

A group of health and medical colleagues has penned an open letter to express their concern that protests around the United States could be shut down under the guise of coronavirus health concerns. The letter -- which went on to draw more than 1,200 signatures -- focuses on techniques to...

www.cnn.com

Oh watch them! Watch them fall into ever deeper sleep...

 

[Iain]

Hi lain! So, you are a gamer as well? My group was using Zoom to play on-line too (a card game, "Magic the Gathering"), but I won't bother unless I have direct, physical interactions with live people. I play more for the direct social aspect than anything else.

That's interesting that you met most of your group in the lab you worked in. I've not met a single soul where I work that wants to do any of that stuff. And I've definitely encountered the same laziness re: science. Every single one of the people in my lab will insist that ALL of us get vaccinated for COVID once one becomes available.

I've even had one co-worker tell me she'd sue me for endangering her and her child's life if I don't get it (she is newly pregnant). I've tried showing her a summary of 325 medical journal abstracts that reveals the damage that vaccines can do, but it doesn't matter. She's been programmed, and that's all there is to it. That, more than anything else, has finally convinced me to give up the campaign. I am now looking at ways to extract myself from this place ASAP. Not sure I will be able to before the SHTF, but I will at least try.

You are in the UK? I wonder if the programming is stronger there than here, in some ways. Maybe that's why your group members are still reticent. But keep making overtures. And keep a stack of printed COVID articles from SOTT nearby. My stack is now 6" high! When my group met the other night, they were all against the lock down and the curfew, but they STILL had fear of the virus. So I just pointed to that stack and told them right off that if they were to read them all, they would feel as I do about this HOAX. I was quite literally wielding the weight of evidence!! But STILL they didn't want to let it go. I kept trying to tell them: "Just go through them and read the headlines!" But they reacted like I was a waiter trying to force an after-dinner mint down Mr. Creosote's gullet. "Come on, just one little headline? Just one!!"

The mainstream data trap is deadly indeed. I've tried showing people Venn diagrams that reveal the overlap between the CDC and the vaccine industry, for example, but you know what comment I got when I did that? "Well, thank GOD that people who understand vaccines are in charge at the CDC!!" No matter that many of them carried patents with them that make them a lot of money, and that they won't do vigorous studies on them to see what harm they may do - which was supposedly the mandate of the CDC to begin with. The concept of the "fox guarding the hen house" escapes them.

But as frustrating as all that has been, I'm done with the lessons. Let THEM have 'em. At this point I will only react if they try to force their crap on me - which is probably coming. But I will deal with that when it happens. I can't live worrying about it.

Good luck with your friends, and do find some outlet for creativity in lieu of them.

Yes, we've been playing weekly roleplaying games for about 15 years in this group (Dungeons & Dragons, Call of Cthulhu etc.) though a fw members have come and gone along the way.

Most of the time I run the games so it is a great creative outlet coming up with stories, worlds, characters etc. But the social aspect and friendship is even more important.

When this group got together years ago there were very few people interested in games at all. These days I see a lot of the younger people coming out of university and getting jobs at the lab playing a lot of games. This is partly good as there a re more people around to keep these social/creative hobbies going. Unfortunately most of these people seem utterly absorbed into these games (and video games). This is all they seem interested in and all their lives revolve around outside of work. I find this to be quite worrying. Some of these people are the same as those I have heard are really happy with lock down, no reason not to come out of their little world now!

The work place is becoming quite interesting. Staff who are not working from home are being moved into empty offices in order to enforce anti-social distancing. Even people sitting at desks 2 meters apart cannot sit opposite one another, it has to be diagonally for some reason! Basically the company is paranoid about the track and trace/contact tracing measures and worries that if someone tests positive, whole departments may be shut down due to self isolating. I imagine others will be seeing this at their work places pretty soon.

I do get the impression that the programming is stronger in the UK. Compared with some other countries there have been very few protests or much push back against the government policies except for a few notable individuals (Peter Hitchens the current go-to who hasn't been censored too much... yet). The government is sticking to its narrative and behind it all there is a huge undermining of any remaining democracy going on. Some recent polls have suggested that as much as a third of the population would support some for of permanent lock down... So it is not looking great...

I have certainly tried over the years to get our gaming group members to think a bit more, but with little success. They are very caught up in the mainstream narrative and some can be a bit arrogant over their 'knowledge'. A few of them know of SOTT but regard it as a 'fake new' or even cult type thing... If I ever share articles with people I tend to use the original rather than the SOTT version, it might actually gt read that way... Recently I have heard, from friends and family, the line 'well you can find evidence of anything you like on the internet'. It does not matter that I point out I have spent hour upon hour researching something and cross checking stuff and am more than willing to accept I am wrong if more information comes to light - but apparently I am not to be believed!

Being involved in the work we do (including contracts for big pharma) most of the group are quite personally invested in the narrative and the so-called-science of big pharma. A few years ago I recall a friend getting quite heated about vaccines and how they all work and don't injure people. Now, no matter your stance on vaccines there is ample mainstream evidence that some vaccines do not work and some do injure people.

I think my thoughts are much the same as yours. It is not my job to convince anyone. The information is out there for all, whether I tell them about it or not, but there is no willingness to go there. If some of this stuff is imposed on me, as it may soon be at work, I will certainly make my point and others a free to do so as well. I suspect I will remain the 'tin-foil hat' type in the eyes of most though...

 

[lilies]

In Hungary [our country's name], our small city of 17.000 souls, ~90 miles west from the Ukrainian border:

+ this Wednesday the last remaining Bastion of LockDown fell in our city: the flea-market opened. Looking back, before the Scamdemic, its as if someone made a documentary about our flea-market and completely cut out and thrown away the part of the film, where our flea-market was locked down for months with Mask-Hysteria, and then as if the makers glued the film back together beginning from this Wednesday and continued rolling.. In my mind expected a devastated market [following the example how jobs were lost in the US] with a handful of miserable merchants peddling their cheap wares...

INSTEAD the place was a blooming surprise! My favorite merchant even asked, how about a large shipment of my favorite product *again next week*? I had to defend, since I consume said product, the large batch I just brought from him will last at least fortnight! :) Its as if the lockdown never happened. The merchants were fully stocked, the entire flea-market was booming!

+ Mangalica bacon was available in quantity at the fully stocked, big butchers shop, which was brimming with all sorts of meat. BTW: This butcher shop just opened its SECOND BIG store like a mile away near a hub: our bus station.

+ As a reminder: all of us at the SPAR Supermarket have to wear stupid masks now - at the only place - , perfect to make us remember the Global Mental Sickness & Hysteria that gripped our world in the Spring.

So Normal Life, as I knew it before the Scamdemic is now back. We can now analyze the big lies the PtB tried to spread couple months ago. I guess, in March, when I got that flash image from the future = '2 months in Linear-Time Skip-Forward', when things will turn back normal: it was from 'the future of this week', from this Wednesday. An image of "Life-Returned-To-Normal" - as it is now - is only valid to my immediate life-environment in our city. Because its 'Personally Perceived' every week, so there was emotional involvement, to want it to return to normal, thus the question was created [in me in distress then] and the reaction, the answer from the future in form of an image flash:
Mar 15, 2020:

.. I think this stress and pressure is soon to end, so we can breath a sigh of relief and laugh about what is happening now. As an added boon, the naked Emperor without clothes is going to be revealed: via the machinations of responsible parties becoming transparent, I think. Then everybody will have the chance to get wiser by memorizing the Modus Operandi of current total fallacy created by the Bilderbergs & Crown Family ruling elite.

 

[lilies]

.. and Tesco: of course you have to wear Scamdemic Masks in Nazi Tesco, following the dictates of the Eurocrat Gestapo Regime.

 

[thorbiorn]

WHOA! This is certainly worth 20 minutes of your time. This woman has been through the official Contact Tracing training course and is certified in California, US. She explains how it works and walks us through the fine print and the laws! Very scary and that a bill to be voted regarding Contract Tracing is numbered 6666 is just too weird. Check it out.

[The above was referring to a Youtube: A Women Gets Her Contact Tracer Certificates and Tells All published by Vladislav Sobolev May 27, 2020]

In Denmark there has been debate and opposition to contact tracing apps. There are some links below from earlier in the Covid-19 season. Eventually it has not yet been made mandatory - although the Government wanted and has tried to push it through both in the beginning, (a proposal for a mandatory contact tracing) and later by stealth (a proposal from the Ministry of Health to have access to all secret phone numbers so that one could have contact tracing apps). One should not be surprised if they will try to push it through later. Just a few links to articles in English that tell a part of the story:

How two digital solutions are helping Denmark lift its COVID-19 lockdown

The Danish Government is launching two new digital solutions to drive the safe and controlled reopening of Denmark, after the government mandated lockdown due to COVID-19.

www.med-technews.com

Danish Government launches COVIDmeter tracking service as lockdown restrictions are lifted

They will also launch a COVID-19 contact-tracing app to alert users of prolonged social proximity.

www.mobihealthnews.com

Why COVID-19 contact tracing apps are causing deep division in Europe

Who owns the information collected by them? Do people trust their government and health service more than Apple and Google?

newseu.cgtn.com

Yesterday, there was an event or demonstration in Copenhagen at the city hall against the Covid-19 measures. Actually, it was much more like an information sharing event. By the time I arrived, it looked like one organizer and one helper who handed out information flyers about the Corona virus and small stickers. He had nothing to do. I asked him how many had come. He said a few hundreds, but mind you many of those were probably just people who passed by. The stickers look almost like the image below, except that the lower text has been turned 180 degrees to make it more readable. It reads in the middle: "Corona? Yes thank you" Above: "Covid-19 is not dangerous" and below: "We need the infection for herd immunity"

The flyer with information was basically a summary of a longer explanation translated into several languages, English, Danish, French, German, Swedish, Italian, Spanish and Portugese, published in early May and available from Corona Whistle-Blower – Scientific information about Corona virus COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) from independent experts; the most important finding is that the mortality rate is 0.01%, and not 3.4% as the World Health Organization (WHO) says.
The front page picture was:

Nicely done, I think and focused on educating people. From the interest and the likes on FB one might conclude that either more publicity is needed, or few really care, or a bit of both. As it was Constitution Day, it was a day off for many.

Robert Hintze who went to this event wrote a post and asked questions that could be asked in a few other countries too:

"Keep in mind that all politicians in a few hours, without the slightest hesitation and without respect for what has historically preceded the creation of Denmark's Constitution, let fear, corruption, evil and tyranny weigh more than the considerations of the Constitution, freedom, privacy, democracy and man.

How is it that none of our elected politicians represented the opposite view?

We are talking about people who in the day-to-day pretend to furiously disagree on issues far less contrast filled and constitutionally rooted than these issues. "
[..]
"The current epidemic law today means that the Minister of Health can take the following steps:

# Order presumed infected to be examined, hospitalized, treated or isolated by coercion.

# Get the police to execute the injunctions.

# Prohibit assemblies larger than two people.

# Ask the police to use the necessary force.

# Prohibit access to public institutions.

# Barring areas.

# Establish rules for people living in the areas.

# Initiate forced vaccination of certain risk groups.

# Order an autopsy.

# Prohibit the use of public transport.

# Close businesses where the public has access.

# Prohibit access to nursing homes, hospitals and residential services.

# Derogate from other legislation to ensure hospital capacity - e.g. All patient rights.

# Establish rules to ensure the supply of goods - e.g. Require Danish manufacturers to make protective equipment.

# Determine whether people on planes or ferries are allowed to land.

# Invite anyone who comes to the country to be examined and coerced.

# Close daycare, schools, education and other institutions.

# Expropriate Private Property!

# Establish rules for the police to impose a stay ban on a particular location.

Source: The emergency laws L133 and L158 and Karnov "

When reading such a list, I recalled a cover I had encountered recently where Erik Christensen wrote about Johannes Hohlenberg, a Danish painter, philosopher and economic thinker: "Because one attaches all sovereignty of society to the state, one was in Hohlenberg's view, heading for a totalitarian democracy." Only problem is that Hohlenberg lived in the 1930s.

 

[loreta]

Surely no one can remain asleep after reading this. It's stunning.

Over 1,000 health professionals sign a letter saying, Don't shut down protests using coronavirus concerns as an excuse | CNN

A group of health and medical colleagues has penned an open letter to express their concern that protests around the United States could be shut down under the guise of coronavirus health concerns. The letter -- which went on to draw more than 1,200 signatures -- focuses on techniques to...

www.cnn.com

This is incredible. I am so flabbergasted everyday, I feel like entering a space with many layers, like an onion, and wow, the show is incredible. and free! And we are all in a spiral of surprises.

I saw the picture with cops kneeling. What the f.... is this! So now they are gentle? To what or whom are they kneeling? Is this real? Or are we seeing a movie stage? Because really! a movie B, with idiots?

 

[genero81]

Because really! a movie B, with idiots?

We're in the time that Gurdjieff says about; "people begin to lose their reason." The time when large quantities of knowledge are released but the majority of people do not want it. It's up to us to gather that which they reject and increase it. To those that have, more will be given. To those who have not, even what little they have will be taken away.

Seeing it all play out is a trip! I'm not feeling any ecstasy yet, however.

 

[loreta]

[The above was referring to a Youtube: A Women Gets Her Contact Tracer Certificates and Tells All published by Vladislav Sobolev May 27, 2020]

In Denmark there has been debate and opposition to contact tracing apps. There are some links below from earlier in the Covid-19 season. Eventually it has not yet been made mandatory - although the Government wanted and has tried to push it through both in the beginning, (a proposal for a mandatory contact tracing) and later by stealth (a proposal from the Ministry of Health to have access to all secret phone numbers so that one could have contact tracing apps). One should not be surprised if they will try to push it through later. Just a few links to articles in English that tell a part of the story:

How two digital solutions are helping Denmark lift its COVID-19 lockdown

The Danish Government is launching two new digital solutions to drive the safe and controlled reopening of Denmark, after the government mandated lockdown due to COVID-19.

www.med-technews.com

Danish Government launches COVIDmeter tracking service as lockdown restrictions are lifted

They will also launch a COVID-19 contact-tracing app to alert users of prolonged social proximity.

www.mobihealthnews.com

Why COVID-19 contact tracing apps are causing deep division in Europe

Who owns the information collected by them? Do people trust their government and health service more than Apple and Google?

newseu.cgtn.com

Yesterday, there was an event or demonstration in Copenhagen at the city hall against the Covid-19 measures. Actually, it was much more like an information sharing event. By the time I arrived, it looked like one organizer and one helper who handed out information flyers about the Corona virus and small stickers. He had nothing to do. I asked him how many had come. He said a few hundreds, but mind you many of those were probably just people who passed by. The stickers look almost like the image below, except that the lower text has been turned 180 degrees to make it more readable. It reads in the middle: "Corona? Yes thank you" Above: "Covid-19 is not dangerous" and below: "We need the infection for herd immunity"
View attachment 36731
The flyer with information was basically a summary of a longer explanation translated into several languages, English, Danish, French, German, Swedish, Italian, Spanish and Portugese, published in early May and available from Corona Whistle-Blower – Scientific information about Corona virus COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) from independent experts; the most important finding is that the mortality rate is 0.01%, and not 3.4% as the World Health Organization (WHO) says.
The front page picture was:
View attachment 36732
Nicely done, I think and focused on educating people. From the interest and the likes on FB one might conclude that either more publicity is needed, or few really care, or a bit of both. As it was Constitution Day, it was a day off for many.

Robert Hintze who went to this event wrote a post and asked questions that could be asked in a few other countries too:
When reading such a list, I recalled a cover I had encountered recently where Erik Christensen wrote about Johannes Hohlenberg, a Danish painter, philosopher and economic thinker: "Because one attaches all sovereignty of society to the state, one was in Hohlenberg's view, heading for a totalitarian democracy." Only problem is that Hohlenberg lived in the 1930s.

Thank you Thor. I am astounded. You are right, this is very scary. It is so scary that maybe tonight I will not be able to sleep. It is a nightmare. Something that Kafka will not be able to imagine, or maybe yes. Maybe we should read again Kafka...

 

[Voyageur]

There is a fellow in BC, Tony Mitra, who decided it was high time to write a letter to the political ministers (MLA'S) in the province. Tony has been a champion shedding light on the toxic mess of food (see here in a podcast with Dr. Stephanie Seneff ), and he has also worked with Dr. Shiv Chopra when he was alive and Dr. Thierry Vrain. There was an article of his on SOTT regarding Bayer/Monsanto's glyphosate that is moving to glufosinate.

Bayer Acquisition: Exit glyphosate, enter glufosinate?

Anyway, his letter is not about these things, it was about Covid19 and what the leaders have done on behalf of others (he does not hold back):

Covid19 and the murder of British Columbia
Posted on June 1, 2020

I sent a letter or warning to all 88 members of the British Columbia legislative assembly. Here is a copy of the letter, and a video read out of another.

To: John Horgan, NDP, Premier@gov.bc.ca

Date: Thursday, May 28, 2020

Subject: About assassination of BC economy, way of life and freedom

Assembly member & Premier John Horgan,

I have written several times to you and others of the BC assembly. Most of the assembly members do not even bother to read messages from Citizens or residents of the province. Further, the assembly has effectively disassembled itself, drawing fat wages while hibernating at home, imitating Nero while British Columbia burns into cinder.

Public is hypnotised by fear as the government, in collusion with an extremely biased media and overbearing influence of big Pharma and global corporations feed the flame of fear against a bogus virus that is no different from seasonal flu. The media has stopped even pretending to present all sides of any issue – and has become the mouthpiece for unelected globalist corporations pushing for medical totalitarianism. The fault of the destruction of free speech and freedom of expression lies at the feet of the do-nothing Government of BC, which has knowingly encouraged this state of affairs for over a generation.

Besides, the very concept of science and scientific research has been turned on its head. Instead of science being public funded, public owned and geared towards public good – it has been converted to be industry funded, industry owned and industry controlled. Industry is not interested in funding or supporting anybody that wishes to discover problems with its products. Scientists that talk against the wisdom of forcing unnecessary vaccines on an unwilling population – are being muzzled, defunded, and turned into academic pariah. Doctors that warn against it have their license to practice revoked. Science has consequently lost its neutrality, objectivity and honesty. It is more like voodoo and less like science at this stage. And all this has happened because the Government has allowed this travesty to take place.

You have helped destroy free speech, subvert science and now are engaged in destruction of British Columbia, to turn it into an outlying protectorate of BILLGATISTAN.

There seems to be no point any more in asking you to look into this or that aspect of the state of affairs. You have become incapable of responding to freedom loving British Columbian’s aspirations. Wise folks are still clinging onto fast disappearing branches of freedom in the swirling waters of the tsunami of a fake pandemic designed to engineer a planned Coup d’état to topple democracy, by a bunch of mediocre and unethical politicians wanting to turn into two bit tinhorn dictators. The people are given almost no option but to warn you.

So be warned.

This is a public letter and will be shared, and also be read aloud in Vancouver and wherever else I shall be protesting your effort to subvert British Columbia’s freedom.

Tony Mitra
(Address & contact)

video

So far, only 2 of 88 MLS have written him back.

 

[PopHistorian]

This is hot off the presses. Letter from Archbishop Vigano to Trump, dated June 7. He calls out the Deep State as engineers of the COVID-19 crisis and of the current street chaos in the USA. He seems to be offering perspective rather than proof in this letter, but interesting nonetheless, IMO.

Vigano has come up on this forum before, see here: Search results for query: vigano

Archbishop Viganò’s powerful letter to President Trump: Eternal struggle between good and evil playing out right now - LifeSite

Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò warns the president that the current crises over the coronavirus pandemic and the George Floyd riots are a part of the eternal spiritual struggle between the forces of good and evil.

www.lifesitenews.com

It begins with a description of the two sides in opposition.

These two sides, which have a Biblical nature, follow the clear separation between the offspring of the Woman and the offspring of the Serpent. On the one hand there are those who, although they have a thousand defects and weaknesses, are motivated by the desire to do good, to be honest, to raise a family, to engage in work, to give prosperity to their homeland, to help the needy, and, in obedience to the Law of God, to merit the Kingdom of Heaven. On the other hand, there are those who serve themselves, who do not hold any moral principles, who want to demolish the family and the nation, exploit workers to make themselves unduly wealthy, foment internal divisions and wars, and accumulate power and money: for them the fallacious illusion of temporal well-being will one day – if they do not repent – yield to the terrible fate that awaits them, far from God, in eternal damnation.

 

[PopHistorian]

Oh watch them! Watch them fall into ever deeper sleep...

I posted that CNN link to the letter on FB and the reactions seem to validate your point, Niall. No written comments, just reactions. The known-to-be-sleeping responders apparently taking from it only that which reinforced their perspective on Covid-19 and protest. Personally I thought the letter was so ridiculous that it served as its own red pill, but I seem to have been quite wrong.

 

[Persej]

Was coronavirus here earlier than we thought?

My experience of testing positive for coronavirus antibodies clearly struck a nerve. Two weeks ago I wrote that I'd had no recent symptoms but dismissed a bout of pneumonia in January because it was weeks before the first confirmed cases of Covid-19 in the UK.

Many of you responded with your own experiences of having Covid-like symptoms - some as far back as November - and urged me to investigate further.

But is it possible to prove when coronavirus first struck in the UK, and does it matter?

First, a reminder of the timeline.

China reported a cluster of cases on 31 December 2019, but later told the WHO that the earliest symptoms from these patients dated back to 8 December.

But according to unreleased government data obtained by the South China Morning Post (which, I should stress, has not been seen by the BBC) the first case in Wuhan could have been on 17 November, with several further cases that month.

No individual has yet been identified as "patient zero", the first person to get infected with the new virus.

The first confirmed cases in the UK were identified on 31 January, when two Chinese nationals tested positive in York.

They caught the virus abroad. The first confirmed case of transmission inside the UK was registered in Surrey on 28 February.

But plenty of people are doubting the official timeline.

The author Catherine Mayer believes it's possible her late husband Andy Gill - guitarist and co-founder of Gang of Four - may have been one of the earliest to be struck down by Covid-19.

She spoke movingly about his death on the Coronavirus Newscast last month.

Andy returned from a tour in China on 23 November 2019 and fell ill in December with many symptoms of Covid-19. He died in St Thomas's hospital on 1 February. Doctors did consider whether it might be this new virus they were hearing about, but the timelines didn't seem plausible.

Then a story broke that suggested coronavirus had already been in Europe in December. A hospital near Paris retested old samples from a pneumonia patient which tested positive for coronavirus.

Catherine wrote to Andy's specialist, who agreed it might have been coronavirus - but how to prove it? She began doing her own detective work and discovered that his tour manager had fallen seriously ill with a respiratory infection too. And, sadly, Catherine's stepfather also died, on 22 December. "It raises all sorts of questions for me on a personal level," she says.

"The key question is, could this have been the coronavirus Covid-19?" asks Prof Tom Solomon, director of the UK Emerging Infections Research Unit at the University of Liverpool. "I think the simple answer is yes, it could have been. We now know the virus was around longer - new viruses are always around before you spot them."

And many of you have been doing your own investigations. Debra Scott from Blackpool thinks she caught the virus in late November at her husband's school reunion, where there was "lots of hugging and handshaking".

Her symptoms included a "cough that could kill a horse" and lasted for weeks. "I kept thinking I was getting better then - boom - it floored me again and again," she says.

She was so convinced it was Covid that she sent a blood sample off to a lab for an antibody test, which came back positive. She hopes it will give her some immunity, because she's diabetic. "Before I had the test I was panicking, I didn't want to end up on a ventilator," says Debra.

Tricia Camm from Whitby was ill at the end of January, while on holiday in the Scottish lochs. She now thinks it was coronavirus because she lost her sense of taste and kept sending meals back in restaurants. "I was so disappointed, I love the food there," she says.

But others are more sceptical. David Brown, a retired molecular virologist worked on coronaviruses for 20 years.

His wife got pneumonia over Christmas, with an appalling cough and loss of taste and smell.

He thinks she and many others probably had another coronavirus, OC43, which can also cause respiratory illnesses.

"OC43 can be really severe. It can cause recurring infections in your lifetime like other coronaviruses. There's no surveillance of it, and it's impossible to go back and check," he says.

Fergus Walsh: The mystery of early 'Covid' cases

Could Covid-19 have been here earlier than we thought? The BBC’s medical correspondent investigates.

www.bbc.com

So what do we know so far?

Number one: you cannot stop this virus, not with lockdown, not with masks, not with tests.
Number two: it is not as fast as it was claimed. The number of daily cases in the world is still on the rise.

 

[trytofly]

One of the things that stood out to me is that health care workers are also more at risk. This may indicate that their immune systems are not as robust as the rest of the population - or they do something different from the rest of the population.

Indeed, it seems to me that health care workers receive more compulsory vaccines than the rest of the population. This is at least the case in France. Which further weakens their immune systems.