Creating a New World

combsbt said:
Seems like that process involves a risk of violating a poor child's free will doesn't it? I'm left to wonder if they were always chosen from a young age due to some recognizable (by the elders) potential? If so, then first, what is that potential and how to recognize it? And second, just because you are born with the potential you are made to suffer for the sake of others? It is hard to believe that this process is STO, although the specific role of the shaman may seem selfless.

Or maybe they are left with the option of not becoming a shaman, as Castanada was able to 'opt out' of his training, and did a couple times. Still seems as if a young child wouldn't be able to make this decision, and may end up suffering against his/her will.

My impression is that it is not at all a violation of the child's free will, as the process requires the shaman candidate at some point to freely choose his role with all his will. It is that very process which allows the initiation which makes the shaman. The suffering is part of what is necessary to be in the role. I have never gotten the impression that it limits the shaman in some way. For all we know it helps the shaman further fuse his connection with his higher centers. I do not equate suffering with something 'bad' in this context. It may be a source of energy for the shaman. Reference the 'Bringer's of the Dawn' excerpts recently posted regarding emotional energy.
 
Hmm...I think entertainment can be healing too... laughter is medicine! I'm not sure about other emotional roller coasters...maybe just a stepping stone to understainding our own emotional hang ups. Laura, thank you for speaking about your experience with hypnotherapy allowing a higher divine self enter and work through you. (I still don't know how to paste a quote on this thing...sorry) I've had 2 years of training with a shamanic practitioner, and some other experiences in South America with a few traditional shamans. I've stopped practicing the core practices of shamanism, being unsure of what I may be connecting with at times, but the insights, the intuitions, and the understanding of the need for spiritual healing is ever present in my daily work. However exactly what you spoke of happens to me daily in my acupuncture practice. I have been trying to reconcile my draw toward shamanism with my certainty that journeying to "other worlds" isn't something I am spiritually prepared to do. There are many levels to this kind of work, and what you spoke of seems to come out naturally and easily for me during my interactions with my clients. When it does happen, it has obvious positive results on my clients...a shift in perspective, more clarity, or even spontaneous physical healing.

I am intrigued by this thread. The concept of creating a new world makes us think about what is present for us that we would prefer to do without (psychopathy and all that follows), and what is missing from our current experience. I've found that in my practice, I am performing the role of a shaman... a very watered down version, that is. My clients mostly don't know what a shaman is, or perhaps fear that idea as something related to pagan satanic voodoo sorts of things, or just plain "woo woo" stuff. But they need it...they are looking for healing on a spiritual level.

As I look around me, I'm surrounded by spiritual sickness... its seems rather hopeless. The mass pseudo-culture created by men behind the curtain that keeps people distracted, disconnected, isolated, misinformed, and most pointedly focused on instant self-gratification and ego inflation has created a mass spiritual illness, or maybe a spiritual void. I don't know that a shaman could do much for this kind of illness. A shaman traditionally functioned inside of a closely-knit community. The community itself was a psychological safety net creating security without (so much) egocentricity, and the shamans held it together and maintained the health of the community and individuals. It is my opinion that people of a shamanic nature are born with gifts....hearing and seeing energies, spirits, and information that other cannot ordinarily see. I also believe that as a person develops spiritually, these skills can also be learned, developed, and honed (my personal experience). Just as a person can be born with brilliant mathematical skills or learn them, it could be she same with intuitive and psychic skills.

It would be interesting to think about a conscious group of people forming a community with information that native tribal peoples would not have had access to due to their long term disconnection with knowing ancestors, primitive living conditions, and cultural limitations. What would be the energetic result? For example, if 500 of the most "awakened" STO-oriented people on the planet formed a community...I imagine that their collective presence would instigate a more rapid evolution for all involved. Any of those with shamanic abilities would likely find their skills improving and expanding. In creating a new world scenario, I guess shamanism could be a core element, but we would almost have to reinvent it in light of modern information and spiritual knowledge. I believe the C's said that shamanic practices were influenced by 4DSTS, and that ultimately it was a limiting practice. The goal of reinventing this kind of spiritual medicine would be to explore its possibilities for liberating humanity from ongoing enslavement. If entire communities were practicing this kind of awareness, could the collective energy of the group accelerate the path to an STO transition? It seems like just a few small isolated individuals or groups have attempted this in the past that we know of(I'm thinking about Castaneda having to go to the desert an learn from an isolated sorcerer). I suppose that in a "New World" we could never assume that it was in everyone's best interest to pursue a transition to STO, however, we could certainly create the space for those who wished to do so. In a sense, I suppose that is what we are up to here. OK, time for some EE. Grateful for life....

Tree
 
thevenusian said:
combsbt said:
Seems like that process involves a risk of violating a poor child's free will doesn't it? I'm left to wonder if they were always chosen from a young age due to some recognizable (by the elders) potential? If so, then first, what is that potential and how to recognize it? And second, just because you are born with the potential you are made to suffer for the sake of others? It is hard to believe that this process is STO, although the specific role of the shaman may seem selfless.

Or maybe they are left with the option of not becoming a shaman, as Castanada was able to 'opt out' of his training, and did a couple times. Still seems as if a young child wouldn't be able to make this decision, and may end up suffering against his/her will.

My impression is that it is not at all a violation of the child's free will, as the process requires the shaman candidate at some point to freely choose his role with all his will. It is that very process which allows the initiation which makes the shaman. The suffering is part of what is necessary to be in the role. I have never gotten the impression that it limits the shaman in some way. For all we know it helps the shaman further fuse his connection with his higher centers. I do not equate suffering with something 'bad' in this context. It may be a source of energy for the shaman. Reference the 'Bringer's of the Dawn' excerpts recently posted regarding emotional energy.
Well, when it comes to children the notion of "free will" is a bit tricky. I violate my kids free will every day, as they are not allowed to do anything they want, such as watch TV or play video games all day (and they would if not given any restrictions).

As for shamans specifically, I have a friend who is one, and from what he has described, yes, he was "taken" as a child and sent to shaman training to learn how to use his natural abilities. Now, as an adult, he does refer to it, the ability of "being able to move the assemblage point" as Castaneda calls it, a "curse", as he always has to be on his toes against "the other side", cannot have a family because of the implications it would have for them, and so on. But at the same time, if he hadn't been given this training, he would most likely have been a confused kid, with abilities he couldn't control or understand, and might be in an even worse position. So giving him the training at least gave him a way to handle it. It's all about context and predictable consequences, as usual.

Btw, I lent him the Castaneda books, and after reading them he confirms that the description in there of "the unseen" is pretty much accurate. He also said that dark entities do indeed feed on fear. That is their main food, as the C's and others have said as well.

I'll ask him and see if he can explain his situation in his own words.
 
combsbt said:
Seems like that process involves a risk of violating a poor child's free will doesn't it? I'm left to wonder if they were always chosen from a young age due to some recognizable (by the elders) potential? If so, then first, what is that potential and how to recognize it? And second, just because you are born with the potential you are made to suffer for the sake of others? It is hard to believe that this process is STO, although the specific role of the shaman may seem selfless.

Or maybe they are left with the option of not becoming a shaman, as Castanada was able to 'opt out' of his training, and did a couple times. Still seems as if a young child wouldn't be able to make this decision, and may end up suffering against his/her will.

I am wondering from other posts, are we talking about the same shamanism practices here? It seems there is a confusion on the term, if I am not mistaken Laura was talking about Altain Shamans as a more pure source. Maybe native Americans take children, but if you read Laura's description of a shaman in the Wave series, it has nothing to do with age, it is the time when the call comes. And the call isn't decided by some "wise men".

Getting back to the infirmities, nervous disorders, illness of crisis and so forth that are the "signs of election," it is also noted that, sometimes an accident, a fall, a blow on the head, or being hit by lightning are the signs from the environment that the shaman has been elected. But, being "called" is not the same as being "chosen," or, more precisely, choosing. "Many are called; few choose to respond."

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave12e1.htm

Maybe you are talking about a separate tradition or corruption in the system. From Anatolian legends I know of "abdal"(slave of Truth) or "aşık"(lover of Truth) which are equivalent of shaman/bards the call varies according to each individual. If we assume shamanism is mixed with Sufism to some extent(there are some interesting correlations and Laura mentions certain concepts in the chapter about "Poles of the World"), Yunus Emre(a farmer) received the call after he was twenty, Pir Sultan Abdal(a shepherd) on the other hand, drank the sacred wine from the ascended ones when he was seven according to the legends. Some people who served as clerics for Orthodox Islam later become the most famous bards and great Sufis.

There are many variations according to the path one chooses so I doubt that there will be a question of forcing children to choose a life they don't want to. At least, this is my current understanding.

Just my two cents, fwiw.
 
"Actors become things/characters that are not real"

Anart, I agree that actors are in the business of make-believe, but in order to be successful in pretending, they must access emotions that are real. When that emotion comes across the stage and hits the audience…as something real…then it works to trigger an empathic response in the watcher. I know that what got transpired is illusion, but people went to the theatre in ancient Greece to not only be entertained, but to learn. The learning was usually tied to an emotional event that would en masse produce a catharsis. So not only was the catharsis a big wonderful emotional release (I think of the Gaelic custom of keening at someone’s death), but it could also deepen knowledge…to a thousand people in a huge theatre, all at the same time.

Learning researchers are finding this technique to be useful today. Take a deep emotion and tie some learning to it, put it online, and you’ve reached a very large audience.

The C’s are asking Laura to do this same thing with her videos. They are also asking us to eventually dance. I find it fascinating that we are discussing the process. Your comments are stimulating me to dig deeper into a possible connection for human beings to the infinite.

I won’t take up space on it right now, but psychopaths certainly know how to manipulate the lower emotional center to get what they want. Would we call them actors/shamans?

I'm also excited to respond to Laura's post, but work is calling...why does the mundane always have to interfere with "real reality"?!!
 
I am reading a collection of short stories by Ursula Le Guin now, in which she explores how different would a structure of society be if people's relationships, including gender-based, were different. One story especially impressed me, it was called "Solitude" and portrays a society which is not necessarily the most harmonious, but which recognizes of the danger of power of one person over another. They call all manifestations of this power "magic" and place it at the root of everything that was wrong before the catastrophe overtook the world of their ancestors. This may be overly simplistic, but seems relevant.
 
Laura said:
When the session was finished, this other therapist said to me: "Wow, I could almost see you wearing the Shaman's mask and shaking rattles and beating drums ..." her point being that my interaction with the client were similar to that process. And she was right. Whenever I did hypnotherapy, I felt a sort of higher self descend into me, a kind of Divine Grace, that gave me super sharp senses so that I could see the elements behind the troubles of the client and know how best to direct their attention. My voice changes, my entire persona BECOMES something more than I am when I'm just wife and mother and friend. The same thing happens when I am teaching... I may start out as just myself, but something "descends onto me" and contact is made with that creative center, and I find myself seeing and hearing on more than one level, walking between two worlds, and looking for ways to convey that to others in a way that most effective. So, indeed, it becomes a sort of Divine Drama - I am, at one and the same time, myself and myself in the future.

So, in a way, that is indeed like the cleaning woman who created the illusion of Carmen. The main difference is that one is done for entertainment, the other is a conveying of spiritual verities. But the dynamics of the process are quite similar.

Having some time to reflect on the responses of Anart and Laura to my thoughts on actors and shamans, I'm beginning to form a picture.

[quote author=Anart ]
What a shaman does, at the core, is connect to the Real.
[/quote]

I think you have a very valid point, Anart. The actor’s imagination seems to cycle him back into investing in his emotional ‘bank’ to portray illusion. A shaman seems to go to his emotional bank, and instead of a withdrawl, he tunnels into the vault, through its floor, finds his treasure, returns with it and shares it with his community...OK, a bit "dramatic", but the image makes a point (?)!

So I'm beginning to think that we've got 3 classifications here that are using the emotional center:
1) Actors who may use the emotional center as a feedback loop or as a method to get to deeper truths (I don't want to exclude that possibility, because as an actor, I'd like to try it someday.)
2) Shamans who use the emotional center to get to connect with higher centers to bring back knowledge and healing.
3) People like us who are working on their emotional centers to get to their higher centers to connect with 'us in the future', who will not only bring back knowledge and healing, but also build community possibly in a way similar to our Paleo-Christian ancestors...dancing the spiral dance, singing the tonal rill, moving stones, transporting without machines, all those things that the C's talk about to get us all enthused about our breathing exercises and freeing those emotions.
 
Something missing in this discussion about community and communication is the concept of
synergy. (It was mentioned once).
This forum community is practising communication and thereby learning from each other.
Sometimes in a thread one can notice synergy happening.
But what is synergy? I am sure there are volumes written about it. But Laura encourages us
to be practical. How can we practise synergy?
Maybe we can discover this together.
Common intent is part of it. I have experienced it twice in my life, both times in an artistic setting,
one involving making music together, another time performing experimental theater.
I suspect it may also have something to do with the kind of people coming together
but I have been unable to put this into words; yet the result is astonishing.
 
I've not been able to contribute to this thread 'till now, but have read everyone's posts with much interest. I'd like to synopsise what we've learned so far.

Firstly, the challenges. There is a need to:
- fulfill everyone's basic and immediate living requirements
- build a working community which operates effectively, in which there is trust, motivation, social cohesion, and effective leadership and communication
- provide an environment in which everyone is able to function, to find their 'place in the world', to have something to contribute, regardless of differing abilities and skills; in which people can maximise their creative potential, find fulfillment, and grow healthily, so as to be able to devise their own creative solutions for challenges yet to come.
- defend against pathological behaviour, as well as other internal and external threats to existence. (this is the BIG one!)
- develop and maintain (and apply) core knowledge about life, and to defend this core knowledge from degradation / corruption so that it can be sustained for use by future generations.

There is a principle at play, 'leverage', in which a small change, by a small group of people can make wide-ranging and long lasting changes. This requires that those pulling the 'lever' are doing so in a way which maximises the effect.

It seems that the idea of an 'extended family' group is a very powerful thing which has the potential for all this and more. As seen with Skara Brae and other examples, a group of, say, 200 people is pretty much a maximum optimal size (up to maybe 300) which, if it exists in the mode of a large 'extended familiy' can be healthily sustained for many generations.

It is large enough that economies of scale come into play, that resources can be stockpiled for the lean times, and that a sufficiently wide range of skills and abilities are available to the group, and yet no so large that it causes the problems of super-large scale community with a tendecy towards heirarchical control, and a more anonymous structure which would be far more vulnerable to pathological corruption.

'Networked living' as an extended family, seems to be what Laura has been developing the principles of for some time now, and also in some sense, seems to be what we have the tentative beginnings of here on the forum - we already have many of the answers to this question, we just need to pay attention and realise it.

Let's see what this solution, of 'extended family' living, brings:

It provides a living environment in which there are roles for everyone, which naturally develop according to each individual. We can imagine in a large group this could provide roles for the old, the young, the infirm, and those with lesser skills. Because everyone is able to put their energy into the activities that come naturally to them, this leads to personal fulfilment ("I enjoy and am good at what I do"), motivation ("I am doing it for the good of the family, my family, and to further the family's goals which I share"), high productivity ("I am able to confer with the very best people whom I trust and respect, empowered to make the right choices, as I see them, unrestricted, to find creative solutions, and to excel in my field").

It provides a fertile ground for strong interpersonal relationships - with people working together in a natural way, to overcome shared challenges, and towards shared goals - it epitomises the "strength of the network". Social cohesion can also be strengthened via group activities such as music / dancing, and regular meetings "round the campfire" so to speak. In this way, common social aims/goals and direction can be built up, and there can be more 'colinearity' within the family.

It lends itself to more effective psychological cleansing, and also dealing immediately with pathological behaviour, because it operates in an environment of free communication and sharing, and pathology has nowhere to hide.

'Family led' priorities means there is no need for monetary or other systems of hoarding - since when did a 'family' need money in order to share between themselves effectively?! In a family, distribution of resources is on a 'needs' basis.

Because it operates in a 'transparent' environment where everyone knows what everyone else is doing, not only is there 'no place to hide' for pathology, but on the flip side, there is generated a large amount of community trust, and also a naturally developing system of 'meritocracy' where there can be leadership by those who become more respected because they have consistently demonstrated skill, wisdom, courage, self-sacrifice, love towards their family. Those strongest individuals will be readily apparent, and will become the respected 'elders' to whom others will go for leadership, advice, guidance, and maybe also resolution of conflict.

Education of children can happen in a much more natural way, perhaps by the older generation, passing down not only academic (eg maths/language) type skills, but also social / spiritual truths, and the right people are available to provide apprenticeship training of practical skills appropriate to the individual. Children become 'children of the group', and so are not (as at present) artificially isolated from the adult world, but instead introduced to it in appropriate stages. this is where the concept of 'leverage' really comes into play because, to quote a corny cliche, "children are our future".

There are two core issues that require some careful thought, and perhaps some tough decisions.
1. What to do about psychopaths?
2. What to do about protecting / sustaining the core system of knowledge and information which sustains the family (not least, information ABOUT ponerology and psychopaths, but also wider knowledge of life and the universe)?

Lets deal with the second question first. It seems that not everyone is able to handle the same level of knowledge, many are only concerned with implementing the outer 'structure' of rules and values, whilst others are 'seekers' who are commited to uncovering the deeper meanings of life on a personal level. It is worth reading the article (published on SOTT) on Moral Exoskeleton vs Moral Endoskeleton to do with this. So there will naturally need to be an inner circle of learned 'knowledge stewards' who's duty is to nurture and sustain this knowledge, and to protect it from external corruption. Entry into such an inner core would have to work via some kind of initiation, for those who are deemed 'ready for the task' ("When the student is ready, the teacher will appear!"). Their job will be to apply these principles to the family, to provide a stable and unambiguous structure, with demonstrably healthy set of values. Also, the role of the shaman, as discussed in the thread, seems to come in here.

I would imagine that 'dealing with psychopaths' will have to be done by this inner circle. So, not only will it have to protect itself from being infiltrated by psychopathy, but its methods would have to be somewhat secret - a difficult but essential balance. To protect the family, from within and without, to maintain a strong and healthy psychological environment - a tall order indeed and of core importance to the survival of the family. It would naturally be a duty for the 'elders' of the family, and their inner circle, those who have demonstrated themselves worthy of the task. The challenge is to do this in a way that naturally works within the family - in which everyone is there for everyone else, and does not become our dreaded 'heirarchical control system'

So perhaps we should now be looking at the practicalities, on the assumption (of responsibility) that we ARE the 200, and we need to look at how we develop these core principles in our daily lives, and working towards the future, on the principle of "build it and they will come"?

On that basis, I have questions to stimulate some more input :)
How do we correctly put these ideas into practice in our daily lives?
What is the core information - what are the various components, and how can it be structured and presented to those others of our 'family', in a properly appropriate / digestible manner?
How do we begin to disconnect from our dependence on the current pathological civilisation we live in, and to defend ourselves against it at the same time?
How do we care for and defend this family in its current 'foetal' state, from the highly dangerous and toxic external conditions, to give it a chance to grow?
and... what else have I missed? ;)
 
Thank you, Nomad, for the summary.

My thoughts about your Questions.

How do we correctly put these ideas into practice in our daily lives?

Considering the given, i.e. we are the 200, the difficulty is the fact that we are not physically in the
same location. Therefore may I suggest that forum members practise community creation in their locality.
One can practise discernment when dealing with "others". There is almost always a point of connection,
common interests in selfsufficiency, ecology, permaculture, CSA (community supported agriculture),
creation of food co-ops and in general promoting the idea of co-operation.
How do the forum members feel about creating a "skills exchange" in a closed forum; just a brief listing
of skills available to us.

What is the core information - what are the various components, and how can it be structured and presented to those others of our 'family', in a properly appropriate / digestible manner?

So far this forum has provided valuable information for mental and spiritual preparation for the coming events.
It is helpful in this context to remember: "do not anticipate", but be prepared and vigilant.
"Appropriate" and "digestible" seems a little condescending? The important thing is to remember that
choices have to be made. We could perhaps discuss hypothetical situations? Essentially this is a personal
responsibility.

How do we begin to disconnect from our dependence on the current pathological civilisation we live in, and to defend ourselves against it at the same time?

By creating local community and bypassing as much as possible the existing system.

How do we care for and defend this family in its current 'foetal' state, from the highly dangerous and toxic external conditions, to give it a chance to grow?


We are still a virtual family and I feel the forum is well defended.

Your comments are always appreciated.
 
I have been mulling over this topic for a while which I find fascinating. I did create a post was about to post and lost the information, so here goes again.

I kept thinking about the past and megalithic cultures and how they survived, even during the times of Atlantis and into Roman times and the thing that struck me is that

1) They were possibly considered primitive because they had none of the trappings of a technology driven culture and they lived in isolation.

2)They were self sufficient and didn't need to be part of that culture to survive

3)They possibly lived in remote or inacessable areas.

4)They maintain themselves as small groups.

There are examples of indigenous primitive cultures living today in South America that have had no contact with our modern culture. I am posting an article form National Geographic about and indigenous tribe in the Amazon

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0310_030310_invisible1.html

This is a quote below form the above article.

They have the ability to fish, hunt, and detect danger. They have the knowledge to develop their own healthcare systems through the discovery of medicinal plants in order to adapt to any illnesses in their surroundings. They have their own birthing techniques," he said.

Anthropologist Janet Lloyd said that most of these people are not lost in otherwise uninhabited lands, but rather are surrounded by other indigenous groups and under constant pressure from loggers and other developers. "They remain in isolation because they actively choose to do so," she said.

Unfortunately how long they will survive remains in question OSIT because of the Rothschild interest, and I think they will probably become extinct or forcibly relocated and assimilated into our so called modern society.

I just give this as an example of how a community can survive side by side with a technology culture.

The link below is of some images of another indigenous tribe. The images were taken by helicopter (It's from the BBC News). The image I found interesting is the 4th one it shows 3 individuals 2 appear to be painted red and one black. This brought to mind the use (as noted by Laura) of predominately
red and black colour in the images of prehistoric cave art. Could they be the shamans of the group
trying to ward off danger to the community.

http://news.BBC.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7426869.stm



But then I got to thinking although we have knowledge of the past and can possibly learn from the past in creating a new reality, that maybe we are already in the process of creating a new reality. Maybe we just haven't got all the details together yet, let me try and explain.

I was thinking about Shamans and there role in the community, they were intermediaries between human and the world of spirit, they were capable of entering into supernatural realms to obtain answers to the problems of the community, they were bards/storytellers etc.. I also thought about the role in megalithic cultures, they were active participants in the culture, they had a partner had children (I think that this was a family lineage) that they lived in the world but at times were not part of it in a sense.

When looking at images of megaliths or dolmens there are some structures that have been identified as burial chambers, but I just can't get that idea because as far as I know there have been no human remains found (I could very well be wrong about that, I just don't really know for sure). I think they may possibly have been meditation chambers, so the shaman could communicate with a divine cosmic mind. I will post a link below to give examples of what I am talking about.


http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index

Sorry to post the whole page, but I am having difficulty posting individual images, anyway it's the top image on the left (2007 photocontest). There more examples on the site.

So back to why I think that we are already in the process of creating our own reality and what the role of shamanism is in the community/group. After lurking the forum and now becoming a participant and also since the EE programme has begun, (forming our own meditation chambers). I have noticed that there is an explosion of new information, it seems more intelligent, focused and creative, I give this example by Iconoclast about water, (I found it fascinating). I don't want to single any one member out but just wanted to give this as one example, because there are many post by members in different areas of the forum.


http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13524.0

So my thought is that each member is in a way becoming there own shaman in an individual way through connecting with the divine within themselves, sharing there knowledge and experiences with the group, but also creating part of a larger whole organic body of consciousness that could also be called Shaman. Which in turn is creating a new reality. How we get to the physical reality of getting 200 people together and actually experience this reality as a workable and functional group, that are all on the same page so to speak needs great work on the individual personality OSIT, so that no one personality dominates the group, this in turn could form what I think would be the personality of the group, each one being separate but part of the whole group.

I apologize if this appears as rambling but I don't know if it is just me but I feel really frustrated using this 3D medium of communication and trying to convey my thoughts/impressions/ideas so that other members can get the gist of what I am thinking.

As an end note I am still pondering the question of psychopathy and how to deal with the issue.
 
Thanks, Nomad. I appreciate your straightforward summary and questions.

I'm glad to consider the scenario in terms that WE ARE the 200, and that is, of course, assuming that I could be one of them.

I agree 100% with everything you have suggested. In fact, we already have the roles of Shaman and inner circle occupied, obviously, by Laura, Ark, the QFG. Who else would have more knowledge, DO-ability and RESPONSE-ability?

As for myself, I would be happy being just on the outskirts of such a community, being monitored 24 hours a day and giving all I could, just to be a part of the group. As long as I knew noone was trying to kill me, poison me, or whatever, and that I had opportunity to learn more than I now know, I think I could be extremely happy and productive.


Nomad said:
So perhaps we should now be looking at the practicalities, on the assumption (of responsibility) that we ARE the 200, and we need to look at how we develop these core principles in our daily lives, and working towards the future, on the principle of "build it and they will come"?

On that basis, I have questions to stimulate some more input Smiley
How do we correctly put these ideas into practice in our daily lives?
What is the core information - what are the various components, and how can it be structured and presented to those others of our 'family', in a properly appropriate / digestible manner?
How do we begin to disconnect from our dependence on the current pathological civilisation we live in, and to defend ourselves against it at the same time?
How do we care for and defend this family in its current 'foetal' state, from the highly dangerous and toxic external conditions, to give it a chance to grow?
and... what else have I missed? Wink

I think that each of us are already, or at least trying, to put "these ideas into practice" to the best of our abilities, with each having varying amounts of knowledge and ability and success.

The 'core information' of the various psychological pathologies could be presented to 'the family' as needed in order to deal with it, or as requested by someone wanting to learn more, I guess. Maybe it would be similar to dealing with our own multiple 'I's'. We observe, learn about what we observe, apply what we know to what we observe and watch responses. We learn from that and add to or adjust our next move to bring more into the light. If we have a stable core of knowledge, then that is the ground that we can stand on in order to evaluate what's happening within us or within others at any given time.

Disconnecting from dependence on the pathological civilization probably requires a group with a broad enough mix of abilities, from farming to water purifying (I think).

'Defending ourselves against it' is tricky. It might involve anything from taking steps to become invisible to the pathologicals in some way to being able to actively verbally, legally and/or physically defend ourselves and others from interference from them. After all, "this family in its current 'foetal' state" is like a baby who is totally defenseless and has to be taken care of in every way.

These are just some thoughts. Hopefully it's not just word salad. I don't have the answers, so I need some help here. Maybe, I have at least, provided some information that someone else could build on.

I need to think about this some more. Thanks for the challenge. :)
 
Buddy said:
Disconnecting from dependence on the pathological civilization probably requires a group with a broad enough mix of abilities, from farming to water purifying (I think).

'Defending ourselves against it' is tricky. It might involve anything from taking steps to become invisible to the pathologicals in some way to being able to actively verbally, legally and/or physically defend ourselves and others from interference from them. After all, "this family in its current 'foetal' state" is like a baby who is totally defenseless and has to be taken care of in every way.

These are just some thoughts. Hopefully it's not just word salad. I don't have the answers, so I need some help here. Maybe, I have at least, provided some information that someone else could build on.

I need to think about this some more. Thanks for the challenge. :)

My first thought about defending our "baby" group is that seems nearly impossible. The paths' have all the guns, are willing to do harm without remorse. How can we keep from being immediately exterminated in this kind of environment?

But Laura has somehow managed (with great persistence) to do her work so the bad guys apparently can't have it all their own way. Perhaps we already are "invisible" to them in a sense. They look for lying, mechanical behavior in people they can exploit. When they find some who have few of these characteristics they move on to easier prey.

So maybe the answer to defense is don't play their game. We aren't going to "overthrow" the matrix, not going to fight it. Just quietly build our community on principles the paths' cannot comprehend. Remember the power the psychopaths possess comes from our own ignorance of their nature. They are not powerful because of strengths they possess. They lack the most important entity in the universe.

Mac
 
Mac said:
But Laura has somehow managed (with great persistence) to do her work so the bad guys apparently can't have it all their own way. Perhaps we already are "invisible" to them in a sense. They look for lying, mechanical behavior in people they can exploit. When they find some who have few of these characteristics they move on to easier prey.


Thanks, Mac. I have been kind of struggling to put this in words for awhile, I think, because I do believe that when one engages in this Work, begins to act responsibly and maturely and also considerately - especially with others, the friction becomes internal as heat for the crucible instead of external as 'fighting for this or that'.

I understand this Work as a way of life that draws little or no attention from the 'paths' for the reasons you mention, but the specifics of withdrawing from the pathological civilization and surviving as a group is the (logistical?) issue that's exercising me, I think.

Perhaps one of the general, yet main ideas is to build our own self-supporting economy (exchange system)? Somehow, I think it's more complicated than that, but I'm not sure.
 
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