Cryogenic Chamber Therapy / Cold Adaptation

Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

beetlemaniac said:
seek10 said:
Still , my weighing machine didn't show me losing any weight( may be little bit) , but I see the difference in mirror. Not sure how that can be. Any way , I decided to go little slow on this to calm down the scary feelings. Initially I can easily feel the heat after cold bath, later that heat came down ( probably over exposure) . Thanks for suggestion and sharing your experience.
Just speculating but maybe you grew some muscle to offset the loss in fat?

Yes that's a solution. Also muscles have a higher density than fat, so you can gain weight while losing fat and reducing your body volume (if you build up enough muscles during the process).
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Have continued with a cold shower a day - used to have them in the middle of preparing/having my now-much-bigger breakfasts, but now have them afterwards.

I've also turned off heating in the room I spent most of the day in, and also drink some iced water from time to time.

No attempts at any real ice-cold immersions as yet, though.


It's hard to know what to attribute to what, since I've also adjusted the eating patterns (zero snacking, huge breakfasts, more protein and larger meals in general).

In any case, my body now heats itself better (extremities no longer ice-cold all day), I find myself less sensitive to (and in part enjoying) cold, and my weight has finally begun to go up - it has gone past ~52kg for the first time ever in my life, and at this rate, if present developments continue, I won't be long before I cease to remain chronically slightly underweight. (no way of eating ever solved that before)


Also, have noticed curious emotional release in the (cold) shower: A few days ago I was seething with (undirected, seemingly targetless) anger as I showered, and growling like mad. Even before there was a hint of anger, and some anger still comes out, but less now. In general, after the shower I am calmer and more alert than before, and more clear-headed.
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

On the second week of cold baths, starting again with five minute incremental sessions for more immersion – only arms and upper front torso out of water. Now up to 40 minutes, and have reduced the sessions to one a day – in the morning – since the recovery time, at least for the longer sessions is of the order of 3.5-4 hours. And after a couple of nights of going to bed before this was complete, the effect was of seriously disrupted sleep for the first half of the night. For the longer sessions it’s OK until the last 5-10 minutes before the increased time starts then heavy shivering take place. On getting out and drying off, the shivering continues for some time before it begins to abate. Another five minute increment to do before starting again, this time immersing my arms and more of my chest in the water for five minutes sessions leading up to 45 minutes.

My weight has gone down slightly – possibly muscle growth from the shivering. :) I’ve got a little better at coping with the cold, with no heating on during the day, and lighter clothes on than I’d normally have on when outside.

Psyche asked earlier for information on BMI for those of us doing this process: 24.74 at the start of the process. Still a long way to go before I get fully adapted. And, there still the ice addition to go. :O
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

We did our 10th cryo session today. Some days/times it is easy, some not. We are really kinda miserable in the tiny camp/apartment we are staying in close to the cryo place so it's hard to assess results. Maybe the fact that we are able to endure uncomfortable beds, streetlights glaring in all night, noise and so forth, is a testament to the benefits?
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Odyssey said:
For all the people trying the cold baths and showers, Dr. Kruse recommends having a protein and fat meal right before the cold exposure. This makes it more tolerable. I've noticed this myself. Taking a cold bath on an empty stomach is not cool at all.


from http://jackkruse.com/the-evolution-of-the-leptin-rx/
0. You first must chose what environment you want to cold adapt too. The physics of heat loss following cold water immersion dictate a more rapid drop in surface and core temperature than from exposure to a cold air environment. So most people will choose to use water because it works a lot faster. Before you start, always eat a high fat (MCT>saturated fats>MUFA’s>PUFA’s) and/or protein meal right before you attempt to cold adapt. Also drink 16-32 oz. of ice cold water immediately prior to the test no matter what stage you are at. Why you ask? Your body temperature is incredibly hot at approximately 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit, and ice water is approximately 40 degrees Fahrenheit. In order to maintain this homeostasis, your body has to bring that ice water up by about 60 degrees, and, by definition, it takes 1 calorie to raise the temperature of 1 liter of water by approximately 2 degrees Fahrenheit. That means that to raise the temperature of 1 liter of ice water by 60 degrees Fahrenheit, your body would burn about 30 calories. Two liters, which is about eight glasses of water, would burn 60 calories. Do not drink more than 32 oz of water before this test because cold adaptation also effects our thirst centers. You should always consider drinking cold liquids as part of your dietary plan as it can increase your metabolic rate by 30-40%. If you get a lot of brain freezes when you drink cold things this might signal you suffer with a high tissue omega six level. You need to proceed with caution while trying to apply cold thermogenesis. You will see why your omega 6 level matter soon.

I usually will do my training in the AM at sunrise or at night fall after dinner. I do not recommend trying this on an empty stomach. In the beginning of my adaptation I also used Bitter Melon extract to cold adapt. The reason is that bitter melon appears to be quite effective at causing formation of BAT from WAT especially in T2D or those with metabolic syndrome. No one knows why it really works but I believe it is has to do with the simultaneous loss of adiponectin and leptin from fat cells with the simultaneous induction of Irisin from the cold stimulus on the skin and subcutaneous fat.

I am not agree with taking a cold shower after meal, at least it was a light one. There is something called "hydrocution" or termic shock. My father knew a person who died after to eat and go for a cool shower, and that was the official cause of death.

I find some links, one in french and another in spanish, (psyche can you take a look at this last?) in english the term seems to be not common.

French https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocution

Spanish

https://paradigmedical.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/%C2%BFcorte-de-digestion-no-%C2%A1hidrocucion/

El fenómeno de la hidrocución.

Hidrocución se entiende como “la muerte por inmersión en un líquido antes de que éste pase a los pulmones”, es decir, que la causa de la muerte no es el ahogamiento –de ahí mi uso de las comillas en el párrafo anterior– sino los fenómenos fisiopatológicos que acontecen al entrar en contacto la piel y el agua. Este hecho tiene su fundamento en un cambio brusco que sufre el sistema nervioso desde una actitud parasimpática (llamémosla “de reposo”) a una actitud simpática (“de actividad”), lo cual se traduce en una inhibición nerviosa refleja que “bloquea” el organismo. Por decirlo de otro modo, se trataría de un sobresalto –en nuestro caso un choque de agua fría– que estimula más de la cuenta el cuerpo en un momento determinado y en unas condiciones específicas que “sobrecargan” el organismo haciendo que éste se bloquee. Existen tres teorías que explican la patogenia del proceso:

Al proceder a la inmersión del sujeto en el agua éste experimenta un descenso muy pronunciado de la temperatura corporal. El agua está fría en comparación con la piel que está caliente, máxime si se trata de verano y acabamos de tomar el sol. Lo que sucede entonces es que se produce una vasoconstricción inmediata y extrema al contacto con el fluido frío, aumentando bruscamente la presión sanguínea y produciéndose un choque hemodinámico. Esta activación simpática tan aguda genera un reflejo nervioso inhibidor a modo de descarga que provoca un stop repentino de pulmones y corazón llevándonos a una parada cardiorrespiratoria.
Además, en ocasiones la mucosa nasofaríngea puede verse afectada por el mismo mecanismo explicado en el punto anterior, al contacto con el agua fría, provocando un espasmo de la laringe. Esta es una situación crítica dado que se bloquea la entrada del aire a los pulmones deteniéndose la respiración de manera inmediata.
En última instancia y coincidiendo con los dos eventos anteriores todo ello se podría ver acompañado de una descarga desmesurada de sustancias vasoactivas tipo histamina que perpetuaría sinérgicamente los mecanismos anteriores.

En definitiva se trataría de una persona, aparentemente sana, que decide pegarse un baño después de haber estado tomando el sol y que nada más sumergirse en el agua pierde el conocimiento y se hunde. Al rescatarla destaca su llamativa palidez provocada por la vasoconstricción de la piel. La gente que lo ha presenciado tiende a atribuir el hecho a un corte de digestión por la proximidad en el tiempo de la última ingesta de alimentos.

El mito del corte de digestión.

Entonces, ¿es cierto el mito del corte mortal de digestión? Pues en parte sí y en parte no. La digestión es un fenómeno fisiológico donde prima el estado de activación parasimpática, el aparato digestivo se encuentra recibiendo un aporte de sangre extra para realizar su trabajo. Es decir, que estar haciendo la digestión predispone a poder sufrir una hidrocución con mayor facilidad que quien no ha ingerido alimentos previamente puesto que hay más sangre en territorio digestivo y por tanto menos sangre disponible en territorio cerebral en caso de necesidad. Ante un reflejo de sumersión en agua fría la vasoconstricción de la piel genera una sobrecarga cardiaca y un bajo gasto que, sumado a que gran cantidad de sangre se encuentra en el aparato digestivo por la actividad parasimpática de la digestión, provoca que no llegue sangre al cerebro y aparezca el síncope por hidrocución, todo ello si antes no acontenció la parada cardiorrespiratoria al ser el estímulo demasiado grande. Lo que está claro es que el hecho de estar haciendo la digestión y que “se corte” no es la causa del fallecimiento del individuo.

Otro factor que favorece la hidrocución es el extremo calor ambiente, pues los baños suelen ser en verano, a altas horas del medio día con el sol vertical y una exposición directa de la piel al mismo. A mayor diferencia térmica entre el individuo y el agua mayor será el estímulo nervioso producido y por tanto la hidrocución será más severa.

¿Cómo evitar la hidrocución?

Si somos capaces de eliminar inteligentemente la diferencia de temperatura entre la piel y el agua entonces prevendremos de manera eficaz que alguien pueda morir hidrocutado. Para ello una buena técnica es permanecer un rato en la orilla del mar remojándonos un poquito antes de entrar al agua de forma que la activación simpática será gradual, paulatina, y el cuerpo vaya adaptándose poco a poco. Así no se desencadenará el reflejo nervioso inhibitorio causante de la parada cardiorrespiratoria.

Hacer esto es importante siempre, ya que la hidrocución no es un evento que afecte solamente a la gente que acaba de comer sino que puede afectar a cualquier individuo haya o no ingerido alimientos.

¡Ojo! Cabe señalar que, aunque el corte de digestión era el principal protagonista de este post, de la misma manera cualquier situación que incremente la temperatura diferencial entre nosotros y el agua, como por ejemplo haber estado haciendo deporte y zambullirse en el agua de sopetón, o cualquier actividad que suponga un cambio muy brusco de una actitud parasimpática a una actitud simpática, supone riesgo de morir hidrocutado.

Hemos acabado con un mito…

Así que ya sabéis, no hay que tenerle miedo al corte de digestión sino a la hidrocución. Ella es la culpable de las muertes en el agua que se achacan a las comilonas a pie de playa y el ansia de baño inmediato. Cabe insistir en que la persona no muere ahogada, sino que muere a consecuencia del choque térmico por shock hemodinámico y/o parada cardiorrespiratoria. Lo más prudente es esperar un tiempo a digerir la comida antes de iniciar el baño –resulta incómodo bañarse con la barriga llena, por lo menos a mi xD–, pero si te bañas con precaución aún con la panza repleta en teoría no deberías temer que te ocurriera nada malo (báñate en la orilla por si acaso…).

Si alguna vez presenciáis un accidente de este calibre, rápidamente iniciad maniobras de reanimación cardiopulmonar ¡y solicitad un desfribilador! Y no cejéis en vuestro empeño reanimador hasta que no se cumpla el axioma de Reuler: “No se debe nunca abandonar la RCP hasta que el paciente esté caliente y muerto”.

Hale, ¡a disfrutar del verano!
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Galaxia2002 said:
I am not agree with taking a cold shower after meal, at least it was a light one. There is something called "hydrocution" or termic shock. My father knew a person who died after to eat and go for a cool shower, and that was the official cause of death.

It seems to be the same principle as to why cryotherapy is contraindicated if you have heart problems since it will not be able to withstand the shock and also the reason why they ask for medical certificates in order to do cryotherapy, at least in France (they want to make sure a person will be able to withstand the shock).

Going into a sympathetic shock after a parasympathetic state for digesting food can be a little bit too much to a susceptible person (i.e. if he or she has heart disease).
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Prodigal Son said:
My weight has gone down slightly – possibly muscle growth from the shivering.

Not to sound overly paranoid, but go easy! I figure this is like running a marathon (slight exaggeration) every day - sure some people could do it from having absolutely no training and no adaption period, but you've got to be careful that you aren't over doing it.
Warming up your core temperature is a lot of effort for the body!

Incidentely, taking a week or so of body temperature showers and then a minute or two of cold at the end (making sure to not keep the water in one place for too long, so as not to drop my core temperature too much) has been enough to cause me to gain weight/muscle mass. So I'm not convinced you need to spend so long in cold bathes to get the same effect, but I may be wrong.
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

RedFox said:
Prodigal Son said:
My weight has gone down slightly – possibly muscle growth from the shivering.

Not to sound overly paranoid, but go easy! I figure this is like running a marathon (slight exaggeration) every day - sure some people could do it from having absolutely no training and no adaption period, but you've got to be careful that you aren't over doing it.
My thoughts as well. Please be careful everyone.
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

Belibaste said:
beetlemaniac said:
seek10 said:
Still , my weighing machine didn't show me losing any weight( may be little bit) , but I see the difference in mirror. Not sure how that can be. Any way , I decided to go little slow on this to calm down the scary feelings. Initially I can easily feel the heat after cold bath, later that heat came down ( probably over exposure) . Thanks for suggestion and sharing your experience.
Just speculating but maybe you grew some muscle to offset the loss in fat?

Yes that's a solution. Also muscles have a higher density than fat, so you can gain weight while losing fat and reducing your body volume (if you build up enough muscles during the process).
Probably true. I don't see any muscule either. any way expecting big changes after one week is too much. For now, I stopped every thing, will slowly start in next 2 to 3 days.
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

RedFox said:
Incidentely, taking a week or so of body temperature showers and then a minute or two of cold at the end (making sure to not keep the water in one place for too long, so as not to drop my core temperature too much) has been enough to cause me to gain weight/muscle mass. So I'm not convinced you need to spend so long in cold bathes to get the same effect, but I may be wrong.

I've noticed similar changes without excessive cold exposure; at least I think I have. For the most part, I've not been overly diligent on the cold adaptation. I get into a luke warm shower and bring the temperature down in increments. It gets cold, some days moreso than others, but I still have yet to go all the way to entirely cold water. In fact, I don't know that I'll ever go that far.

Then about once a week I've been doing cold baths, although here I've been using only cold water. Today I sat with my legs and up to my waist submerged for 10 minutes, then bent my legs up and leaned back, submerging my back and shoulders for 10 minutes. I think in the future I'll turn over and do my chest for 10 minutes also. All in all, it wasn't totally unpleasant :)

None the less, with as little as I'm doing, I'm noticing some changes in body composition. Like others have mentioned, it's not scale-weight changes, but seems like muscle development and fat loss. It's subtle, but I'm pretty convinced it's not my imagination. Like RedFox is suggesting, it doesn't seem to require a lot of extreme cold submersion to see changes. No superpowers yet, though :lol:
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

I've been doing body temperature (where the water just barely starts to feel colder than just being in room temperature air) showers ending with a few minutes of just cold water (brrrrr!) too. And continuing to expose my self to colder air every chance I get with little covering (blanket in bed or clothes outside, etc.). I'm going to go colder as the weather warms up (just starting to now). Also, there may be a cryogenic chamber here to my great surprise.

My mother mentioned it to me a few days before her minor stroke last Sunday. She met someone (a relative of some friends visiting) around summer of 2007 or 2008 who treats lung diseases (and perhaps other things) with extreme cold. He gave her a card she wasn't able to find, but she'll be asking the friends (this man's relatives) in Canada and another mutual friend here to see if she can get his contact.

By the way, muscle is about three times more dense than fat. So if you gain a gram of muscle it will weigh three times more than a gram of fat. This shows that all sorts of small weight gain / weight loss or even staying the same weight while body composition changes can occur. For example you may lose just enough fat and gain just enough muscle where you remain the same weight or gain just a bit even though you've lost some noticeable fat (the muscle gain being too little to notice easily but makes more difference in weight because of its density).
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

RedFox said:
Prodigal Son said:
My weight has gone down slightly – possibly muscle growth from the shivering.

Not to sound overly paranoid, but go easy! I figure this is like running a marathon (slight exaggeration) every day - sure some people could do it from having absolutely no training and no adaption period, but you've got to be careful that you aren't over doing it.
Warming up your core temperature is a lot of effort for the body!

... So I'm not convinced you need to spend so long in cold bathes to get the same effect, but I may be wrong.
Just following the Kruse protocol, and yes, doing it more slowly than he suggests - I'm breaking it into three progressions, and minus the ice. Body temperature on exit is 17-18C as opposed to required 10-12.5C. So a way to go yet. Back to five minutes full immersion tomorrow - arms and upper chest in - (from 45mins max today with arms and upper chest out of the water - and recovery time was shorter, by an hour to an hour and a half, than yesterday). At the moment it seems that 25mins is where I've adapted to at this temperature.
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

I am currently south from where I normally live and it's noticeably colder. Have done now a few days of cold showers in the evening and only wearing light clothes in the cool. A bit of shivering now and then, but not too bad. I also sleep with only a thin cover, so nights are a bit cool with some sleep interruption, although I still think that I get a decent sleep. Ovall not too painful ...

I will only be able to do that for two weeks, then it's back to the tropics and sweating. Cold showers up there are impossible, the water is at best body warm. And I don't have a bath, so no ice baths either. Might think about buying a big tub where I can soak at least my upper body in ice water.

Thought I would give this a try just to see what happens in these two weeks. If I am lucky I might get some leptin sensitivity back (or maybe not).

BTW, my BMI at the moment is 26.6 ... :-[
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

This may be somewhat off topic, but I posted this on this thread because of the effect of extreme cold on a premature baby who was pronounced dead, placed in a refrigerated morgue for a period of time, and then, after hours had passed, was found alive.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/argentina-baby-alive-morgue_n_1417041.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D151036
 
Re: Cryogenic Chamber Therapy

A side effect that I noticed this last, and may similar to the one found when moving from carb to fat-burning is a noticeable loss in stamina. I've away walking in the mountains, and as usual, the first time for the year is a matter of acclimatising my legs to walking in the mountains. Day one started OK, until the end when my legs turned to jelly - never happened this bad before. The next day they were sore (usual) but my stamina for walking was severely reduced and I could only manage half the distance and half the usual height gain. It was only after a further rest day that my energy and stamina returned, and with the anticipated expectation of walking time, distance, and height achieved.

In terms of continuing the progression of cold baths this was put on hold as I only had access to a shower - nothing like the same as a cold bath. And, restarting with a cold bath this morning it was back to square one from where I'd reached (10 mins full immersion), back to just 5 minutes, and more shivering than I'd experience before. I can now see why Kruse recommends a maintenance of 2 or more cold baths a week.
 
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