Depression As A Stepping Stone (to Soul Growth)

[rognaill]

Thanks all three of you for your replys.

Windmill night,

Getting some plants is a great idea, I take care of the ones in the backyard but indoor plants become part of the household and may provide me with some company. Plus the idea of helping something grow and nourish has some obvious coorelation to what I need to do for myself.

And I am 'staying on the healthy stuff' as much as possible. Luckily there is a Whole Foods a couple of miles away and an area Farmers Market within walking distance to me that happens on the weekends. I am pretty free of overly processed foods and drink organic beer even! No chemical cleaners or body products either, so my focus is on supplements and detox as I do live in a city and share the air with many cars and who knows what else.

Making new friends I am not there yet, have to wrestle a couple of issues first to keep me on my path to self-rediscovery. Chiefly I have an overwhelming sense of needing to be with someone physically and do not trust myself to not persue friendship only (with women). I still have many of my guy friends, however there is an astonishment and feeling of condolences from them for 'losing' my family life that is hard to be around. Especially after being to many thier role model for a compassionate and fun dad. 'Abject failure' is one adjective that comes to mind when I access these feelings. Doubtful I am really thought of that way, but still feel it.

I keep busy with my new job, but work is not life and I think I will look for other things to keep me busy. I am excited about the yoga class.

And I am saving for a massive IKEA trip soon for myself and my kids. They are excited to have a say in what will become thier space in my home, and the possibilities that didn't exist for them before this turn of events. They have taken it better than me to be honest.

Nienna,

Volunteer work sounds scary! I am a volunteer for one big project that will get into the Guiness world book this year, but it is nothing like visiting a cancer ward. I have lots of opportunities for that where I live, we have one of the biggest trauma centers on the planet. I might look into that though, one of the trauma centers is within walking distance to me. As for the book suggestion, I have heard of this book many times but have not read it. Might do so to see if I can find the 'gems' myself.

Ryan,

Dude I hope my divorce doesn't last that long, but even today it dawned on me that while I want a lawyer-less ordeal, one may be in order afterall as I will not compromise my access to the kids for the convienence of my ex.

I so didn't think I would end up here, but here I am.

We tried therapy for many months, which only seemed to make things worse. It shone light on how much we have grown apart and how non-colinear we are. This group is a cult in her mind and has been from day one (which was pre 911!) so a long time to grow on our paths and increase the gulf between us. I wish her luck on hers, and want to do mine alone for the time being. I have stayed away from bars through this all thus far, although many a time I have been tempted to go. Really tempted!! But each time I almost go, I challenge myself to see what it is I am hoping to achieve, the consequences of such action and usually decide that Netflix is a better option/date. Don't know how long this will last though, I am human and desires for female companionship is something I wish for. Which is ironic as part of me thinks all women are evil. ;)

Thanks all.

 

[RyanX]

We tried therapy for many months, which only seemed to make things worse. It shone light on how much we have grown apart and how non-colinear we are. This group is a cult in her mind and has been from day one (which was pre 911!) so a long time to grow on our paths and increase the gulf between us. I wish her luck on hers, and want to do mine alone for the time being. I have stayed away from bars through this all thus far, although many a time I have been tempted to go. Really tempted!! But each time I almost go, I challenge myself to see what it is I am hoping to achieve, the consequences of such action and usually decide that Netflix is a better option/date. Don't know how long this will last though, I am human and desires for female companionship is something I wish for. Which is ironic as part of me thinks all women are evil. ;)

rognaill,

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting female companionship. The problem is that in the state you're in right now, any relationship will be a rebound and likely to lead to some sort of feeding or emotional manipulation. Giving yourself some time to process through your marriage, understand the dynamics, and then try to relate that to whatever childhood causes led you to that relationship in the first place, is the only way to ensure that you don't make the same mistake again. Think of it like a healing process and like all healing, it inevitably takes time.

Don't feel confined to your home either. You can still go out and take a book to a coffee shop, library or other quiet place. You can take classes, get involved with sports, volunteer like Windmill Knight and Nienna mentioned. I recently found a celiacs support group in my area that I'm going to check out later this month and hopefully get some cooking tips and network with some people around here, as an example. I think the yoga class you mentioned is a great idea. All better options than a night out drinking at the bars.

Take care! :)

 

[Laura]

Just want to add that, after my separation, I really understood just how addicted I was to the presence of my ex and my suffering. It really was like cold-turkey withdrawal.

 

[Gimpy]

Just want to add that, after my separation, I really understood just how addicted I was to the presence of my ex and my suffering. It really was like cold-turkey withdrawal.

Is there such a thing as addiction to programs? :/

I'm trying to pull one out by the roots, its called "You're sick, and that makes you different(weaker, lesser, defective) from everyone else, give up and be thankful you're allowed to exist at all."

Its been running the longest, and working on it makes me want to die. (Which is stupid, when the facts support I'm doing much better mentally, and physically on the new diet, and I've actually been happy.)

Too many issues dovetail into this program: fears of 'success', that its all my fault I've been sick so very long etc....few of them are logical, but all of them feel like rocks on my chest.


What is the root of the phenomena of addiction? How do we disentangle ourselves from it without self destructing?


This is on my mind a lot these days. :(

 

[anart]

Just want to add that, after my separation, I really understood just how addicted I was to the presence of my ex and my suffering. It really was like cold-turkey withdrawal.

Is there such a thing as addiction to programs? :/

I'm trying to pull one out by the roots, its called "You're sick, and that makes you different(weaker, lesser, defective) from everyone else, give up and be thankful you're allowed to exist at all."

Its been running the longest, and working on it makes me want to die. (Which is stupid, when the facts support I'm doing much better mentally, and physically on the new diet, and I've actually been happy.)

Too many issues dovetail into this program: fears of 'success', that its all my fault I've been sick so very long etc....few of them are logical, but all of them feel like rocks on my chest.


What is the root of the phenomena of addiction? How do we disentangle ourselves from it without self destructing?


This is on my mind a lot these days. :(

Hi Gimpy, it sounds like you are identified with your illness - you take it to be you. If you consider the idea that you are your essence and not your body, this might help. If you are not your body, then you are not female or male, short or tall, healthy or sick, or any other thing - your existence is you - not your body, not your illness. When one identifies with an aspect of their physical existence for a long time, it can feel like 'self-destruction' to disengage and shut down the identification. It's not - it's freedom. It is beginning to view the self as limitless and it is the beginning of limitless thinking. You are not your body; you are not your illness - no matter how much that illness has defined your life. If you can break that identification, then you stop what you refer to as 'the addiction'. Just some thoughts...

 

[Gimpy]

Just want to add that, after my separation, I really understood just how addicted I was to the presence of my ex and my suffering. It really was like cold-turkey withdrawal.

Is there such a thing as addiction to programs? :/

I'm trying to pull one out by the roots, its called "You're sick, and that makes you different(weaker, lesser, defective) from everyone else, give up and be thankful you're allowed to exist at all."

Its been running the longest, and working on it makes me want to die. (Which is stupid, when the facts support I'm doing much better mentally, and physically on the new diet, and I've actually been happy.)

Too many issues dovetail into this program: fears of 'success', that its all my fault I've been sick so very long etc....few of them are logical, but all of them feel like rocks on my chest.


What is the root of the phenomena of addiction? How do we disentangle ourselves from it without self destructing?


This is on my mind a lot these days. :(

Hi Gimpy, it sounds like you are identified with your illness - you take it to be you. If you consider the idea that you are your essence and not your body, this might help. If you are not your body, then you are not female or male, short or tall, healthy or sick, or any other thing - your existence is you - not your body, not your illness. When one identifies with an aspect of their physical existence for a long time, it can feel like 'self-destruction' to disengage and shut down the identification. It's not - it's freedom. It is beginning to view the self as limitless and it is the beginning of limitless thinking. You are not your body; you are not your illness - no matter how much that illness has defined your life. If you can break that identification, then you stop what you refer to as 'the addiction'. Just some thoughts...

On one hand I know Im not my body, which leads to the behavior of not taking care of it very well, and basically not wanting to have a body at all. This leads to more illness, and that makes a feedback loop into the program.

Maybe a better schedule to eat etc? Am I being clear with what the problem is?

It feels like wrestling Jabba the Hut.

 

[RedFox]

Gimpy you've actually been on my mind a lot recently....fwiw my recent understanding about my health problems and identifying with it may or may not help. In short my belief that 'the universe is a hostile place and out to get me' (and by proxy I was actually fighting part of myself with this belief) seems to have been manifesting as dis-ease.
If your still getting pain around your gall bladder/liver or when you eat fats, check out caprylic acid (if it helps you may have a low grade candida infection...which sure can make you feel like your dying) and coconut oil. Both have helped me immensely.

Hang in there and keep pulling on that thread!

 

[Gimpy]

Gimpy you've actually been on my mind a lot recently....fwiw my recent understanding about my health problems and identifying with it may or may not help. In short my belief that 'the universe is a hostile place and out to get me' (and by proxy I was actually fighting part of myself with this belief) seems to have been manifesting as dis-ease.
If your still getting pain around your gall bladder/liver or when you eat fats, check out caprylic acid (if it helps you may have a low grade candida infection...which sure can make you feel like your dying) and coconut oil. Both have helped me immensely.

Hang in there and keep pulling on that thread!

Will do. :) And thank you. I did pick up some Caprylic Acid on my last trip to town. I think its just time to tell all the 'voices' to shut up and get on with it.


**************

I've thought more through this some more, and I'm going to keep treating for leaky gut with the probiotics, enzymes with ox bile, and other supplements. A talk with Hubby this evening helped me sort out a plan of action, but I also know that at some point I'm going to get stuck again. His concern is my sleep/wake cycle is off. Allergies keep me up most of the night trying to breath, then I sleep all day. (Today I slept until well into the afternoon, around 2:30-3pm.) He said mild exercise and meat for breakfast helped a lot before the allergies got bad, and going back to that no matter what time 'breakfast' is might help turn things around.

I saw this article online and it rang true: http://www.naturalnews.com/029668_digestion_tips.html

This point jumped out at me:" Poor digestive function can cause nutrient deficiencies and numerous health problems like fatigue, emotional instability, skin disorders and more."

As for the rest of the rooting in my head with programs he summed it up like this: "when you finally get tired of banging your head against the wall over it, go make something, and you'll feel a lot better." :D

Thank you anart and Redfox for the encouragement. I'm not going to let things get to the point of suicidal thinking...when it rears up I hear the voice of an old friend who always said "Girl PLEASE, get a GRIP."

 

[Ollie]

Thank you anart and Redfox for the encouragement. I'm not going to let things get to the point of suicidal thinking...when it rears up I hear the voice of an old friend who always said "Girl PLEASE, get a GRIP." Laugh

Hang in there Gimpy. Face the fears and do away with them.

Hi Gimpy, it sounds like you are identified with your illness - you take it to be you. If you consider the idea that you are your essence and not your body, this might help. If you are not your body, then you are not female or male, short or tall, healthy or sick, or any other thing - your existence is you - not your body, not your illness. When one identifies with an aspect of their physical existence for a long time, it can feel like 'self-destruction' to disengage and shut down the identification. It's not - it's freedom. It is beginning to view the self as limitless and it is the beginning of limitless thinking. You are not your body; you are not your illness - no matter how much that illness has defined your life. If you can break that identification, then you stop what you refer to as 'the addiction'. Just some thoughts...

Thank you for that part of the post anart, it is an appropriate reminder for me right now, and it helps.

 

[shellycheval]

Gimpy

On one hand I know Im not my body, which leads to the behavior of not taking care of it very well, and basically not wanting to have a body at all. This leads to more illness, and that makes a feedback loop into the program.

But, our bodies are both the house and the vehicle for our true essence, as Anart says

you are your essence and not your body,

while we are in this 3D experience so we must maintenance them at least as well as we would take car of the house or car--repair the plumbing--tune up the engine--or we will be incapable of functioning and learning the lessons we have to learn here on Earth.

Addictions are about attachments and we can form them towards anything or anyone.
Laura

Just want to add that, after my separation, I really understood just how addicted I was to the presence of my ex and my suffering. It really was like cold-turkey withdrawal.

When I was finally able to remove my Borderline Personality Disordered Ex of ten years from my life, even though I was relieved and grateful, I still felt physically ill with the change--constant shut down drowsy sleepiness, sweating, trembling, headaches, and general malaise for about six weeks that gradually got better.

We can become attached and identified with that which causes us misery. We may intellectually know we need to give up some activity, thing, behavior, but knowing it and doing are two different things. I learned there is some payoff in remaining in our misery--some attachment/program that must be identified and routed out in order to grow in health and well being. It is so hard to see these in ourselves which is why recovery groups and forums are so important.
Good Luck Gimpy, rognaill, and all of us who struggle to be free.
shellycheval

 

[Buddy]

On one hand I know Im not my body, which leads to the behavior of not taking care of it very well, and basically not wanting to have a body at all. This leads to more illness, and that makes a feedback loop into the program.

Maybe a better schedule to eat etc? Am I being clear with what the problem is?

It feels like wrestling Jabba the Hut.

Hi Gimpy. You and I rarely cross paths, but when I read your post, my heart went out to you. Of course I don't have an "answer" but maybe a possibility to consider?

I'm going to risk getting a bop on the head here, but I want to ask you to reconsider something. I have found that whenever identification is active in me, there is little of the oversight that helps me to notice inconsistencies here and there.

IOW, reinstating logical consistency might help to point out an area to explore.

When you said:

On one hand I know Im not my body, which leads to the behavior of not taking care of it very well, and basically not wanting to have a body at all.

I was in immediate disagreement. Based on your own comments, I thought it should read:

"On one hand I know I reject my body, which leads to the behavior of not taking care of it very well, and basically not wanting to have a body at all."

When I noticed what was occurring within my own psyche with regard to your expression of your pains, I also thought of Belibaste and the example of dealing with deep emotional issues resulting in the clearing up of physical malfunctions and so I thought I'd take the chance of offending you by telling you what I see (even though it might be wrong), for your consideration.

 

[Mixtli]

For me. Sometimes this feeling of uneasiness comes and puts me in a blue state of mind. Not wanting to do much work. For me the downside is that as a graphic designer my emotions tend to see reflected in the work. It is not like I am an artist or something but there is a need in my line of work for creativity input and some days or weeks I just do not feel creative. I ll try to put a lot of effort in the EE program. I have sort of neglected that in the last weeks. But it is like this: the sky is gray. Its been raining since the night. And I feel like this is the way my life will play for some years.

 

[Graalsword]

For me. Sometimes this feeling of uneasiness comes and puts me in a blue state of mind. Not wanting to do much work. For me the downside is that as a graphic designer my emotions tend to see reflected in the work. It is not like I am an artist or something but there is a need in my line of work for creativity input and some days or weeks I just do not feel creative. I ll try to put a lot of effort in the EE program. I have sort of neglected that in the last weeks. But it is like this: the sky is gray. Its been raining since the night. And I feel like this is the way my life will play for some years.

Maybe you can use those emotions in a positive way. In my case, being a musician, when I am depressed, I use the depression to make music. And I even start creating melodies even when I don´t feel creative at all, as a kind of game, without overdemanding myself high level creativity performance, just like playing musical games with my mind. I think it must be a kind of prevention of getting blocked. If I don´t do that, I get blocked for several weeks or months. I also think Mixtli, that there are a sort of cycles, during some time, one is more creative, with a lot of thinkgs to put outwards, and during some following period, one is less creative and more oriented to listen, learn and get new things that will fuel the future new creative cycle. So I think that it could be better to accept those cycles and adapt yourself to face the "low one"

 

[Oxajil]

For me. Sometimes this feeling of uneasiness comes and puts me in a blue state of mind. Not wanting to do much work. For me the downside is that as a graphic designer my emotions tend to see reflected in the work. It is not like I am an artist or something but there is a need in my line of work for creativity input and some days or weeks I just do not feel creative. I ll try to put a lot of effort in the EE program. I have sort of neglected that in the last weeks. But it is like this: the sky is gray. Its been raining since the night. And I feel like this is the way my life will play for some years.

Maybe you can use those emotions in a positive way. In my case, being a musician, when I am depressed, I use the depression to make music. And I even start creating melodies even when I don´t feel creative at all, as a kind of game, without overdemanding myself high level creativity performance, just like playing musical games with my mind. I think it must be a kind of prevention of getting blocked. If I don´t do that, I get blocked for several weeks or months. I also think Mixtli, that there are a sort of cycles, during some time, one is more creative, with a lot of thinkgs to put outwards, and during some following period, one is less creative and more oriented to listen, learn and get new things that will fuel the future new creative cycle. So I think that it could be better to accept those cycles and adapt yourself to face the "low one"

I think this is great advice. In my eyes, it's normal that your emotions tend to be seen in your work (if it's not a job, then you should be careful of course). And I think every emotion can produce something. If you're sad and angry, then you can express those in the way you would express other emotions. You say ''I just do not feel creative'', I also have noticed I have times of being creative and sometimes of not being creative, but I have learned that creativity is always there and you can pick it up whenever you want. If you say you can't because you are depressed, sad or angry, then you are preventing yourself to pick it up. If you stay open for the possibility that some kind of creativity input will come from you, even if it is ''dark'', then you might be able to pick it up and express your emotions like you would with the others (if you want to). Afterwards you could do some lab journaling, why you felt the way you felt, where it came from, what you experienced during expressing etc.
The thing is, we have and feel emotions every day, so why would we be able to express them in a creative way one day and not be able to do this the other day? It's something I'm thinking about.

You can either wait for the ''creativity'' to come, or you can decide to be creative. All the power is in your hands. It's not the rain, or grayness, of course it is if you wish to remain a machine. Influences from outside decide for us, coincidences decide for us, and that makes us feel like we can't decide for ourselves, but we can! Just as DCM is dark/light, good/bad, ugly/beautiful etc. so do we have sad/happy feelings. And they all have the right to Be (and to be understood and dealt with), and they can be expressed the way you want it.

I'm not saying this is the way you should do it, just sharing my thoughts here.

So I think that it could be better to accept those cycles and adapt yourself to face the "low one"

Or maybe we can make the ''low one'' a ''high one'' ourselves? Would that be possible you think?

 

[Graalsword]

You can either wait for the ''creativity'' to come, or you can decide to be creative. All the power is in your hands. It's not the rain, or grayness, of course it is if you wish to remain a machine. Influences from outside decide for us, coincidences decide for us, and that makes us feel like we can't decide for ourselves, but we can! Just as DCM is dark/light, good/bad, ugly/beautiful etc. so do we have sad/happy feelings. And they all have the right to Be (and to be understood and dealt with), and they can be expressed the way you want it.

I'm not saying this is the way you should do it, just sharing my thoughts here.

So I think that it could be better to accept those cycles and adapt yourself to face the "low one"

Or maybe we can make the ''low one'' a ''high one'' ourselves? Would that be possible you think?

Sure, I guess once we know why there are those lows and highs and what is all about it, we can go beyond that. But then, what is to be creative? I think that being creative is not always to be inventing new things, either music or visual arts or literature, or whatever. Being creative could also include facing in a creative and constructive way those periods of time where you don't have new artistic (or any other) ideas to materialize; and use those periods creatively, which can include, improving what you already created, helping others who are in a more creative time, or just acquire new knowledge; that's also being creative, even when you feel no immediate desire to create or invent new melodies, or visual art, or any other creative activity. Like keeping the energy moving to avoid blockage of same. Until we become so clean and pure that we won't cease to have the never ending flow of creativity from DCM