Depression As A Stepping Stone (to Soul Growth)

[Joe]

Thanks Heimdallr. I will take notice for further posts. I was re-reading my post. I sure sound like a "pity me" person. What a shame.

Hi Mixtli, arriving late on this thread. It's sounds to me like you are not really a good friend to yourself. It sounds like you criticize yourself a lot, and that it doesn't really help you much. You posted here first and you wanted some help, some advice, maybe some encouragement, some love even? And then you read back over your request for these things and you criticized it. What's the point in that? Are you not entitled to some encouragement, support and love? Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you should not attempt to see your hidden motivations and programs and be honest with yourself about what you see, but try not to fall into the trap of labeling your genuine needs as 'programs', especially when the fulfillment of those needs might be just what you need to get back in the saddle and feeling more motivated again.

 

[Laura]

Yes indeed. Programs are created when our genuine needs are not met in a straightforward way and we have to learn how to maneuver and manipulate to get them fulfulled. So there's a big difference between just being honest about our needs, stating the situation, and the opposite: being covert about it.

Remember:

People--people who need people
Are the luckiest people in the world,
We're children, needing other children
And yet letting our grown-up pride
Hide all the need inside,
Acting more like children
Than children.

Lovers are very special people,
They're the luckiest people
In the world.
With one person, one very special person
A feeling deep in your soul
Says you were half,
Now you're whole.
No more hunger and thirst
But first be a person
Who needs people.

 

[Avi]

How do I change my perspective?

Hello Mixtli,

I want to support what Perceval and Laura have recently stated for it is crucial to understand. As long as one is "stuck" in a low self-image, feeling one does not deserve love or to have their basic needs met, etc, they begin to feel the need to manipulate in order to get those needs met, but then all too often resent the feeling associated with having to resort to manipulation in order to get something wanted and desired rather than receiving it freely and so continue in the cycle of 1) desire/want/need love, 2) refuse to see it inside, 3) demand it from the outside, 4) resent that the "outside" love is never enough to ease the gnawing inside, 5) rinse and repeat ad infinitum ad nauseam. The whole process can be re-routed by acknowledging the inner need and then empathizing that you are not alone in having this need and then seeing that the world around one is ALSO in need and maybe, just maybe, one has what it takes to serve others!?! Surely something of unique value to contribute! :D


But you can only serve others by recognizing that one needs people and maybe, just maybe, they need you too?


When it comes to the programs that kick-in and start wreaking havoc with emotions, thoughts, the whole affect of depression, etc, I think one of the important techniques from the Don Juan books that is not mentioned too much on this forum is that of "not-doing". It doesn't mean "do nothing" - LOL - but rather if you are quick enough to identify your programs starting up, DO the opposite.


So if my predator mind says "you are not good enough, blah, blah, blah" as Laura likes to say, "sez who?" Or, even though I may think guilt or like a fraud, etc, when I know DEEP DOWN inside that is NOT the case, then it is a program for some reason and not-doing is to just go ahead and say to yourself "I AM worth it and deserve it and lovely and love worthy." It is sometimes surprising to see the result in mood and optimism from "not-doing" this way.


After all we are interested in exploring the depths of reality on this forum, via our lives and perceptions and Growth of Knowledge :) so that means what you always tell yourself cannot withstand for it too has to change as one's knowledge and awareness grows. Problem is, many have the change in awareness or life altering events, etc, but the record stays stuck on the same tune! This obviously cannot last if one is to make any real progress.

So perhaps start by acknowledging to yourself how crucial it is to identify what you did, the need to change your perspective and give yourself honest credit for that.

Remember that next time the pity part starts, ask yourself "How many times have you come, uninvited, to the party again, Mr Pity? Well as you can see I have all these lovely thoughts these days about the value and sanctity of human life and that includes mine and so since you can see all these changes in my thoughts and behaviours I am sorry, but feeling sorry is just not gonna work, that kinda blue doesn't even match the decorum of my mind or how I really feel, so grateful and thankful and awestruck to be ALIVE!" Even IF you do not feel that way at the moment! THAT is the not-doing! Eventually it gains a snowball-like effect.

Not sure where that quote came from but Lovers ARE very special people.

:D

 

[theos]

Not sure where that quote came from but Lovers ARE very special people.

My awareness of this song comes from listening to Barbra Streisand. I always thought it was very lovely. Here's a rendition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1189N7mcS1Q&feature=related


Edit=Quotes

 

[Aiming]

@ Herakles: Your post is really simply just great. It's up-lifting and hope inspiring. Thanks for contributing! :)

 

[Mixtli]

Thank you all for your words. I think I see the picture in a clear way now. Yes. It is difficult to distinguish between actual needs and programs. For me it is been kind of difficult because I have chosen to step away from the "9 to 5 type of job" and just being a freelance Graphic designer. Recently I have started a sort of art atelier with a fellow artist and an engraver which looks promising as I have decided that what I most love to do is designing books and art catalogues. But as you can Imagine some projects crystallize and other do not. My wife is fully supportive of this change of jobs as she knows I really love to do this and I am quite good at it. Nevertheless I have to fight some times with a recurring anxiety when I calculate the income of the next month based on current projects. But then one day I realized something: I have never run out of money but i have always fear of this. But It has never happen. I guess it is the predator mind. And With your words you have helped me to clarify this by stating facts that really hit a nerve.
In a way I am trying to do a little experiment with myself. I am saying "Hey I want to do what I want for a living. Lets see if the universe supports this." So far all is going as good as it can get.

Thank you Laura and Herakles.

 

[Mixtli]

I have not felt as bad as I used to at the beginning of the year. I have been trying to have hope and faith in the future but without being blind to objective reality. I have tried to be in the moment but thinking clearly about the future. As one lama said in a conference I attended a month ago. The ride is enough to be amazed and happy. At the end I realised that it was my need of being important, of being recognised for what I do for a living. And when this didn't happen I became frustrated. I wanted to have a nice and comfortable "vie bourgeoise". Being praised and all. Being admired by my students and the career coordinator. Being important as I said. But it was really an effort to try to fill a void that I have inside of not feeling really important or worth. It has been like this all my life. But in the last months I have reached some small places while meditating. Where I have been starting to feel a little bit of joy just laying there being as I am. And I see as I write this idea that it is Who I am rather that What I do. And this is because what I do comes from who I am not the other way. :)

 

[Mixtli]

Some how i feel I sorta killed this thread But Anyway. Lately I have been feeling better. Really better. Trying to to de EE program as much as I can. I have realised in the last couple of months that What really troubles me is the lack of money that is my "button" or one of my buttons. In the beginning of summer I tried to stay calm and just be thankful for the projects that may or may not come. And there were some projects. My wife and I are not lacking money for the moment and actually we are doing pretty good. Had a beautiful baby shower a couple of saturdays ago. So everything is going fine for the moment. Do to some reading of sources and what the Cs had to say I thougt that by this moment we all would be in serious trouble but things are going sort of slowly in my location.

Well just wanted to share that. I really see depression as a means to see the light but actually being in the middle of a depression is quite terrible and obscure. greetings

 

[Laura]

I've noticed a number of posts about depression lately. Perhaps they could be merged with this thread if appropriate?

 

[wattsup]

I've noticed a number of posts about depression lately. Perhaps they could be merged with this thread if appropriate?

Yes I think it would be beneficial as I'm often on what I call small depression or more likely, down's. The longest one I had was for about one month.

 

[Breton]

Some how i feel I sorta killed this thread

Well I doubt it! Really! :)

[quote author=Mixtli]
But Anyway. Lately I have been feeling better. Really better.[/quote]

Thanks for saying. I think a lot of people really wonder what is going on with each other. I feel a little overwhelmed by all the activity on the forum to go asking though... maybe others are like me. And maybe they also like to get an update.

[quote author=Mixtli]
Trying to to de EE program as much as I can.[/quote]

Excellent!

[quote author=Mixtli]
I have realised in the last couple of months that What really troubles me is the lack of money that is my "button" or one of my buttons. In the beginning of summer I tried to stay calm and just be thankful for the projects that may or may not come. And there were some projects. My wife and I are not lacking money for the moment and actually we are doing pretty good. Had a beautiful baby shower a couple of saturdays ago. So everything is going fine for the moment. Do to some reading of sources and what the Cs had to say I thougt that by this moment we all would be in serious trouble but things are going sort of slowly in my location.[/quote]

Today I was just reading how Gurdjieff says we spend quite a bit of time imagining things, and when they are pleasant things, we can really understand why we would imagine them. However when they are unpleasant, then it is really absurd. Yet most of us spend a lot of time just doing that. I don't know if it is totally suitable for your thoughts, but I will share it anyways:

Daydreaming of disagreeable, morbid things is very characteristic of the unbalanced state of the human machine, After all, one can understand daydreaming of a pleasant kind and find logical justification for it. Daydreaming of an unpleasant character is an utter absurdity. And yet many people spend nine tenths of their lives in just such painful daydreams about misfortunes which may overtake them or their family, about illnesses they may contract or sufferings they will have to endure. Imagination and daydreaming are instances of the wrong work of the thinking center.

[quote author=Mixtli]
Well just wanted to share that. I really see depression as a means to see the light but actually being in the middle of a depression is quite terrible and obscure. greetings
[/quote]

It sure is not nice to be in a depression when one is in the middle of it, I agree!

 

[rognaill]

I have had alot of depression lately. Dibilitating, just want to sleep depression that has had very physical effects. I am going through a divorce that has been not as easy as one hopes, I didn't know so many new feelings of despair and anger and sadness were possible until now.

For the past month and half I have been a hermit, only leaving the house to go to work or pick up my kids for my 'visitations' with them. Once the C's said that being a parent was the accelerated track, which I have thought about over the years as I raised my children and always found it to be true. And now with this divorce and having kids considerations to work with along side my own, I find again that statement to be accurate.

I moved into a house with no furnishings other than an old mattress left behind by my last tenants and two wooden chairs. I have an upside down child car seat box as a table, so a sparse and quiet setting to watch my internal dialouge. Which much watching I have been doing and jotting down on paper significant observations, noticing how quickly I jump from thought to thought. The above G quote is important, as I have had many self-pity daydreams, daydreams that do nothing constructive and only harm. Particuliarly daydreams of my ex seeking out others, erasing evidence of my existance in my kids home, alot of internal consideration as these daydreams are fueled by my own feelings of wanting to still have some input into her actions but no longer having any.

Daily it gets better, weekends I am still a basketcase with so much time to dwell on these negative daydreams, that sink me deeper into self-pity and thus the mire of depression. I have and could alot more self medicate the thoughts away, or drink alcohol to numb the brain as both options are attractive to a part of me for the temporary relief, but I also know the Work opportunities before me are invaluble. So instead I am working on detoxing the body more than i have in a long while, but still more can be done in this regard. I bought some 5-HTP yesterday (which knocked me out but feel better after waking, clear thoughts) after reading the dotconnector article and hopefully I keep at this self-repair path enough that I may soon be at a point to DO something instead of being such a reaction machine in regards to adjusting to this new life. A yoga class is next on my list, a weekly stretch and meditation session with others is agreeable. I am still doing EE, but had so much resistance the first couple of weeks after moving out and 100% absorbed in my self-pity, that I had to fight harder than ever to get myself to do it.

Instead of starting a new thread I thought I would put this here (seems relevant), not quite up enough in posts I think to see/post in The Swamp as Laura suggested to me on FB, however if there is a different thread/area to post this let me know.

Thanks to all, sharing is difficult sometimes but am encouraged with each visit to this forum.

-Ronald

 

[Windmill knight]

I have had alot of depression lately. Dibilitating, just want to sleep depression that has had very physical effects. I am going through a divorce that has been not as easy as one hopes, I didn't know so many new feelings of despair and anger and sadness were possible until now.

Hi Ronald. I don't know anyone who has had an easy divorce, so it is only natural you are feeling like that. Remember that this too shall pass. But there are things you can do to make it easier on you.

For the past month and half I have been a hermit, only leaving the house to go to work or pick up my kids for my 'visitations' with them. Once the C's said that being a parent was the accelerated track, which I have thought about over the years as I raised my children and always found it to be true. And now with this divorce and having kids considerations to work with along side my own, I find again that statement to be accurate.

I moved into a house with no furnishings other than an old mattress left behind by my last tenants and two wooden chairs. I have an upside down child car seat box as a table, so a sparse and quiet setting to watch my internal dialouge. Which much watching I have been doing and jotting down on paper significant observations, noticing how quickly I jump from thought to thought. The above G quote is important, as I have had many self-pity daydreams, daydreams that do nothing constructive and only harm. Particuliarly daydreams of my ex seeking out others, erasing evidence of my existance in my kids home, alot of internal consideration as these daydreams are fueled by my own feelings of wanting to still have some input into her actions but no longer having any.

Daily it gets better, weekends I am still a basketcase with so much time to dwell on these negative daydreams, that sink me deeper into self-pity and thus the mire of depression. I have and could alot more self medicate the thoughts away, or drink alcohol to numb the brain as both options are attractive to a part of me for the temporary relief, but I also know the Work opportunities before me are invaluble. So instead I am working on detoxing the body more than i have in a long while, but still more can be done in this regard. I bought some 5-HTP yesterday (which knocked me out but feel better after waking, clear thoughts) after reading the dotconnector article and hopefully I keep at this self-repair path enough that I may soon be at a point to DO something instead of being such a reaction machine in regards to adjusting to this new life. A yoga class is next on my list, a weekly stretch and meditation session with others is agreeable. I am still doing EE, but had so much resistance the first couple of weeks after moving out and 100% absorbed in my self-pity, that I had to fight harder than ever to get myself to do it.

I think you should make an effort to both take care of yourself and get yourself busy. Keep on with the healthy stuff. Go buy some furniture for your house, because that is where you live. Try to make it look nice and comfy in your own way, and keep it clean and tidy. Get some plants and care for them. Bear in mind that this is where your children will live when they are with you.

Get out of the house more often, go for walks or to the cinema, see your family and friends or make new ones. The yoga class sounds like a great idea. If not yoga you can take music classes, do sport or whatever you like to do. All of these little things will send yourself the message that you do care about your own life and well being, so it should make this dark period more bearable. Remember that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and you'll be stronger and wiser when you get there!

Take care.

 

[Nienna]

Rognaili, I agree with everything that Windmill knight said. Every bit of it. And, I would like to add that what is suggested to people who are depressed by some therapists is to go out and do some volunteer work helping others. Go and talk with the elderly and listen to them. Go to a cancer ward and listen and talk to them.

Also, if you haven't, read through this entire thread. I suggest this for you and for wattsup. Then, for both of you, doing the EE regularly and changing you diet. Get off of the evil foods and onto the UltraSimple Diet. Once you can clear the toxins out of your body, it rebalances hormonal chemicals and makes a big difference in your mind and emotions.

Lastly, I would suggest that you read Women Who Run With the Wolves. It is not just for women. There are a lot of gems in there for men, also.

 

[RyanX]

rognaill,

I agree with the advise that Nienna and Windmill Knight have given you as well.

I've been going through a rather lengthy divorce myself which has gone on for the past year and a half. At first the silent home was torture. I had to turn on music as soon as I got home or else I would literally go crazy with depressing, self-pity thoughts like what you described. Things aren't as bad now and I feel like my life is generally moving in a positive direction, but it took a long while before I felt comfortable in my new life.

All I can say is try to stay away from alcohol and the bars as much as possible. Resist the urge to go out and hook up with another woman. Everything I've read says that one should wait at least a year before dating after a divorce and sometimes longer in certain cases. Be gentle on yourself. Bake as many gluten free treats as you desire and share them with your children. Enjoy the time you spend with your children; show them that they can have fun with you and, of course, don't badmouth your ex in front of them even if you suspect she is doing the same.

Hang in there and take care!