Depression As A Stepping Stone (to Soul Growth)

[obyvatel]

There's an important thing to note and notice here within, when you say:

Ideally, we should be able to observe the negative emotion all the way understanding its cause and transmuting it to new useful energy.

Hi Azur,
When I wrote the above quoted statement, I was referring to the final goal of the process of dealing with negative emotions which is discussed in previous posts on this thread. I am curious why you pointed out this statement as being note-worthy.

Make sure that you are not transferring energy from one buffer to another. There is a pitfall there, the same old problem of "look at the left hand, nevermind what the right hand is doing", all of this internal.

If I understand you correctly you are talking about the pitfall of replacing one buffer with another. I agree with the statement. I am curious as to the usage of this statement in this specific context. Did anything in my post suggest that this was happening? TIA

 

[Azur]

There's an important thing to note and notice here within, when you say:

Ideally, we should be able to observe the negative emotion all the way understanding its cause and transmuting it to new useful energy.

Hi Azur,
When I wrote the above quoted statement, I was referring to the final goal of the process of dealing with negative emotions which is discussed in previous posts on this thread. I am curious why you pointed out this statement as being note-worthy.

The "final" goal as you put it, might wholly be some mental construct, i.e. a buffer, another illusion.

My point was that this "final destination" or even achieving resolve through "method" (blind process: physical, meditation, etc) is wholly dependent on your perception/understanding of why you think you need to do this.

That's basically it. The whole thing. Why do you need to do anything?

Make sure that you are not transferring energy from one buffer to another. There is a pitfall there, the same old problem of "look at the left hand, nevermind what the right hand is doing", all of this internal.

If I understand you correctly you are talking about the pitfall of replacing one buffer with another. I agree with the statement. I am curious as to the usage of this statement in this specific context. Did anything in my post suggest that this was happening? TIA

I didn't see anything in your post except that it seemed familiar. I went around and around a LONG time between buffers, thinking i (some i) was the chief Observer, while incongruously knowing the Observer was not in charge.

 

[ana]

If I understand you correctly you are talking about the pitfall of replacing one buffer with another. I agree with the statement. I am curious as to the usage of this statement in this specific context. Did anything in my post suggest that this was happening? TIA

I didn't see anything in your post except that it seemed familiar. I went around and around a LONG time between buffers, thinking i (some i) was the chief Observer, while incongruously knowing the Observer was not in charge.

Maybe when the observer is in charge, nothing has to be changed...

Edit: This reminds me of Dorothy's adventures

 

[obyvatel]

The "final" goal as you put it, might wholly be some mental construct, i.e. a buffer, another illusion.

My point was that this "final destination" or even achieving resolve through "method" (blind process: physical, meditation, etc) is wholly dependent on your perception/understanding of why you think you need to do this.
That's basically it. The whole thing. Why do you need to do anything?

As far as I understand, the main goal is to "wake up" ( and I do not consider this to be a buffer/illusion - quite the opposite) and to do that one needs to save energy. Practical experience bears out the truth in the statements made by Gurdjieff/Mouravieff that negative emotions sap energy leaving little behind by which Work (in the 4th Way context) can be undertaken. So a practical goal is to stop such energy drainage by observing,understanding and eventually resolving and transmuting the negative emotions. There can be various methods towards achieving this aim but I do not understand why you use the term "blind process" in this context.
As regards "why do you need to do anything" - I guess that is because I have an aim (to wake up) and I try to "do" what I can to progress towards that aim. Perhaps there is a state of "being" possible where one does not "need to do" anything but just "be". However, speaking for myself, I am very very far away from attaining such a state of "being" - so I need to make efforts. Otherwise at the end of the day, (paraphrasing Ark) "there is only pity and anger at oneself".

 

[Azur]

As far as I understand, the main goal is to "wake up"

obyvatel,

These opening words to your post, I have to admit stopped me short for some reason. I read the rest of your post, but it was coloured somehow and I'm trying to figure out why.

I'm stuck on this, and hoping you can help me out here.

I dunno, but this just sounds thoroughly as an intellectual exercise to you, the way you put it. I could be totally wrong, apologies in advance if I am.

So a practical goal is to stop such energy drainage by observing,understanding and eventually resolving and transmuting the negative emotions. There can be various methods towards achieving this aim but I do not understand why you use the term "blind process" in this context.

Stopping energy drainage is Number 1! Thing is, it is one of the hardest things to identify, until one: 1) becomes aware that such energy is "see-able" by our senses, 2) start seeing how it flows, 3) understands how body processes (in-body chemical interaction ) overrides/inserts noise into 1. above.

Having said that, this is twice you mention "transmuting negative emotions".

Emotions are things "felt", agreed? But is there more than one source from where emotions "come from", or more specifically are there more than one "feeling" receptors in your senses? Can we sense and identify one source from another? Is there really more than one source of "emotions"?

Most of my personal "negative" emotions (with the exception of a few intuitive situations that provided MUCH richer information as to why "this situation is not good"), have always been internal, body chemistry induced, and were mind chatter sink holes (body chemistry and psychological/perceptual programs).

So, that "energy" that you say needs to be "transduced" is energy already lost into a sinkhole and posthumously mourned over, an after the fact regret of loss, it looks like. "Transmutation" as a method of attempted recall of lost energy.

That "energy" should be and can be marshaled or properly used before it is unconsciously/helplessly GIVEN away into a sink hole.

Catch the energy flow before it is shunted to the local, new, temporary "requestor" of the energy, and you won't lose power to it, and as a happy side effect, you will see how this "requestor" came to be in the first place and wonder at it's boldness to assume that it should be given everything it asks for.

This might not be of any value to you, but it has been my subjective experience.

 

[anart]

I don't personally get the sense that this is an 'intellectual exercise' to obyvatel. Why do you get that impression?

So, that "energy" that you say needs to be "transduced" is energy already lost into a sinkhole and posthumously mourned over, an after the fact regret of loss, it looks like. "Transmutation" as a method of attempted recall of lost energy.

That "energy" should be and can be marshaled or properly used before it is unconsciously/helplessly GIVEN away into a sink hole.

Catch the energy flow before it is shunted to the local, new, temporary "requestor" of the energy, and you won't lose power to it, and as a happy side effect, you will see how this "requestor" came to be in the first place and wonder at it's boldness to assume that it should be given everything it asks for.

I think you might be confusing the issue a bit here, Azur. The transmuting of negative emotional energy has been spoken of in great length and it deals with the period of 'experience' before what you describe as the 'sinkhole'. You seem to have missed the fact that this is possible - that one can experience negative emotions and not have them 'lost into a sinkhole' - that one can utilize that energy to burn, to transmute.

In short, the point is that if one can self-observe and keep it below the neck, then there is no sinkhole. You seem to sort of refer to this with your 'requestor' idea, but in a vaguely convoluted manner. I suppose for clarification, you could describe exactly when you consider the 'sinkhole' to have been reached?

It may sound like a subtle difference, but it is substantial. If all you've ever subjectively experienced is the 'mourning the loss' of the energy into your 'sinkhole', then you've yet to transmute it - you've yet to observe yourself well-enough to stop the negative energy 'below the neck', as it were - to contain the fire for the 'transmutation'. I don't think obyvatel was off in his explanation.

 

[kenlee]

So a practical goal is to stop such energy drainage by observing,understanding and eventually resolving and transmuting the negative emotions. There can be various methods towards achieving this aim but I do not understand why you use the term "blind process" in this context.

Stopping energy drainage is Number 1! Thing is, it is one of the hardest things to identify, until one: 1) becomes aware that such energy is "see-able" by our senses, 2) start seeing how it flows, 3) understands how body processes (in-body chemical interaction ) overrides/inserts noise into 1. above.

Azur, I don’t see how what you say about “stopping energy drainage” is inconsistent with what obyvatel said. The whole point I got from obyvatel's statement, which confirms my own personal observations and experience, is that inner observing, that is, inner separation, is the first step in seeing our negativity and recognizing that it is there. At that point we can begin to begin to make choices as to how to handle the negative emotions and negativity. Many negative emotions are based on false personality, that is they are based on.images we have of ourselves and this negativity is what reinforces and defends this false personality. This inner separation is what separates the wheat from the chaff, separates those real parts of us (that we wish to utilize for our aim) from those destructive, imaginary parts of us that we allow to enslave us and keep us asleep. I would say that, indeed, “observing, understanding" is the first step that must be taken before one can begin anything else.

 

[celtic]

"studies" have shown that it is people who are depressed who have the more realistic view of the world.

This really relates to my story when I first started to search for
answers I was very depress. And the only reason I was so into
the alien business was to dissociate. And everytime I get on
the internet to find answers regarding aliens it would be a
different story. I was so confused it was a different story
every time.

At this point I was so emotionally tide I believed every
thing I heard. I also had a hard time at school and I was just
sick of life period. I would look for answers and nothing hitting
a brick wall. Then one day I found the Cassiopaeans and
my life changed since then.

Not only have my depression had me looking for answers.
It brouth me in a direction of soul searching as well. My
life has changed tremendously. I would say I am a better
person and a big part of it is Laura and Cassiopaeans. So
I would conclude depression is a big key to waking up.

 

[Mixtli]

Hi, you all. I am writing here because I thought this will be the right thread to post this. Lately I have been having an on and off depression. It started last year. I am a teacher at a college and in the middle of the semester realized that I was feeling uncomfortable with the subject I was teaching. Then one day the career's coordinator talked to me about some students being outside the classroom. I am not a very rigid teacher so i would not mind my students being outside, they are graphic design students so they need some air.

This was quite a blow for me. I felt trapped in the school i don't know why really but I started to question the ways of the school and so on. Later I found out that one of the subjects i use to teach in the spring semester was being handled to another professor. I realized then that, as I sort of knew it before, the teaching business is somewhat unstable and I could not trust it as being a regular job not at least in this college where the laboral conditions are not that good. So at the end, I finished with very few hours at evening in the college. I contacted a regular client of mine, a known painter in the city to whom I design art catalogues and books frequently and as we had sort of planned we agreed to start an atelier, an art workshop with a engraver friend of his. This is my "out of school" path. I thought. And so I think it is still. But the depressions have been going on and off since last year. I have been worried about the money. My wife works and actually has been the main force of income in our life together for about two years. This does not bother her. But We are, i hope, having our first baby this year. She actually maybe pregnant as I write this. But depression comes with a big anxiety.

I ve been doing the EE program as I started to feel down and have continue to practice it at least twice a week. When we had our meeting to discuss the art workshop I feel pretty good. But now I feel uncertain of this venture. I guess it will work. We have the "name" of the artist to support us. Also I will be designing at least two books this year and that helps economically to us. But the main thing is that I have asked or at least try to ask the lord/cosmic mind to live in me. To help me overcome this cause depression just gets to me one day and fills me with thoughts of anxiety and inadequacy as a graphic designer (and i am not a bad designer, i am sure), as a food provider, as a husband, and in general. I realized lately that i sort of have a low self esteem, and i have compensated this with letting my job fill this emotional gap so when I don't have much to do i feel as an useless person. But then, when I start to have some projects i tend to try to avoid it. I know, I am a "complex" person. I would love to be easy going. But i guess it is just my nature.

So what I am really asking is what can I do? I have been doing the EE program and it helps. But its sometimes the mornings when I really have to push me to do some work. How can i be more easy going? I just feel stressed and that leads me to fear and then I start to get depressed. I think I overthink all the time. So any way thanks in advance. hmmm and now i sudden realized that I am self pitying me. Like saying. Oh poor little graphic designer you are just have to many things to do. How do I change my perspective?

[Moderator note: Edited to add paragraph spacing]

 

[Marcus-Aurelius]

[quote author=Mixtli]How do I change my perspective?[/quote]
Perhaps by observing yourself and trying everytime to find the real cause of your anxiety, lack of drive, etc. and questionning it.
This is working for me. I noticed that I was a procrastinator: I can endlessly avoid doing an important task by focusing on small, unimportant ones for many fallacious reasons like: "you are too busy, you can't do that", "you have too many things to do", "no valuable result will come out of you doing this work", etc. When reasons are deeply questionned, they just show their real source: most of the time laziness. It's at this time that my will enter into play. So I decide to do this work and set a deadline for myself to finish this work. The deadline seems to keep me working when laziness perform another trial during work.

In my opinion, the decision to do something will always remain yours. Your will should be sufficient to overcome procrastination. These threads should provide you with more infos about procrastination:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7166.msg51282#msg51282

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13898.msg105719#msg105719

 

[Beau]

Hi Mixtli,

I edited your post to add paragraph spaces. They make it easier to read big chunks of text. It is considerate to add those breaks to the reader, so in the future try to remember to add the breaks.

 

[Mixtli]

Thanks Heimdallr. I will take notice for further posts. I was re-reading my post. I sure sound like a "pity me" person. What a shame.

 

[mkrnhr]

Hi Mixtli,
You are engaging in a more artistic and more creative way of living. That's very courageous. At the same time, it is risky and adventurous. It will give you a kind of anguish and stress but IMHO, it is a stress of better quality than the stress you will have from a stable job that you do not like.
EE meditation will help you connect with your creative center, and it could help you in your new life. All you need is to have faith in this creativity you have inside.
At the begginning you will not feel well. Cleaning bad emotions is not an enjoyable experience, it could be compared to vomiting them (sorry for the stupid comparison). But the process, even painful (at least in the beginning), is a good path and it opens some doors to inner world. This anguish you feel, this energy you are cleaning, use it for your purposes. Use it and do not let it using you.

All this could sound a little fantasy, but with faith (in you and the Divine cosmic mind) and perseverance, everything could be OK. You are not alone on this earth and we are all struggling down here :)

Late welcome ;D

 

[henry]

Mixtli, you mention that you are doing the EE. Have you also made changes to your diet? Sugar and other toxins can be an important factor in depression.

Also, have you been reading the Big Five psychology books that we recommend? The breathing, the dietary changes, and the reading (that is, the constant intake of new information) are all part of the complete detox programme that work on many levels.

It seems to me that there are important environmental triggers affecting you right now in the teaching job and the attempt to start off the new business, not to mention starting a family, but your self-esteem and anxiety issues may well be linked to issues that are deeper and go back to your childhood. That's where the psychology books come in. Doing that reading will help you understand where they come from.

You might also back off on doing the round breathing for a few weeks and see if that helps. The pipe breathing will put you in a relaxed and alert state that will be helpful as you make these changes in your life. Perhaps the round breathing is too much, too soon in your case.

 

[Mixtli]

Thanks Galahad.