DMSA for heavy metal detox - how long available?

About 3 weeks ago I completed 6 cycles of DMSA supplements. I got a few headaches, but mostly I felt good during the period. I'm still finishing up the other supplements you take with it.

I'm surprised that I didn't feel "spectacular" or anything. From reading this thread I had the impression that it would be a big boost. Maybe I didn't have much mercury, I was never a fan of shots.
 
3D Student said:
About 3 weeks ago I completed 6 cycles of DMSA supplements. I got a few headaches, but mostly I felt good during the period. I'm still finishing up the other supplements you take with it.

I'm surprised that I didn't feel "spectacular" or anything. From reading this thread I had the impression that it would be a big boost. Maybe I didn't have much mercury, I was never a fan of shots.

Maybe you were not that sensitive to mercury. Sensibility can variate from 1 to 1000000 according to each individual. I'm sure it still helped though. Mercury is just plain evil.
 
Psyche said:
3D Student said:
About 3 weeks ago I completed 6 cycles of DMSA supplements. I got a few headaches, but mostly I felt good during the period. I'm still finishing up the other supplements you take with it.

I'm surprised that I didn't feel "spectacular" or anything. From reading this thread I had the impression that it would be a big boost. Maybe I didn't have much mercury, I was never a fan of shots.

Maybe you were not that sensitive to mercury. Sensibility can variate from 1 to 1000000 according to each individual. I'm sure it still helped though. Mercury is just plain evil.

I think I must be one of those who are not that sensitive to mercury. I did 6 or 7 cycles of DMSA few months ago and I did not have any kind of side effects.

Today I had my last filling removed (on 16). No more mercury in my mouth. :dance:

As soon as my body is adapted to my new diet, I will do a couple of cycles of DMSA to clear the remaining mercury in my body.

Hoping to be Mercury free pretty soon.
 
I did 4 or 5 times DMSA chelation before. Thought of doing little more and checked the DMSA I had , It has Rice Flour. So I will be ordering the one with out Rice Flour. I am on paleo diet for a while and not doing much FIR sauna. I was wondering do we still need to take supplements in the Bakers protocol ?.
 
Here is a site I found, that has a paper by Baker among others, detailing the mercury detox regimen for autistic children.
Keep in mind that this for autistic children, and has their health issues in mind.

Most interesting was the discussion in Appendix B
"Appendix B: Treating gut dysbiosis"
which relates to the treatment of digestive germ imbalance resulting in poor digestion/absorption

_http://www.autismangelspurse.com/MERCURY%20DETOXIFICATION.html_

Some info pulled from the paper as regards the components used (DMSA, vitamins, minerals, etc) follows:

"DMSA should be given in doses of no more than 10 mg/kg/dose and no more than 30 mg/kg/day
with a maximum dose of 500 mg (1500 mg/day maximum). Exceeding these limits has been
associated with a significantly higher incidence of side effects and toxicity. The dosing interval
can be any convenient period, as long as the dose limits are not exceeded. There is no convincing
evidence to suggest that dosing intervals shorter than eight hours provide any inherent benefit,
although a lower dose given more frequently may help to reduce troublesome side effects. In
addition, the subset of children who experience improvement only while receiving DMSA may
benefit from more frequent dosing. Clinical experience supporting 3- or 4-hour dosing intervals is
matched by equally good results with 8-hour dosing. As always, the dosing interval should be
based on the clinical response of the individual patient."

"The treatment period can last from three to five days with a “rest period” of at least as long as the
treatment period. A treatment of three days followed by a rest period of eleven days provides
adequate time for bone marrow suppression to resolve and yet is short enough for rapid removal
of tissue mercury. A three-day treatment period allows the drug to be administered over theweekend (Friday evening through Monday morning), which can be a tremendous convenience.Common side effects of DMSA are nausea, diarrhea, anorexia, flatulence and fatigue. If thesebecome serious enough, reducing the dose will usually make the symptoms tolerable."

"Mineral supplements

Because of poor nutrition (often due to idiosyncratic food preferences), poor absorption, andother, poorly understood factors, autistic children usually have numerous mineral deficiencies.Chief among these deficiencies is zinc. Zinc supplements should be given prior to, during andafter detoxification therapy. Zinc given with DMSA will complex with it and will be more readilyabsorbed as a consequence29,30. Supplementation with 1 – 2 mg/kg/day of zinc is recommended(maximum of 50 mg/day unless guided by laboratory evidence of marked deficiency); more maybe needed and plasma, erythrocyte or platelet zinc levels can be used to guide doses higher thanthis.Autistic children are also often deficient in selenium. Since this mineral is one of the few that cancause a significant toxicity if it is present in excess, caution should be exercised. In the absence oflaboratory evidence of a profound deficiency, selenium supplementation should be limited to 1 –4 mcg/kg/day.Magnesium, molybdenum, manganese, vanadium and chromium are all among the minerals thatare deficient in autistic children; these can be supplied by a multi-mineral supplement. Be surethat this supplement does not contain copper. Copper is the one mineral that autistic childrenoften have in excess and additional supplements will only worsen the excess.

Vitamin supplements

Although the conventional wisdom is that the “average American” receives all the vitamins andnutrients they require in a balanced diet, there are several reasons why this is not true in autisticchildren. First, autistic children rarely eat a balanced diet. They often have an extremely limitednumber of foods they will accept and these rarely encompass all of the major food groups.Additionally, some of the vitamins are anti-oxidants and are depleted in autistic children. Finally,many autistic children are deficient in vitamin B6, vitamin B12, folate and niacin, either from poordiet, poor absorption or both.Vitamin C: An important anti-oxidant, vitamin C can be a great benefit to autistic children. Sinceit is a water-soluble vitamin, it is rare to see true toxicity, although ascorbic acid crystals in theurine (and the potential for renal stones) will result from sustained use of extremely high doses.More commonly (and usually at doses over 2000 mg/day), gastrointestinal distress and diarrheaare the only side effects from vitamin C. Using the buffered preparation or vitamin C esters cansignificantly reduce the incidence of gastrointestinal side effects, as will dividing the dose.Vitamin C supplementation should start at 5 –10 mg/kg/day and gradually increase to tolerance.Some may tolerate and, in fact, need more than 50 mg/kg/day.Vitamin E: Another of the anti-oxidant vitamins, vitamin E has received more press lately thanvitamin C. Since it is fat soluble, it can accumulate if given to excess. Dosing in the range of 2 – 4mg/kg/day (3 – 6 IU/kg/day) is within safe limits. Mixed tocopherols are the preferredpreparation. Many vitamin E supplements are prepared from soybeans and may be a problem inchildren who are sensitive to soy products. Since vitamin E is important in preventing fatty acidoxidation and peroxidation, more may be needed if the child is also receiving essential fatty acidsupplements.Vitamin B6: Vitamin B6 can be found as B6 (pyridoxine), pyridoxal-5-phosphate (P5P), or amixture of the two (rare). Up to 15 mg/kg/day of B6 or 3 mg/kg/day of pyridoxal-5-phosphateshould be used (to a maximum of 500 mg B6 or 100 mg P5P). Be aware that many of thepyridoxal-5-phosphate preparations contain supplemental copper to prevent pyridoxal retinopathyin copper-deficient people. Since autistic children are typically high in copper, be sure to use acopper-free preparation.

Other supplements

Alpha-Lipoic acid: A dithiol fatty acid, alpha-lipoic acid is a native chelating agent but is also apowerful anti-oxidant. It has been extensively used in Germany to treat diabetic neuropathy withexcellent results31. Its anti-oxidant effects may be particularly helpful in autistic children, sincemany of them show clear evidence of anti-oxidant depletion.Start with 1 - 3 mg/kg/day of alpha-lipoic acid and increase to 10 mg/kg/day as tolerated. Alphalipoic acid is a natural product of human cells and so has minimal toxicity; doses of up to 25 mg/kg/day given over more than three years have been studied in adults with no detectabletoxicity32. There is a theoretical concern that alpha-lipoic acid may bind to DMSA and reduce theavailability of both, but this has not been seen clinically. Another concern is that alpha-lipoicacid reduces the removal of methyl-mercury by glutathione, which is a reason why it should begiven with DMSA. There is also evidence that alpha-lipoic acid reduces copper excretion33. SinceDMSA increases copper excretion34 (it has been used to treat the copper intoxication of Wilson’sdisease35), this should not be a problem if alpha-lipoic acid is used with DMSA.A serious concern with alpha-lipoic acid is that it can facilitate the movement of mercury out ofand into the cells. It can be very useful in mobilizing mercury from within the cells and making itavailable for DMSA to chelate. Without the DMSA to “grab” the mercury from lipoic acid, itmay readily enter other tissues.Melatonin: The pineal hormone that helps to regulate the sleep/wake cycle, melatonin is also ananti-oxidant. It is relatively unique among natural anti-oxidants in that it is a terminal antioxidant:once oxidized, it cannot be reduced36. This characteristic means that melatonin cannotparticipate in destructive redox cycling, where an oxidized compound is reduced by oxidizinganother compound. One study has found that neurons are protected from mercury damage byhormonal levels of melatonin37. Melatonin is also concentrated in the mitochondria and protectsthem from oxidative damage.38Aside from its anti-oxidant properties, melatonin helps to regulate the sleep/wake cycle, which isoften seriously deranged in autistic children. Its long-term use in institutionalized children hasestablished its safety39. Doses of up to 0.1 mg/kg at bedtime should be adequate to help with sleepdisturbances. Some clinicians have noted that smaller doses of melatonin (0.3 mg in adults) arejust as effective for sleep and may cause fewer problems with nightmares and/or night terrors. Asustained release form of melatonin is currently under development and should help with thosechildren who awaken four to six hours after the dose of melatonin.Taurine: Taurine is a sulfur-containing amino acid which is important in the production of bilesalts and, therefor, in the native excretion of toxins and absorption of fats and fat-solublesubstances. Many autistic children are deficient in taurine and benefit from a supplementation of250 – 500 mg/day. A maximum dose of 2 grams/day in adults and adult-sized children isrecommended.Glutathione: Glutathione is the keystone of the cellular anti-oxidant system and is often deficientin autistic children. Despite numerous rodent studies that show good systemic absorption of oralglutathione, the two human studies looking at oral absorption have shown it to be nil40.In humans, oral glutathione is readily absorbed by the gut mucosa, repleting its glutathione supply; the mucosa then breaks down the remaining glutathione. This may explain why oral glutathione has been of help to autistic children even when there is apparently no systemic absorption. Given the gut dysfunction found in many autistic children, oral glutathione 250 – 500 mg/day may be of significant help.

Supplements to be wary of

Cysteine/cystine: As sulfur-containing amino acids (cystine is the dimer of cysteine), both canbind to and mobilize mercury. Like alpha-lipoic acid, cysteine and cystine may worsen mercuryintoxication by spreading it to other tissues. Furthermore, cysteine and cystine are excellentculture media for the Candida genus of yeast and can promote or worsen intestinal candidiasis. Inaddition, many autistic children have high blood levels of cysteine.N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC): NAC should not be used initially or by itself with anyonesuspected of having a significant body burden of mercury. Like alpha-lipoic acid, cysteine andcystine, NAC can bind with mercury and carry it across cell membranes. NAC is also a goodculture medium for yeast, like its parent molecule, cysteine. Since many autistic children alsohave high cysteine levels, giving them NAC will only exacerbate this problem.NAC is often recommended because it can rapidly increase intracellular glutathione levels41,42.For that reason, it can be tremendously useful in treating the antioxidant deficiencies seen in somany autistic children. NAC should be used either in conjunction with DMSA or after mercurydetoxification is well under way. In addition, NAC should be used with extreme caution inchildren with elevated cysteine levels.Chlorella/other algae: Often touted as an herbal remedy for mercury poisoning, chlorella has agreat affinity for mercury and other heavy metals. Unfortunately, it will also readily extractmercury from the water it is grown in. Analysis of at least one specimen of commerciallyavailable chlorella has shown high levels of mercury.Other unicellular algae preparations are available on the market, advertised as a remedy for avariety of problems. They should also be viewed with caution, not only because of possiblemercury content but also because of the potential for contamination with toxic dinoflagellates."

"Disclaimers: 1. The therapies outlined in this monograph should not be used except by and under the
supervision of a physician.
2. This is not a “stand-alone” protocol and must be preceded by correction of intestinal
dysbiosis and nutritional deficiencies."
 
Mgse said:
[...]
[Begin quote] p.112
The doses in the table below are geared to a child weighing forty pounds. If you weigh eighty pounds, you can double them; if you weigh 120, you can triple them; and so on.

Nutrient Details Dose Per day
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
DMSA Succimer, Chemet 200mg Three times
....
[End quote]

I read through the thread because I am thinking to do the protocol after my mercury amalgams are removed soon, and I also noticed here that you all have been talking about using the protocol for 40lb child that I read in Baker's book. No one wrote here the dosage they actually used, so I am wondering if anyone raised the amounts they used to something higher than the ones recommended for a 40lb child?

Since I am 168 lbs, I could quadruple all the amounts stated for DMSA as well as all the supplements that are stated in Baker's book.

I.e. I could take 800 mg 3 x per day of DMSA during the 3 days of the 14 day cycle, and 400 mg of Alpha lipoic acid 3 x per day every day of the 14 day cycle and so on? But it would likely be overkill. (And as noted, very expensive: the DMSA alone would cost me over 500 euros for 6 cycles!)

However it would seem from all of your experience that this is not really necessary? It seems most, if not all, felt they got good detoxing effects with what would essentially be about one quarter (for someone of my weight) of the dosages Baker is talking about in his book?


Added:
Also I noted Psyche's comment, but I thought to just double check, and I am also wondering about the other supplement amounts - maybe someone kept the DMSA at the children's level but changed the supplement amounts?

Yeah, we decided to keep the children's protocol because a number of people were having symptoms with that dose. Then after the cycles went by, we started to see good results with those doses. So if you have monetary problems and want to stay on the safe side, you can use the children's protocol.
 
Breton said:
...maybe someone kept the DMSA at the children's level but changed the supplement amounts?

Everybody reacts differently, but yes, DMSA can trigger some pretty psyched-up die-off reactions. On the other hand, you have been on the diet for a long time. I think it is a good idea to increase the dose of vitamin C and take it in liposomal form. If you want to experiment, you could try making other liposomal solutions. For instance, you can get a hold of alpha lipoic acid in powder.

I think the doses are pretty good and you could take more of NAC and taurine. With zinc, that is the recommended dose though. Same with alpha lipoic acid, although some people take up to 600mg per day. Vitamin E could be 1000 - 1200 IU.

For economic reasons, I think the DMSA dose is good enough. It is also a dose that has not proved problematic for "home experimentation."
 
3D Student said:
One thing I didn't realize is that my bottle from dmsachelation.com has rice flour in it. I decided to take it because I have waited over a year to do this, putting off the USD and anti-candida diets. So I took it, not wanting to delay any longer, and it was one of my aims.

But I'm wondering in light of the recent session about eating habits if that was such a good idea. I noticed a slight inflammatory burning sensation in my arms on one dose from the rice. I guess I could sell it or give it away online and buy one without rice flour. The price was also a consideration in taking it.

I'm kinda in the same boat too and was wondering about the Rice Flour. The problem I have is I paid a lot of money for this bottle (DMSA Synergy - 320caps for $240) and don't know what I should do. Will the small amount of rice flour have enough gluten to make me start all over in regards to gluten detox? Or will my body handle it. I think it will but not sure... (I've been gluten free from wheat for a couple of years, then rice free. I had rice after half a year didn't really feel bad or noticeable reactions but stopped eating it due to it being a grain). Also I don't know anyone else that will use it and it will expire in 2014 and was planning to start soon.

seek10 said:
I did 4 or 5 times DMSA chelation before. Thought of doing little more and checked the DMSA I had , It has Rice Flour. So I will be ordering the one with out Rice Flour. I am on paleo diet for a while and not doing much FIR sauna. I was wondering do we still need to take supplements in the Bakers protocol ?.

Which DMSA did you get that doesn't have rice flour?
 
fabric said:
seek10 said:
I did 4 or 5 times DMSA chelation before. Thought of doing little more and checked the DMSA I had , It has Rice Flour. So I will be ordering the one with out Rice Flour. I am on paleo diet for a while and not doing much FIR sauna. I was wondering do we still need to take supplements in the Bakers protocol ?.

Which DMSA did you get that doesn't have rice flour?

I'm pretty sure the one by New Roots does not have rice flour. You can find it in some of your better Canadian health food stores. This is it here - http://www.nationalnutrition.ca/detail.aspx?ID=1486
 
fabric said:
I'm kinda in the same boat too and was wondering about the Rice Flour. The problem I have is I paid a lot of money for this bottle (DMSA Synergy - 320caps for $240) and don't know what I should do.

I just open the caps and pour the contents into my mouth. The taste isn't too strong, so it's perfectly doable.
 
dugdeep said:
I'm pretty sure the one by New Roots does not have rice flour. You can find it in some of your better Canadian health food stores. This is it here - http://www.nationalnutrition.ca/detail.aspx?ID=1486

Thanks for the tip!

Psalehesost said:
I just open the caps and pour the contents into my mouth. The taste isn't too strong, so it's perfectly doable.

Great idea :D It didn't even cross my mind - I think I'll give that a shot and see how it goes.
 
fabric said:
Psalehesost said:
I just open the caps and pour the contents into my mouth. The taste isn't too strong, so it's perfectly doable.

Great idea :D It didn't even cross my mind - I think I'll give that a shot and see how it goes.

This won't avoid the rice flour, which is mixed in with the DMSA (probably used as an alternative to magnesium stearate) in the capsule. If you haven't opened the bottle yet, could you possibly return it and get one without rice flour? Alternatively, could you sell it on ebay or something to get one without rice flour?

Does the bottle say gluten free? Maybe they processed the rice flour in a way to remove the gluten, if it says gluten free.
 
Hi Foxx,

It says:
"This product does not contain wheat, yeast, soy protein, gluten, eggs, dairy, corn, artificial colours, flavours, sugars or preservatives."

I figured that pouring out the contents would have worked since the added ingredients (microcrystalline cellulose and rice flour) would normally be part of the gel cap and not mixed in with it since that's what they would add to aid in the production of the caps (like mag stearate) but I could be wrong.

The website states:

7. What are the ingredients?
Each capsule contains 100 mg of DMSA, 200 mg ascorbic acid, 50 mg glycine. The capsule is vegetarian. There are NO animal by-products. Non-vegitarian capsules such as thoses used in Chemet contain bovine (cow) or porcine (pig) by-products. Ascorbic Acid improves the effectiveness of DMSA and Glycine is know to help your body manufacture Glutathione (necessary for proper chelation.)

Just realized I can send them an email and find out for sure ;)
 
fabric said:
I figured that pouring out the contents would have worked since the added ingredients (microcrystalline cellulose and rice flour) would normally be part of the gel cap and not mixed in with it since that's what they would add to aid in the production of the caps (like mag stearate) but I could be wrong.

I very well could be wrong on this one, but I think they usually add the rice flour in with the ingredients within the capsules as a lubricant or whatever they use it for, so dumping out the contents wouldn't avoid the rice flour. I don't think the capsule "shells" would be made out of rice flour--but again, I could be wrong.
 
Foxx said:
fabric said:
I figured that pouring out the contents would have worked since the added ingredients (microcrystalline cellulose and rice flour) would normally be part of the gel cap and not mixed in with it since that's what they would add to aid in the production of the caps (like mag stearate) but I could be wrong.

I very well could be wrong on this one, but I think they usually add the rice flour in with the ingredients within the capsules as a lubricant or whatever they use it for, so dumping out the contents wouldn't avoid the rice flour. I don't think the capsule "shells" would be made out of rice flour--but again, I could be wrong.

I think that you're right. I had thought that rice flour was in there as a kind of filler in the capsule. I don't think it's an alternative to magnesium stearate, though, since MS is a lubricant that actually binds to the nutrients in the capsules to make it flow through the machines better and lower measurement errors. I can't see rice flour doing this (could be wrong, of course).

Also, fabric, note that magnesium stearate is not part of the capsule - it's mixed in with the powders inside the capsules.
 

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