DMSA for heavy metal detox - how long available?

[birger]

What do you think of taking MSM pills to get sulfur?
MSM (methyl-sulfonoyl-methan) is related to DMSO (dimethylsulfoxid) in some way.

Could this be a way of getting sulfur to help detox mercury etc.

 

[Mikey]

It sounds like iodine + sulfur is a good combination for heavy metal detox. Iodine as a mobilizer and sulfur as a chelator.

What do you think of taking MSM pills to get sulfur?
MSM (methyl-sulfonoyl-methan) is related to DMSO (dimethylsulfoxid) in some way.

Could this be a way of getting sulfur to help detox mercury etc.

I think this is not as simple as it seems and needs some good research before it is attempted, and it could even be dangerous. For all we know, it could be that with elemental Iodine and Sulfur you're just dissolving mercury from storage and bringing it back into the blood stream in a very toxic form, thereby overloading and poisoning your detox organs and other areas.

For example, Iodine reacts with Mercury to create the very toxic salt Mercury(I)-Iodide. Sulfur reacts with Mercury to create the very toxic compound Mercury Sulfide. You don't want that in your body! It seems that elemental Mercury is less toxic than some of its compounds!

I think one should really aim for a known chelator like DMSA and stick to documented and experimentally proven protocols. The point of chelation is not to willy-nilly bring metals back into circulation, but in such a way that the reaction result is water soluble, stable and non-toxic, so that the resulting compound can be safely and easily excreted via the liver, kidneys or skin (sauna) for example.

For this reason, before taking Iodine (or Sulfur) supplements, one should first check mercury levels.

Chelation therapy is a delicate process and should not be undertaken without understanding its exact mechanism, or without the supervision of a health professional!

 

[mk1154]

Has anyone tried DMSA that has candida/yeast problems? I have spent the last 4 months trying to eradicate a fungal overgrowth in my gut and have read some testimonals on curezone that DMSA can make candida symptoms worse. Supposedly this is due to the distribution of mercury/HM into the body where the candida can flourish on it once again. This makes me really hesitant to try this, but I also feel that HM detox is necessary to moving forward... sort of a catch 22.

Other people have reported less candida flare up issues with using DPMS. I haven't seen that mentioned much on the forums here.

Re: sulfur
I haven't read this entire thread yet, but noticed the last few replies discussing consuming more sulfur foods. As I understand it this in contrary to what Andew Cutler recommends:

Supplementary cysteine, glutathione, or a "high sulfur" diet, or chlorella should not be used. All of these "therapies" will be very harmful to you.

Although I'm not clear exactly if that is for everyone or not. He also mentions how sulfur is specifically bad if you have a candida infection.

Yeast is a common complication of mercury. A low sulfur diet may suppress yeast. A high sulfur diet will feed it, as will one high in sugar and carbohydrates. (pg 105)

Re: re-mineralizing. I've seen the general recommendation when doing chelation to remineralize for several days after you do a round of DMSA. I wanted to add what Cutler has to say about this:

The idea that essential minerals are depleted by chelation and require routine replacement v·ia intravenous therapy is not correct. It is in effect a superstition believed among some in the "alternative medicine" community. This has been demonstrated both by direct measurements of blood levels and by mass balance calculations. DMPS and DMSA do not significantly alter the body's inventory of nontoxic materials under the conditions of use discussed in this book. Lipoic acid actually INCREASES the body's inventory of zinc and copper, and the chelation protocols as given here account for that fact. Oral supplementation of certain minerals is helpful in altering the body's metabolism in favorable ways or making up for common deficits - but they are not being administered to make up for materials removed by chelation and an increase in urinary excretion of a mineral during chelation is not an indicator it should be supplemented or injected. (pg 90)

I'm open to any suggestions on how to proceed! I'm pretty concerned about upsetting the balance I've worked so long to achieve.

 

[Mikey]

Re: sulfur
I haven't read this entire thread yet, but noticed the last few replies discussing consuming more sulfur foods. As I understand it this in contrary to what Andew Cutler recommends:

Supplementary cysteine, glutathione, or a "high sulfur" diet, or chlorella should not be used. All of these "therapies" will be very harmful to you.

See my last post above for a possible explanation. Does Andew Cutler give the reasons for this advice?

 

[birger]

It sounds like iodine + sulfur is a good combination for heavy metal detox. Iodine as a mobilizer and sulfur as a chelator.

What do you think of taking MSM pills to get sulfur?
MSM (methyl-sulfonoyl-methan) is related to DMSO (dimethylsulfoxid) in some way.

Could this be a way of getting sulfur to help detox mercury etc.

I think this is not as simple as it seems and needs some good research before it is attempted, and it could even be dangerous. For all we know, it could be that with elemental Iodine and Sulfur you're just dissolving mercury from storage and bringing it back into the blood stream in a very toxic form, thereby overloading and poisoning your detox organs and other areas.

For example, Iodine reacts with Mercury to create the very toxic salt Mercury(I)-Iodide. Sulfur reacts with Mercury to create the very toxic compound Mercury Sulfide. You don't want that in your body! It seems that elemental Mercury is less toxic than some of its compounds!

I think one should really aim for a known chelator like DMSA and stick to documented and experimentally proven protocols. The point of chelation is not to willy-nilly bring metals back into circulation, but in such a way that the reaction result is water soluble, stable and non-toxic, so that the resulting compound can be safely and easily excreted via the liver, kidneys or skin (sauna) for example.

For this reason, before taking Iodine (or Sulfur) supplements, one should first check mercury levels.

Chelation therapy is a delicate process and should not be undertaken without understanding its exact mechanism, or without the supervision of a health professional!

As you write one should be cautious.

Personally, I have taken Lugols solution for some weeks, with some good results and some bad results.
I guess the bad results are due to detoxing too much, so that I may have accumulated detox "garbage" in my arm and shoulder, giving a great deal of discomfort.
This detox process started only after 3-4 weeks of Lugols, so I would recommend not to raise the dose too much, before the detox reactions starts, so that it is not too much to handle.

You can find some forums with discussion about taking MSM and Iodione at the same time, however it would probably be best not to mix it.

 

[mk1154]

I couldn't find any specific explanation for the mechanism as to WHY, just a lot of references to people that are sensitive to high sulfur foods (not everyone). The only thing significant I could find was this graph (attached). Possibly very dependent on the person.

 

[Gaby]

Andrew Cutler is often cited when it comes to chelation, however, his warnings doesn't necessarily mirror the experience of many members who tried chelation protocols nor the research available.

It is true that cysteine can act as a culture media for candida, but cysteine-containing supplements are not really an issue for people who had spent some time healing their gut through an anti-inflammatory diet, cutting down on carbs. Others did nystatin and natural anti-candida protocols. In general, heavy metal chelation is discouraged if you haven't done anything to help heal your gut. A lot of us worked with the diet for an year before trying heavy metal chelation protocols. That might explain the diverging experiences in regards to Cutler's warnings.

Here is a well tried and referenced guide for heavy metal chelation:

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/PhysicianReference7.pdf

 

[Gaby]

It is true that cysteine can act as a culture media for candida, but cysteine-containing supplements are not really an issue for people who had spent some time healing their gut through an anti-inflammatory diet, cutting down on carbs.

On a related note, there is a study which shows that NAC actually inhibits candida:

_http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajidm/2/5/5/

N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is used in the treatment of chronic bronchitis that attributed to its mucus dissolving properties. Its ability to reduce biofilm formed by different types of bacteria was proven previously in many studies. Therefore we examined its effect on C. albicans biofilms by testing its effect alone and in combination with ketoconazole using Tissue culture plate assay method (TCP). NAC effects on C. albicans morphology and the texture of biofilms were determined using Scanning electron microscope (SEM). It was found that the inhibitory effect of NAC was concentration dependent. NAC reduced C. albicans adherence by ≥32.8% while ketoconazole reduced adherence by ≥25% in comparison to control. Also, it showed higher disruptive effect (50-95%) than ketoconazole (22-80.7%) on mature biofilms. Using NAC and ketoconazole in combination, a significant inhibitory effect (P<0.01) on both adherence and mature biofilms (54-100%) was seen. NAC reduced the amount of biofilm mass in all tested Candida in concentrations at which their growth was not affected. NAC and ketoconazole combinations showed complete eradication to mature biofilms formed in most of the tested strains. NAC can inhibit C. albicans growth, inhibit dimorphism, which is an important step in biofilm formation, and change the texture of the formed biofilms, what makes NAC an interesting agent to be used as an inhibitor for biofilm formation by C. albicans.

NAC rocks :)

Full study available at the link above. So it seems that NAC is good at reducing all biofilms, including candida ones.

 

[Stellaria_graminea]

Is DMSA available from any european site?

 

[Adaryn]

Is DMSA available from any european site?

The website supersmart . com sells DMSA to European customers.

 

[anartist]

Chris Masterjohn has 4 interesting videos on how to use zinc, from supplementation to detox, appropriate he says for those who don't need to or want to do a serious (i.e. DMSA, EDTA) detox. All his videos are about 5 minutes long, so it doesn't take a lot of time to watch, includes references in the notes. numbers are his ordering of the videos.
using zinc to detox
4

determining zinc status
1

how to supplement with zinc
2

zinc picolinate
3

very interesting. I am considering using this method as a safe, somewhat effective detox along with my nightly activated charcoal and chlorella, though not at the same time.

 

[SummerLite]

I posted this in the wrong thread I just realized, so thought I'd bring it over here where I intended it to be.

Hello! I'm so excited as I'll finally begin removing 5 silver fillings starting in a month. I have my sauna blanket and I'm gathering all information. I'm at page 20 of this thread so far. My one concern is the yeast problem. Having symptoms in the last few weeks I've started adjusting my diet and taking Walnut tincture and Grape seed oil on an empty stomach. I'm sure my mercury level is high as I started getting silver fillings at the age of 6 and all that have been replaced since then haven't been with precautions. I also worked in a dental office and prepared mercury fillings when I was pregnant with my son! Years later I worked in another office that did mercury fillings.

I read all the candida info here a few years back but had forgotten mercury can cause candida over growth which explains my on going problem with flare ups which I blamed on eating sugar mainly.

So before doing the DMSA i want to make sure the candida is in check. I may ask the dentist, who specializes in mercury removal, if he can write me a prescription for Nystatin and after completion start the DMSA then.

I'm also wondering if there is another form of mercury removal I can do if I decide to hold off on the DMSA for awhile. Surely it won't be as affective but I'd like to get going on this. I read a few pages back that a powdered Zeolite was affective but then found this article which says that isn't correct.
Zeolite detox myths busted: In lab tests, zeolites do NOT bind with aluminum, lead, uranium, mercury or cadmium... only CESIUM - NaturalNews.com
So, if anyone has suggestions I'm all ears. Also I've been mainly gluten free for several years, HOWEVER...I've been buying the gluten free products that contain rice flour... there has been talk here that contains gluten, . I haven't done any research on this but thought I'd mention it. Thanks

I'll be buying Baker's book and I was wondering if any new information, books etc. have come up in recent years that are recommended as this thread is quite old.

Here is Gaby's response for me. It sounds like over the years a few milder methods have been utilized for Gaby anyway. I'm a bit leery now of the DMSA as I don't want to feel horrible! I can imagine it would be very intense. Not all have had that experience but I bet it would be rough for me. Taking a few pills before bed sounds interesting and I'll have a look at EDTA and zeolite. Thanks Gaby. Also I'll look at the zinc videos above.

I've used zeolite, activated charcoal and other clays and the effect that I felt was of a mild detox, at least a bearable one. I've used low doses of DMSA (one or two caps before going to bed) without seemingly any bad effects as well. EDTA is also better tolerated than DMSA, in my experience.

Every time I did a detox like that, I felt I had less brain fog and more brain energy. But I hold the record of having among the highest mercury levels in the urine after a DMSA + EDTA challenge. Back in the day, I had +26 mercury fillings and I also have detox genetic issues.

Years ago, I did cycles of DMSA 3 days a week and it made feel horrible. Afterwards I'll have cognitive improvements, even my writing was neater after taking DMSA.

IV infusions of glutathione and vitamin C plus other stuff (Myers cocktail) brought my mercury levels to it's lowest levels.

So for me it has a been a combination of different things, although I believe that you don't have to go the IV route if you have oral options available.

Nystatin complemented with natural measures should help with the candida problem. For me, it always helped when I took it.

 

[hlat]

I think I did 6 cycles of DMSA detox, and I didn't notice any terrible side effects. I had mercury fillings removed at that time. Maybe you could try 1 DMSA cycle to see how you do?

 

[Pat]

I think I did 6 cycles of DMSA detox, and I didn't notice any terrible side effects. I had mercury fillings removed at that time. Maybe you could try 1 DMSA cycle to see how you do?

Hello hlat, where would you say one can buy DMSA now? thank you.

 

[zak]

The website supersmart . com sells DMSA to European customers.

Hello Pat, Adaryn's link is always fonctional.