Do-it-yourself liposomal nutrients

[richard96816]

I've had mine up to 6 - 8 weeks in the fridge and it seemed to be okay. It doesn't smell and tastes just like when I first made it and it doesn't separate. I think it can prob last even longer as long its in the fridge. I also keep it in a dark amber bottle tightly sealed so that could be a factor.

Not surprised your Lipo C stays fresh in the fridge a long time. Vitamin C is a natural preservative. That's why 100% encapsulation is a bad idea. Having the Lipos surrounded by a good, healthy, preservative is a good thing.

 

[richard96816]

What gives me greater concern regarding making liposomal Vitamin C with an ultrasonic cleaner are the statements from Mercola's office and other prominent voices such as the Vitamin C Foundation and Livon Labs as provided in the links.

It's not surprising seeing the folks selling commercial Lipo C making up stories about their competition.

Read Brooks Bradley's accounts and testing on homemade Lipo C. Checking everything with an Electron Microscope and a number of other techniques.

Try his baking soda test in the proper way: Before encapsulating with liposomes and after. If you've got encapsulating lipos there should be a noticeable difference. And their is. (Not that you should be using Ascorbic Acid for Lipo C that you intend to ingest. Wrong pH! You need Sodium Ascorbate for that.)

It's very easy to tell that the Livon guys are making things up if you parse their words carefully. All the noise about oxygen, etc. Homemade Lipos have many advantages. Not the least of which is that they're fresh and cheap. No need for preservatives. No need for storage or shipping. The 'pros' are at a real disadvantage. So they pump themselves up with propaganda.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Hi richard96816,

I see you have just joined, so I want to welcome you to the forum.

We suggest that new forum members introduce themselves in the Newbies section. Nothing personal, just a little bit about yourself and how you found the forum. If you are unsure of what to write, take a look at how others on the board have done it. :)

 

[richard96816]

Hi richard96816,

I see you have just joined, so I want to welcome you to the forum.

We suggest that new forum members introduce themselves in the Newbies section. Nothing personal, just a little bit about yourself and how you found the forum. If you are unsure of what to write, take a look at how others on the board have done it. :)

Found this discussion in a search of liposomal stuff. You're newbie section really doesn't look like my cup of tea. I'm not real fond of Facebook either.

People like Linus Pauling, Dr. Thomas Levy and Brooks Bradley are my current heros. Been an advocate of Vitamin C use for over 30 years. Still much to learn.

Here are a few points I've learned through my research into homemade Lipo C ...

1.) Use Sodium Ascorbate (same as they use for intravenous C.) Ascorbic Acid is (surprise) ACID. Doesn't belong in your blood or next to your cells were Liposomal goes. Sodium Ascorbate also tastes better.

2.) Don't pour your mix directly into the ultrasonic cleaner's stainless steel tank. Use a glass beaker (or some other glass container in the cleaner's basket. Glass is easier to clean and not poisonous to your system as stainless steel can be. (A good ultrasonic cleaner slowly etches it's metal tank. You really don't want those tank bits in your Lipo soup.)

3.) You can test the power of your ultrasonic cleaner with the aluminum foil test. There are videos on youtube explaining it.

4.) Ignore the hype about commercial Lipo C. They gain some and they lose some. Homemade, done carefully, is fresh and clean and requires no preservatives. The 'pros' won't tell you how they make theirs, because they do it the same way we do. They want you to think they've got some deep and wonderful secret that justifies their high prices.

5.) We don't make liposomes. They're a freak of nature. They make themselves. We just provide the necessary conditions.

Sorry for any repetition.

Richard

 

[Beau]

Hi richard96816,

I see you have just joined, so I want to welcome you to the forum.

We suggest that new forum members introduce themselves in the Newbies section. Nothing personal, just a little bit about yourself and how you found the forum. If you are unsure of what to write, take a look at how others on the board have done it. :)

Found this discussion in a search of liposomal stuff. You're newbie section really doesn't look like my cup of tea. I'm not real fond of Facebook either.

Hi Richard,

It's only common courtesy to introduce yourself when entering someone's home. You can look at this forum much the same way. I'm not sure what about doing that is "not your cup of tea", but if you think about it like I've explained above, you would see that your response to Zadius Sky's common request to new members is rather rude. You don't have to be fond of Facebook to do that either.

 

[jimme]

What gives me greater concern regarding making liposomal Vitamin C with an ultrasonic cleaner are the statements from Mercola's office and other prominent voices such as the Vitamin C Foundation and Livon Labs as provided in the links.

It's not surprising seeing the folks selling commercial Lipo C making up stories about their competition.

Read Brooks Bradley's accounts and testing on homemade Lipo C. Checking everything with an Electron Microscope and a number of other techniques.

Try his baking soda test in the proper way: Before encapsulating with liposomes and after. If you've got encapsulating lipos there should be a noticeable difference. And their is. (Not that you should be using Ascorbic Acid for Lipo C that you intend to ingest. Wrong pH! You need Sodium Ascorbate for that.)

It's very easy to tell that the Livon guys are making things up if you parse their words carefully. All the noise about oxygen, etc. Homemade Lipos have many advantages. Not the least of which is that they're fresh and cheap. No need for preservatives. No need for storage or shipping. The 'pros' are at a real disadvantage. So they pump themselves up with propaganda.

Hi Richard, I would like to know how many grams of Vitamin C you can take using your mixture and method before reaching bowel tolerance.

 

[richard96816]

...

Hi Richard,

It's only common courtesy to introduce yourself when entering someone's home. You can look at this forum much the same way. I'm not sure what about doing that is "not your cup of tea", but if you think about it like I've explained above, you would see that your response to Zadius Sky's common request to new members is rather rude. You don't have to be fond of Facebook to do that either.

My apologies if I've breached some protocols. The interface does not seem to support such protocols in my estimation. And the contents of one's posts seem much more important anyway.

This forum appears, on the surface, to be like many others around the net, that provides a way for folks to communicate on topics that interest them. I liked what I saw here so thought I would attempt to contribute. I have limited time for these interests at the moment. And prefer to spend more of it doing research than socializing. My credentials are not specific to this area, so I'm usually prepared to reference and defer to the writings of others more involved than I.

I never intended any such rudeness as you suggest. Rude is the medical establishment suppressing investigation and use of Vitamin C, and the massive concomitant loss of life it causes. My father would likely still be alive if I had studied more of the writings of Linus Pauling earlier than I did. Ideas that should be common knowledge and common medical practice, but are not.

Richard

 

[richard96816]

What gives me greater concern regarding making liposomal Vitamin C with an ultrasonic cleaner are the statements from Mercola's office and other prominent voices such as the Vitamin C Foundation and Livon Labs as provided in the links.

It's not surprising seeing the folks selling commercial Lipo C making up stories about their competition.

Read Brooks Bradley's accounts and testing on homemade Lipo C. Checking everything with an Electron Microscope and a number of other techniques.

Try his baking soda test in the proper way: Before encapsulating with liposomes and after. If you've got encapsulating lipos there should be a noticeable difference. And their is. (Not that you should be using Ascorbic Acid for Lipo C that you intend to ingest. Wrong pH! You need Sodium Ascorbate for that.)

It's very easy to tell that the Livon guys are making things up if you parse their words carefully. All the noise about oxygen, etc. Homemade Lipos have many advantages. Not the least of which is that they're fresh and cheap. No need for preservatives. No need for storage or shipping. The 'pros' are at a real disadvantage. So they pump themselves up with propaganda.

Hi Richard, I would like to know how many grams of Vitamin C you can take using your mixture and method before reaching bowel tolerance.

Thanks for the query.

I'm not comfortable with flirting with bowel tolerance. And I'm not comfortable with ingesting that much Lecithin. It seems like a valuable tool when you're sick. And perhaps as a lower maintenance level tool. But there seems to be less science surrounding Lecithin consumption than I'm comfortable with. Especially regarding large doses.

Three or four grams of C per day is good for now.

Richard

 

[richard96816]

Something I forgot to mention regarding testing Lipo C through bowel tolerance ...

Lecithin in larger doses is reported to cause diarrhea too.

That seems to make bowel tolerance a non-starter as a means of testing.

 

[jimme]

Something I forgot to mention regarding testing Lipo C through bowel tolerance ...

Lecithin in larger doses is reported to cause diarrhea too.

That seems to make bowel tolerance a non-starter as a means of testing.

Good point on the lecithin, but testing a larger dose, without Vitamin C, will quickly show you if lecithin alone is affecting bowel tolerance. I don't remember seeing anyone here describe bowel issues at 1 or 2 tablespoons of lecithin.

If someone is only interested in taking 3 or 4 grams of Vitamin C per day, then there is no need to look into liposomal Vitamin C. Mostly I am interested in replicating high dose intravenous Vitamin C.

 

[jimme]

Something I forgot to mention regarding testing Lipo C through bowel tolerance ...

Lecithin in larger doses is reported to cause diarrhea too.

That seems to make bowel tolerance a non-starter as a means of testing.

Ok Richard, I did some more investigating on lecithin. Indeed, you are correct that doses similar to those recommended here, usually 3 tablespoons, can cause diarrhea.

"Doses of over 25 grams per day of lecithin can cause negative side effects, including nausea, stomach upset, diarrhea, and vomiting."

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-lecithin.htm

It appears to be the same case in both soy and sunflower lecithin.

"In the case of higher doses, it may cause side effects such as headaches, nausea, stomach problems, dizziness, diarrhea and vomiting."

http://www.inrfood.com/ingredients/56604

The product that I used for testing was Swanson sunflower lecithin powder which is about 7.5 grams per tablespoon.

I performed a total of 3 tests.

1) 3 tablespoons of lecithin and 10 grams of ascorbic acid.
2) 3 tablespoons of lecithin and 10 grams of sodium ascorbate.
3) 9 tablespoons of lecithin and 10 grams of sodium ascorbate (divided in 3 batches, taken all at once).

And yes I experienced profound nausea during the last test. I felt absolutely toxic but wasn't sure why at the time. It appears now this was due to the qualities of lecithin, rather than any detox or Herxheimer reaction.

The usual 3 tablespoons of lecithin recommended throughout this thread for making lipo C would bring anyone close to the 25 gram level indicated for potentially causing diarrhea and other side effects.

In short, you have successfully taken a grenade to my bowel tolerance test. The test can't be used with any degree of accuracy, since even doses of lecithin below 25 grams would likely contribute to increased bowel activity.

So we still have many unanswered questions on lipo C, but my errant bowel tolerance test isn't one of them.

The central question remains – how to make a 20 or 30 gram batch of lipo C, and replicate the higher doses used for intravenous Vitamin C.

Thanks very much for your contribution here Richard.

 

[Richs]

I have been making batches of Liposomal C using 3 level tablespoons of Sodium Ascorbate into a mixture of 3 scoops of Lecithin. Since each tablespoon of Ascorbate is about 15 grams, the total batch product is at about 45 grams of Vitamin C. I take this in small doses usually about 4-5 time a day and the bottle lasts for around 3 days on average. This means I am getting around 15 grams of Liposomal C every day without any side effects noted at all.

Since it has been reported in the literature that testing has shown an uptake of 5 grams of Liposomal C is actually as effective in cellular absortion as 50 grams of intraveinous Vitamin C, the intake of 15 grams of Liposomal C is about the equivalent of 150 grams of intraveinous Vitamin C.

Mind you, I am not using this as a maintainance dose but as therapy for heart disease. the protocol I am using was developed and promoted by Dr. Dan Cobb. A video can be had at -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P32ipm6PHNI

 

[jimme]

I have been making batches of Liposomal C using 3 level tablespoons of Sodium Ascorbate into a mixture of 3 scoops of Lecithin. Since each tablespoon of Ascorbate is about 15 grams, the total batch product is at about 45 grams of Vitamin C. I take this in small doses usually about 4-5 time a day and the bottle lasts for around 3 days on average. This means I am getting around 15 grams of Liposomal C every day without any side effects noted at all.

Since it has been reported in the literature that testing has shown an uptake of 5 grams of Liposomal C is actually as effective in cellular absortion as 50 grams of intraveinous Vitamin C, the intake of 15 grams of Liposomal C is about the equivalent of 150 grams of intraveinous Vitamin C.

Mind you, I am not using this as a maintainance dose but as therapy for heart disease. the protocol I am using was developed and promoted by Dr. Dan Cobb. A video can be had at -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P32ipm6PHNI

Hi, Richard S. Try to double your dose once taking 8 to 10 grams at one time, and let me know if you reach bowel tolerance. If you pass the test, I am interested in knowing the name, model number, and wattage for the ultrasonic cleaner you are using. If liposomal Vitamin C can be made using this technology, I suspect the problem myself and others might be having is using a cheaper low wattage machine. For example, the machine I purchased is only rated at 35 watts.

“The higher the power, the smaller the majority of the particles (condition held until power levels of our largest lead zirconate-titanate transducers went beyond 1000 watts per transducer.) No effective reduction occurred beyond these power levels (Power Spectral Density evaluations). However, it WAS NOT necessary to reach these power levels to obtain excellent nano-size liposomes. 200 watts driving a transducer at 38K Hertz....yielded excellent results.....even with the high-power lead zirconate units.”

http://www.racehorseherbal.com/Infections/LET/let.html

Also, thanks for the link to Dr. Dan Cobb. However, I can assure you that treating heart disease is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Vitamin C! Personally, I have been taking high-dose Vitamin C(along with a few other select supplements) for close to 15 years without a single cold, flu, food-poisoning, or other infectious disease during this time period.

 

[Richs]

Hi, Richard S. Try to double your dose once taking 8 to 10 grams at one time, and let me know if you reach bowel tolerance.

I have no interest in experimenting the limits of Liposomal C intake before bowel tolerance. As I have stated, I am using this as therapy for a serious condition and that is all I intend to do at this time as my health is currently more important to me than anything else.

If you pass the test, I am interested in knowing the name, model number, and wattage for the ultrasonic cleaner you are using. If liposomal Vitamin C can be made using this technology, I suspect the problem myself and others might be having is using a cheaper low wattage machine. For example, the machine I purchased is only rated at 35 watts.

I am using the same low power ultrasonic cleaner as most everyone else here. It is rated at 35 watts and I use it for about 20 minutes per batch. While it is true that higher power produces smaller particle sizes, the literature mentions that even the low power machines produce particles that are sufficiently small to pass freely through one's system and into the cells where the benefits are obtained.

Also, thanks for the link to Dr. Dan Cobb.

You are certainly welcome!






[/quote]

 

[jimme]

While it is true that higher power produces smaller particle sizes, the literature mentions that even the low power machines produce particles that are sufficiently small to pass freely through one's system and into the cells where the benefits are obtained.

The only reference to power versus particle size I have found is the above article stating that a 200 watt machine produced "excellent results". So if have further information to support using lower wattage machines then please share it with us.

The fact that you can take 15 grams of Vitamin C per day in divided doses really doesn't tell us much, since I can also take 15 grams per day, in divided doses, using non-lipo C without reaching bowel tolerance.

I'm not sure why you would not want to experiment and determine whether the mixture you are making is indeed liposomal. According to Thomas Levy and every other reference I have found, reaching bowel tolerance causes no long term health consequences beyond temporary diarrhea. Perhaps you could step from 4 to 5 to 6 grams and so on if you still have concerns in this regard and would like to test.

And thanks for your feedback!