Dutroux Cover-up Protected Pedophile Networks

[realitybugll]

bngenoh,

you asked about my comment: "I'm not sure if sleeping with the parents is harmful or if any erotic behavior is displayed that it is necessarily harmful either."

for instance Demause may be misreading bonding with a child, hugging, comforting, sleeping in the same bed with the child, the parents having sex in the same bed as, but not with the child, as abuse.

from demause "and since most Japanese parents still regularly have sexual intercourse while the child is in bed with them,(161) one wonders how scholars can continue to maintain that nothing sexual usually happens to the Japanese child in the family bed…"

I don't know how accurate this inferrence is or not.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Well, I don't think I'd get into hyperdimensional issues; sticking with genetic psychopathy as an explanation is sufficient. Since you are talking about people with very low educational/understanding levels, I think you can break that down to "studies have shown that some people are born with defects in their systems that amount to them having little more than animal level emotions, mainly those of crocodiles" or something like that. Best not to get into some mystical/religious/hyperdimensional explanation.

Have you read "The Myth of Sanity"? Perhaps writing to Martha Stout for guidance might be an idea? Or George Simon?

This is such a deep and complicated thing that I am not expressing well. I have read all of the psychology books. I used to be badly dissociated myself. I have made inroads with two women on dissociation. The woman who is a heroin addict cannot remember her life at all up to the age of eight. Now here is the kicker on that- we made a ton of progress over two to three years, and she actually tried to go back in to counseling. She told them what she had learned and that she wanted to take it further, and they basically poo- pooed her, and tried to put her on meds. Her mother is a full blown raving narcissist. Her brother and herself were put out in the streets at 13 and 11 respectively. It blows my mind that any type of therapy will not address this. Now granted, she is on medicaid, so it is state paid for. But she stopped going, because she was not looking to get medicated- she wanted to go further with the material we were working on. She has developed Hep C and her eyesight is failing now ( she is in her 50's) so reading is almost out of the question there.


Every one of these women are at different places in their needs and understanding, so ideas change. At the times hyperdimensional
stuff has come up, it is because they are inclined that way towards interest in ailens, experiences, etc. It has actually helped them to understand real academics have been working on these things. They love talking about lizzies and psychopaths! But that is only with two of them. No way I would bring it up otherwise, as that may traumatize them further. The two I have made the most progress with are also close friends of mine. I have a knack of attracting abused women, it would seem.

The others I am not as close to, so it has been a balancing act as I know I am not a therapist, and I do not to want to make anything worse. The women I grew up with are the hardest, and worse off, as the gap in knowledge is so huge.

I have never thought of writing Martha Stout for guidance as what I do is nothing "formal". I have given examples of Geroge Simon, and also explained psychopathy on very common organic levels asyou have suggested.

Here is where it gets tricky. Once you start making some points clear, then the questions always come at some point of, " Well, if that is true, why don't we know it- why isn't on tv? " Things like that. Then you get sidetracked trying to explain things like that. It all just becomes jumbled all over the place, because these are issues you kinda need to grok to make sense of it all.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Here is where it gets tricky. Once you start making some points clear, then the questions always come at some point of, " Well, if that is true, why don't we know it- why isn't on tv? " Things like that. Then you get sidetracked trying to explain things like that. It all just becomes jumbled all over the place, because these are issues you kinda need to grok to make sense of it all.

That's a big problem in general. And for those who aren't too inclined to read, that's where good videos come in. It still won't be easy to deal with some of these issues, but like people who WILL read seem to give credence to something in print more that just telling them about it (at least if they're open enough to look into it) those that don't read much, will probably be able to see that there ARE videos that delve into these important issues, but they're not going to see it covered properly, if at all, on mainstream TV.

 

[truth seeker]

bngenoh,

you asked about my comment: "I'm not sure if sleeping with the parents is harmful or if any erotic behavior is displayed that it is necessarily harmful either."

for instance Demause may be misreading bonding with a child, hugging, comforting, sleeping in the same bed with the child, the parents having sex in the same bed as, but not with the child, as abuse.

from demause "and since most Japanese parents still regularly have sexual intercourse while the child is in bed with them,(161) one wonders how scholars can continue to maintain that nothing sexual usually happens to the Japanese child in the family bed…"

I don't know how accurate this inferrence is or not.

Just my opinion, so for what it's worth. To me, even if nothing sexual is going on, at a certain age, they should probably sleep in their own bed, particularly if there are two parents in it. This sounds like it's getting into the area of emotional incest (where emotional boundaries are breached as opposed to physical). A good book about this is Emotional Incest Syndrome by Dr. Patricia Love.

 

[bngenoh]

bngenoh,

you asked about my comment: "I'm not sure if sleeping with the parents is harmful or if any erotic behavior is displayed that it is necessarily harmful either."

for instance Demause may be misreading bonding with a child, hugging, comforting, sleeping in the same bed with the child, the parents having sex in the same bed as, but not with the child, as abuse.

from demause "and since most Japanese parents still regularly have sexual intercourse while the child is in bed with them,(161) one wonders how scholars can continue to maintain that nothing sexual usually happens to the Japanese child in the family bed…"

I don't know how accurate this inferrence is or not.

Just my opinion, so for what it's worth. To me, even if nothing sexual is going on, at a certain age, they should probably sleep in their own bed, particularly if there are two parents in it. This sounds like it's getting into the area of emotional incest (where emotional boundaries are breached as opposed to physical). A good book about this is Emotional Incest Syndrome by Dr. Patricia Love.

Don't know about that wetroof,

Hugging, comforting and sleeping in the same bed with the child like when they just had a nightmare, is totally different from having sex in front of the child. But there is a spectrum to erotic behavior, for instance if the parents hug and kiss each other in front of the children, i don't think there is anything wrong with that, any further than that then it goes into emotional incest as truth seeker said.

Parenting is a delicate balancing act, children are very observant, so what is shown to them must be carefully decided upon. They must have an example of proper behavior in relationships, and that is the duty of the child's guardian, osit.

Thanks for clarifying wetroof

 

[Nienna]

The way I see it is that these poor children (also the women, men and animals) who have had these atrocities done to them may not be able to speak out about these things, and I can understand why that may be so since their very essence has been violated, need someone who can watch what has been done to them and speak for them. My god! They have had to endure these atrocities. The least we can do for them is to watch what they have gone through and show others what is going on be it by facebook, blogging, providing links - whatever.

If you think that watching, and reading about, these things is hard just think about what they have had to go through.

The evil, cowardly psychopaths that are doing these atrocities need to be brought to the public's attention. How is that going to happen if what they are doing is not shown to the world?

I am not saying that doing those things do not help. But it usually stops there. What I am saying, is that it usually does nothing to help these people at all directly, no matter how noble and good doing it is.

Helping them directly, no, most likely not. What I was referring to was helping them - and others - by exposing those who are doing this type of thing. Making people aware that it is taking place - and quite frequently.

The more people who are aware that this happens, even viscerally, will maybe help in the long run. Butterfly wings and all that.

 

[truth seeker]

Hugging, comforting and sleeping in the same bed with the child like when they just had a nightmare, is totally different from having sex in front of the child. But there is a spectrum to erotic behavior, for instance if the parents hug and kiss each other in front of the children, i don't think there is anything wrong with that, any further than that then it goes into emotional incest as truth seeker said.

Parenting is a delicate balancing act, children are very observant, so what is shown to them must be carefully decided upon. They must have an example of proper behavior in relationships, and that is the duty of the child's guardian, osit.

Thanks for clarifying wetroof

Just want to clarify that I was responding mainly to wetroof's second sentence. There is a difference between comforting a child when they've had a nightmare or if they find that occasionally they want to sleep in their parents bed. However, and depending upon the specific situation, if a child is sleeping with their parents past a certain age, there's a possibility that something may be off. Apologies for the confusion.

 

[anart]

This is such a deep and complicated thing that I am not expressing well. I have read all of the psychology books. I used to be badly dissociated myself. I have made inroads with two women on dissociation. The woman who is a heroin addict cannot remember her life at all up to the age of eight. Now here is the kicker on that- we made a ton of progress over two to three years, and she actually tried to go back in to counseling. She told them what she had learned and that she wanted to take it further, and they basically poo- pooed her, and tried to put her on meds. Her mother is a full blown raving narcissist. Her brother and herself were put out in the streets at 13 and 11 respectively. It blows my mind that any type of therapy will not address this. Now granted, she is on medicaid, so it is state paid for. But she stopped going, because she was not looking to get medicated- she wanted to go further with the material we were working on. She has developed Hep C and her eyesight is failing now ( she is in her 50's) so reading is almost out of the question there.


Every one of these women are at different places in their needs and understanding, so ideas change. At the times hyperdimensional
stuff has come up, it is because they are inclined that way towards interest in ailens, experiences, etc. It has actually helped them to understand real academics have been working on these things. They love talking about lizzies and psychopaths! But that is only with two of them. No way I would bring it up otherwise, as that may traumatize them further. The two I have made the most progress with are also close friends of mine. I have a knack of attracting abused women, it would seem.

Daenerys, I think it's really important to learn how to accept the idea that you can't save anyone. It's not up to you to rescue these women, or educate them or anything at all. Of course you can discuss things and bring subjects up in normal conversation and if they then follow that information to help themselves, that's beneficial. What you can't do is take it upon yourself to be the rescuer or healer of people who have their own lives to live and lessons to learn. The way you speak about these women almost comes across as derogatory, as if only you can heal them or teach them or help them. Perhaps their lessons lie in learning things the hard way this time around? You can't know. All that anyone can really do is work on themselves and be ready, willing and able to help others when they sincerely ask. Are these women sincerely asking, or are you seeing a lack or problem in them and then being driven to 'fix it' or 'help' in a way that really serves yourself more than them? I think that's a possibility worth thinking about - because at the end of the day, their lives and choices are their own, as are yours. fwiw.

 

[EmeraldHope]

This is such a deep and complicated thing that I am not expressing well. I have read all of the psychology books. I used to be badly dissociated myself. I have made inroads with two women on dissociation. The woman who is a heroin addict cannot remember her life at all up to the age of eight. Now here is the kicker on that- we made a ton of progress over two to three years, and she actually tried to go back in to counseling. She told them what she had learned and that she wanted to take it further, and they basically poo- pooed her, and tried to put her on meds. Her mother is a full blown raving narcissist. Her brother and herself were put out in the streets at 13 and 11 respectively. It blows my mind that any type of therapy will not address this. Now granted, she is on medicaid, so it is state paid for. But she stopped going, because she was not looking to get medicated- she wanted to go further with the material we were working on. She has developed Hep C and her eyesight is failing now ( she is in her 50's) so reading is almost out of the question there.


Every one of these women are at different places in their needs and understanding, so ideas change. At the times hyperdimensional
stuff has come up, it is because they are inclined that way towards interest in ailens, experiences, etc. It has actually helped them to understand real academics have been working on these things. They love talking about lizzies and psychopaths! But that is only with two of them. No way I would bring it up otherwise, as that may traumatize them further. The two I have made the most progress with are also close friends of mine. I have a knack of attracting abused women, it would seem.

Daenerys, I think it's really important to learn how to accept the idea that you can't save anyone. It's not up to you to rescue these women, or educate them or anything at all. Of course you can discuss things and bring subjects up in normal conversation and if they then follow that information to help themselves, that's beneficial. What you can't do is take it upon yourself to be the rescuer or healer of people who have their own lives to live and lessons to learn. The way you speak about these women almost comes across as derogatory, as if only you can heal them or teach them or help them. Perhaps their lessons lie in learning things the hard way this time around? You can't know. All that anyone can really do is work on themselves and be ready, willing and able to help others when they sincerely ask. Are these women sincerely asking, or are you seeing a lack or problem in them and then being driven to 'fix it' or 'help' in a way that really serves yourself more than them? I think that's a possibility worth thinking about - because at the end of the day, their lives and choices are their own, as are yours. fwiw.

Anart, let me clarify, and I will leave it at this. These things have come about gradualy and naturaly. I know I cannot save anyone. I really basically listen. If someone is asking I do what I can in the process of discussion. I am not being derogatory in any maner and if anything I say comes across that way I do not mean it to in the least bit. I am stating an issue that I see. It is there, it is objective, and it is the truth. What I am saying in the paragraph you are referencing above was in relation to trying to answer Laura. I can criticize these women no more than I can criticize myself. I know what it is like to certain extent to be in their shoes. That is why I do listen and do what I can. The point I am trying to make overall is a lot of people do not in their daily lives have access to many things that would help them, nor role models, nor reference points to get the reference points that they need. As I stated earlier, it seems like a cop out to me to say well they just need to learn things the hard way. Maybe it is true, I don't know. I do think something could be done. I do not know what yet. To me it seems like real issues that could be addressed. It seems to go with the issue of this thread in that due to the overall situation of most victims that really could benefit from what is done here, the cannot access it directly from where they are. I am in no way serving myself here. I do not make it a point to make anything happen ever. I also think it is very hard to make people understand the true situation when perhaps they themselves have no reference point for that type of thing. As I stated earlier, maybe it is a lesson I need. I just find it almost intellectually arrogant and wishful thinking to say things like that, because there are not many signposts available for anyone in these types of situations to see and make any type of choice. If that is not rigged I do not know what is. I am willing to back down on most all things to many people here, as you guys know a lot more than me about most all things. This is one area I am no so willing to do it.

 

[bngenoh]

I also think it is very hard to make people understand the true situation when perhaps they themselves have no reference point for that type of thing. As I stated earlier, maybe it is a lesson I need. I just find it almost intellectually arrogant and wishful thinking to say things like that, because there are not many signposts available for anyone in these types of situations to see and make any type of choice. If that is not rigged I do not know what is. I am willing to back down on most all things to many people here, as you guys know a lot more than me about most all things. This is one area I am no so willing to do it.

It is rigged Daenerys,

That we know, but we also know that as the situation is right now, our ability to help others is limited at best, nonexistent at worst. That is our lot it seems, to know and suffer because we know, and not be able to do much about it directly, except work on ourselves until the situation changes and we are able to assist directly.

 

[EmeraldHope]

I also think it is very hard to make people understand the true situation when perhaps they themselves have no reference point for that type of thing. As I stated earlier, maybe it is a lesson I need. I just find it almost intellectually arrogant and wishful thinking to say things like that, because there are not many signposts available for anyone in these types of situations to see and make any type of choice. If that is not rigged I do not know what is. I am willing to back down on most all things to many people here, as you guys know a lot more than me about most all things. This is one area I am no so willing to do it.

It is rigged Daenerys,

That we know, but we also know that as the situation is right now, our ability to help others is limited at best, nonexistent at worst. That is our lot it seems, to know and suffer because we know, and not be able to do much about it directly, except work on ourselves until the situation changes and we are able to assist directly.

But really my ability is not exactly limited. Neither is anyone elses. Wold it be easy? No. Could a suite of videos be made in regards to self help based on our psychology books and spiritual truths and psychopathy be made? Yup. Then they would have a choice, where right now there is not one as a stepping stone.

 

[SoCurious]

Yes Daenerys,

The matter of giving when not asked seems to be pretty complex. When someone doesn't even know they don't know how are they going to ask? If you can see something that may help them and after you begin they show appreciation and wish to continue I can see that as them asking. I take my hat off to you for going out your way to help.

The STS aspect is very subtle,

I am in no way serving myself here.

The C's and Ayn Rand are in complete agreement on this funnily enough. No matter what we do, if it is a compulsion, like saving 10 people from drowning from a sinking ship, rescuing a buddy under fire in wartime, or if it be anything else which we

could

choose not to do, we're always pandering to a selfish side of ourselves. People may give us medals, express admiration, but the truth of the matter is that in some way we have fulfilled a selfish compulsion. This is harsh but true simply because we're STS. But........there are degrees of STS and STO in most of us and personally it appears to me you are leaning very much more to the STO side than the STS side.

I wish you and your ladies much successful progress.

 

[bngenoh]

But really my ability is not exactly limited. Neither is anyone elses. Wold it be easy? No. Could a suite of videos be made in regards to self help based on our psychology books and spiritual truths and psychopathy be made? Yup. Then they would have a choice, where right now there is not one as a stepping stone.

Don't take this the wrong way but, how do you know the limitations of others?

Context is everything, we give when we are able to. The project you speak of is a huge undertaking, and in my case i wouldn't be able to contribute much if at all.

"We live not as we wish, but as we are able to." The reality of the situation, at least as i see it, is forced choices. What can we do but factor that in how we interact with reality.

We assist not as we wish, but as we are able to. That is the reality of the situation.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Yes Daenerys,

The matter of giving when not asked seems to be pretty complex. When someone doesn't even know they don't know how are they going to ask? If you can see something that may help them and after you begin they show appreciation and wish to continue I can see that as them asking. I take my hat off to you for going out your way to help.

The STS aspect is very subtle,

I am in no way serving myself here.

The C's and Ayn Rand are in complete agreement on this funnily enough. No matter what we do, if it is a compulsion, like saving 10 people from drowning from a sinking ship, rescuing a buddy under fire in wartime, or if it be anything else which we

could

choose not to do, we're always pandering to a selfish side of ourselves. People may give us medals, express admiration, but the truth of the matter is that in some way we have fulfilled a selfish compulsion. This is harsh but true simply because we're STS. But........there are degrees of STS and STO in most of us and personally it appears to me you are leaning very much more to the STO side than the STS side.

I wish you and your ladies much successful progress.

My compulsion, if you will, is because I know what it is like to be very damaged and have no one who is in any way stable to listen or offer any type of help to someone who IS asking. It is not a matter of one who is not asking. It usually starts by the simple request of asking to be LISTENED to. Validated. Heard. The when one feels one is heard, one does ask questions. Simple as that. I do not think many here understand what it is like to be really really broken to the extent some are, and know that something is wrong , and not have a clue what to do. Much less have any one willing to communicate with you that has their act more together or has the knowledge in any way that could help. The are generally not in the social milleu that you find yourself in when that is the case. As I said earlier in this thread, to a certain extent you are a leper. If it is selfish or STS to see this and want to give people who do want help an option, so be it. I assure you, most educated people who could help do not ever give these people the time of day.

 

[EmeraldHope]

But really my ability is not exactly limited. Neither is anyone elses. Wold it be easy? No. Could a suite of videos be made in regards to self help based on our psychology books and spiritual truths and psychopathy be made? Yup. Then they would have a choice, where right now there is not one as a stepping stone.

Don't take this the wrong way but, how do you know the limitations of others?

Context is everything, we give when we are able to. The project you speak of is a huge undertaking, and in my case i wouldn't be able to contribute much if at all.

"We live not as we wish, but as we are able to." The reality of the situation, at least as i see it, is forced choices. What can we do but factor that in how we interact with reality.

We assist not as we wish, but as we are able to. That is the reality of the situation.

I do not know all of the limitations of others. I also do not wish to argue. As to if would help or not I don't know. I just wonder what would have happened if Laura had felt the same way about her knowledge. All I am suggesting is serving a lot of the same knowledge to a wider sector of people who could use it and need it. I am not so willing to give in to a defeatist attitude.