E-cigarettes: research - experiments - ideas
- Thread starter broken.english
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I think there's a few methods that would work. You could use a french press:
Or you could buy drip coffee filters made from unbleached paper, and pour the tobacco tincture over that. I'd probably do a large batch, so I'd get the biggest filters I can find, and also the biggest funnel to put them in.
I think the French press would have more capacity, and would be easier, with less need to buy throwaway materials.
There are also tincture presses for extracting every last ounce of juice from the plant material. They can be very, very expensive, though! Like $2000. I'm going to use a french press, and if there is still tobacco particulate in the extract, I'll go for the drip coffee filter method.
Apparently malic acid is highly water soluble so maybe alcohol might not be needed to extract the nicotine?
Sometimes I make a pesticide using tobacco. To do that I put the leaves in a 2 quart container and pour hot water on it and let that sit for up to a day. Then the strain it I take all the leaves out then pour the liquid through a paper towel, that has to be done slowly and sometimes I have to change to a new paper towel because the first one gets clogged. Then I let the strained liquid sit a while so any remaining particles settle to the bottom, then slowly pour it into a spray bottle for use. That seems to work, so far I have not clogged the sprayer, so a similar process might work for vape juice. Paper coffee filters would work, but I don't have any and don't need an entire package for the once a year occasional use.
With a french press the fine dust will not be caught. Or at least it isn't with coffee.
I also save the stems from my whole leaf tobacco to make a natural insect repellant for the gardens. I will try grinding those and see if they make a decent extract, too. I'm guessing they have nicotine in them? I must have a few pounds of them.
Fermentation is another word for curing. There is a difference between properly cured tobacco and dried.
growingandcuringtobacco.wordpress.com
The author then goes on to discuss DIY curing, showing a cool home-made curing box. I've seen some people make a curing box use an old fridge. They put a slow cooker at the bottom with a small amount of water in it to provide humidity, with the leaves hanging above. They usually install temperature and humidity controls, and a little fan, all of which are pretty cheap on Amazon. And monitor closely for mold invasions. You can find lots of designs out there on the interwebs.
If you just dry the tobacco (air cure), there will be plenty of nicotine, tho. The flavour will be different, and probably reduced, because the starches have not been converted into sugars. As with most things, it all depends on what level you want to dive in!
Fermentation is another word for curing. There is a difference between properly cured tobacco and dried.
GROWING, CURING, FLAVOURING AND FINISHING TOBACCO FOR CIGARETTES
growingandcuringtobacco.wordpress.com
What is curing?
There seem to be a number of ‘myth-like’ stories about curing tobacco. A favourite is that seamen, carrying tobacco from America, noticed that bales of tobacco leaf fermented during the course of crossing the Atlantic. The result of the fermentation was that the tobacco leaves emitted a sweet smell (because starches in the leaves underwent a chemical change and became sugars). Smokers of this fermented tobacco found that the taste was much to their liking and better than unfermented tobacco. Thus the idea of deliberately fermenting tobacco leaves came to be. But there are variations on this story. It seems that there was a practice of transporting tobacco leaves inside used rum casks and that the leaves fermented in the casks and, at the same time, absorbed rum flavouring. It is important to understand that tobacco is very ‘hydrophilic’. Hydrophilic means ‘water loving’ – tobacco absorbs water readily. If there is also rum flavouring in the water, the tobacco will absorb the rum flavouring along with the water which carries the flavouring. Thus the idea of not only fermenting tobacco but also flavouring tobacco came to be.
Whatever the history might be, it became the practice to ferment the tobacco leaves deliberately at the source rather than leaving it to chance. Thus, tobacco growers in America built special barns with temperature and humidity controls which created the optimum conditions for the fermentation of the leaves to occur. Once cured, the tobacco can be packaged, stored and transported with ease. We would have great difficulty in emulating these methods, since we do not have the same climactic conditions. It is no accident that the best places to grow and ferment tobacco leaves occur in a belt around a position a little north or south of the equator, including the Southern States of America, Zimbabwe, India, China, and many more.
...
So the Tobacco Company processes of curing tobacco are difficult for us to emulate, so we would be better off using our own methods. Here is a quote from a site which illustrates the methods that Tobacco
Companies use – be sure to note the way in which the temperature in increased in a controlled manner over a few days:
In general, curing can be divided into three distinct stages: yellowing, leaf drying, and stem drying. The first stage can be described as a period of major chemical conversions and color development. Air temperature in the barn is maintained between 30 and 40°C, with relative humidity of 80 to 95%, (5 (https://boltonsmokersclub.wordpress...avouring-and-finishing-tobacco-forcigarettes/ popRef2('i0082-4623-44-1-51-b5')),12 (https://boltonsmokersclub.wordpress.com/growing-curingflavouring- and-finishing-tobacco-for-cigarettes/popRef2('i0082-4623-44-1-51-b12'))) for about 48 h or until the leaves turn yellow. In the second stage, air temperature in the barn is increased gradually to 50 or 60°C, while relative
humidity is lowered to allow more rapid moisture removal. This stage lasts for 36 to 72 h (12
(https://boltonsmokersclub.wordpress...avouring-and-finishing-tobacco-forcigarettes/ popRef2('i0082-4623-44-1-51-b12'))). The last stage (stem drying) generally requires 36 to 48 h. Air temperature is increased to 74°C with further decrease of relative humidity to permit rapid drying of the midrib.
[Source: http://www.tobaccoscienceonline.org/doi/full/10.3381/0082-4623-44.1.51
(http://www.tobaccoscienceonline.org/doi/full/10.3381/0082-4623-44.1.51)]
Do we have the resources and staff to control the temperature, ventilation and humidity in that way? Can we even create such temperatures? The only alternative is to take a longer time at lower temperatures etc, but it is all a bit hit and miss.
...
Tobacco can be cured through several methods, including:
Air cured (Curing of tobacco - Wikipedia) tobacco is hung in well-ventilated barns and allowed to dry over a period of four to eight weeks. Air-cured tobacco is low in sugar, which gives the tobacco smoke a light, mild flavor, and high in nicotine. Cigar and burley tobaccos are air cured.
Fire cured (Curing of tobacco - Wikipedia) tobacco is hung in large barns where fires of hardwoods are kept on continuous or intermittent low smoulder and takes between three days and ten weeks, depending on the process and the tobacco. . Fire curing produces a tobacco low in sugar and high in nicotine. Pipe tobacco, chewing tobacco, and snuff are fire cured.
Flue cured (Curing of tobacco - Wikipedia) tobacco was originally strung onto tobacco sticks, which were hung from tier-poles in curing barns (Aus: kilns (Kiln - Wikipedia), also traditionally called Oasts (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/oast)). These barns have flues run from externally-fed fire boxes, heat-curing the tobacco without exposing it to smoke, slowly raising the temperature over the course of the curing. The process generally takes about a week. This method produces cigarette tobacco that is high in sugar and has medium to high levels of nicotine.
Sun-cured (Curing of tobacco - Wikipedia) tobacco dries uncovered in the sun. This method is used in Turkey,Greece and other Mediterranean countries to produce oriental tobacco. Sun-cured tobacco is low in sugar and nicotine and is used in cigarettes.
...
The intention is to hang the leaves for as long as is necessary for them to cure themselves. But note that
there is a fan running constantly! The fan is required to circulate air to avoid mould; mould can occur very
easily in stagnant conditions. Mould spores float about in the air and, given warm, damp, stagnant conditions, can gobble up leaves in no time.
Here is a quote from Tobacco Science:
Chemical changes mediated by enzymatic activity during the yellowing stage lead to the formation of desired compounds in the cured tobacco. Starch is converted into reducing sugars during yellowing and early leaf drying. As starch degrades, reducing sugar concentration increases and reaches its peak by the end of the yellowing stage. It then declines due to respiration, which oxidizes reducing sugar into carbon dioxide and water. Reducing sugars contribute up to approximately 22% of flue-cured leaf dry weight and are major components of cured leaf quality.
Chlorophyll degradation, noted by the disappearance of green and the emergence of yellow colors, is widely used to judge the curing progress. Full development of yellow color is often used to mark the end of the yellowing process, which is usually associated with completion of certain chemical reactions, especially starch to sugar conversions. This is possible because the degradation of starch and chlorophyll occur at about the same rate, although the reactions are independent. However, in some cases tobacco leaves appear yellow before desirable chemical changes have been completed. This might lead to low quality tobacco and a poor smoke taste.
The bold bit [my bold] suggests that you can have yellow leaves which have not fermented or fermented
leaves which have not turned yellow!
Easy solution? Make sure that the leaves ferment!
The author then goes on to discuss DIY curing, showing a cool home-made curing box. I've seen some people make a curing box use an old fridge. They put a slow cooker at the bottom with a small amount of water in it to provide humidity, with the leaves hanging above. They usually install temperature and humidity controls, and a little fan, all of which are pretty cheap on Amazon. And monitor closely for mold invasions. You can find lots of designs out there on the interwebs.
If you just dry the tobacco (air cure), there will be plenty of nicotine, tho. The flavour will be different, and probably reduced, because the starches have not been converted into sugars. As with most things, it all depends on what level you want to dive in!
Thanks, good to know. I may just use a cotton cloth as the filter. I don't want to deal with paper due to the risk of forever chemicals like dioxins, formaldehyde, and BPA. That said, I've read there are chemicals like PFAS in a lot of shirts, too. Not sure if any of those chems would extract out in the alcohol, but maybe I'll find a bit of organic cotton cloth just to be sure.
broken.english
Jedi Council Member
I used around 8-10 gr of tobacco and 100 ml of alcohol. I still recommend this ratio.
No need to use so much tobacco. s. above
Important: for the final liquid do not use more than 5-8% of tobacco flavour. Sometimes less is more. If you overdose you will get an ashen taste in your mouth.
I do not recommend Everclear.
It is estilo americano (todos con pistola en mano). It may be good for herbal tinctures but not for vaping purposes because
a) it is too strong - alcohol is harsh on the lungs
and
b) not necessary - ordinary rum/vodka/brandy will do the job perfectly (s. above HowTo)
broken.english
Jedi Council Member
Yes, they have. Most nicotine is in the leaves, however.
broken.english
Jedi Council Member
Both will work but there is the delicate matter of flavour.
I will let you in on one of my kitchen laboratory secrets:
Nicotine, extracted from fermented tobacco, has flavour.
broken.english
Jedi Council Member
Indeed it is not needed for nicotine extraction. The acid/base method, described in my HowTo uses alkaline water to extract nicotine and other alkaloids as the first step.
Alcohol is needed for flavour extraction.
Well, thanks to this thread I got my vaping device with a couple of nic salts (50-50) yesterday. I read about all the different devices, and considering your recommendations I ended up with a Vasporesso Cube. There are dozens of different devices out there, it's a jungle, I tell you 
.
Here's a review of the device.
I was very skeptical at first, not sure if I would enjoy the experience, but I am very happy with the device and didn't feel the need to light a cigarette all day. It's ideal for nic salts and Mouth-to-Lung vaping, it's portable, it has an automatic wattage and it uses pods. The sensation is similar to smoking a cigarette and you get the right hit.
At first I struggled with the ohms and different wattages, but now I know that lower ohms and higher wattages are ideal for free base e-juices. They are used for Direct-to-Lung vaping, with more cloud, flavor and a smoother hit. If I understand correctly.
Higher ohms and lower wattages are ideal for nic salts and Mouth-to-Lung vaping. Also, less cloud and a stronger hit, again, similar to a cigarette.
High resistance saves a lot of battery power.
As for the mix with distilled water, am I right in thinking that you would need a high resistance and lower wattage as the boiling point would be lower?
Thanks for starting the thread, @broken.english
.Here's a review of the device.
I was very skeptical at first, not sure if I would enjoy the experience, but I am very happy with the device and didn't feel the need to light a cigarette all day. It's ideal for nic salts and Mouth-to-Lung vaping, it's portable, it has an automatic wattage and it uses pods. The sensation is similar to smoking a cigarette and you get the right hit.
At first I struggled with the ohms and different wattages, but now I know that lower ohms and higher wattages are ideal for free base e-juices. They are used for Direct-to-Lung vaping, with more cloud, flavor and a smoother hit. If I understand correctly.
Higher ohms and lower wattages are ideal for nic salts and Mouth-to-Lung vaping. Also, less cloud and a stronger hit, again, similar to a cigarette.
High resistance saves a lot of battery power.
As for the mix with distilled water, am I right in thinking that you would need a high resistance and lower wattage as the boiling point would be lower?
Thanks for starting the thread, @broken.english
I found this video about a guy who makes his own tobacco flavour with PG:
I was thinking of doing the same but with VG. In the comments someone asks about it and he says that it should work but it might take longer, like 12 weeks. Of course, with alcohol you can do it faster, so I guess I'll just experiment a bit. He does say in another video that this extract has negligible amounts of nicotine so it wouldn't work if you're smoking for the nicotine, it is just for flavour.
Your method for nicotine extractions sounds interesting too, I'm still trying to find another form of pure nicotine without VG that would dissolve in water, but I haven't found it yet.
What's super good is that you really don't need a lot of tobacco for this extract so you can spend a little in good quality tobacco to make a nice additive free extract and it will last quite a lot.
In fact, apart from the vaping device itself, all the other components of the e-liquid are quite cheap here so it makes a cheaper and healthier way of smoking!
broken.english
Jedi Council Member
Yes, my DIY liquids are producing vapour at low power settings, e.g. 1.6 ohm on a non adjustable battery.
broken.english
Jedi Council Member
Yes, you can extract flavour with vg. After a million years or so you can have great fun with the filtration of tiny tobacco particles out of a very thick liquid. VG is an alcohol but undiluted appears to be as oily as oil.
Any nicotine that you can purchase somewhere will lack taste and flavour.
On the other hand, if you extract from real tobacco, you might have a pleasant surprise. s.#85
