Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

[Nienna]

As the POTS started, I was really concerned about trying to feel the words as others have mentioned. This was doubly on my mind as I had just read something kenlee posted on the formatory part of the centres. So here I go trying to feel the prayer, and suddenly I remembered a time when I had been admonished, "Stop thinking mechanically!" I started to cry because the answer came "I don't know how!" (even remembering it now, I'm tearing up). Then the crying got stronger and stronger and my whole body was just shaking and vibrating in waves that seemed to originate from the solar plexus. To see it, it probably looked almost orgasmic, but there wasn't a whiff of sexuality about it. Just a kind of visceral despair that I will never be able to transcend the limits of my thinking patterns.

I am wondering if you are "trying" too hard for a specific outcome? Also, as we are finding out, there are a lot of pent up thoughts, emotions and physical conditions coming up that we have blocked and are now coming to the surface. This may be what is happening to you.

You say that you have had a lot of upheaval in your life and that you have had to have a lot of self control for the last two months. That, to me, is a long time to be keeping things in a controlled way. Maybe this is the way that the EE is letting your body finally relax, along with the cleansing of some of your controlled emotions?

I would say that this is just going to be a normal reaction to the EE. As you say you felt more relaxed this morning. That, in itself, seems to me to be a good thing.

What I'd like to ask is whether anyone experience the increased zoning out, and whether it is a good thing or not. As far as I can see, there's no negative effect and I feel more peaceful and able to cope better during the day. But I just want to be sure. I also miss hearing the POTS. Thanks.

I have to agree with Redfox, that if you are tired when you do this that it is more likely that you will be zoning out more frequently.

But I would also like to say that last night when I did the EE that I was not as tired as usual and as the POTS came on I was ready for it. I was awake and ready to focus on it. I was doing great through the first prayer and then all of a sudden, right in the middle of it, I was gone. I awoke while the final music was playing. I started it again, and the exact same thing happened. So I went to sleep.

I also have been having dreams of snakes recently. Something I haven't really done since I was a small child. (Well, there was one time when in my 30s where I dreamed a snake was right outside our bedroom door and it came in and was on the bed, and then I found out when I woke up that my ex's ball python had gotten out of its cage and was outside of the bedroom door when he got up. )

So I can't help but think that these are signs that things are really being cleansed from pent up emotions and whatever else that have been kept buried for some time.

I think that these things are normal and yet different for each person and we should suspect that things like these are going to happen as long as we keep doing the EE. For how long, I have not a clue.

I also want to say that I agree with what others have said and that doing the full EE program should only be done on Mondays and Thursdays as was recommended by the Cs.

fwiw

 

[manitoban]

What I'd like to ask is whether anyone experience the increased zoning out, and whether it is a good thing or not. As far as I can see, there's no negative effect and I feel more peaceful and able to cope better during the day. But I just want to be sure. I also miss hearing the POTS. Thanks.

My experience has been that there is no pattern to whether or not I zone out. I have done the program during the day, evening and even the morning and each time is different. On some days, I don't zone at all, other days I'm even zoning during the baha! I tend to think that our bodies are just doing what it needs at that time. (this may be wrong though!)

If I may ask a question...
During the Ba Ha portion I must lay down. My body has a hard time sitting and I can make it through the 3 stage breathing and the warriors breath. I did try and do the Ba HA part yesterday sitting up with my back up against the bed, unfortunately the pain in my back was distracting me and so I went and laid down. So the question is, is there a difference when doing Ba Ha if one lays down or sits up?

The Ba Ha goes much more smoothly for me if I'm lying down too, my back starts bugging me if I'm sitting or standing. I don't know if there is a difference or not, but it seems to me that if you're more comfortable than you can really focus on the breathing.

You say that you have had a lot of upheaval in your life and that you have had to have a lot of self control for the last two months. That, to me, is a long time to be keeping things in a controlled way. Maybe this is the way that the EE is letting your body finally relax, along with the cleansing of some of your controlled emotions?

This makes sense to me too, herondancer. A couple of times that I've been really stressed and then done the program, that's when I've had a real release of emotion, and it really did make me feel cleansed of the stress. Sounds like your body is doing exactly what it needs to do in releasing the stored up emotions.

 

[wanderer]

The position of the eyes is important. Straight ahead is normal waking consciousness, up (to the third eye spot on the forehead) is higher consciousness, down is subconsciousness. Try to keep your gaze focused slightly upward and don't let it drop down. It's something you'll have to struggle with, but if you've progressed far enough in just a few months that you've reached that point, you're doing great!

Just to clarify: do you mean that one keeps the eyes open or closed while "positioning" the eyes? Where does this information come from exactly, I would like to read more about this.

Hi Aragorn,

My training in meditation was from the lessons available from Self Realization Fellowship http://www.yogananda-srf.org/lessons/index.html_, as well as counseling from more advanced meditators. For a nominal cost you get a weekly lesson that guides you through the practice of their meditation techniques, and later a lot of esoteric lore from the Hindu mystical tradition. What I'm sharing here is what I found helpful in my long struggle with falling asleep during meditation, only what has been validated by my personal experience. I have not been associated with SRF for many years, and I'm not promoting them in any way ( although Yogananda said that when his disciples left the body he would be waiting for them at the end of the light tunnel, and I won't be surprised if he's there in 5D to greet me).

The eyes are supposed to be half open, but I never found that comfortable so I meditate with closed eyes. I suppose if you could keep your eyes half open it might help with falling asleep.

My experience with sleepitation was one of a deep, zoning subconscious dream-like state, but when meditating in a group my friend would sit next to me and give me a nudge every time, apparently I was obviously falling asleep. I'm afraid I might have been snoring loudly and they were too kind to tell me.

Laura says "You may want to lie down ... however you are most comfortable" so lying down is not a hard and fast rule IMO, and those experiencing this problem may want to try staying upright. Although falling asleep has not yet been a problem for me with this program, after writing my post last night I tried doing the whole program sitting up and it was much better for me.

 

[mada85]

fwiw. The times that I meditated myself (before the EE program) I seemed to notice that my eyes automatically go upward (they're closed).
It always give me that ''headache'' feeling, but it's the pressure between my eyes. Never understood that one.

The idea in some traditional meditation techniques is to use the energy that normally animates the eyes, and to redirect that to the third eye to awaken it. For this one can either look upwards to focus on the point between the eyebrows, or can look downwards to focus on the tip of the nose. The point being to keep the eyes still (they are usually in constant movement) so their energy can flow into the third eye. These positions are designed to help keep the eyes still, and stilling the eyes also helps to still the mind.

I may be wrong, but my impression is that the Indian systems prefer to direct the eyes upwards, while the Chinese prefer to direct the eyes downwards.

Bearing in mind the wide variations in human types I don’t think one should be dogmatic about eye position. Some people may find it more comfortable to concentrate on the prayer and to allow the eyes to find their natural position. Experimentation and comfort are the keys to success, imho. My experience is that when I’m actively contemplating the meaning of the prayer, I’ve forgotten about the position of my eyes.

Just to clarify: do you mean that one keeps the eyes open or closed while "positioning" the eyes? Where does this information come from exactly, I would like to read more about this.

Or perhaps half open?

Here’s an excerpt from The Secret of the Golden Flower (Richard Wilhelm translation) which talks about this:

One should look at the tip of one’s nose. But this does not mean that one should fasten one’s thoughts to the tip of the nose. […]

The expression ‘tip of the nose’ is cleverly chosen. The nose must serve the eyes as a guide-line. If one is not guided by the nose, either one opens wide the eyes and looks into the distance […] or the lids shut too much, so that the eyes close, and again the nose is not seen. But when the eyes are opened too wide, one makes the mistake of directing them outward, whereby one is easily distracted. If they are closed too much, one makes the mistake of letting them turn inward, whereby one easily sinks into a dreamy reverie.

Only when the eyelids are lowered properly halfway is the tip of the nose seen in just the right way. Therefore it is taken as a guide-line. The main thing is to lower the eyelids in the right way, and then to allow the light to stream in of itself; without effort, wanting the light to stream in concentratedly.

This is similar to Qi Gong, where one is instructed to allow the light to enter the eyes, to be aware of oneself as the receiver of sight, rather than actively looking at things.

 

[Brenda86]

I just want to share something interesting that happened last night with the breathing/meditation. I waited until late in the evening to do it because I had so much going on in the day and fell asleep during the Ba Ha portion of the breathing. The funny thing is that I was listening to it on my mp3 player, so it repeated all night in my ears. I had a friend sleeping over in the same room as me and she said I was doing some weird breathing in my sleep and the way she described it was the exact pattern of the Ba Ha breathing. So it turns out I was doing the breathing during the night even though I was asleep.

I just thought this was really interesting that I did it unaware.

 

[truth seeker]

I just want to share something interesting that happened last night with the breathing/meditation. I waited until late in the evening to do it because I had so much going on in the day and fell asleep during the Ba Ha portion of the breathing. The funny thing is that I was listening to it on my mp3 player, so it repeated all night in my ears. I had a friend sleeping over in the same room as me and she said I was doing some weird breathing in my sleep and the way she described it was the exact pattern of the Ba Ha breathing. So it turns out I was doing the breathing during the night even though I was asleep.

I just thought this was really interesting that I did it unaware.

Something like this happens to me as well. I'll wake up in the middle of the night with the prayer in my head.

 

[agni]

Not sure if this is Eíriú-Eolas related, but during meditation I've been questioning how to get rid of the jealousy within. Next morning I woke up with pain in the neck (that's where jealousy resides), I thought, that's a good start :) In a day, my glads started to swell & I've started to have a feeling as if there is something stuck in my throat, as well as it became impossible for me to swallow anything, as long as pain radiating towards left ear, and bottom left side of where my wisdom tooth once was. The whole left side was feeling numb and could not talk. It's has been progressing for a week, where my throat started to swell that constricted my breathing. If I would turn my head to the right, my airways were completely blocked. Ulvula and area around it was extremely inflamed. I went to a doctor and ended up being transported to ER from his office. Was diagnosed with peritonsillar abscess. They wanted to cut it, but decided to treat me with antibiotics & steroids first, to see if I get better. It happened yesterday, not quite, but I feel much better now.

What do you guys think ? Is this a sign ? Higher self trying to communicate something ? Do I literally have so much jealousy, to the point I can not even swallow it ? Or could it something else I can not swallow so to speak. Looks like I won't be able to do EE breathing for couple of weeks. That sucks !

 

[RflctnOfU]

It's been awhile since my last posting on this. I've been doing the pipe breathing and meditation nightly. Last night my 'focus' was much better by an order of magnitude - since starting with the meditation I have been unable to get through the 2nd cycle of POTS - last night's session I made it through the 4th and zoned out somewhere during the 5th. Also during the fourth cycle my attention 'split' with one part on the words, and the other focused on my heart and crown chakra areas --- just observing --- and then Visions seemed to be streaming into my 'third eye'. Interesting.

One thing I tried a couple of weeks ago was a 'dual' cycle of the Prayer with a divided attention Forwards and backwards simultaneously (There is a neat symmetry in the prayer), with the Forward direction being in a 'louder voice'...

Kind of like:

Oh divine cosmic mind
Oh divine cosmic mind

Holy awareness of all that exists
the holiness of all life

Carried in the heart
so that I may know and love

Ruler of the mind
Cleanse my heart

etc..

That particular experiment yielded peculiar results about which I will write later, as I've only done it once (a couple weeks ago), and I'd like to do at least three more sessions to see if there are any consistent threads that emerge.

Kris

 

[anart]

One thing I tried a couple of weeks ago was a 'dual' cycle of the Prayer with a divided attention Forwards and backwards simultaneously (There is a neat symmetry in the prayer), with the Forward direction being in a 'louder voice'...

Kind of like:

Oh divine cosmic mind
Oh divine cosmic mind

Holy awareness of all that exists
the holiness of all life

Carried in the heart
so that I may know and love

Ruler of the mind
Cleanse my heart

etc..

That particular experiment yielded peculiar results about which I will write later, as I've only done it once (a couple weeks ago), and I'd like to do at least three more sessions to see if there are any consistent threads that emerge.

Kris

Hi Kris, I'm curious about why you feel the need to change the prayer at all??

 

[Arctodus]

I end up kinda zoned out and drooling when doing the breathing exercises, is this er, normal?

 

[mada85]

The ongoing discussion about the third eye point (between the eyebrows) was in my mind when I sat down to my Prayer meditation this morning.

Normally, I experience my thoughts of the words of the prayer as located more or less in the centre of my head, behind my eyes. But this morning, as I concentrated on reciting the words in my mind and contemplating their meaning, their location moved, quite spontaneously, to the third eye point. The sensation was actually rather pleasant. I wasn’t able to move the words consciously, they just moved there when I left them to it, in a relaxed way. I also found that my eyes wanted to look upwards to the third eye point. This was all happening without conscious volition on my part.

 

[Iron]

Not sure if this is Eíriú-Eolas related, but during meditation I've been questioning how to get rid of the jealousy within. Next morning I woke up with pain in the neck (that's where jealousy resides), I thought, that's a good start :) In a day, my glads started to swell & I've started to have a feeling as if there is something stuck in my throat, as well as it became impossible for me to swallow anything, as long as pain radiating towards left ear, and bottom left side of where my wisdom tooth once was.

Something similar happened to me yesterday. Lots of pain where the wisdom teeth is located, the pain radiating to the neck and top of the head. It lasted for many hours.
Dont know if its somewhat related.

 

[Hildegarda]

Higher self trying to communicate something ? Do I literally have so much jealousy, to the point I can not even swallow it ? Or could it something else I can not swallow so to speak.

tonsils, if I remember correctly, represent angry words that were swallowed at one point, and also stifled and repressed feelings. So it seems entirely possible that things came up in breathing practice. It's a good thing you have taken care of it and are feeling better physically now.

Lots of pain where the wisdom teeth is located, the pain radiating to the neck and top of the head. It lasted for many hours.
Dont know if its somewhat related.

hmm -- I have been having a TMJ flare up with pretty localized pain in my lower molars (my wisdom teeth were extracted 8 years ago, and I had TMJ ever since). Feeling congested, too, even though I am not sick and have no allergies usually. Didn't think of connecting it to the breathing practices, but it may very well be related.

I end up kinda zoned out and drooling when doing the breathing exercises, is this er, normal?

I would think so. Drooling just signifies profound relaxation of the jaws.

osit

 

[kenlee]

Just a few observations and comments.

When saying the prayer I’ll sometimes do so out loud and sense from what part of me is resonating with the sound of saying it. Sometimes it seems to be coming from my head, maybe it’ll sound out in my throat, or maybe there will be an uncomfortable sensation in my body that takes predominance and the prayer will be sensed there. But these parts of me are not the whole. So, I’ll ask myself, “how can such a small part of me speak for the whole? Could a higher world even hear and even possibly respond if only a small part of myself is asking? How can only a part of me pray when its really my entire being that’s involved in a true prayer and it’s only the whole of me that could humbly stand before and withstand the greater power of a higher world"?

I observe that my head can 'want' things that are contradictory. It can say “I want this,” I want that” and so on. And what I want could be dualistic and contradictory. One moment ‘it’ wants this, another moment ‘it’ wants that. But ‘it’ cannot wish for, and speak for, my entire essence.

Found this in the glossary:

The question of free will has many levels. At the level of the universe, we could say that the only reason why anything exists is free will. The creative will of the All mediates between the thought centers of being and non-being, creating a dance of all possible forms.

As the initial impulse of creative will descends from the unconditioned realms of creation towards materiality, it gets diluted, more mechanical and determined at each level.

Tradition, as transmitted by Gurdjieff and Mouravieff, even as reflected in the Bible, suggests that the logos or creative will of the Absolute is the impulse behind all which is. The Cassiopaeans and Ra define free will as the first universal principle.

Strict determinists are the only ones who completely deny free will.

The concept of free will becomes much more ambiguous when applied at the human level. We could postulate that anything with some degree of consciousness somehow retains some spark of the uncreated, primordial free will. If this were not so, we could not define concepts of responsibility, which after all are central to any ethics. For this reason, pretty much all religious systems recognize some degree of free will, no matter how they otherwise may tend to restrict this.

Gurdjieff's description of the default state of man is nearly behavioristic, involving next to no free will. Still, Gurdjieff's whole work strives towards opening a window through which this free will might manifest. In this sense, Gurdjieff is diametrically and fundamentally opposed to any deterministic school of thought.

The greatest problem for manifested free will at the human level is that man is not one: One I wills, another does not, a third is not even aware of the whole question.

In Life Is Only Real Then When I Am, Gurdjieff introduces the dictum 'I Am, I Can, I Wish.' From the book:

'Only such a man, when he consciously says "I am"-he really is; "I can"-he really can; "I wish"-he really wishes. When "I wish"-I feel with my whole being that I wish, and can wish. This does not mean that I want, that I need, that I like or, lastly, that I desire. No. "I wish." I never like, never want, I do not desire anything and I do not need anything-all this is slavery; if "I wish" something, I must like it, even if I do not like it. I can wish to like it, because "I can." I wish-I feel with my whole body that I wish. I wish-because I can wish.' [End quote]

Free will has nothing to do with desires, it is unconditioned, it is for its own sake, yet it is not arbitrary or random, it may have a direction which is a reason unto itself. The free will possible to man in this sense is far from the possibility of arbitrary indulgence which is often the only thing modern Western discourse understands with freedom.

I found that if I say the prayer often enough, and repeat it sincerely and focus on the words then soon it becomes something deeply emotional and it’s as if my whole being is participating more and more in the saying of it. Even though there is sometimes a zoning out to what may be (seemingly) a ‘higher world,’ when I come back to my ordinary state of consciousness there is a more and more unified feeling about it all, the prayer becomes something that is much more emotional for me.

 

[agni]

Hi girls & guys !

[quote author=Iron]
Something similar happened to me yesterday. Lots of pain where the wisdom teeth is located, the pain radiating to the neck and top of the head. It lasted for many hours.
Dont know if its somewhat related.
[/quote]

Hmm... Sounds quite similar. Right shoulder/neck(still there) -> tonsils -> upper left empty wisdom tooth socket -> left ear.

[quote author=Hildegarda]
tonsils, if I remember correctly, represent angry words that were swallowed at one point, and also stifled and repressed feelings. So it seems entirely possible that things came up in breathing practice. It's a good thing you have taken care of it and are feeling better physically now.
[/quote]

Hildegarda, what does it mean "angry words that were swallowed" ? I do not think I understand.
Any suggestions, where I can read about stuff like that which body part/pain responsible for what ? If not too much to ask.

[quote author=Hildegarda]hmm -- I have been having a TMJ flare up with pretty localized pain in my lower molars (my wisdom teeth were extracted 8 years ago, and I had TMJ ever since). Feeling congested, too, even though I am not sick and have no allergies usually. Didn't think of connecting it to the breathing practices, but it may very well be related. [/quote]

You have TMJ flare up for 8 years ??? Does it come & go ? Or is it constant ? Are you getting enough sleep ?