Esoteric Music Theory

Laura

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Good grief, spare me that Keys of Solomon business. There was no Solomon, no temple, no keys; it's a load of nonsense based on another load of anti-historical nonsense, Judaism and mainstream Christianity.
 

Laura

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Repeatedly in ancient texts one reads that some disaster occurred, or a bad omen was detected in some way, and the seers of various sorts (don't ask, some of it pretty gruesome) determined that the correct propitiation was to march and sing to appease the god/goddess/gods. You can find some of the more recent accounts of these types of remedies in Julius Obsequens "Book of Prodigies" which was a compilation from the works of the ancient roman historian, Livy. De prodigiis was constructed as an account of the wonders and portents that occurred in Rome between 249 BC-12 BC.

Later, Pliny wrote about the early Christians, how the only thing they were doing was gathering at dawn to sing praises to the rising sun. There are fragments of several hymns in the writings of Paul in the NT that text critics have discerned within the text as being quite old.

Going back to Mesopotamian times, similar accounts are given of temple singers and choruses made up of young children or virgins who were, apparently, pleasing to the gods especially when they sang.

There are a few other references along this line scattered through the most ancient writings.

Now, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this: just exactly what kinds of songs were they singing? They were Paeans...

Working my way through this question has taken some time, but just to give some examples of the most legitimate possibilities, have a look/listen here:

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" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

As you can probably figure out, ancient music was fairly sophisticated and quite melodic. So this is probably pretty close to what the ancients thought the Gods liked. Notice the Paean to Apollo in the last video starting after 10 minutes. Notice that it is actually rather reminiscent of Gregorian chant.
 

mkrnhr

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the Koran is a derived text and the ideas contained within. The effort to conceal this is evident to text critics. The most interesting theory is that Islam grew out of a group of sectarians similar to the Dead Sea Scrolls sect, the former having been originally the latter, escaping into Arabia at the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem.
It's a little off the main topic but it is also possible that "originally" Islam didn't develop as a Jewish messianic movement in what is actually Saudi Arabia but more to the north (around Jordan) but a later cover-up (Islam's history is full of cover ups and rewritings) assigned it to the middle of nowhere in the Hidjaz.
 

Laura

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It's a little off the main topic but it is also possible that "originally" Islam didn't develop as a Jewish messianic movement in what is actually Saudi Arabia but more to the north (around Jordan) but a later cover-up (Islam's history is full of cover ups and rewritings) assigned it to the middle of nowhere in the Hidjaz.
Maybe start a topic about Islam if there isn't one. I haven't read that particular theory in any academic sources with which I am familiar.
 

BlackCartouche

Jedi Master
With the science behind sound-power to influence matter and magnetics, such as the 'cancelling out' of gravity to levitate blocks of stone and moved into position, with understanding the power of music being that of sound-vibrations in ordered harmonious sequence to powerfully influence emotions mind and soul on a deeply profound level, is surely intrinsically entwined in cymatics. 4D entities would know this and so did we once upon a time.
I remember watching I thought to be quite a good on-line vid a few years back called "Ancient Knowledge" by "Killuminati" that covered quite a bit of this aspect of influencing sound and our relationship to it - especially in ancient times. It touches on ancient letters for written language being actual representations of patterns formed of matter produced by pitched sound-frequencies finely honed and accentuated. I searched the forum and saw @trendsetter37 already brought "Ancient Knowledge" to attention a few years back (but nothing seemed to have come of it)

Ancient Knowledge Series on youtube

The full movie is very long and explores quite a lot of different stuff such as mathematics (as its all relevant) - and the "Killuminati" producer/s do quite a good job weaving everything together I thought. I certainly think its worth having a watch if not already done so - even if the style may not gel to everyone's taste. I'm fairly certain "Killuminati" is familiar with the Forum - perhaps even an active Cassie past or present.

Here's the full movie here if anyone is interested: (see approx. 3:40:00 in and 4:40:00 in for more directly relevant sound/cymatic related parts)

killuminati ancient knowledge - Bing video

I should add there are parts subject to assumptions here and there... But all you guys here are very intelligent, and will filter accordingly :cool2:
 

yumi

Jedi
we could start from geometry, "triangle L", 3x4x5, that gives us the third, fourth and fifth; for example do mi fa sol ( C E F G), the question would be to know if it is necessary to add some? from a pedagogical point of view, we can learn music rather easily and having fun, if it is modal music, I would say from 4 years old; I speak of it because it is also the object of my work, to make music and its teaching accessible.
 

yumi

Jedi
Musique...
A. - Harmonious or expressive combination of sounds.
1. MYTH, ANTIQ. GR. The Muse (and so I call art as a whole, all that is of the realm of imagination, much as the ancients called Music the whole education) (Vigny,Vérité l'art,1829, p. xi).
♦ Music of the spheres. Musical scale formed by the notes generated, according to Pythagoras, by the various planets turning around the sun (Mus. 1976). Never listen to the music of the spheres, Never stop your eyes on these burning messengers (Noailles,Forces étern.,1920, p.217).
2. The art of expressing oneself through sounds according to rules that vary according to time and civilization.
Prononc. and Orth.: [myzik]. Attn. in Ac. dep. 1694. Étymol. and Hist. 1: Ca 1150 "art de combiner les sons musicaux" (Thebes, ed. G. Raynaud de Lage, 4995: par la gamme chante)

According to Greek authors, Orpheus tamed ferocious animals to the sounds of his Lyra (Grillet,Ancêtres violon, t. 1, 1901, p. xi)

These particles would constantly perform movements of all kinds, sometimes vibratory, sometimes translational; and the physical phenomena, the chemical actions, the qualities of matter that our senses perceive, heat, sound, electricity, even perhaps attraction, would be objectively reduced to these elementary movements.
Bergson, 1889.

Considered as a man, a Newton, a Cuvier, a Heyne, makes a less beautiful sound than an ancient sage, a Solon or a Pythagoras for example (Renan,Avenir sc., 1890, p. 12).
"""
Solon, (born c. 630 BCE—died c. 560 BCE), Athenian statesman, known as one of the Seven Wise Men of Greece (the others were Chilon of Sparta, Thales of Miletus, Bias of Priene, Cleobulus of Lindos, Pittacus of Mytilene, and Periander of Corinth). Solon ended exclusive aristocratic control of the government, substituted a system of control by the wealthy, and introduced a new and more humane law code. He was also a noted poet.

Draco, also spelled Dracon, (flourished 7th century BC), Athenian lawgiver whose harsh legal code punished both trivial and serious crimes in Athens with death—hence the continued use of the word draconian to describe repressive legal measures. The six junior archons (thesmotetai), or magistrates, are said by Aristotle to have been instituted in Athens after 683 BC to record the laws. If this is correct, Draco’s code, which is generally dated to 621, was not the first reduction of Athenian law to writing, but it may have been the first comprehensive code or a revision prompted by some particular crisis. Draco’s …(100 of 184 words)
"""
- Why does Loti always sound the same? (...) - His lyre has only one rope, Bouvard concluded (Proust,Plais. et jours, 1896, p. 100).
 

yumi

Jedi
♦ ANTIQ. MYTH. Daughter of Ares and Aphrodite. It was there that the young Harmony was raised, which Jupiter intended for her as his wife (Dupuis, Orig. cultes,1796, p. 167).PHILOS. Harmony of the spheres. Harmonious sounds that, according to the Pythagoreans, celestial bodies emitted by moving according to harmonic numbers.
 

yumi

Jedi
"3x4x5, that gives us the third, -fourth- and fifth; for example do mi -fa- sol ( C E -F- G)"
...not exactly, a connection with the "4D idea of variable and selective" ?
 

yumi

Jedi
another example with 5 sounds :
E_G-A-B_D, symmetrical shape
(mi sol la si re) "black keys on piano"
 

gnosisxsophia

Jedi Master
Then, there is the issue of the music that imprints a person during vulnerable stages. My mother was extremely fond of the jazzy music of the 40s because that is what was popular during her youth. I find some of it okay, but some of it is irritating - too jazzy, or something hard to describe.

Its funny isn't it, I absolutely LOVE raucous old delta and hill country Blues so you'd think I'd dig Jazz, but it drives me up the wall - sounds like cats fornicating....

what kinds of songs were they singing? They were Paeans...

Always makes me think of the 'C's ;-)
 

yumi

Jedi
Index Gammes

otherwise, from a fifth interval, we can deduce all the harmonics; the question would be to know if we can put the tempered system (and its teaching?) "in the trash"...
 

Laura

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Yumi, could you please place your series of comments in a single post and I'll delete all the scattered ones; saves clutter and is easier on the eye.
 

BlackCartouche

Jedi Master
Repeatedly in ancient texts one reads that some disaster occurred, or a bad omen was detected in some way, and the seers of various sorts (don't ask, some of it pretty gruesome) determined that the correct propitiation was to march and sing to appease the god/goddess/gods. You can find some of the more recent accounts of these types of remedies in Julius Obsequens "Book of Prodigies" which was a compilation from the works of the ancient roman historian, Livy. De prodigiis was constructed as an account of the wonders and portents that occurred in Rome between 249 BC-12 BC.

Later, Pliny wrote about the early Christians, how the only thing they were doing was gathering at dawn to sing praises to the rising sun. There are fragments of several hymns in the writings of Paul in the NT that text critics have discerned within the text as being quite old.

Going back to Mesopotamian times, similar accounts are given of temple singers and choruses made up of young children or virgins who were, apparently, pleasing to the gods especially when they sang.

There are a few other references along this line scattered through the most ancient writings.

Now, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this: just exactly what kinds of songs were they singing? They were Paeans...

Working my way through this question has taken some time, but just to give some examples of the most legitimate possibilities, have a look/listen here:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

As you can probably figure out, ancient music was fairly sophisticated and quite melodic. So this is probably pretty close to what the ancients thought the Gods liked. Notice the Paean to Apollo in the last video starting after 10 minutes. Notice that it is actually rather reminiscent of Gregorian chant.
Paean is also associated with Paeon/Paian the "physician of the Gods" especially regards Apollo: PAEON (Paieon) - Greek Physician of the Gods
I find the word "paean" very similar to "pain" which I thought apt regarding physician of healing. "Pain" and "penalty" derives from Latin "Poena" the spirit of punishment of Nemesis the goddess of divine retribution. I havnt looked into it as yet - but it wouldn't surprise me if Paeon and Poena were male and female counterparts in Graeco-Roman mythology somewhere along the line.

There was a Japanese scientist Masaru Emoto (RIP) who did experiments with sounds, particularly different styles/types of music played and its effects on frozen water-crystals. Positive uplifting music such as Classical Music created beautiful symmetrical patterned water-crystals - whilst 'aggressive' music such as Heavy Metal had an averse affect on the water-crystal structure being made chaotic and ugly. Many 'scientists' are sceptical about his findings, but I think he was onto something. Our 3D bodies are 70% water (interesting the same percentage of water to land ratio on Earth's surface) so imagine the effects excessively played music can have on our Physiology - whether for negativity or positivity.

The word "paean" is also very similar to the Greek god "Pan" - of which the woodwind instrument "pan pipes" come from. As with being a wilderness god, Pan is also the god of "rustic music".

I'm certain this all connects somehow.
 
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