Esoteric Music Theory

[BlackCartouche]

I am not so sure that every story in the bible is accurate especially after reading Laura's book Secret History of The World.

Lol, I would have to say MOST is not accurate! The C's have stated on more than one occasion how much of the Bible are corruptions and perversions of previous rip-offs with fabrications and downright lies inserted over the ages. BUT... There were 'truths' seeded at the source once upon a time: Every successful lie is coated with some truth to make the pill easier to swallow. Myths and Legends are more often than not analogies of actual cosmic and/or esoteric 4D events expressed through symbolism, its meaning twisted and lost over time.

I think you think I think all music is bad. Far from it Goyacobol. When I make a point about the "power" of something can have over us in 3D STS realm, especially a medium as powerful as music, then I tend to argue from a standpoint of its potentially very powerful STS effects over us because we are by definition also STS - and therefor its more important to drive the STS point home. The fact music is in essence so beautiful and uplifting and speaks to the soul on a level like no other, needs no comment.

To quote Arnold Bennett:
"Its language is a language which the soul alone understands, but which the soul can never translate."

As for unity, it is by its very definition STO in essence. Forces of STS use 'unity' as an alliance of convenience. It never lasts, nor is their 'unity' real. STS 'unity' only exists because STO exists... Without STO, STS becomes the snake eating its own tail.

A quote to tie unity with music by Hazrat Inayat Khan:
“Music is the language of the soul; and for two people of different nations or races to unite, there is no better means than music. For music not only unites man to man, but man to God"

 

[goyacobol]

hello,
of "spherical music", language (to express the thought) of birds, poetry and fauna, like phonetics, ethics too? so, "lens and race" ... a focal plane?
otherwise, I was thinking about the pill story.

It is starting to feel like a "perpendicular reality" at times. I feel like I am going in very "spherical" circles here too. My "focal plane" is out of focus.

"The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true!"

The rice and the lentils is like a dangling participle/modifier maybe...???

 

[goyacobol]

Lol, I would have to say MOST is not accurate! The C's have stated on more than one occasion how much of the Bible are corruptions and perversions of previous rip-offs with fabrications and downright lies inserted over the ages. BUT... There were 'truths' seeded at the source once upon a time: Every successful lie is coated with some truth to make the pill easier to swallow. Myths and Legends are more often than not analogies of actual cosmic and/or esoteric 4D events expressed through symbolism, its meaning twisted and lost over time.

I think you think I think all music is bad. Far from it Goyacobol. When I make a point about the "power" of something can have over us in 3D STS realm, especially a medium as powerful as music, then I tend to argue from a standpoint of its potentially very powerful STS effects over us because we are by definition also STS - and therefor its more important to drive the STS point home. The fact music is in essence so beautiful and uplifting and speaks to the soul on a level like no other, needs no comment.

To quote Arnold Bennett:
"Its language is a language which the soul alone understands, but which the soul can never translate."

As for unity, it is by its very definition STO in essence. Forces of STS use 'unity' as an alliance of convenience. It never lasts, nor is their 'unity' real. STS 'unity' only exists because STO exists... Without STO, STS becomes the snake eating its own tail.

A quote to tie unity with music by Hazrat Inayat Khan:
“Music is the language of the soul; and for two people of different nations or races to unite, there is no better means than music. For music not only unites man to man, but man to God"

I like the idea of balance as you do seem to see the positive use for music. I also think the ouroboros analogy is a good one. The unity displayed in black witches covens and the consortium might be seen as examples of STS unity. The Grays don't need much unity since they

They function by interaction with the souls of the Lizard beings

I personally see more disunity in the STO direction. We don't seem to be getting the need for real unity for universal STO values. We sort continue to lament over the "powerful" STS strategies. We should "expect attack" but the counter measures are just as important I think.

 

[yumi]

"The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true!"

The rice and the lentils is like a dangling participle/modifier maybe...??? [/QUOTE]

I try to think in terms of "unifying thought form", a bit like the idea of "thought fertilized by consciousness".
Concerning unity, an "equation" came to mind:
knowledge/variable x choice/selective = unity/reality ,
excuse the shortcut, but I believe it may also reflect the existential need for truth, which "explains" the search in a "unifying STO network", given our context.
Maybe I can translate that into music.

 

[goyacobol]

Maybe I can translate that into music.

That would be nice I think. Good luck to you and maybe you could share it later with us.

 

[BlackCartouche]

I like the idea of balance as you do seem to see the positive use for music. I also think the ouroboros analogy is a good one. The unity displayed in black witches covens and the consortium might be seen as examples of STS unity. The Grays don't need much unity since they



I personally see more disunity in the STO direction. We don't seem to be getting the need for real unity for universal STO values. We sort continue to lament over the "powerful" STS strategies. We should "expect attack" but the counter measures are just as important I think.

We might have different notions defining "unity" in its truest form - or as at least as near as can be within our confines of limited 3D comprehension.
For me, the key component for real/true "unity" must have Love at its core and the ability for each individual member within said unified 'group' (coven/consortium et al) to willingly and selflessly sacrifice for one another's wellbeing. STS does not do this.

 

[BlackCartouche]

"The pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true!"

The rice and the lentils is like a dangling participle/modifier maybe...???

I try to think in terms of "unifying thought form", a bit like the idea of "thought fertilized by consciousness".
Concerning unity, an "equation" came to mind:
knowledge/variable x choice/selective = unity/reality ,
excuse the shortcut, but I believe it may also reflect the existential need for truth, which "explains" the search in a "unifying STO network", given our context.
Maybe I can translate that into music.[/QUOTE]
Hi Yumi
I thoroughly enjoy your enthusiasm for music! You seem to know much about it...
Got a question regards this:

Music of the spheres. Musical scale formed by the notes generated, according to Pythagoras, by the various planets turning around the sun

In light of Pythagoras here, I'm very intrigued with what Eric P Dollard talks about regards the organ masters of old and the organ acoustics created in selected cathedrals when timed with celestial events he mentions in the "Ancient Knowledge" movie I linked earlier in the thread. His interview excerpt is at 4:47:00 killuminati ancient knowledge - Bing video
If what he says has any truth to it - I find it fascinating! Eric P Dollard seems a genuine guy. I've searched for other sources for credible info to cross-reference, but to no avail... So, given your apparent understanding and keen interest in all things music sound and acoustics related, my question is if you think there's anything to Eric's claims - or yourself heard or come across anything similar?

 

[gnosisxsophia]

"Pain" and "penalty" derives from Latin "Poena" the spirit of punishment of Nemesis the goddess of divine retribution.

G'day BlackCartouche,

I'd never thought of that, interesting that Paean relates to 'her' brother then isn't it ?

'The name “Paean” was also commonly used in a general sense to refer to anyone who could save people from evil or calamity and applied to Thanatos, the god of death, who was believed to have the power to deliver men from the sorrow and pains of living. '

The sound and visual appearance of 'aeans', is interesting too isn't, oddly similiar to aeneas, and the relationship between the palindrome 'aea' and Aeaea (in the the context of Laura's penchant for Perseids anyway) is uncanny imo?

Aeaea, the home of the enchantress Circe, daughter of Perseis, sister of Perses. and often equated with the goddess of magic, Hecate - herself also known as Perseis and the only daughter of another Perses!

'The' Hecate that assisted in the 'rescue' of Persephone (Kore), following consultation with Helios (husband of Perseis, father of Perses...)

And 'Circe,' the goddess of magic who not only restored Odysseus to life but also bore him a daughter - Cassiphone......

Coincidentally 'phone' being Greek for 'sound', making Perse and Cassi even more interesting?

And wouldn't ya know it, Cassiphone is also the purported mother of Roma, wife of Aeneas

Which makes the dream below pretty funny too -

...where I found myself being seated at a table with a group, preparing for a presentation. The impression being that the other participants had something to do with the ‘C’s [Laura wasn’t there though?] and we were about to be shown/taught something to do with ‘The Mysteries’.

Then as the screen started to roll a question was asked ‘Who is Aeneas’?

Followed by silence until ‘I’ answered something along of the lines of ‘the progenitor of Rome, ascendant of Caesar’. Which apparently wasn’t the correct answer…..

Because it looks like all roads lead to Roma ...... and Perseis'?

And they're all ladies

I'm certain this all connects somehow.

Man after my own heart.

Cheers

J

 

[BlackCartouche]

G'day BlackCartouche,

I'd never thought of that, interesting that Paean relates to 'her' brother then isn't it ?

'The name “Paean” was also commonly used in a general sense to refer to anyone who could save people from evil or calamity and applied to Thanatos, the god of death, who was believed to have the power to deliver men from the sorrow and pains of living. '

The sound and visual appearance of 'aeans', is interesting too isn't, oddly similiar to aeneas, and the relationship between the palindrome 'aea' and Aeaea (in the the context of Laura's penchant for Perseids anyway) is uncanny imo?

Aeaea, the home of the enchantress Circe, daughter of Perseis, sister of Perses. and often equated with the goddess of magic, Hecate - herself also known as Perseis and the only daughter of another Perses!

'The' Hecate that assisted in the 'rescue' of Persephone (Kore), following consultation with Helios (husband of Perseis, father of Perses...)

And 'Circe,' the goddess of magic who not only restored Odysseus to life but also bore him a daughter - Cassiphone......

Coincidentally 'phone' being Greek for 'sound', making Perse and Cassi even more interesting?

And wouldn't ya know it, Cassiphone is also the purported mother of Roma, wife of Aeneas

Which makes the dream below pretty funny too -




Because it looks like all roads lead to Roma ...... and Perseis'?

And they're all ladies




Man after my own heart.

Cheers

J

G'day gnosisxsophia -- slappin' a snag on the barbie! Now where's me esky?... Ripper mate!!!

There could also be a link with "paean" and the Greek letter "Pi" Π - very significant with the circle: "the numerical value of the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter (approximately 3.14159)."
Being 'phonetic' was, apparently, more important to the earlier Phoenicians of which Greek alphabet is derived - because, I believe, of maintaining purity of sound-pronunciation. "Phone" and "phonetic" comes from "Phoenician" - of which the phoenix was associated with and its association with regeneration via destruction and rebirth... The bird of Heliopolis of Egypt (and Heliopolis (Baalbek) of Phoenicia?)
Paean in the phonetic context (and closely writ) could literally mean "Pi-ean" as everything 'Circle' was a big focal point in math and ancient esoterica, and of understanding divine connection... As such, the nature of Time also comes strongly into play with circles... So I find it interesting the link with "aea" and Aeaea because its root-base is likely to link with "aeon" and all that entails with meaning Time, of the Ages, Life, "vital force", and its philosophy and mysticism herein: Aeon - Wikipedia

There's goddess Circe of Aeaea you mentioned, of which can mean "encircled" or "loop around" from Greek "kirkoô" and a good likelihood for our word "circle". Here's a bit about goddess Circe/Kirke: CIRCE (Kirke) - Greek Goddess of Sorcery, Sorceress of Aeaea

connections connections everywhere... oh what tangled webs we weave...

Man after my own heart.

Careful there... My late grandmother (RIP) was certain we (my family and I) have a snippet of direct lineage to the Aztecs, LOL.

 

[gnosisxsophia]

G'day gnosisxsophia -- slappin' a snag on the barbie! Now where's me esky?... Ripper mate!!!

Stone the crows and strike me roan, I wasn't aware that you were fluent in 'Strayan cobber!!

"Phone" and "phonetic" comes from "Phoenician" - of which the phoenix was associated with and its association with regeneration via destruction and rebirth...

And funny you should mention Phoenix in relation to the phonetics of 'Cassi' and 'Perse', as I find it super intriguing that mythology has 'another' Cassiopeia who was wife to King Phoenix.

And this Phoenix appears to be either the cousin, brother or brother in law of Danaus, first of the Danaans -

I discovered that Cassiopaea was equated with Danu, or Don, as in Tuatha de Danaan, or the court of the goddess Danu. So, in other words, the supreme goddess of the Aryans was Cassiopaea.

Thus also Danae - Mother of Perseus.

Making Cassiopeia's 'mothers' of both Andromeda and Perseus.

Then there's the peculiar relationship to the 'Date Palm Tree', which is Phoinix in Greek, with the meaning of 'palm tree' (and ‘purple heron’) also being Bennu, which is the Egyptian word for Phoenix!

And the palm tree is obviously also the sacred symbol of rebirth, commonly associated with Isis (as is the Persea, a Laurel............)-

it occurs to me that the similarity between the imagery of Queen Cassiopaea and Isis is quite striking. What is the relationship between Queen Cassiopaea, archetypally speaking, and Isis?

A: Subliminal.

Bringing us back to Cassiopiea again!

Plus the peculiar coincidence that 'Tamar' is Hebrew for palm tree and Tamar (by Judah) was apparently the mother of Pāreṣ for who Persis (Persia) was named?

Which leads to the Achaemenids (First Persian Empire), founded by Cyrus the Great whose wife is of course named Cassandane (managing to squeeze both Cassiopiea AND Danae into one name ) and named for Achaemenes who happens to be co-identified with Perses the son of Perseus and Andromeda!

Making for an interesting synchrony with Laura's discussion of 'Andromeda' as the granddaughter of Ishmael (Arabus) in TSHOTW, as 'Tamar' is the grandaughter in-law of Isaac. Making Perseus and Andromeda sort of a super Hebrew / Persian Romeo and Juliet (with a happy ending) and cousins to boot!!!

There's goddess Circe of Aeaea you mentioned, of which can mean "encircled" or "loop around" from Greek "kirkoô" and a good likelihood for our word "circle".

Yeah around in circles is pretty accurate mate

Careful there... My late grandmother (RIP) was certain we (my family and I) have a snippet of direct lineage to the Aztecs, LOL.

That's pretty cool

I'll leave any phonetic analysis of Tōnacācihuātl for the moment though....

Cheers

J

 

[Laura]

Don't bring Pythagoras' alleged theories in unless you have researched them. There's a whole load of nonsense that began with the Neo-Platonists where, basically, they just made stuff up and attributed it to Pythagoras. Right off the top of my head, I can highly recommend Walter Burkert's "Lore and Science in Ancient Pythagoreanism"; Radcliffe G. Edmonds III, "Redefining Ancient Orphism"; Same author "The Orphic Gold Tablets and Greek Religion"; Carl A. Huffman, Ed. "A History of Pythagoreanism".

Keep in mind that Pythagoreanism was probably derived from Orphism and what we know of either of them is filtered through Plato and other philosophers and Plato was a plagiarist and poseur.

It is usually a good idea when you read anything to ask "sez who?" and start tracking back through the sources of the sources of the sources. There's a great book by John Dillon that takes you through it and where you can see how people just made stuff up: "The Middle Platonists: 80 B.C. to A.D. 220". Then: "The Heirs of Plato: A Study of the Old Academy (347-274 BC)" and "The Platonic Heritage: Further Studies in the History of Platonism and Early Christianity".

Then, if you want to go even further, there is Mary Bachvarova's "From Hittite to Homer: The Anatolian Background of Ancient Greek Epic". That demonstrates the connection of Greek ideas to much more ancient times and acts as a bridge between Greece and ancient Mesopotamia. At this point, you'll want to read "Philosophy Before the Greeks" by Marc van de Mieroop. That's where you really get down to understanding how people came up with stuff, though understanding the background helps a lot. For that, you'll need to read Victor Clube "The Cosmic Serpent". And if you are really digging, you'll start reading translations of the ancient cuneiform texts themselves. If you have some extra time, you'll learn a little Sumerian and Akkadian.

I'm just hitting the highlights here and mentioning the really meaty books on these topics; along the way I read a lot of less interesting or believable books. You really have to weed through stuff. The bottom line is that, yes, there is something furiously interesting behind our reality, and involving number and music/tones, but it is most likely NOT what has been promulgated down through the ages. Those STS dudes got in their pretty early and started twisting and distorting stuff. You have to be very thorough and go very deep to find the gems in the mud.

 

[gnosisxsophia]

Don't bring Pythagoras' alleged theories in unless you have researched them. There's a whole load of nonsense that began with the Neo-Platonists where, basically, they just made stuff up and attributed it to Pythagoras. Right off the top of my head, I can highly recommend...

Hi Laura,

Thank you for the reply and recommendations and I'm glad the list is only 'off the top of your head' or I think I'd need another lifetime

And sorry I didn't mean to allude to any particular theories or 'authors', simply commenting on the curious 'all roads lead to perseids' connections.

Which happen to be dominating my dreams at the moment also.

Plato was a plagiarist and poseur.

Haha yes, and I had picked up previously you're not his greatest fan

Then, if you want to go even further, there is Mary Bachvarova's "From Hittite to Homer: The Anatolian Background of Ancient Greek Epic". That demonstrates the connection of Greek ideas to much more ancient times and acts as a bridge between Greece and ancient Mesopotamia. At this point, you'll want to read "Philosophy Before the Greeks" by Marc van de Mieroop. That's where you really get down to understanding how people came up with stuff, though understanding the background helps a lot. For that, you'll need to read Victor Clube "The Cosmic Serpent". And if you are really digging, you'll start reading translations of the ancient cuneiform texts themselves. If you have some extra time, you'll learn a little Sumerian and Akkadian.

Thank you for these too, after reading your 'Comets and the Horns of Moses' (which was excellent btw) I've been keeping an eye out specifically for Clubes book, but it's a bit pricey down here and I suspect you've already picked the eyes out of it anyway ?

Marc van de Mieroop looks particularly interesting, time to fold and get a Kindle to go with the Kobo I think (hate e-readers )

And while we're on Comets as gods and continuing the topic of the Phoenix (or particularly the 'Bennu') - as a self created being - perhaps like the mirroring of Andromeda/Perseus and unification of Cassiopeia/Danae as single entities -

A: All should think of the "Queen Bee" and the goose and the golden egg. It is not over by a longshot.

I've gotta say I've been wondering if the imagery of the 'Queen Bee' (as in Neith for example) and the 'long shot' statement in the last session could possibly be a reference to the 'Benben' stone and therefore the approaching Nemesis/comet cluster, as the epigenetic agent of the 'philosophers stone' - androgyny?

I'm just hitting the highlights here and mentioning the really meaty books on these topics; along the way I read a lot of less interesting or believable books....You have to be very thorough and go very deep to find the gems in the mud.

And unfortunately I don't have suitable words of appreciation for this mighty and ongoing effort....


Although you may enjoy that the only thing I could remember from dreaming this morning was the name 'Tycho Brahe'?

Which raised a smile when learning that he was an Alchemist (as well as Astronomer) and in the 16th Century, wrote 'De nova stella', after the unexpected appearance of a new 'star' in the constellation Cassiopeia!

Very 'Percy-ing the Veil' I thought

And he was a Dane, which I guess was a humorous response to the Cassandane comment earlier

Thanks again

Love from here

J

 

[Eulenspiegel]

Plato was a plagiarist and poseur.

Thanks for that reading list! Been meaning to read up on Orphism.
Do any of these books explain how you've come to that conclusion about Plato? Plato seems to be held in high esteem everywhere I look, so I find this bit intriguing and would like to know more!

 

[Laura]

Thanks for that reading list! Been meaning to read up on Orphism.
Do any of these books explain how you've come to that conclusion about Plato? Plato seems to be held in high esteem everywhere I look, so I find this bit intriguing and would like to know more!

Read "The Horns of Moses" for a fuller exposition.

 

[John G]

In general if you are starting with esoteric music or sacred geometry, I think what you want to end up with is a good modern information theory (from which you can derive good modern geometry). This has the advantage that it doesn't really matter if the esoteric connection is genuine since you have put it in modern terms that can stand on their own if needed. It's like that other thread where pineal/pituitary glands are being treated in an esoteric way. If you get to the modern idea that this relates to resetting your autonomic nervous system then it really doesn't matter if the esoteric connection is good because you have the modern idea that can stand on its own without any esoteric connection.

I like looking at the esoteric enneagram and related things like Llull's wheels and the sefirot but it's the real geometry behind them that interests me. For the enneagram which is actually used as a modern personality model, there's even a modern reason for paying attention to this sacred geometry. The real personality geometry for me tends to break things up into inward/outward descriptors. This relates for me to the restriction/expansion and Laura's use of the sefirot for STS/STO (and even Ark's use for a Kaluza-Klein internal/external spacetime). For me the music stuff just ends up with the same information/geometry math. I could supply some links for how to get there but I'm not even sure I like the argument even though I like where the argument ends up.

Some of us got here after first checking out more mainstream or more esoteric religions and they got us here even if they had lots of things wrong. You can kind of do the same thing with music, geometry, health, etc. We here don't have all the right ideas right off the bat either; it was kind of in hindsight where we were going that was important. At this point though I think a lot of things are amazingly well figured out though there are still in progress exploration of niches (human origins, autonomic nervous system, science of spirituality, how theorized earth/human changes play out exactly aka wait and see, etc.).

Certainly nothing wrong with going through the ideas of others that are already figured out. Just keeping up with Collingwood's thought process when reading him is quite challenging. If you have a particular niche area of study, there's nothing wrong with trying to go deeper into it. I used to use cellular automata algorithms at IBM; I recently tried matching cellular automata rules to Pertti Lounesto primitive idempotent terms aka something that would have zero practical benefit to me back when I was at IBM. I think in the reading Collingwood sense, this is beneficial, but you don't want to get too lost in it at the expense of more practical things.