Experiment with the spirit board -lies coming through it & how to recognize them

[Meager1]

By not accepting something or mistrusting something they immediately invent something of their own in its place. 'Gagging' begins —new theories and new explanations which have nothing in common either with the work or with what I have said.

I wasn`t going to say anything in this thread because frankly I don`t know what to think about all this.

I`ll just say that I too, tried using a board a few years back, but realized that this wasn`t the best of ideas and have not touched it since that time. But what I found interesting, was my own conclusion at the time,which was that we have "teachers" here using the board and that the answers being given to them, are what we need to be receiving, not what we think we should be receiving by doing this ourselves.

The information as given to us, by the C`s through Laura and Ark is very precise and exacting because they know "how" to ask the right questions and have had years of experience in the use a "machine" such as this. The only reason I can think of for anyone wanting to try this on their own would be if they were to assume that they could get "better" answers then what we are already being given, or that they could somehow do it better and wow the "audience".
Which of course, would likely be the reason behind this particular effort in question.

When I tried it, is was more of a "hope" for personal information, nothing that would have ever been posted on FB or anywhere else public.

So I just have a hard time grokking the "actual intent", behind this whole thing.

 

[Voyageur]

The below was what was withheld from posting 24 hours ago because of Laura's words regarding waiting for Sasha & Ljubica to reply. Since it is apparent that this has not happened, at least here, these were my thoughts last night.

[quote author=Herr Eisenheim]
I think the seeds for this intention were planted by something else. But at this point we have to hope that the reality of this grave situation has sank for both Sasha and Ljubica, that they have clear their mind and they will find strength to talk to the network sincerely and free of installed influences. [/quote]

Having gone back through many posts by Sasha and Ljubica, looking for changes or anomalies, what was noticed was that first, did not realize the extent of how Herr Eisenheim helped both overcome some obstacles with things such as Bandwidth and much more. This brings into context Herr Eisenhiem's great disappointment, amongst having personal connections, too; very understandable. Also though, Sasha especially has worked very hard at many things related to EE and both S & L have navigated their websites and efforts in a seemingly beneficial way that seems (at that time) to be in concert with this main forum; at least that is what was noticed.

Something however seems to have changed since holding open sessions back in June; although this is not substantiated. Expanding contacts and connections became apparent moving forward from that point. If one looks at these connections one might see something else or not. Considering both their work to that point, nothing indicates other than good effort to help others. There seemed to be no post focus on channeling, comets or spirit boards; except for the discussions that were verbal, osit. That been said, what happened?

[quote author=Mr. Scott]
Unless we know what actually happened, we cannot help.

The key is to know how things started, and how they progressed. Just because 1 person had the idea doesn't mean they will be immediately crucified. That's not the point at all.

The point is that if we don't know exactly what happened, we cannot see the finer energies and nuances of the situation that will allow us, collectively, to figure out what the heck is going on - and to take appropriate action to "fix" the situation.

Remember, if you are dealing with other-worldy energies or entities - or even a plain vanilla psychopath - you are SERIOUSLY SCREWED without the experience of the network.

And THAT is why we need details. [/quote]

And Mr. Scott says this well, imo, as does PoB below; essentially you're asked both again, to help yourselves, to help us help you.

[quote author=Possibility of Being]
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone."

There are many members here who've got their second, third, and fourth chance. As long as one wants to learn there is a place for them in this forum. It would be rather empty otherwise by now. We haven't turned the last page of this book yet, far from that. We're still at the introduction. Every and anything is still possible, OSIT.[/quote]

There is something pivotal here Sasha and Ljubica that you may not want to see, refuse to see or have even thought about; and it may not be what you think. This is why when it was said in various posts of your(s);

Sasha has a valid point - Work is possible only through proper networking. It looks like this is possible only on this forum and only in English language.

Also

We shouldn't get caught in "messiah/preacher role" with people and should keep in mind that they, as all of us, should put forward for themselves. We can only light them the path, they're the ones who have to take it.

Also, our community is in big part built around this forum and English is our language of communication here. Whoever doesn't want to make effort to learn at least some of it won't be able to properly network and, as you probably know, network is one of the key elements in the story.

- that there is reason to look at the chronology of thinking, contacts and actions. Your words above were all about networking. Cheery picking was not the intent of the above references, it was to understand thinking and the thinking at the time seems to be in alignment with the aims of the network; so again, what went wrong? With respect to the forum and networking, when webs develop in thinking or actions, it is the efforts of others to look a each strand, weigh and measure; this is what both of you know to be so.

Laura’s quotes from G are extremely important, so hope you both have the discernment to read them well and communicate in the ‘I’, in a detailed recapitulation that can help others look at the factors involved.

 

[adam7117]

Let me just say that if real answers are not brought forward within the next 24 hours, we can only conclude that Sasa has been co-opted by the forces of STS via Ljubica. Or both of them have been co-opted via some other vector.

Found this thread while checking the forum late last night (still in Poland visiting mum and relatives). This is pretty full-on and I can see everyone is really concerned about what has taken place - perhaps, too much emotional thinking and feeding for my liking but - hey - whatever rocks your boat.

Some responses make me wonder whether the problem here is that people are worried about S and L and Z being hurt - or if it is a self-centred worry about personal safety. Or whether previous associations with SLZ might make them look bad and then be ostracised from the group. Fear is counter-productive here, is it not?

It's an impression - happy to be wrong. I'm looking at this whole thing from the outside, so to speak.

In any case, the ball does not seem to be rolling so I thought to give it a nudge. Laura's comment above was interesting, though, Sasa appears to be more of a ring-leader than Ljubica. Ljubica seems to follow and protect those dominant over her and hides behind her husband, who is likely to be a strong personality. Sasa is "the man", as is projected.

Unless, Ljubica is passive-aggressive and manipulates others with the "poor me" program. Which is also possible.

A quick look at the "then" revealed the following interesting bits of information. They are self-evident to those with the eyes. Ljubica's posts merely reveal the pattern of admiration of Sasa and external attacks on her (the accidents are a definite worry!).

I had a dream last night that produced quite strong emotions in me and, upon waking up, got me thinking.

I remember noticing some kind of fuss at the place where I've been and going for the sound of the fuss to see what it's about.

I entered the area which is like a medieval dungeon place, and I'm going directly to the door at the far end. The door is open and inside I see big pile of some green slime with kind of fat tentacle (could be proboscis) going from right side and up, over the top of this pile, to the left.

As it started to move (could be breathing movements) I became aware that it's alive and felt really scared. Immediately I jumped outside of the room/dungeon trying to close wooden door behind me but somehow wasn't able to.

Then run to the exit, where another door was, and screaming all the way for someone to help me. I managed to pass the doorway, shut the door behind me but didn't manage to slide the bolt. I was scared beyond imagination even before the thing came to the door and the door started to slowly open.

Still screaming for help and fighting to lock the door, some female figure (I perceived her as older one, meaning that I could have been small - maybe a kid and a mother?) came down the stairs, slowly and nonchalantly, like "what's going on here?" and just stood few meters away observing. At that point I succeeded to slide the bolt and lock the door (although remembering that there wasn't such a strong push from other side) and then turned to look through opening at the door (like the openings on the dungeon doors).

What I saw quite surprised me. There was a cartoon-like baby elephant with big, big eyes full of tears. And then I woke up.

I woke up confused and with questions racing my mind. What was this scary slimy pile, why didn't she help me and most of all what was this baby elephant with such big, beautiful, cartoon watery eyes doing there? And what am I so scared of? To this last question an answer appeared that I'm scared, once let outside, that I won't be able to handle it (whatever it is).

...and this...

(...)

And then came the POTS part.

Almost as soon I heard Laura's voice saying first POTS, strange feeling/sensation appeared in my head. It was like, with my eyes closed, my mind was seeing/observing things from higher position, if that makes any sense. Like something was activated in there (head) and that intellectual center stepped on higher ground.

I had some glimpses of a similar sensations in the past, during which time I was swimming in the swamp of New Age stuff, so expectedly all kinds of New Age BS thoughts came jumping in shortly after this sensation occurred last night. Previously these thoughts patterns would quite easily produce annihilation effect, but last night my mind just observed them, with sort of a smile on "his" face, and watched them pass by.

The sensation remained through the whole POTS part, and after Laura finished I continued with POTS on Croatian in my head, during which sensation slowly decreased, not disappeared, with pronounced sensation of slight heaviness in frontal part of my head. With this "high observer" sensation subsiding, other "usual" sensations (like energy flows, "plate on my head", mass under the ribs and in chest, ...) became more noticeable.

As I became more accustomed to this strange "state" I started slowly to drift away, during which a visual appeared; I was standing (or sitting) in front of very high hedge, the hedge was all in flowers (I can't say what kind exactly) and going in a semicircular way in front of me, with me at the center of imagined circle.

Well, at the point where I became conscious about what I was looking at, my mind jumped in with "stupid" thoughts like "Is this a fence?", "What's behind it?" and the visual just dispersed.

In the morning I woke up with a hangover and slightly stiffed back of my neck. The "high observer" sensation was gone, but that haven't been bothering me, in fact I haven't even thought about that until just now writing this post.

Funny...

Not really all that funny. Anywhoo, Psalehesost has expressed some very valid points there. I would suggest that he is not dismissed without careful consideration. He, indeed, is able to "taste" such things. ;)

And, Laura - yes, this does, in fact, mean that you may need to expend energy on the topic of channelling - sooner than anticipated. It is simply forcing your hand - people are going to start doing it whether we like it or not. Knowledge Protects - and with everything else that is taking place at the moment, this may be a sign of the underlying currents that need to be counteracted. If you get my drift...

2c.

 

[Keit]

Let me just say that if real answers are not brought forward within the next 24 hours, we can only conclude that Sasa has been co-opted by the forces of STS via Ljubica. Or both of them have been co-opted via some other vector.

Found this thread while checking the forum late last night (still in Poland visiting mum and relatives). This is pretty full-on and I can see everyone is really concerned about what has taken place - perhaps, too much emotional thinking and feeding for my liking but - hey - whatever rocks your boat.

Some responses make me wonder whether the problem here is that people are worried about S and L and Z being hurt - or if it is a self-centred worry about personal safety. Or whether previous associations with SLZ might make them look bad and then be ostracised from the group. Fear is counter-productive here, is it not?

I think it's important to understand something crucial. And here I write to everyone who replied with being surprised at the strong response Sasha and Ljubica got, and called it emotional response or programs running. In any case, what follows is my personal take on this, so fwiw.

Ponerization process is slow and insidious one, and it begins with one choosing to believe lies, either about oneself or someone else, and then this in its turn leaves an opening for further corruption and degradation of thought processes. It's a choice one makes when the initial battle has been lost either due to laziness or ego, or self-importance, or what ever program that prevented a person to make a harder choice of not falling in confluence with the predator.

Now, another element is being part of the network. If a person is by himself, then it is his free will to do what ever he chooses, even if it means being on a fast track toward self-destruction. But here we are dealing with a situation where forum members, while one or more of them are FOTCM members, and one of them is even EE teacher with much greater responsibility, chose to do something that is not only detrimental to themselves, but also to the network. If you can't see how exactly it can be detrimental to all, and why it is both personal responsibility of each and every one of us and also the network to make sure that things like this are not taken lightly, then reread forum introduction and Gurdjieff's concept of the esoteric circle.

Picture ponerization process being a cancerous growth in a body. At first there is a breach in the defenses, then one cell mutates and that leads to the mutation of another, and so on and on. The beginning of the attack is seemingly insignificant and small, and can take years to become manifested, but it's a serious threat non the less, both for the affected cell and for the entire body. In this case, being gentle and nice is not only the wrong approach, it's dangerous and stupid. Just take one look around you and see how our society is in shambles and why nothing worthwhile is allowed to grow to something meaningful, simply because people are choosing to tiptoe and negotiate with something that shouldn't be tolerated under any circumstances.

Don't know if you did the "Authoritarian" test in another thread, but this is one instant where it is right to be totally authoritarian when it comes to not accepting and not tolerating pathology. Thus, proper response to slithering evil is showing it in an unambiguous way that it won't be allowed to linger and grow. It's not an attack on a person who forgot himself and made a mistake, it's anger and taking defensive actions against the pathology that was allowed in. And since this person is part of the network, this has to be dealt with swiftly before more damage can be done. Just think of the response as the response of leukocytes (white blood cells) toward something detrimental in the body. We wouldn't be alive for long if instead of doing their job they would contemplate on maybe lessening their emotional responses.

No one is rejected and no one is crucified. It's the pathology that is shown the way out. And it's a person's choice what to do afterwards, including deciding what would be best for the network and himself, and what he should do to prevent such occurrences in the future. But network has to do what it has to do to protect itself and others. Zero tolerance for pathology.

Anyway, these are my thoughts.

edit: grammar

 

[Laura]

Thanks for that, Keit. Yes, indeed, there are some of you who wanted to make nice with Vinnie Bridges still running that same old program.

 

[Human]

My internet access at the moment is limited, it will probably be back in normal somewhere at the end of the following week.
Since my last visit here there were 7 pages in this thread, so I need some time to catch up with things.

 

[Z...]

This is pretty full-on and I can see everyone is really concerned about what has taken place - perhaps, too much emotional thinking and feeding for my liking but - hey - whatever rocks your boat.

I am actually surprised that long term member of this network would write something so detached and disjointed as this. Do you come to this forum for light entertainment?

Some responses make me wonder whether the problem here is that people are worried about S and L and Z being hurt - or if it is a self-centred worry about personal safety. Or whether previous associations with SLZ might make them look bad and then be ostracised from the group. Fear is counter-productive here, is it not?

Adam what on earth are you talking about?!
There is only one person here apart from chateau team (istina hasn't really posted that much on this thread) who was involved with SLZ. That would be me, so why not using the names? Yes I was involved with them on different projects with full blessing of the network I dont have any regrets about it and certainly I am not ashamed or afraid. Rather then fear the only thing I have now is extreme worry for the safety of the people involved in this drama. Haven't you understood this so far or you just flicked through the thread? If you see something that might be in my blind spot please be more specific and point it out.

It's an impression - happy to be wrong. I'm looking at this whole thing from the outside, so to speak.

Well it was my impression you were on the inside, part of the network that is. I am surprised you are unable to see and feel what is this all about and how actions of every member of the group have potential to endanger the entire network.

In any case, the ball does not seem to be rolling so I thought to give it a nudge. Laura's comment above was interesting, though, Sasa appears to be more of a ring-leader than Ljubica. Ljubica seems to follow and protect those dominant over her and hides behind her husband, who is likely to be a strong personality. Sasa is "the man", as is projected.

Unless, Ljubica is passive-aggressive and manipulates others with the "poor me" program. Which is also possible.

A quick look at the "then" revealed the following interesting bits of information. They are self-evident to those with the eyes. Ljubica's posts merely reveal the pattern of admiration of Sasa and external attacks on her (the accidents are a definite worry!).

do you really think these superficial assumptions help the situation we are currently dealing with

He, indeed, is able to "taste" such things. ;)

I hope you are not implying he has "psychic" abilities. I think one "psychic" is enough to deal with on this thread.

It is simply forcing your hand - people are going to start doing it whether we like it or not. Knowledge Protects - and with everything else that is taking place at the moment, this may be a sign of the underlying currents that need to be counteracted. If you get my drift...

Again adam I am afraid I am completely missing your point.

 

[Breton]

This is pretty full-on and I can see everyone is really concerned about what has taken place - perhaps, too much emotional thinking and feeding for my liking but - hey - whatever rocks your boat.

I am actually surprised that long term member of this network would write something so detached and disjointed as this. Do you come to this forum for light entertainment?

Let me chime in, that I had very similar kind of thought as Herr Eisenheim.

I sure do not like it when anyone makes general or vague suggestions in a thread that there is "emotional thinking and feeding" going on. If such a thing is going on, then if you are going to add any value at all, be specific, so it can be addressed. Sometimes you will find it is only your own programs that are running. Which is a good thing to find BTW.

 

[istina]

My internet access at the moment is limited, it will probably be back in normal somewhere at the end of the following week.
Since my last visit here there were 7 pages in this thread, so I need some time to catch up with things.

That is all Saša?? You left forum and you did not "catch" ANYTHING?!

 

[Lilou]

My internet access at the moment is limited, it will probably be back in normal somewhere at the end of the following week.
Since my last visit here there were 7 pages in this thread, so I need some time to catch up with things.

That is all Saša?? You left forum and you did not "catch" ANYTHING?!

I was also surprised to see only this short post from Sasa, with internet access put forth as the reason. I would think both Ljubica and Sasa (independently) would have already spent time writing "the story" of how this little experiment started and then proceeded over several sessions. Does this mean we shouldn't expect any explanations until the end of next week??

[quote author=Laura]
So far, a number of questions have been asked of Sasa and Ljubica and answers have either not been forthcoming, or have been obviously twisted, deflected, or outright avoided. That is clearly a sign of STS in operation.

Let me just say that if real answers are not brought forward within the next 24 hours, we can only conclude that Sasa has been co-opted by the forces of STS via Ljubica. Or both of them have been co-opted via some other vector.

The battle is through you, we are waiting to see who will win. But we won't wait forever.
[/quote]

Regardless of what was said in the last seven pages of this thread, the story of "how this happened" would not change. I am quite concerned about their unwillingness to present what happened in a honest/forthcoming way.

 

[clerck de bonk]

And, Laura - yes, this does, in fact, mean that you may need to expend energy on the topic of channelling - sooner than anticipated.

What credentials do You have to say what Laura should do or not do, concerning this topic at hand?

It is simply forcing your hand - people are going to start doing it whether we like it or not. Knowledge Protects - and with everything else that is taking place at the moment, this may be a sign of the underlying currents that need to be counteracted. If you get my drift...

Exactly what is forcing?

IMO it is You who are forcing Your opinions on somebody (and on a topic that isn't Your forte, but is the forte of the one to be forced).

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Regardless of what was said in the last seven pages of this thread, the story of "how this happened" would not change.

Exactly. The internet connection problem is neither here nor there. Sasa could have posted the whole explanation (instead of two lines) with the same 'limited' internet connection...

 

[Psalehesost]

He, indeed, is able to "taste" such things. ;)

I hope you realize I'm a machine in need of further Work like pretty much everyone here - whatever I come up with in my posts must be looked at critically.

There's nothing "special" about me - I've networked the issue of unusual perceptions - something a number of others here also have, in one way or another - and that's all.

Perhaps - speculation - in finding my posts in this thread to your liking, you identified with the points made and then grasped onto something to support a sense of being firmly "in the right"?

I hope you [adam7117] are not implying he has "psychic" abilities. I think one "psychic" is enough to deal with on this thread.

See above.

 

[Peam]

My internet access at the moment is limited, it will probably be back in normal somewhere at the end of the following week.
Since my last visit here there were 7 pages in this thread, so I need some time to catch up with things.

Limited to what? I would have thought with even limited access you could have opened those 7 pages, each in a new window, then gone offline to read them. Then written your reply offline then copy/pasted it to the forum the next time you re-connect.

Just wondering, is Ljubica having the same internet problem as well?

 

[anart]

Re: Experiment with the spirit board -lies coming through it & how to recognize

adam7117, it appears that you are not thinking at all. Is this due to being at your parents, or is something else going on? It is quite disconcerting.