Experiment with the spirit board -lies coming through it & how to recognize them

Andromeda, if you think it is better for your comunity to ban me, go for it. If that si how i can contribute, as you don't see that i am contributing any how right now, it will be my pleasure to finly give somehing valuable to you guys as i did learn a lot from you. Absurd how it is, but that is how it goes. I maight feel sad for that, and i don't see a point in that threth to me, but "who cares", you "checked me out" i am not of any use, so lets trash her. This is very STO oriented ... :(

On the other things - When one is accused for soemthing what one never did, and that goes so far to end up in this kind of who did what converstation, than what that person can do, apart from providing the evidence, and that is what i did for most false facts i was accused. It was long time ago, so yes it is possible that some things are forgoten that i can't prove with mails ... But than reading what Ljubica projected on me is realy scary though, to see how simple straight forward sentnece, where i even wrote clearly after her explanation what and how they work in MW, that i am not sure if i can contribute with translations and writings, is actualy interpreted on a way that newer was my intention. So before you ban me I hope Ljubica will copy paste and translate all our conversation that happend in few lines in november 2014. So at that time i couldn't even tell her that i visited you. How she found out about that, can be from the forum, or maybe hr sott editor, but not from me, as out of forum, i told that just to very very close friends.

All other things what i read, folow and coment here, and what i am working on, and how i am progressing, you can trace through my account. If that has noting to do with what you are teaching, or helping out, than really no need to vaist your time. So far i don't think so, but who am i to knwo what i do. :(
 
Eärwen said:
I lied to myself and others,

Which others, members of the forum or another, family, friends?

Eärwen said:
, but the most important thing is I can see my programs and I’m fighting against them.
What exactly happened that you could now see yours programs, because as you say, four years have passed, something changed
Eärwen said:
Two years ago I met Dakota, she was searching for answers only forum,
.....................................................
One of the damage control programs was impatience and panic attacks, Dakota helped me a lot with these two because she asked of me to talk about them all the time, and she was demanding direct answers not being happy with short “yes-no” answers. In some situations I could not make a word coming from my mouth, I could actually feel my throat closing to the point of pain. This was really hard to fight with, but Dakota again jumped in with her methods of “let’s talk about it nice and easy,” she is natural born psychotherapist, and I can’t thank her enough.

If you were in such a poor mental state, how could you keep MW?
Why not sought professional help?
 
Chu, do you think since you meet me that i didn't progress, thanks to Forum and stuff i did listen and obsereved when i was with you? I hope i did progress at least 1%, as i put significant effort to it.

I feel this all is getting personal, i hope i am wrong ... if you think or recognize soemthing more dangerous and warning about me, plese let me know about that too, straight forward, as i am obviously not aware of imany things, and i don't want to walk around and do any harm to anyone.

and i do appreshiate all criticism, but i do feel that i have been putt down when i am simply accused for specific things that noone now can rememebr exactly., but i do rememebr. Maybe you just didn't listen to me when i was telling that, as you were feed up with my talks that as ypu said were just most of the time a noise that came out of my insecurity and excitment to be with you guys, and complete absence of knowledeg on many things that i do know now.

i don't want to explain myself any more ... i just want to continue with learning from here where i stoped ... and what ever you wnat to do with me is your choice ... knowledge will find a way tovards those who are sincirely looking for it.
 
solarmind said:
Chu, do you think since you meet me that i didn't progress, thanks to Forum and stuff i did listen and obsereved when i was with you? I hope i did progress at least 1%, as i put significant effort to it.

I feel this all is getting personal, i hope i am wrong ... if you think or recognize soemthing more dangerous and warning about me, plese let me know about that too, straight forward, as i am obviously not aware of imany things, and i don't want to walk around and do any harm to anyone.

and i do appreshiate all criticism, but i do feel that i have been putt down when i am simply accused for specific things that noone now can rememebr exactly., but i do rememebr. Maybe you just didn't listen to me when i was telling that, as you were feed up with my talks that as ypu said were just most of the time a noise that came out of my insecurity and excitment to be with you guys, and complete absence of knowledeg on many things that i do know now.

i don't want to explain myself any more ... i just want to continue with learning from here where i stoped ... and what ever you wnat to do with me is your choice ... knowledge will find a way tovards those who are sincirely looking for it.

It's basically quite simple: a bunch of people is telling you to stop writing apologetic stuff and doing what you're doing, to start listening and reading what others are trying to say to you, really listening all of it, not just parts that "you like". To think about it, maybe (re)read it (several times) again, and think about it some more. To let it sink.
And all that you're doing is one and the same thing: exactly the opposite of what people here are telling you.

edit: spelling/grammar
 
Solarmind, what is your real and the only reason whay you're in this forum, why you went to the house of Laura, why do you want to get in touch with Croatian forum members?

solarmind said:
i don't want to explain myself any more ... i just want to continue with learning from here where i stoped ... and what ever you wnat to do with me is your choice ... knowledge will find a way tovards those who are sincirely looking for it.

It is difficult to accept criticism, disagreement ... so you will never move forward.
Overreact react, before sleep, read all your posts ... realize that you're wrong
 
Saša thank you for simplifiying it ... belive it or not i feelt i have to answer to evry post.

Casper, yes you are right i'll go through it in the morning again, to see where i shut myslef for constructive criticism, i do that evry time with other stuff ... other things you asked i said many times tooday ... answers if you are interested in it, are somwhere within today posts.

Persej - you joking or you want link? it is within ljubica post about me wanabe Laura ;) .. it is "the greatest story never told" link ... that is excelent example how things can get completly oposit perspective with skilfull manipulator
 
Laura said:
Eärwen said:
casper said:
My advice, new threads and explain events from the very beginning, to your eventual return to the forum, why you did certain things, what has changed and whether it changed your view on this forum.
Maybe your story help others. :)

Uh, a new thread, OK I'll try to do it, if other members have same idea about it.

I don't think a new thread is necessary nor a whole "life story" type of thing. Peeps can ask specific questions and that should be sufficient.

I agree with Laura, this is the thread about our board experiment and everything related to it.

Eärwen said:
Saša said:
I think you're missing the point here - similar like we missed the point 4 years ago and had negative thought loops and mutual negative feedbacks lead the show then, all based on totally screwed perception of reality what was happening to us. Each of these was reinforcing the other, and we chose the road we took - nobody forced us to do it - although a hand of help was offered here to pull us out of that illusion.
If you recall it, the then launched MW was not the product of us being "ousted/expelled" because of playing with the board, the same as SOTT editors didn't write to us "removing" the rights to use their material on MW due to that reason.
I wrote the opening post in this thread in bad faith - we already expected the reaction we got here and planned our (re)actions accordingly - remember?
The point, as I see it, was not so much (foolish and childish) playing with the board, it was our thinking, behaviour and actions after that, and complete lack of trust (and faith) in this network at that time, to such extent to had perceived it/them as our enemies.
From your posts so far, I get the impression that you still don't see/understand it, still focusing (mainly solely) on the board play itself.

I understand what you want to say, actually I am grateful for that. Please correct me if I am wrong. You want to say that it is most important to focus, not on "experiment itself" but on that what, mainly I did and think on that time. Of course no body forced us to do it, that was our fee will (in retrospect that is even bigger problem than someone pushed us in that way).

So perhaps than I should focus on why I did not answer on questions forum members asked at the time this thread was made, or to focus on biases and negative loops I had at the same time.

For sure I don't fully see/understand it completely but, that is the reason I am here. I would be extremely naive to think I got it all sorted out, but I am willing to learn and that I can do only on this forum.

I'll think about it and read whole therad couple times in order not to miss anything and will try to give direct answers to questions in it.

I don't think you need to go through the entire thread and reply on every single unanswered question. That was 4 year ago, those posts were written then, in that situation.

The question at this moment is what is your understanding NOW of why we chose THEN not to reply to network asking - why did we "go silent"? Does this understanding differ from what we told each other (and to ourselves) then, and if so in what way and what made the difference?
 
solarmind said:
Persej - you joking or you want link? it is within ljubica post about me wanabe Laura ;) .. it is "the greatest story never told" link ... that is excelent example how things can get completly oposit perspective with skilfull manipulator

Aha, I'm sorry, I missed that link. But who is supporting that movie, you or Eärwen?
 
Persej said:
solarmind said:
Persej - you joking or you want link? it is within ljubica post about me wanabe Laura ;) .. it is "the greatest story never told" link ... that is excelent example how things can get completly oposit perspective with skilfull manipulator

Aha, I'm sorry, I missed that link. But who is supporting that movie, you or Eärwen?

I am not supporting it.
 
casper said:
Eärwen said:
I lied to myself and others,

Which others, members of the forum or another, family, friends?

Eärwen said:
, but the most important thing is I can see my programs and I'm fighting against them.
What exactly happened that you could now see yours programs, because as you say, four years have passed, something changed
Eärwen said:
Two years ago I met Dakota, she was searching for answers only forum,
.....................................................
One of the damage control programs was impatience and panic attacks, Dakota helped me a lot with these two because she asked of me to talk about them all the time, and she was demanding direct answers not being happy with short “yes-no” answers. In some situations I could not make a word coming from my mouth, I could actually feel my throat closing to the point of pain. This was really hard to fight with, but Dakota again jumped in with her methods of “let’s talk about it nice and easy,” she is natural born psychotherapist, and I can’t thank her enough.

If you were in such a poor mental state, how could you keep MW?
Why not sought professional help?

For sure I lied to the forum members and FOTCM members, I was thinking I could do a lot of things, for example that I know how to work trough preparation of FOTCM project in Lovište when in stead I was overwhelmed in laws and jungle of papers that I could not understand except for few basic things. Even more Lied myself for not, recognizing my own limits, for example not asking help of FOTCM members. I lied to myself and others presenting myself as cool and calm when instead I was nervous and insecure and with no real knowledge about myself, I presented myself as strong and independent woman, and I was not. I was chicken and I was full of doubt in any of my abilities. I lied FOTCM members and forum members in my abilities to learn and understand when I didn't understand a thing or I understand it in limited extend.

I lied to my husband to and my mother and father, brother and his wife, whenever I was scared I lied presenting myself in a better light, this was most obvious when getting in touch with something that I perceived as danger or something I have to think about deeply or when I supposed to do something I did not wanted to do. I would say I'll do it or "I know everything about it" and than for hours sometimes for days I was determined not to think about problem, and waiting for problem to get solved by itself. because of that I become almost stranger to my family they lost a faith in me and they did not respect me any more.

I Lied to Laura because I told her we are channeling things, and we did not, I know I should not constantly focus on "experiment" with spirit board, but I have to say what were my lies. I lied myself thinking I could do it freely without any problem and that nothing bad can happend to me or to members involved. I lied myself afterwards telling myself I don't know why I was banned from the forum and I lied to Saša telling him that our experiment was not such a big deal and that we should be worried about it although we were allready in deep mud of self denial and as Saša said negative loop.

The biggest liar I was to myself but in retrospect, if lying to oneself than can not tell any truth to others. So basically I was liar to everybody.

Yes indeed something changed, my relationship with family and friends was disaster, how could be anything else when lying to myself and others more and more, my marriage "ended" after I found out my husband is lying to me to, and that I am unable to be a wife in any possible aspects to him, I found out he did not want to help me to get a job in order not to be ashamed of me because he did not want anyone to see that I have 110 kilos and he was sure I would not be able to work and his friends on work will be pissed of for my state and they will blame him. It was a job in a bakery, and I really needed a job. All my systems of beliefs/lying started to fall down, I don't know how to explain this I felt at that time like I was house of cards and that I'm crushing to the ground, but I was still thinking about myself and not others.
In a way I disintegrated under the pressure of lies, at first I cried because of "poor me" but than even more problems emerged, my moms heart problems became scary, my brother's had accident on boat and almost died, my father was heavily ill because invalid in bed and constantly in bed, my "friend" V***** was using me just to come to the vacation in Croatia for free and so on.

After couple of emergencies, including when my husband had accident with the bike and he needed to stay in beds for days I started to think about others, I was scared for my mom and dad so I started to assist them, with my brother I become to be more and more friendly and with his wife i started to talk and communicate on daily bases. On the end I begin to communicate with my husband and we transformed our marriage in to a partnership.

The change didn't ocured at once and it is still going on.

Good question, I did not, MW in many occasions worked without my assistance, especially when led by two other editors, all the work was organized by I**** and B***** (if needed I will provide names to the admins). At that time I was translating small texts more like translation of simple things once a week or even less, texts with funny pictures with just openings with couple of words, and I have idea to stop with everything. Both editors form Bosnia and Rijeka took control over MW and were editing post, lecturing my poor written things and they replied to the readers and FB MW page.

I still have this problem with closed thorat when shocked, but I'm fighting against it. EE helps with it. At first my mom played the biggest assistance in fighting with daily biases when she noticed I had a will to fight it she communicated to me on a way we did not for a long time, and than Dakota assisted me even further, but than I allready had a strong wish to fight with worst things in myself.

So I guess when I could love only myself I was worst possible person, and when started to think about family I more and more start to feel love for them not thinking about me, me, me than I started to change in real sense of the word.

I did spoke with local doc and she said to me, I'm just going trough mid age crisis and take sleeping pills, everything will be OK, take one glass of wine before going to bed and that was it, if not getting better I will give you something like Prozac. We'll that really scared me to death especially when knowing what Prozac like pills are doing to people.
 
I was just participating in the group posting interesting stuff without any demand to translate or do something with them. I was just curious to see your thinking on that, same as this one about Hitler, as i didn't like it.

Oh, you meant to say that you didn't like the movie and not that you didn't like the Eärwen's thinking about that movie. Ok.

Well, it's hard to say what was going on there on MW because we cannot see the conversations.
 
solarmind said:
Andromeda, if you think it is better for your comunity to ban me, go for it. If that si how i can contribute, as you don't see that i am contributing any how right now, it will be my pleasure to finly give somehing valuable to you guys as i did learn a lot from you. Absurd how it is, but that is how it goes. I maight feel sad for that, and i don't see a point in that threth to me, but "who cares", you "checked me out" i am not of any use, so lets trash her. This is very STO oriented ... :(

That reads like a pity ploy, solarmind, which is just another form of manipulation.

solarmind said:
On the other things - When one is accused for soemthing what one never did, and that goes so far to end up in this kind of who did what converstation, than what that person can do, apart from providing the evidence, and that is what i did for most false facts i was accused. It was long time ago, so yes it is possible that some things are forgoten that i can't prove with mails ... But than reading what Ljubica projected on me is realy scary though, to see how simple straight forward sentnece, where i even wrote clearly after her explanation what and how they work in MW, that i am not sure if i can contribute with translations and writings, is actualy interpreted on a way that newer was my intention. So before you ban me I hope Ljubica will copy paste and translate all our conversation that happend in few lines in november 2014. So at that time i couldn't even tell her that i visited you. How she found out about that, can be from the forum, or maybe hr sott editor, but not from me, as out of forum, i told that just to very very close friends.

According to Gurdjieff, we are all machines and a machine cannot see themselves objectively. You are not being accused of something you never did, you are not being put down, you are being given observations on your behavior; how you come across to people in the network. Your comments seem to be lacking in a desire to understand the feedback being given to you. That really won't help much if you want to sharpen your self-observation skills. Your response reads, again, like a pity ploy - like you are just a victim of misinformation and forgetfulness.

solarmind said:
All other things what i read, folow and coment here, and what i am working on, and how i am progressing, you can trace through my account. If that has noting to do with what you are teaching, or helping out, than really no need to vaist your time. So far i don't think so, but who am i to knwo what i do. :(

More of the same pity ploy.
 
Persej said:
I was just participating in the group posting interesting stuff without any demand to translate or do something with them. I was just curious to see your thinking on that, same as this one about Hitler, as i didn't like it.

Oh, you meant to say that you didn't like the movie and not that you didn't like the Eärwen's thinking about that movie. Ok.

yes.
 
solarmind said:
Ljubica - I think you did recognize who i am when i welcomed you here, i feel you are not honest on that part, same as what you wrote about my contact MW, it is completely your imagination - i newer wanted to be writer of the articles, or not even editor .. you can translate all my messsages here and please do post all what i wrote when i discovered MV. I didn't' find any sentence where it is saying that i want to be editor, writer or translator - as it is not my skill. As for the group, i sent message to MW FB page when i found out about that, and than we exchanged few, about subjects of interest on MV page, and after that I didn't sent you SINGLE private message to you personaly with any suggestion what and how to do on MW. I was just participating in the group posting interesting stuff without any demand to translate or do something with them. I was just curious to see your thinking on that, same as this one about Hitler, as i didn't like it. Than you said there is too much demands for translaiton, and than i understood that all what is posted inot group is actualy understood as sugesiton for translation, and after that, as you know i didn't interupt your editorial world.
I can copy paste all our conversation here, but i rather you do that, and translate it and bold out, if you found it, all this what you assign to me, and what never was proposed, asked or said to you by me.
I was at work, checking with iPhone what is going with this thread when I saw this lie what is very easy to prove it. It is not possible to someone enter to secret group Editor's on MW because if someone from the group sent you invitation to join the group that is because you express wish to voluntary write article's for MW (picture below - in that picture for people not from Croatia and Balkan you can see that this is print screen from the group, date, her name which I will not mention but we already know that and her comment which I will try to translate as best I can:"Ljubica - I didn't see the comments before I read this text...it is not request...only you to know...I'M NEW IN THE GROUP JUST TO PICK UP THE COMMUNICATION CODE OF THE GROUP.

Also, it was never Ljubica/Earwen decision to ask politely people to choose stay in the group and to something or leave, it was my decision. You also said that you wanted just to suggest some good themes, but for that you don't have to be member of the secret group, you can just send message to any editor or to MW page. Why you wanted to be part of our group and do nothing I really don't understand. Also, if you knew that for MW and Ljubica didn't have authors right to write anything about Laura's work, related with her or C's why did you constantly mention her name in group? What was your intention to be member of MW?


mod: image (and name) edited
 

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