Failed Trump Assassination Attempt

[Benjamin]

Maybe in the end Crooks was really the only person shooting that day and the PTB only created the situation that enabled him to do so?

If that's the case, he's using two different types of ammunition in his clip which, when I posed that question earlier, came with the response that it was unlikely. Or he used two different weapons each loaded with different ammo. (Yeah, right.) Or he's the fastest clip changer in the west. (Rawhi-i-i-i-i-de!)

 

[luc]

So can I. They're just much too late in the recording to be the sound of bullets passing close to Dave's microphone. By the time these whizzes are heard, the bullets themselves are very far away, so the whizzes can't be produced by the bullet passing close to the microphone. They also come after an echo, suggesting the whizz sounds are also some kind of echoes or reverberations.

Just trying to understand what you guys are arguing about at this point: so everybody seems to agree there is a whizz sound for the first three shots, whatever the cause, right?

So the first question is, can we infer from that, or at least take it as circumstantial evidence, that the first 3 shots were fired from a different gun/shooter than the 5 rounds? Or is it just a weird artifact of a complex environment or turning camera angle?

And separately from this, can we infer from the whizz sounds that the bullets from the first 3 shots passed close to Dave's mic or not?

Is that it?

 

[Cosmos]

Unfortunately I wasn’t able to find it again, but I once saw a pretty neat video graphic that showed how extremely complex a soundwave distributes through a common uncontrolled 3D space/environment. That is one of the reasons I‘m rather skeptical about the idea that you can say much with certainty there, if you just want to analyze the sounds themselves. So I try to explain it with words:

You have an initial source that produces the sound wave with a rather specific profile such as a specific frequency profile and loudness. Then the sound wave starts to distribute in 3D space at the speed of sound. As soon as the sound escapes the original source things get extremely complicated in a normal 3D space on ground level on earth. And in every moment that passes that complexity increases exponentially in regards to the moment before. Everywhere the initial soundwave hits, the sound either bounces of and/or gets obsorbed and/or gets amplified and/or gets a frequency modulation. Everytime that happens the original sound in that new wave changes because certain frequencies get filtered and/or amplified depending on where the sound hits. In a normal 3D space on earth literally everything in the near and not so near distance from the original sound source acts as such a bounce back, emplifying and/or absorbstion of the initial sound with additional filtering of frequencies.

Literally everything in the environment does this to one extent or the other. For example, every leaf and every even small stone and every surface will bounce back the sound in their own specific directions with their own specific modulation of the original sound. And then that modulated sound bounces of the next object, there it gets modulated again and so on. In a matter of split milliseconds an extremely complex mix of sounds is flying through the air in all directions. Now imagine a microphone trying to record anywhere in that space. Even if the microphone doesn’t move at all, that mixture of every kind of modulated sound flying through the air in every direction probably means that the microphone will get a very distorted image of the original sound. Now lets say that a second microphone would record exactly at the same time and place but just very slightly situated in another angle in 3D space. Would both recorded sounds be the same? Likely not IMO, even though they virtually recorded at the same time and place just that one was angled slightly differently then the other. IMO it could also be that each microphone will record something quite different, and maybe that is more likely then not. Now imagine that the second microphone is running in that 3D space changing positions in that space from moment to moment.

Thinking about it, maybe one could generally say then, that the loudest recorded sound might come closest to the original sound, because with every bouncing off of the original sound that modulated sound is more likely to get less loud?

 

[Joe]

A small blip on the radar: the AGR building was apparently sold four months ago in March to a company called Indicor, "a diversified industrial solutions company", whatever that means. Indicor's CEO is Doug Wright who has worked with Raytheon.

The Company Building Where Trump Shooter Sniped From Was Sold Four Months Ago | The Gateway Pundit | by Anthony Scott

The building in Butler, Pennsylvania, where Thomas Matthew Crooks climbed on the roof and fired shots that hit President Trump and several supporters, was sold just four months ago.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

I don't know how well in advance Trump's rally locations are announced. In any case, maybe Butler PA was an expected location since he's had rallies there before. Just pure speculation, but maybe 'they' had identified the location as suitable for their purposes earlier and by changing owners, they could more easily arrange things. Maybe, maybe not.

Very interesting, and it shows again the extent of the infiltration of these "deep state" types. It suggests that 'they' even have input on Trump's rally scheduling.

 

[Cosmos]

Might be a good idea to keep track of what Dave is posting/saying/replying and uploading on X:

x.com

x.com

We might see more interesting details because he mentioned he knows a bunch of people from Butler who have seen something that he might publish for them.

 

[Joe]

Would a more accurate way of saying this be 'when the sound passes the microphone'? Because the bullet doesn't have to be anywhere near the mic, right? (first video in Joe's post above)

Just a couple of questions: 1) Are they not supersonic bullets? 2) The bullets are supersonic and the whiz caught by Dave's mic is 'leftover' as the whiz sound 'travels backwards' to his mic (Doppler)? 3) They are bullets fired from a longer distance then out of the widows of 2nd floor or from Crooks position (if he fired any)?

Not sure if the bullets are super or subsonic. Probably super. This would mean that, given his proximity, the muzzle blast and the sonic 'crack' would be heard more or less at the same time. The subsequent "whizz" is what I'm interpreting as the sound of the bullet passing the mic. That's a problem though, because that whizz should be more or less simultaneous with the muzzle blast and the crack.

As far as I can tell, whizzes imply subsonic rounds. Supersonic rounds just have cracks.

Yeah, this may well be the case.

It sounds to me as if you might think that a sonic boom only occurs as the object passes the speed barrier, one time and that's that, and then the bullet continues on its course, making whizz or zip sounds to nearby observers, and that "crack" and "whizz" sounds from the same bullet can be distinct and separated in time. Maybe the sonic crack comes first and then a whizz follows (or maybe a whizz is heard, and then comes the sonic crack?).

I was thinking that both could potentially be heard, but now I realize it's probably either one or the other depending on if it's super or sub sonic.

So can I. They're just much too late in the recording to be the sound of bullets passing close to Dave's microphone. By the time these whizzes are heard, the bullets themselves are very far away, so the whizzes can't be produced by the bullet passing close to the microphone.

Right, presuming that the bullets are supersonic then you might expect that the muzzle bang, the crack and the whizz would all be more or less simultaneous from a nearby ear or phone. Still, that "whizz" sound is so close to the sound of other recordings of bullets passing a mic, and the fact that you don't hear any in the 5 subsequent shots, still makes me wonder about it.

 

[aragorn]

I think we can rule that out as a possibility. Based on the Trump mic recording, and the delay of 0.218 seconds between the first shock wave and muzzle blast, a bullet fired from that far would have to have an average velocity of around 394 m/s. By the time it reached Trump it would be subsonic.

Gotcha, that sounds reasonable.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'll submit below some info on sniper shooting that I found interesting. Just additional data to maybe consider.

Just out of curiosity, I looked up the longest sniper shots, and found the following image:



So, just in theory, and if we disregard the audio analyses, a shot from ca 700m should not be too much of a challenge for a pro.

Then, again out of curiosity, I checked if there are computer/AI systems that could help with the accuracy of shooting. My search produced several hits but suprisingly, the followin article is from over ten years ago, 2013. One can just imagine how much such systems have developed since then.

'Self-aiming' rifle turns novices into expert snipers

A new computer-aiming system for rifles lets you "tag" a target with a laser pulse and works out the best moment to pull the trigger, making life easier for long-range killers

www.newscientist.com

Some snippets:

###
Just weeks after the firing of the world’s first 3D printed handgun, a smart rifle that allows the user to accurately hit targets up to 900 metres away has gone on sale in the US. [...]
The PGF lets the user choose a target in the rifle’s sights while the weapon decides when it is the best time to shoot – compensating for factors like wind speed, arm shake, recoil, air temperature, humidity and the bullet’s drop due to gravity, all of which can affect accuracy. To do this, the PGF’s tracking system includes a computer running the open-source Linux operating system, a laser rangefinder, a camera and a high-resolution colour display in an integrated sighting scope mounted on top of the weapon. The user simply takes aim and presses a button near the trigger when a dot from the laser illuminates the target.

The computer then runs an algorithm using image-processing routines to keep track of the target as it moves, keeping the laser dot “painted” on the same point. At the same time, the algorithm increases the pressure required to pull the trigger, only reducing it when the gun’s crosshairs are right over the laser dot – and the bullet is then fired. The gun is novel at another level: it has Wi-Fi. This allows imagery from the sight to be streamed to a smartphone or tablet, so the user can share what they are seeing with others. In addition, it lets the user key a PIN into a smartphone to activate the guided aiming.

In tests, the system has proven astonishingly accurate – even with novices – at hitting targets at a range of 500 to 900 metres.
###

So, just in theory, using a computer/AI assisted aiming system it would be possible for even a novice to shoot quite accurately. Or, it could be used by a more pro shooter to increase the odds of hitting the target. I hope you don't mind my endless speculations but if such a system would've been used in this incident – maybe the AI-system made a slight miscalculation?

 

[Cosmos]

Dave posted this footage I haven't seen before. A guy talks about a person being streaked by a bullet on the neck:

Likely corroborating this report:

List of victims:

James 'Jim' Copenhaver- "wounded by gunfire" (Crooks?)
David 'Jake' Dutch- shot twice
Corey Comperatore- deceased; shot

I've been trying to find the locations of these men at the rally but have so far been unsuccessful. However, there is another victim who's location is generally known. Texas Rep. Ronny Jackson’s nephew was also injured at the rally which was posted on X on Sunday.


FoxNews is reporting that new information is being released. A detonation device was found near Crook's body. Did I read earlier that there were bomb supplies in Crook's vehicle?

Detonation device found near Trump shooter's body | Fox News Video

Fox News' CB Cotton reports the latest on the investigation from Butler, Pennsylvania. The 'Outnumbered' panel discussed the new details of the Trump shooter's parents the day of the rally just hours before he tried to kill former President Trump.

www.foxnews.com

Edit: You can see a black "box thing" diagonal to the body in this photo.

A woman saying she saw a young boy in handcuffs sitting at a concrete pillar when they walked out (apparently believing that he shot):

People talking about a guy being dragged out (then put into a tent?), apparently having been arrested:

Maybe some of those reports are just people getting arrested for nothing or something else? At some point, a woman seems to say something like "they were throwing stuff down" maybe talking about one of those people that got arrested?

 

[Cosmos]

The more I look at it, the more I think that we might have to come to terms with the idea that Crooks was indeed the only one shooting that day, as strange as that might sound.

 

[Wandering Star]

The more I look at it, the more I think that we might have to come to terms with the idea that Crooks was indeed the only one shooting that day, as strange as that might sound.

Or he was the only one who didn't shoot that day.

 

[Benjamin]

Dave posted this footage I haven't seen before. A guy talks about a person being streaked by a bullet on the neck:

I'm thinking they were talking about Trump. At that time, the people in those clips didn't know where or even if he'd been hit. In the first clip when the guy says 'he then stood up and gave a fist-pump', sounds like he's referring to Trump believing he was grazed in the neck.

That being said, the report that Ronny Jackson's nephew being grazed on the back of the neck is strange because I've heard nothing more about it. I've been holding onto this piece for awhile because I can't make it out, and I'm skeptical. From ApprochingInfinity's post (starting at 3:33) there is a woman's voice that sounds as if she says 'They got (Baird?)! My nephew's been shot!" But I just don't think that's right.

 

[Niall]

A small blip on the radar: the AGR building was apparently sold four months ago in March to a company called Indicor, "a diversified industrial solutions company", whatever that means. Indicor's CEO is Doug Wright who has worked with Raytheon.

The Company Building Where Trump Shooter Sniped From Was Sold Four Months Ago | The Gateway Pundit | by Anthony Scott

The building in Butler, Pennsylvania, where Thomas Matthew Crooks climbed on the roof and fired shots that hit President Trump and several supporters, was sold just four months ago.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

I don't know how well in advance Trump's rally locations are announced. In any case, maybe Butler PA was an expected location since he's had rallies there before. Just pure speculation, but maybe 'they' had identified the location as suitable for their purposes earlier and by changing owners, they could more easily arrange things. Maybe, maybe not.

That's one way to ensure total control of the site.

 

[Benjamin]

- A video appears where Crooks apparently says "you got the wrong guy"

This is a weird video (do we know if it's legit or fake?). Is he sitting in 'the van'? The windows don't look like driver's seat location. Behind driver?

 

[Benjamin]

A screenshot- original and PS. Definitely not a car.



The building in the background does not match with anything found along Lawrence Ave in Butler, where the mysterious van with Arizona plates was found. Also notice that toy (looks like 'kirby') hanging from the ceiling. In the video, the van is towed away but I can't see anything in the back window.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Would a more accurate way of saying this be 'when the sound passes the microphone'? Because the bullet doesn't have to be anywhere near the mic, right? (first video in Joe's post above)

Technically, yeah, it's the sound, but the bullet still has to be relatively close to the mic for it to be picked up. I don't know the exact ranges, but from a couple things I've read, the crack might be audible up to around 30 meters from the bullet trajectory, but it gets quieter the farther away you are. (This is because the crack actually travels at the speed of sound from a point along the trajectory perpendicular to the angle of the cone. The farther it has to travel, the more the sound dissipates.) Not sure how close you have to be to the whizz, but again, there will be a limit. From anecdotal accounts, you have to be pretty close to hear it, but I don't know how close.

Just a couple of questions: 1) Are they not supersonic bullets?

Cracks on Trump's mic implies they're all supersonic.

2) The bullets are supersonic and the whiz caught by Dave's mic is 'leftover' as the whiz sound 'travels backwards' to his mic (Doppler)?

I was thinking that might be possible, but the more I looked into it, the less likely I think it is. A normal subsonic whizz shifts down in tone very fast as it passes a mic, so I'm guessing that if something similar is happening with supersonic rounds, that same shift is so fast that it doesn't even register. It also looks like there are signatures for particular speeds: "whistling" at low speeds, "buzzing" at transonic speeds, and just cracks at supersonic speeds.

3) They are bullets fired from a longer distance then out of the widows of 2nd floor or from Crooks position (if he fired any)?

If I get a bit more data I might make a post on estimates for ranges based on the recordings. At this point I'll just say that it looks like all 8 shots probably came from the same distance, and it's at least consistent with Crooks's location (assuming the rifle that fired the shots was an AR-15 with 5.56's). But there might be some other possibilities.

As for your point, the whistles on Dave's most closely resemble the sounds of subsonic bullets as they're approaching from a distance - i.e. before the typical "zip". That doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that none of the other recordings suggest additional shots fired immediately after those first 3 shots, plus if the bullets were approaching from above the buildings, I doubt those sounds of approach would be audible. But it's still interesting. Here's a screenshot comparing the two sounds:

Top line is Dave's recording, with some green lines showing the faint traces of the whizz going down in frequency. Bottom line is a clean recording (no obstacles) of an approaching bullet - the strong vertical line is what you hear when it passes the mic - you can see the strong drop in frequency, and then the sound pretty much stops as passes far enough to become inaudible. So, still a mystery. One thing that comes to mind is certain hallways or rooms where if you clap you hear a wonky echo, like a "pew pew" sound. Similar principle might be at work here?

Right, presuming that the bullets are supersonic then you might expect that the muzzle bang, the crack and the whizz would all be more or less simultaneous from a nearby ear or phone. Still, that "whizz" sound is so close to the sound of other recordings of bullets passing a mic, and the fact that you don't hear any in the 5 subsequent shots, still makes me wonder about it.

Me too. The first thing I noticed when I watched the video was the "crinkly", "jangly" sounds on the tail end of those first shots. No idea what those are, either.