Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris and Other Catholic Churches

You'd think they would photo/video document every phase of the renovation, especially with this historical bldg. And if we had some indication of the state of the site during construction, then we could see if a cause is likely or not.
 
It was a construction site. And there was scaffolding all over, and there must have been a lot of bldg. materials. So maybe the source of the fire began with building materials.

Of course it couldn't have started as it is implied. So, what about generators, tools, materials relating to the construction? And they had to be crating up some artwork and all the things associated with that.


If you read a few pages back in this thread, you see that the works apparently hadn't even started. There were no power tools, just the scaffolding.
 
I was thinking about something similar, what about replacing the word "religions" with "ideologies" and the word "religion" with "faith" or "believe". You can believe in the totally wrong things/concepts (which can be ideologies), but it is still believe.
They are all forms of belief and can overlap with each other to one degree or another depending on the individual's perspective of reality, the perceptions of himself, and the relationship/interactions between the two. Everything becomes a wrong concept if the Self isn't worked on first, and continually so.

I tend to think religion is an external belief internalized, made rigid through ritual; ideology is external/internal-variability made rigid of the mind only; and faith is internal, a belief that wells up from within, it isn't rigid as such, but 'durable' and grows to become more externalized over time.

I thought mkrnhr touched on the basics of 'belief' and concept quite well in the Darwin Black Box thread: "A mind cannot function without some basic postulates about reality, and those postulates are the basis of the belief system whether one aknowledges it or not. Saying that one doesn't believe in anything is a big self-delusion."
 
You'd think they would photo/video document every phase of the renovation, especially with this historical bldg. And if we had some indication of the state of the site during construction, then we could see if a cause is likely or not.
I read an article where it was mentioned that the company had video cams on site monitoring their activity on site. They also had monition detectors attached to the scaffolding.

PS: I have been trying for 2 days to find detail measurements of ND. Size of wood in the roof etc. To my surprise I can not find anything other than basic gross dimensions. Anyone have any suggestions ?
 
I noticed the Île de la Cité is split along Boulevard du Palais between 1st and 4th Arrondissement. The boundary between the arrondissements run behind and along the rear of The Paris Police Prefecture which in turn faces directly Notre Dame Cathedral. I don't know if its already been mentioned, but I thought it quite curious they supervise the fire department: Paris Police Prefecture - Wikipedia

"La PP" (Préfecture de Police), as it is also known, supervises the Paris Police force, the Paris Fire Brigade, and various administrative departments in charge of issuing ID cards and driver licenses or monitoring alien residents. The Prefecture of Police also has security duties in the wider Île-de-France région as the Préfet de Police is also Préfet de Zone de Défense (Prefect for the Defense zone)[1]. Since 2017, it has acquired direct responsibility for the three main airports of the Paris area (Charles de Gaulle, Orly and Le Bourget).

The numbering of Arrondissements spiral out from Île de la Cité. I thought how that could be symbolism of an occultic nature regarding spiraling energy vortices from where a cathedral might be built, and the words "spiral" and "spire" are of the same root.

29974

Something else too. The distance from Île de la Cité - or more precisely the distance at the border between 1st and 4th Arrondissements using the Boulevard du Palais - is exactly 3,333 kilometers to the Dome of Rock/Al-Aqsa Mosque at the Temple Mount.
The Knights Templar's first HQ was at Temple Mount, of which their name derives: Knights Templar - Wikipedia

The first headquarters of the Knights Templar, on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. The Crusaders called it "the Temple of Solomon" and from this location derived their name of Templar.
 




What strikes me as odd is that this individual has no protective breathing apparatus and is wearing a yellow vest.

Just on this aspect of things, firefighters wear yellow vests too as mentioned previously: it is part of the category 3 equipment as this image tells us (last line) directly from the firefighters' website:


tenues-pompiers-arrete-2015.jpg



From the same previous comment of mine:

Annex I concerns the specifications for the conditions under which firefighters' uniforms are worn
Annex II deals with the descriptions and characteristics of the outfits

I follow the two links and they go on the same results with the same lists of multiple Pdfs :shock:. I dug a little deeper in the "Catalogue of standards used by Emergency Preparedness" listed here, and all I could find without spend one week or more on it (it is very unpleasant to read and I know nothing about it, so it remains very dark to me) is the following and without any certainty of real meaning for your question here, just FWIW:

About VESTS

High visibility vest
NF EN ISO 20471
06-June 2013
Standard in force

Title
High-visibility clothing - Test methods and requirements - High visibility clothing signage

Description

"This International Standard specifies the requirements that high visibility clothing to visually signal the user's presence.
High visibility clothing is intended to offer perceptibility to the wearer when seen by drivers of vehicles or other mechanical equipment, in all light conditions, day and night in the headlamps of a vehicle. For more information on risk situations, see in Appendix A. This International Standard does not apply to risk situations moderate and low. The performance requirements are indicated for colour and retroreflection as well as for minimum surfaces and material positioning used in protective clothing. »

Fluorescent yellow seems the most appropriate color for it.

About HOOD:

5-EPI
5.2- PPE - Head
Hood
NF EN 13911
11-November 2004
In the process of revision

Title
Protective clothing for firefighters - Requirements and test methods for fire hoods for firefighters

Description

"This Standard prescribes minimum safety requirements and methods test for a fire hood worn by a firefighter during fires and related activities. This Standard applies only when situations also requiring the use of protective clothing (EN 469), a Respiratory protective device (EN 136 and EN 137) and helmet (EN 443). »

About BREATHING MASK specifically:

It's all far more complicated to dig further and it would take too long for maybe nothing at this point...

However, this does not in any way call into question the relevance of your questions, they seem to me more than legitimate considering the opaque ambiguity of the whole situation...
 
News-worthy but not directly related to the ND fire but related to the Presidential election that Macron won ...

Former French presidential candidate Francois Fillon and his wife Penelope will face trial over the fake jobs scandal that destroyed his 2017 campaign, a judicial source said on Tuesday.

French presidential candidate to face trial over fake jobs scandal

FILE PHOTO: Francois Fillon, member of the Republicans political party and 2017 French presidential election candidate of the French centre-right, reacts as he delivers a speech at his campaign headquarters in Paris after early results in the first round of 2017 French presidential election, France, April 23, 2017. REUTERS/Christian Hartmann/File Photo
Former French presidential candidate Francois Fillon and his wife Penelope will face trial over the fake jobs scandal that destroyed his 2017 campaign, a judicial source said on Tuesday.
 
Very - very interesting information, Thanks for Posting it - MK Scarlett! :-)

Some thoughts that were running through my mind, while reading through the information ...

Macron is probably well aware of these proposals that were drafted just two years earlier, during Hollande's term and the project proposals got passed over to him? Macron has the type of personality that constantly seeks attention and admiration, while he identifies himself, as part of the elite. He poses for "cameo shots" and does "blank face pantomime performances" in front of the camera. He's all about fame and fortune and wants to go down in the History books, greater then Napoleon? He's pet project is the ‘Renaissance’.

So, how do you go about getting the proposals off the drafting table and start on the construction stage, at minimum cost to you, while also fulfilling your very own geo-political proposals? Any seasoned Banker would suggest - You combine them? You only have to look into Macron's background, education and past employment for a clue - why this suggestion might be possible? He had served as the Inspector of Finances in the French Ministry of Economy, also as an investment banker at Rothschild and Cie Banque.

In the Ile de la Cité proposals and designs, I'm unable (not qualified) to determine if the Notre Dame spire was seen as a possible pediment to their plans? News reports of the locations of the fire seem to center on the spiral, the clock, the wooden roof and fallen debris. While renovation was still in it's preliminary stages, most valuable artifacts were removed and placed in storage, including 7 of the 8 Bells and some statues. These precautionary measures reduced damage and liability issues. So, when the fire struck, these objects were already protected.

If - if you were to go with the assumption, the fire was pre-planned to only encompass a specific area (a control burn) with one of the objectives - to eliminate/remove an obstacle that's impeding the expansion of another project - and using the event itself (fire) to garner financial support (from outside investors or donors) for repairs, any excess capital could supplement the secondary project.

Again, if you go with the above assumption, the Notre Dame fire and the timing of the event was preplanned to elicit and manipulate the greatest amount of sympathy and emotional response - during one of the most Holy Christian Holidays on the calendar. Media coverage of the event would be masterfully exploited through the press, to reach a wider audience (free publicity). And as Macron had done, you "pledged to rebuild" but he went one step further, he stated " We'll rebuild Notre Dame together" - soliciting funds. The smirking smile many detected was probably subconscious? He's saying one thing but covering up a hidden agenda. A percentage of the donated funds will go for the repairs but a larger percentage will be used as collateral towards the Ile de la Cité project? A bait and switch scheme. How "Rothschild" can you get ... use other peoples money - to benefit yourself? No sweat!

Something else about J.O. in Paris in 2024 and Universel Exposition that could have stand in France in 2025...

First, as already said, next J.O. in Paris will take place in 2024, that's why Macron repeats from the very moment where N-D was still burning and fire was not yet extinct that "we will re-built it in a delay of 5 years". Straight to the J.O.

Second, Paris was to host the Universal Exposition in 2025, one year after the Olympic Games. (Dubai in 2020, Buenos Aires in 2023); But in 2018, Matignon (the 1st Minister) headed by Édouard Philippe decided otherwise:

From Le Point on January 22nd 2018:
France is no longer a candidate for the organization of the 2025 Universal Exposition. The Prime Minister so decided, according to a letter addressed to the inter-ministerial delegate Pascal Lamy.
Gilles Dufeigneux, former General Delegate of ExpoFrance 2025 in charge of preparing the application file and its financing, considers that the arguments put forward by Édouard Philippe are "unjustified" and "incomprehensible". He recalled that the President of the Republic himself had approved and signed the application form.

Always in the same article than the one above, something "rings" with yellow vests movement which did not even existed at the time:

The Universal Exposition was not only to be held in Paris, but also in the territories.

The application is particularly successful. It is original and innovative, qualities that our country sorely needs in many ways. It is the responsibility of an entire country, not only of the capital city where all decisions are made and broken down, but also of some fifteen metropolises, departments and regions where thematic forums highlighting all the richness and diversity of our territory were to be held. To give up in a few days on a strategic airport infrastructure for western France and to deny these same territories, which aspire to development, influence and responsibility, the chance to participate in a great adventure of collective promotion of our country is very bad news at the beginning of this year.

An event which could have help all these territories whom ask for development rather than feeling abandoned (and they are!) as perfectly described by the yellow vests movement and many mayors of small provincial towns...

Another excerpt from the very same article:

Was the candidacy supported by Emmanuel Macron?

The main financing principles were specified in the official file submitted by France to the IBE in September 2017 and signed by the President of the Republic. As for the prospects for attendance at the event, they are based on an impact study carried out by a very large international firm. To question them today for an event to be organised in 2025 is not serious. It was in 1900 that France last organized the Universal Exhibition. The country was then much less developed in terms of infrastructure and had only 40 million inhabitants. This did not prevent 42 million visitors from attending, for the greater glory of our arts, culture and industries.

Instead of that, the Universal Exposition in 2025 will stand in Osaka, Japan.

I do think that if J.O. have been favoured over Universal Exposition for an allegedly question of gain of money, is a mistake. Instead of that, it seems that an Universal Exposition all over French territories would have been far more remunerative and a bearer of hope for all of them. It seems that Hope must be deleted from French hearts.

A comment below the same article:

At least the expo U would have contained the idea to showcase several of our technological know-how. I do not believe (at all) that the Olympic Games will or can be "profitable" if not at least "roughly balanced" between their cost and money back. Already that we are not able to make transport work decently with the inhabitants of the country (whether it is the metro or the trains) and we would like to "welcome" more than a million foreign visitors in (+)!..... Look for the error!...... And all these eminent decision-makers boast of having studied at a high level (when they do not boast of being spirits or superior individuals)... Since we have been ruled by these elites who live in the "in-between", if they were frankly so intelligent and superhuman, it would be known and we would see it "with the naked eye" on their results, which should be more than convincing and proven. This is far from being the case. CQFD.

I have more to share about the project of the Ile de la Cité, but I miss time for now. And thank you everyone for all the datas!!
 
If you read a few pages back in this thread, you see that the works apparently hadn't even started. There were no power tools, just the scaffolding.
There was people there putting up scaffolding. And it looks like a lot. I assume there were moving/packing activity... there were probably areas where scaffolding and other materials were staged. And a workforce generates trash... so it wasn't a business as usual setting.

And it is interesting that the bldg. had a cement ceiling and a wooden roof... so the attic area could have stored trash from the workers, and if any material caught fire, the pitch of the roof would have been just right to aid in it quickly spreading. So, the heavy timbers were the last to burn, but the roofing material (the lighter planks) burnt quickly due to the pitch of the roof. That might explain it.
 
French SOTT published a summary of the events, with much of what has been discusssed here:


Here's a Deepl Translation (apologies for not correcting mistakes, but I can't do it right now. You'll get the gist! And for hyperlinks, click go to the article itself):

With the fire at Notre-Dame de Paris Cathedral, questions were raised about the possibility that this event could occur accidentally. New information has since emerged. Here is a summary of these.
notre dame fire roof

1/ The restoration work had not yet started

In principle, only the scaffolding had been erected: the scaffolding erected in April 2018 was initially intended to renovate the boom, whose very damaged lead roof had lost its waterproofing.

Source: Le Monde 16/04/19

The scaffolding, he said, was under construction, "to be delivered in mid-July" and "no work on the structure had yet begun".

Source: Le Figaro

2/ An efficient fire monitoring system was installed

Taking up the words of his successor Philippe Villeneuve, with whom he is in contact, Benjamin Mouton affirms to Batiactu that he was "totally incredulous" in the face of this fire that could have started from the renovation site, and that suspicions could be raised about the "valley", where the nave and the transept of the cathedral meet.

"The fire protection installed in the cathedral was at its highest level. »

An important fire detection and protection system

"In 40 years of experience, I have never experienced a fire of this kind," says the man who believes that the fire protection installed in the cathedral was at its highest level.

"When I dealt with fire detection, which was a very expensive device, it took very few minutes for an agent to clear up any doubts, we had many wooden doors replaced by fire doors, we limited all electrical appliances, which were prohibited in the attic," he told Batiactu.

"You need a real fire load to start such a disaster. Oak is a particularly resistant wood. »

The mystery as to the causes of the fire therefore remains unresolved. An expert in the construction sector also confided his misunderstanding to Batiactu: "The fire could not have started from a short circuit, from a simple one-time incident. You need a real fire load at the beginning to start such a disaster. Oak is a particularly resistant wood. »

Source: batiActu


3/ Two men were present day and night 7/7 to check the slightest alert and call the fire brigade if necessary

Point: "What types of fire precautions were in place in this cathedral, which is now largely consumed? »

Benjamin Mouton: "It is one of the most monitored buildings in our country. In 2010 and 2011, I activated a drastic protection protocol for fire risk prevention. In detail, this system was based on a permanent monitoring system based on detectors (paying attention to the possible risks of short-circuits), the installation of doors and firewalls, the presence of two firemen 24 hours a day, making three rounds a day. With the objective that the sooner the alert was given, the sooner we could intervene. It's unimaginable, yesterday's fire spread in an absolutely amazing way! »


4/ The entire electrical installation had been refurbished in 2010

"There was no possibility of a short circuit. »

Source: Interview LCI former chief engineer of Notre-Dame.


5/ All the protection and fire detection of the cathedral had also been redesigned

"There were elements of measurement and suction indicators that made it possible to detect the start of a fire. »

Source: Interview LCI former chief engineer of Notre-Dame.

6/ There was a considerable technical and normative framework

Source: Interview LCI former chief engineer of Notre-Dame.


The spinalian company Aubriat worked on the framework of Notre-Dame de Paris last year. The boss is testifying.

[...]

"She intervened for two weeks in the attic in February 2018. For the manager, Edouard Aubriat, all the safety conditions to avoid a fire were in place:

"I had the privilege of entering this structure. We have heard a lot over the past 24 hours that security was not optimal, but what I have seen is increased and very important security, more important than what I have ever seen. When I hear that not everything was done, I noticed a more than increased security at the time. " »

Source: Magnum la radio


7/ The structure had been treated

The same spinalian company Aubriat worked on the framework of Notre-Dame de Paris, also last year. The boss is testifying.

"The framework of Notre-Dame de Paris, a Vosges company was able to discover it and work on it. The spinalian company Aubriat was in charge of treating wood, against insects and fungi last year. »

Source: Magnum la radio


What products were used then? Could they have been used as catalysts? Was the processing carried out by employees, temporary workers?

How could we not remember the fire in Nantes Cathedral, which had caught fire so quickly, which involved treating the structure with a petroleum-based product.

Source: Jean Delaunay's comment on Batiactu

8/ There were two fire alarms

According to the Paris prosecutor, the alert was given in two stages within the church: a first alert at 6:20 p.m., giving rise to a lifting of negative doubt, followed by a second at 6:43 p.m. This was positive since the fire was then detected in the structure. Between the two, 23 crucial minutes have passed. To try to understand what may have happened, we will have to retrace the story, minute by minute.

A precise evacuation protocol. Around 6:15 p.m., the service begins in the cathedral. Five minutes later, at 6:20 p.m., a red dot flashes on the security guard screen: a fire detector indicates an anomaly. One of the officers is in charge of checking the area indicated and, according to the Paris prosecutor, he finds nothing.

However, the protocol to be followed is extremely precise, assures the one who had the fire-fighting system installed at the beginning of 2010. "The clergy said: if there is an alarm that goes off for no reason, don't bother to panic the faithful who are in the cathedral. If there is a real alarm going off, you let us know and we'll tell the microphone, calmly, that we have to get out. If the alarm is triggered, the fire is confirmed," explains Benjamin Mouton, former chief architect at Notre-Dame de Paris.

A computer bug. However, according to the organist of the office, this evacuation message resonated well in the cathedral. If the evacuation is taking place, it is because an outbreak was discovered at 6:30 p. m., well before the second alert at 6:43 p. m. This seems to be confirmed by one of the hypotheses of the investigators at the Parisian: at 6:20 p.m., a computer bug reported a bad sector to the security agent. He wouldn't have fallen into the fire until after his rounds. A few precious minutes wasted before the fire brigade intervened.

At 6:50 p.m., the fire started in the attic of Notre-Dame, and dense smoke escaped from the roof and spire. It's already too late.

Source: Europe 1


Summary of the chronology of events:

17h20 : The workers leave the roof
17h30 : Exceptional closure of the access to the towers
17h50 : The last worker left the site, after the electricity was switched off
18:15: Start of the office
18h20 : 1st alert: a red dot flashes on the security guard screen
18h30: evacuation order, which means that a fire has been discovered / Time at which the towers should normally have been closed
18h43 : 2nd alert
18h50 : smoke escapes from the roof and the arrow

- So, what happened between 6:20 and 6:30? There was no attempt to extinguish the nascent fire? What is the exact procedure that security guards must follow when a fire is discovered?

- How can the fire be so important in 10 minutes when the oak is so difficult to ignite?

- How is a computer bug possible on this system which should not be very complex? Wasn't it tested? This seems unlikely.

- Why is it taking 23 minutes for the fire system to send a second alert?

- Which company installed it? There must be qualification papers, can they be consulted?

- Were there two outbreaks of fire, as mentioned by LCI, corresponding to the two alarms?


9/ There were no workers at the time of the fire's departure

On Monday, April 15, twelve employees were present on the site. Nevertheless, Julien Le Bras affirms with certainty that all his men left long before the fire started, which spread to the attic of Notre-Dame-de-Paris Cathedral. "The twelve employees were heard on numerous occasions, in a free hearing. They are a little exhausted from this collaboration, which they give with great dedication and without reserve to the services of the criminal brigade," says the contractor.

When the cathedral was set on fire, Julien Le Bras was leaving a meeting. He received a call indicating that a fire was in progress on his site. He immediately took the road to Paris. "I called all the employees and asked them to say everything, if there is something, you have to say it right away. From so much insisting, they got up and said, "Julien, it's not our fault and we can't see where it's coming from!" "he recalls.


"There are many conditions specific to security [...] there are very specific security features" 2:07

"There was absolutely no hot spot work [...] there was not even any electrical work that day [...] Where can the source come from? So we have to look elsewhere but I don't have the explanations " 4:40

"As far as the elevator is concerned, there is of course an electrical supply, this elevator is far from the cathedral, it is 7/8 meters away from the cathedral" 5:50

"There have been intrusions, there have always been some on Notre-Dame despite all the security measures" 7:25

"It takes a real heat source to ignite this type of structure" 8:20

"Systematically when leaving the site, the power is cut off and the keys returned to the caretaker's office" 8:55

"On that day, only the company "Europe and scaffolding" was on site to my knowledge" 9:54

Source: France3


10/ On the site all incandescent objects were prohibited

A priori everything that could set the fire was prohibited: torch, engine, gas, etc.

As Julien Le Bras reminds us, "this project started normally". He also explained that on Monday, April 15, no hot spot or electrical work had been carried out. On that day, the renovators placed scaffolding: "our tools are hammers, 22-gauge keys," says Julien Le Bras, "nothing that could allow a fire to start. »

Source: franceinfo


11/ Solid oak is very difficult to ignite

- Here is a video with a person who is trying to set an oak beam of the same size as Notre-Dame on fire:


- Another one:

It is a pity that these experiments were not carried out indoors or the energy dissipates less quickly.

- On Twitter:

- The description of the fire at Reims Cathedral:

"The German fire at Reims Cathedral on 19 September 1914 was an event of considerable significance, both in terms of its material consequences and its international impact.

[...]

At 3 p.m., a shell hit the pine wooden scaffolding that had been surrounding the northern tower of the cathedral since May 1913 and set it on fire. At about 3:30 p.m., the roof caught fire, making the fire visible from a distance, which caused the Germans to stop firing. But the heat of the fire boils the 400 tonnes of lead sheet that covers the roof. The molten lead then spreads over the vaults and flows through the gargoyles, causing a spectacular golden yellow smoke. At 3:50 p.m. the scaffolding collapsed on the square, filling it with smoke. As for the fire in the structure, it continues until about 8 p.m. »

Source: Reims.fr

For the the frame (oak?) to burn via a pine wood fire therefore takes 1/2 hour and lasts 4h30. But many objects had been stored inside: clothes, wooden boards, etc. (Bernard Lecomte).

- There are oak fireplaces:
cheminée en chêne
oak fireplace
Camus Fils fireplaces
Rare large old oak wood mantel with faunal decorations on the jambs surmounted by a low relief representing a scene with characters and on either side lions' heads
Source: Camus Fils chimneys

"The ignition temperature of the wood depends on how long the wood is exposed to heat. Generally, wood ignites at a temperature between 250 and 300°C. After ignition, the wood begins to carbonize at about 0.8 mm per minute. Fire progresses slowly in a solid piece of wood, because the carbon layer formed there protects the wood in a fire situation and slows down the increase in heat in the internal parts and the progression of the fire. For example, even at a distance of 15 mm from the carbonization limit, the wood temperature is below 100 °C. This feature is used in the design of load-bearing structures, among other things. »

Anthony and Didier Dupuy had worked at the Notre-Dame summit in 2013. These great connoisseurs of the cathedral have difficulty understanding the fire.

"What do you think could be the origin of the fire?

A.D. The oak sections are huge and it really takes an extraordinary source of energy to ignite them. The investigation will tell us what's going on. It's really surprising.

D.D. The wood of the frames was as hard as stone, centuries old. The dust on the skin of the beams may have ignited. But I can't explain how pieces 60 cm wide burned so quickly. »

Source: Le Parisien

"The forest":




This is an important point. Would that prove that there was a fire accelerator (sulphur, thermite)?

If we refer to the previous point, it is lead that would be at the origin of the colour of the fire:

"The heat of the fire boils the 400 tonnes of lead sheet that covers the roof. The molten lead then spreads over the vaults and flows through the gargoyles, causing a spectacular golden yellow smoke. »

Does lead really give this colour to the smoke?
Notre-Dame de Paris, feu
Notre-Dame de Paris, fire
Notre-Dame, feu , jaune, fumée
The yellow smoke from the fire.
Notre-Dame, fire, yellow, smoke
In a few moments, thermite (or nano-thermite) is able to generate a furnace capable of reaching 2,500°C.

The colours of thermite combustion:



Smoke during a building fire:

Another fire:


- On the Internet, there is this sentence that would come from a firefighter:

"It is impossible to have such a fire in less than 2 hours without an accelerator. Wood does not emit yellow smoke, petrochemicals does!"

Source: Facebook?

Can lead then have changed the colour of the smoke?


13/ Was there a pyrolysis phenomenon?

"Metal elements such as zinc gutters, placed on wooden framing elements, are welded and locally raised to more than 270 degrees. Even when protected from the air, a pyrolysis reaction starts, and continues silently, because it is an exothermic reaction. This reaction progresses in the piece of wood and gains momentum until it reaches a part exposed to the air, which allows the smoke to escape.

It is then too late to avoid the fire because this smoke filled with free radicals ignites immediately. (fire tetrahedron). This process remains discreet before the fire breaks out, since no smoke could escape until the pyrolysis (still incorrectly called "slow combustion" or without flammes) reaches a part exposed to oxygen from the air. This also explains why this type of fire breaks out late, i.e. up to several hours after the work has been completed. »

The problem with this interesting assumption, however, is that, as seen in point 1, work had not yet begun.


14/ Would the structure have contained another type of wood?

Would there have been fir trees, for example? There is no information to that effect.


15/ Has there been a phenomenon related to static electricity?

A priori it is a known phenomenon during the explosion of the grain silo. Would this have been enough?


16/ The towers had been exceptionally closed at 5:30 pm instead of 6:30 pm

@Paris_by_Elodie

"Please note: exceptionally, the Notre-Dame Towers will close at 5:30 p.m. on Monday, April 15. The cathedral remains open as usual until 6.45 pm. »
Source : @Paris_by_Elodie

- The Centre of National Monuments:
On Monday, April 15, the Notre-Dame Tower Tour will exceptionally close at 5:30 p.m.
Le lundi 15 avril, le circuit des tours de Notre-Dame fermera exceptionnellement à 17h30
Capture of the site of the Centre des monuments nationaux.
- Google search:
fermeture exceptionnelle NDP
exceptional lock NDP

- So the question is: why were the towers "exceptionally" closed that day?

- It seems that the Paris tourist office had also warned of another closure:

"Monday, April 15, 2019: exceptional closing at 5:30 pm of John XXIII Square around the cathedral bedside. »

No proof yet.


17/ A camera pointed at the boom had been installed to monitor the progress of the site

A camera pointed at the boom had been installed to monitor the progress of the construction site, Marc Eskenazi told Reuters, adding that the potentially valuable "timelapse" recording (with an accelerated effect) had been given to the investigators. "Photos were taken every ten minutes starting Monday at 2 p.m. and the camera was handed over to the criminal police," he said, referring to a real "photo report. "They can see where the first smoke comes from, for example, where it comes from, I think the film has a certain interest in the investigation," he added.

Source: francetvinfo


18/ Architects forbidden to answer interviews on Notre-Dame

Antoine Pasquier is editor-in-chief of the Christian Family.

For Libération it is to "centralize communication" which is very similar to the need to control it. "If instructions in the communication have been given, there is no prohibition," a historical monument architect told CheckNews. The proof is that I have been almost exclusively busy answering the press for two days. There was a consultation on Tuesday morning between representatives of the company of chief architects of historic monuments and the Ministry. The idea was to ask the architects not to say what he didn't know. There was a lot of emotion, questions came in. We are in a society that wants explanations right away, even when there are none yet. »

[...]

When contacted by CheckNews, the Ministry finally sent us this reply: "No circulars were sent to architects instructing them not to reply to journalists. Faced with the influx of requests, the company of Chief Architects of Historic Monuments was simply asked to have a single point of entry to coordinate everything, which was provided by the president of the company Charlotte Hubert. »


19/ A webcam shows a person and a bright flash on the roof of the cathedral


The video is very authentic but would be dated at 4:05 pm. The sun that reflects itself? On what? On what?


Viewsurf is a French site that offers webcam views in several cities in France. The service has a camera that films Notre-Dame Cathedral and publishes a one-minute video every hour.
A video filmed by a webcam on April 15 at 5:05 pm

While the April 15 videos are no longer online on the Viewsurf website, CheckNews was still able to access the videos shot at 14:05, 15:05, 16:05, 17:05, 17:05, 18:05 and 19:05 on the day of the fire. The 5:05 p.m. one was also recorded on Archive.org. It is these images that are circulating on the Net.

We can indeed see that a silhouette was moving at 5:05 p. m. on the roof of the cathedral. But this is also the case for all the excerpts from 2pm to 5pm that CheckNews has viewed, where you can see several people in the area around the arrow. On the other hand, no one is visible on the 6:05 p.m. one. And at 7:05 p. m., you can't see anything, except flames and a lot of smoke.

Source: Liberation



20/ Youtubers have already climbed on the roof of the cathedral

- May 2018, a video that proves that even without scaffolding the building can be climbed.

- October 2018, when the scaffolding is already present:

21/ The accidental trail is very quickly pushed back, without waiting for the results of the investigation

On Tuesday, Paris public prosecutor Rémy Heitz said that the accidental lead was "privileged", assuring that "nothing goes in the direction of a voluntary act. »

When looking for the truth, no hypothesis is favoured, otherwise the results may be of the order of confirmation bias.


22/ A "big boom" was heard at the beginning of the fire

I watched the last celebration recorded at Notre-Dame on the KTO television site (ktotv.com): Vespers on Monday, April 15, 2019, filmed between 5:45 pm and 6:15 pm. At 6:15 pm, the television crew leaves (and with them an objective witness who can provide images and sounds). The last mass then begins, it is interrupted at 6:20 pm by the first fire alarm. We're evacuating, but no fire was found. The evacuees return to the interior of the building.

Then, according to one participant at this mass, we heard "a big boom", followed by the 2nd fire alarm, at 6:43 p. m. We evacuate again, this time definitively, and the participant notices that no fire is visible from the outside, nor any smoke, there is only "a strange light".

Source: Sylvie Rinaudo's commentary on Batiactu

Another testimony:

Hélène Bodenez, professor of Literature in Paris, was at Mass at Notre-Dame on Monday enfin during the day when the fire alarm went off. She tells how she experienced this tragic event.
[...]
In the choir, the lady next to me asks me if I heard like her "the loud noise". My answer is yes, although I do not know exactly where it came from or what it covered. More like high and left. I am used to fire alarms as a teacher, however, I wonder if it is one. But the Vigils are coming and are evacuating everyone. Even the fidèles of the mass. Around 6:35 p. m.

Source: aleteia

What could be the source that caused this noise?


The Symbols

Here are the coincidences that can be found. It's up to you to make up your mind:

- The disaster occurs on the first day of Holy Week

- The President of the Republic was to make a much awaited speech

- A fire drill had taken place a few days earlier; André Finot, head of communication at Notre Dame Cathedral, told the Parisian: "We heard the alarm sound at 6:30 pm. An alarm that was immediately identified and recognized because we had been engaged in a fire drill a few days ago. "At the same time, al-Aqsa Mosque is on fire in Jerusalem:


- Notre-Dame de Paris burned on the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic (April 15, 1912).

- During the Notre-Dame de Paris fire, Michelle Obama enjoyed a dinner on a bateau-mouche on the Seine. Source: Closer

- The logo of the company that erected the scaffolding recalls that of Freemasonry:Le Bra Frères, logo
Le Bra Frères, logo
More precisely, the scaffolding was erected by "Europe scaffolding", a subsidiary of the company "Le Bras Frères".

- Before the Christian period in France, a Gallo-Roman temple dedicated to Jupiter stood on the site of Notre-Dame.

- Cover of The Economist in 2017:
The economist 2017
The economist 2017
1st image: "The Tower"
 
This event happens in a very complex situation, with many players, motives and possibilities. To have a fire like this takes precise engineering skills. I 'll try to explore some possibilities formulated as questions.

If it was planned, the plan could have begun years ago in time for parties to be placed, so they would look as if involved. The speech on Yellow Vests that did not happen, makes Macron look poor, but maybe there is a third force, that suggested the schedule?

If it was set up to be a suicide mission, a type of act some parties have honed to an art. We usually hear about suicide bombers, but what about suicide arsonists? It is probably easier. Do the job, take medicine, go to sleep and done.

What if the fire was intended as a flag, (false og semi-real) and the Church (in the spirit of the Church) or the Government (for political reason) decided not to reveal the force(s) behind it? And if that is so, what would the intended outcome have been? What was the expected reaction of the public? If the intended intention was not realized, what does plan B look like?

Scarry ideas, but with all that took place since Palm Sunday ....
 
I'm just speculating on why it spread like it did - considering the layout...

The ceiling is cement. Above it is the wooden roof structure. Cement retains heat and releases it gradually. Heat in the cathedral rises to the ceiling heating the attic space - heating the wooden materials.

And so the attic is always the warmest part of the building. And because of this the wood is dry.

Then, the roof is covered with lead. And it is angled. So, though the lead protects from outside conditions, it also retains inside conditions. And this has a baking effect. So in the event of a fire, this would be bad.

And they recognised this and had fire alarm precautions, wood treatments, ect.

But the architectural design is not your everyday situation, and the protections they put in place were not enough.

And so, it was like a disaster waiting to happen. And whether it was arson or accident, it happened at the scale that it did because the conditions allowed it.
 
Almost every possibility has been mentioned which gives us a very long list of both facts and possible movitives for a non-accidental reason for the fire.

And so, it was like a disaster waiting to happen. And whether it was arson or accident, it happened at the scale that it did because the conditions allowed it.

I think that the difficulty protecting the attic area was certainly there.

But the architectural design is not your everyday situation, and the protections they put in place were not enough.

Short of installing a sprinkler system which would probably ruin everything under it if it did go off I am not sure what they could have done better.

From Wikipedia Notre-Dame de Paris fire:
Normally, no electrical installations were allowed in the roof space due to the extreme fire risk.
 
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