French SOTT published a summary of the events, with much of what has been discusssed here:
Avec l'incendie de la cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris, des questions se sont posées sur la possibilité que cet événement puisse survenir de manière accidentelle. De nouvelles informations sont depuis lors apparues. En voici un résumé. 1/ Le...
fr.sott.net
Here's a Deepl Translation (apologies for not correcting mistakes, but I can't do it right now. You'll get the gist! And for hyperlinks, click go to the article itself):
With the fire at Notre-Dame de Paris Cathedral, questions were raised about the possibility that this event could occur accidentally. New information has since emerged. Here is a summary of these.
1/ The restoration work had not yet started
In principle, only the scaffolding had been erected: the scaffolding erected in April 2018 was initially intended to renovate the boom, whose very damaged lead roof had lost its waterproofing.
Source: Le Monde 16/04/19
The scaffolding, he said, was under construction, "to be delivered in mid-July" and "no work on the structure had yet begun".
Source: Le Figaro
2/ An efficient fire monitoring system was installed
Taking up the words of his successor Philippe Villeneuve, with whom he is in contact, Benjamin Mouton affirms to Batiactu that he was "totally incredulous" in the face of this fire that could have started from the renovation site, and that suspicions could be raised about the "valley", where the nave and the transept of the cathedral meet.
"The fire protection installed in the cathedral was at its highest level. »
An important fire detection and protection system
"In 40 years of experience, I have never experienced a fire of this kind," says the man who believes that the fire protection installed in the cathedral was at its highest level.
"When I dealt with fire detection, which was a very expensive device, it took very few minutes for an agent to clear up any doubts, we had many wooden doors replaced by fire doors, we limited all electrical appliances, which were prohibited in the attic," he told Batiactu.
"You need a real fire load to start such a disaster. Oak is a particularly resistant wood. »
The mystery as to the causes of the fire therefore remains unresolved. An expert in the construction sector also confided his misunderstanding to Batiactu: "The fire could not have started from a short circuit, from a simple one-time incident. You need a real fire load at the beginning to start such a disaster. Oak is a particularly resistant wood. »
Source: batiActu
3/ Two men were present day and night 7/7 to check the slightest alert and call the fire brigade if necessary
Point: "What types of fire precautions were in place in this cathedral, which is now largely consumed? »
Benjamin Mouton: "It is one of the most monitored buildings in our country. In 2010 and 2011, I activated a drastic protection protocol for fire risk prevention. In detail, this system was based on a permanent monitoring system based on detectors (paying attention to the possible risks of short-circuits), the installation of doors and firewalls, the presence of two firemen 24 hours a day, making three rounds a day. With the objective that the sooner the alert was given, the sooner we could intervene. It's unimaginable, yesterday's fire spread in an absolutely amazing way! »
4/ The entire electrical installation had been refurbished in 2010
"There was no possibility of a short circuit. »
Source: Interview LCI former chief engineer of Notre-Dame.
5/ All the protection and fire detection of the cathedral had also been redesigned
"There were elements of measurement and suction indicators that made it possible to detect the start of a fire. »
Source: Interview LCI former chief engineer of Notre-Dame.
6/ There was a considerable technical and normative framework
Source: Interview LCI former chief engineer of Notre-Dame.
The spinalian company Aubriat worked on the framework of Notre-Dame de Paris last year. The boss is testifying.
[...]
"She intervened for two weeks in the attic in February 2018. For the manager, Edouard Aubriat, all the safety conditions to avoid a fire were in place:
"I had the privilege of entering this structure. We have heard a lot over the past 24 hours that security was not optimal, but what I have seen is increased and very important security, more important than what I have ever seen. When I hear that not everything was done, I noticed a more than increased security at the time. " »
Source: Magnum la radio
7/ The structure had been treated
The same spinalian company Aubriat worked on the framework of Notre-Dame de Paris, also last year. The boss is testifying.
"The framework of Notre-Dame de Paris, a Vosges company was able to discover it and work on it. The spinalian company Aubriat was in charge of treating wood, against insects and fungi last year. »
Source: Magnum la radio
What products were used then? Could they have been used as catalysts? Was the processing carried out by employees, temporary workers?
How could we not remember the fire in Nantes Cathedral, which had caught fire so quickly, which involved treating the structure with a petroleum-based product.
Source: Jean Delaunay's comment on Batiactu
8/ There were two fire alarms
According to the Paris prosecutor, the alert was given in two stages within the church: a first alert at 6:20 p.m., giving rise to a lifting of negative doubt, followed by a second at 6:43 p.m. This was positive since the fire was then detected in the structure. Between the two, 23 crucial minutes have passed. To try to understand what may have happened, we will have to retrace the story, minute by minute.
A precise evacuation protocol. Around 6:15 p.m., the service begins in the cathedral. Five minutes later, at 6:20 p.m., a red dot flashes on the security guard screen: a fire detector indicates an anomaly. One of the officers is in charge of checking the area indicated and, according to the Paris prosecutor, he finds nothing.
However, the protocol to be followed is extremely precise, assures the one who had the fire-fighting system installed at the beginning of 2010. "The clergy said: if there is an alarm that goes off for no reason, don't bother to panic the faithful who are in the cathedral. If there is a real alarm going off, you let us know and we'll tell the microphone, calmly, that we have to get out. If the alarm is triggered, the fire is confirmed," explains Benjamin Mouton, former chief architect at Notre-Dame de Paris.
A computer bug. However, according to the organist of the office, this evacuation message resonated well in the cathedral. If the evacuation is taking place, it is because an outbreak was discovered at 6:30 p. m., well before the second alert at 6:43 p. m. This seems to be confirmed by one of the hypotheses of the investigators at the Parisian: at 6:20 p.m., a computer bug reported a bad sector to the security agent. He wouldn't have fallen into the fire until after his rounds. A few precious minutes wasted before the fire brigade intervened.
At 6:50 p.m., the fire started in the attic of Notre-Dame, and dense smoke escaped from the roof and spire. It's already too late.
Source: Europe 1
Summary of the chronology of events:
17h20 : The workers leave the roof
17h30 : Exceptional closure of the access to the towers
17h50 : The last worker left the site, after the electricity was switched off
18:15: Start of the office
18h20 : 1st alert: a red dot flashes on the security guard screen
18h30: evacuation order, which means that a fire has been discovered / Time at which the towers should normally have been closed
18h43 : 2nd alert
18h50 : smoke escapes from the roof and the arrow
- So, what happened between 6:20 and 6:30?
There was no attempt to extinguish the nascent fire? What is the exact procedure that security guards must follow when a fire is discovered?
- How can the fire be so important in 10 minutes when the oak is so difficult to ignite?
- How is a computer bug possible on this system which should not be very complex? Wasn't it tested? This seems unlikely.
- Why is it taking 23 minutes for the fire system to send a second alert?
- Which company installed it? There must be qualification papers, can they be consulted?
- Were there two outbreaks of fire, as mentioned by LCI, corresponding to the two alarms?
9/ There were no workers at the time of the fire's departure
On Monday, April 15, twelve employees were present on the site. Nevertheless, Julien Le Bras affirms with certainty that all his men left long before the fire started, which spread to the attic of Notre-Dame-de-Paris Cathedral. "The twelve employees were heard on numerous occasions, in a free hearing. They are a little exhausted from this collaboration, which they give with great dedication and without reserve to the services of the criminal brigade," says the contractor.
When the cathedral was set on fire, Julien Le Bras was leaving a meeting. He received a call indicating that a fire was in progress on his site. He immediately took the road to Paris. "I called all the employees and asked them to say everything, if there is something, you have to say it right away. From so much insisting, they got up and said, "Julien, it's not our fault and we can't see where it's coming from!" "he recalls.
"There are many conditions specific to security [...] there are very specific security features" 2:07
"There was absolutely no hot spot work [...] there was not even any electrical work that day [...] Where can the source come from? So we have to look elsewhere but I don't have the explanations " 4:40
"As far as the elevator is concerned, there is of course an electrical supply, this elevator is far from the cathedral, it is 7/8 meters away from the cathedral" 5:50
"There have been intrusions, there have always been some on Notre-Dame despite all the security measures" 7:25
"It takes a real heat source to ignite this type of structure" 8:20
"Systematically when leaving the site, the power is cut off and the keys returned to the caretaker's office" 8:55
"On that day, only the company "Europe and scaffolding" was on site to my knowledge" 9:54
Source: France3
10/ On the site all incandescent objects were prohibited
A priori everything that could set the fire was prohibited: torch, engine, gas, etc.
As Julien Le Bras reminds us, "this project started normally". He also explained that on Monday, April 15, no hot spot or electrical work had been carried out. On that day, the renovators placed scaffolding: "our tools are hammers, 22-gauge keys," says Julien Le Bras, "nothing that could allow a fire to start. »
Source: franceinfo
11/ Solid oak is very difficult to ignite
- Here is a video with a person who is trying to set an oak beam of the same size as Notre-Dame on fire:
- Another one:
It is a pity that these experiments were not carried out indoors or the energy dissipates less quickly.
- On Twitter:
- The description of the fire at Reims Cathedral:
"The German fire at Reims Cathedral on 19 September 1914 was an event of considerable significance, both in terms of its material consequences and its international impact.
[...]
At 3 p.m., a shell hit the pine wooden scaffolding that had been surrounding the northern tower of the cathedral since May 1913 and set it on fire. At about 3:30 p.m., the roof caught fire, making the fire visible from a distance, which caused the Germans to stop firing. But the heat of the fire boils the 400 tonnes of lead sheet that covers the roof. The molten lead then spreads over the vaults and flows through the gargoyles, causing a spectacular golden yellow smoke. At 3:50 p.m. the scaffolding collapsed on the square, filling it with smoke. As for the fire in the structure, it continues until about 8 p.m. »
Source: Reims.fr
For the the frame (oak?) to burn via a pine wood fire therefore takes 1/2 hour and lasts 4h30. But many objects had been stored inside: clothes, wooden boards, etc. (Bernard Lecomte).
- There are oak fireplaces:
![cheminée en chêne cheminée en chêne](/forum/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.sott.net%2Fimage%2Fs25%2F519076%2Flarge%2Fchemin%C3%A9e_en_bois_2.jpg&hash=cc116aa75bab39b5a2371fe8c8a0c1b1)
oak fireplace
Camus Fils fireplaces
Rare large old oak wood mantel with faunal decorations on the jambs surmounted by a low relief representing a scene with characters and on either side lions' heads
Source: Camus Fils chimneys
"The ignition temperature of the wood depends on how long the wood is exposed to heat. Generally, wood ignites at a temperature between 250 and 300°C. After ignition, the wood begins to carbonize at about 0.8 mm per minute. Fire progresses slowly in a solid piece of wood, because the carbon layer formed there protects the wood in a fire situation and slows down the increase in heat in the internal parts and the progression of the fire. For example, even at a distance of 15 mm from the carbonization limit, the wood temperature is below 100 °C. This feature is used in the design of load-bearing structures, among other things. »
Anthony and Didier Dupuy had worked at the Notre-Dame summit in 2013. These great connoisseurs of the cathedral have difficulty understanding the fire.
"What do you think could be the origin of the fire?
A.D. The oak sections are huge and it really takes an extraordinary source of energy to ignite them. The investigation will tell us what's going on. It's really surprising.
D.D. The wood of the frames was as hard as stone, centuries old. The dust on the skin of the beams may have ignited. But I can't explain how pieces 60 cm wide burned so quickly. »
Source: Le Parisien
"The forest":
This is an important point. Would that prove that there was a fire accelerator (sulphur, thermite)?
If we refer to the previous point, it is lead that would be at the origin of the colour of the fire:
"The heat of the fire boils the 400 tonnes of lead sheet that covers the roof. The molten lead then spreads over the vaults and flows through the gargoyles, causing a spectacular golden yellow smoke. »
Does lead really give this colour to the smoke?
![Notre-Dame de Paris, feu Notre-Dame de Paris, feu](/forum/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.sott.net%2Fimage%2Fs25%2F519110%2Flarge%2FNotre_Dame_de_Paris_feu_jaune.jpg&hash=bda91c50e7f288665005b93c25b0f155)
Notre-Dame de Paris, fire
![Notre-Dame, feu , jaune, fumée Notre-Dame, feu , jaune, fumée](/forum/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.sott.net%2Fimage%2Fs25%2F519173%2Flarge%2FNotre_Dame_fum%C3%A9e_jaune.jpg&hash=6017ebdace6f4851860016b411015e60)
The yellow smoke from the fire.
Notre-Dame, fire, yellow, smoke
In a few moments, thermite (or nano-thermite) is able to generate a furnace capable of reaching 2,500°C.
The colours of thermite combustion:
From Brainiac: Science Abuse - S03E05.
youtu.be
Thermite reaction: Fe2O3 + Al = Al2O3 + Fe(liquid)
youtu.be
Smoke during a building fire:
For licensing of this video, contact km406@hotmail.comParkview Ave. General Alarm Fire (Yonkers, NY) 3/12/19YONKERS, NY - At approximately 6:15pm on March 12...
youtu.be
Another fire:
"LIKE" Me On Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/Demonracer2?... And Follow Me On Twitter AND NOW INSTAGRAM @Demonracer2_erv On April 15th at 13:00hrs the Pas...
youtu.be
ÐпеÑаÑÐ¸Ð²Ð½Ð°Ñ ÑÑемка пожаÑной оÑÑанÑ. ÐзглÑд изнÑÑÑи, ÑеалÑнÑе боевÑе дейÑÑÐ²Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ ÑÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¶Ð°Ñов, пÑÐ¾Ð²ÐµÐ´ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐСР(аваÑийно-ÑпаÑаÑелÑнÑÑ ÑабоÑ), ÐСР(поиÑково-...
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- On the Internet, there is this sentence that would come from a firefighter:
"It is impossible to have such a fire in less than 2 hours without an accelerator. Wood does not emit yellow smoke, petrochemicals does!"
Source: Facebook?
Can lead then have changed the colour of the smoke?
13/ Was there a pyrolysis phenomenon?
"Metal elements such as zinc gutters, placed on wooden framing elements, are welded and locally raised to more than 270 degrees. Even when protected from the air, a pyrolysis reaction starts, and continues silently, because it is an exothermic reaction. This reaction progresses in the piece of wood and gains momentum until it reaches a part exposed to the air, which allows the smoke to escape.
It is then too late to avoid the fire because this smoke filled with free radicals ignites immediately. (fire tetrahedron). This process remains discreet before the fire breaks out, since no smoke could escape until the pyrolysis (still incorrectly called "slow combustion" or without flammes) reaches a part exposed to oxygen from the air. This also explains why this type of fire breaks out late, i.e. up to several hours after the work has been completed. »
The problem with this interesting assumption, however, is that, as seen in point 1, work had not yet begun.
14/ Would the structure have contained another type of wood?
Would there have been fir trees, for example? There is no information to that effect.
15/ Has there been a phenomenon related to static electricity?
A priori it is a known phenomenon during the explosion of the grain silo. Would this have been enough?
16/ The towers had been exceptionally closed at 5:30 pm instead of 6:30 pm
@Paris_by_Elodie
"Please note: exceptionally, the Notre-Dame Towers will close at 5:30 p.m. on Monday, April 15. The cathedral remains open as usual until 6.45 pm. »
Source : @Paris_by_Elodie
- The Centre of National Monuments:
On Monday, April 15, the Notre-Dame Tower Tour will exceptionally close at 5:30 p.m.
![Le lundi 15 avril, le circuit des tours de Notre-Dame fermera exceptionnellement à 17h30 Le lundi 15 avril, le circuit des tours de Notre-Dame fermera exceptionnellement à 17h30](/forum/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.sott.net%2Fimage%2Fs25%2F519128%2Flarge%2Ffermeture_exceptionnelle_tours.png&hash=ab8222c6255b6ad7f467adffe04820ac)
Capture of the site of the Centre des monuments nationaux.
- Google search:
![fermeture exceptionnelle NDP fermeture exceptionnelle NDP](/forum/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.sott.net%2Fimage%2Fs25%2F519139%2Flarge%2Ffermeture_exceptionnelle_NDP.jpg&hash=820197bba81a5f3894183050d9933752)
exceptional lock NDP
- So the question is:
why were the towers "exceptionally" closed that day?
- It seems that the Paris tourist office had also warned of another closure:
"Monday, April 15, 2019: exceptional closing at 5:30 pm of John XXIII Square around the cathedral bedside. »
No proof yet.
17/ A camera pointed at the boom had been installed to monitor the progress of the site
A camera pointed at the boom had been installed to monitor the progress of the construction site, Marc Eskenazi told Reuters, adding that the potentially valuable "timelapse" recording (with an accelerated effect) had been given to the investigators. "Photos were taken every ten minutes starting Monday at 2 p.m. and the camera was handed over to the criminal police," he said, referring to a real "photo report. "They can see where the first smoke comes from, for example, where it comes from, I think the film has a certain interest in the investigation," he added.
Source: francetvinfo
18/ Architects forbidden to answer interviews on Notre-Dame
Antoine Pasquier is editor-in-chief of the Christian Family.
For Libération it is to "centralize communication" which is very similar to the need to control it. "If instructions in the communication have been given, there is no prohibition," a historical monument architect told CheckNews. The proof is that I have been almost exclusively busy answering the press for two days. There was a consultation on Tuesday morning between representatives of the company of chief architects of historic monuments and the Ministry. The idea was to ask the architects not to say what he didn't know. There was a lot of emotion, questions came in. We are in a society that wants explanations right away, even when there are none yet. »
[...]
When contacted by CheckNews, the Ministry finally sent us this reply: "No circulars were sent to architects instructing them not to reply to journalists. Faced with the influx of requests, the company of Chief Architects of Historic Monuments was simply asked to have a single point of entry to coordinate everything, which was provided by the president of the company Charlotte Hubert. »
19/ A webcam shows a person and a bright flash on the roof of the cathedral
The video is very authentic but would be dated at 4:05 pm. The sun that reflects itself? On what? On what?
Webcam footage before the cathedral fire appears to show a person moving around and then a bright flash.
youtu.be
Viewsurf is a French site that offers webcam views in several cities in France. The service has a camera that films Notre-Dame Cathedral and publishes a one-minute video every hour.
A video filmed by a webcam on April 15 at 5:05 pm
While the April 15 videos are no longer online on the Viewsurf website, CheckNews was still able to access the videos shot at 14:05, 15:05, 16:05, 17:05, 17:05, 18:05 and 19:05 on the day of the fire. The 5:05 p.m. one was also recorded on Archive.org. It is these images that are circulating on the Net.
We can indeed see that a silhouette was moving at 5:05 p. m. on the roof of the cathedral. But this is also the case for all the excerpts from 2pm to 5pm that CheckNews has viewed, where you can see several people in the area around the arrow. On the other hand, no one is visible on the 6:05 p.m. one. And at 7:05 p. m., you can't see anything, except flames and a lot of smoke.
Source: Liberation
20/ Youtubers have already climbed on the roof of the cathedral
- May 2018, a video that proves that even without scaffolding the building can be climbed.
Hey c'est Alex et Nono ! Aujourd'hui on vous montre des images inédites de Notre Dame de Paris !---------- Nos instagrams ----------@les_chemineaux ⺠https:/...
youtu.be
- October 2018, when the scaffolding is already present:
Simon NogueiraINSTA: https://www.instagram.com/simonnogueira/FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/SimonNogueiraFreerun/WEBSITE: http://www.simonnogueira.comMAI...
youtu.be
21/ The accidental trail is very quickly pushed back, without waiting for the results of the investigation
On Tuesday, Paris public prosecutor Rémy Heitz said that the accidental lead was "privileged", assuring that "nothing goes in the direction of a voluntary act. »
When looking for the truth, no hypothesis is favoured, otherwise the results may be of the order of confirmation bias.
22/ A "big boom" was heard at the beginning of the fire
I watched the last celebration recorded at Notre-Dame on the KTO television site (ktotv.com): Vespers on Monday, April 15, 2019, filmed between 5:45 pm and 6:15 pm. At 6:15 pm, the television crew leaves (and with them an objective witness who can provide images and sounds). The last mass then begins, it is interrupted at 6:20 pm by the first fire alarm. We're evacuating, but no fire was found. The evacuees return to the interior of the building.
Then, according to one participant at this mass, we heard "a big boom", followed by the 2nd fire alarm, at 6:43 p. m. We evacuate again, this time definitively, and the participant notices that no fire is visible from the outside, nor any smoke, there is only "a strange light".
Source: Sylvie Rinaudo's commentary on Batiactu
Another testimony:
Hélène Bodenez, professor of Literature in Paris, was at Mass at Notre-Dame on Monday enfin during the day when the fire alarm went off. She tells how she experienced this tragic event.
[...]
In the choir, the lady next to me asks me if I heard like her "the loud noise". My answer is yes, although I do not know exactly where it came from or what it covered. More like high and left. I am used to fire alarms as a teacher, however, I wonder if it is one. But the Vigils are coming and are evacuating everyone. Even the fidèles of the mass. Around 6:35 p. m.
Source: aleteia
What could be the source that caused this noise?
The Symbols
Here are the coincidences that can be found. It's up to you to make up your mind:
- The disaster occurs on the first day of Holy Week
- The President of the Republic was to make a much awaited speech
- A fire drill had taken place a few days earlier; André Finot, head of communication at Notre Dame Cathedral, told the Parisian: "We heard the alarm sound at 6:30 pm. An alarm that was immediately identified and recognized because we had been engaged in a fire drill a few days ago. "At the same time, al-Aqsa Mosque is on fire in Jerusalem:
- Notre-Dame de Paris burned on the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic (April 15, 1912).
- During the Notre-Dame de Paris fire, Michelle Obama enjoyed a dinner on a bateau-mouche on the Seine. Source: Closer
- The logo of the company that erected the scaffolding recalls that of Freemasonry:
![Le Bra Frères, logo Le Bra Frères, logo](/forum/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.sott.net%2Fimage%2Fs25%2F519151%2Flarge%2FLe_Bras_Fr%C3%A8res.jpg&hash=a24c145874bb6de8b6e637db57f368c0)
Le Bra Frères, logo
More precisely, the scaffolding was erected by "Europe scaffolding", a subsidiary of the company "Le Bras Frères".
- Before the Christian period in France, a Gallo-Roman temple dedicated to Jupiter stood on the site of Notre-Dame.
- Cover of The Economist in 2017:
The economist 2017
![The economist 2017 The economist 2017](/forum/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.sott.net%2Fimage%2Fs25%2F519179%2Flarge%2FThe_Economist_2017.jpg&hash=a14cddebed9f1be8822e65005b4c0446)
1st image: "The Tower"