Free will in a relationship

[agni]

Carlybee, unless you realize you are an addict and why you fall for such relationships, the story you are in, will most likely repeat like a record.

Thing is, you will end up paying no matter what, only difference is how: you pay in full, by yourself as a gratitude, if you learn the lesson; or "teacher" (program/situation) will make you do chores and things as a substitute for real payment as it deems necessary for your stay where you are at. At the end, you either pay to life itself, or you pay to illusion of learning. In return you will get exactly what you've paid for.

You say you haven't mastered your emotions enough to cut ties and then say you are not sure whether to end it first and then try to work on yourself in a "cloud of emotional pain." Dear, in case you haven't figured it out, being able to do what is right, because it is right, no matter how much pain you may feel IS THE WORK. This is HOW you "master your emotions." You seem to want your cake and eat it too! "Oh, wait until I'm really tired of this and hate him enough to toss him out..." it won't be work then, it will just be what you went through before and you will have learned nothing and developed no particular abilities of mastery. You want "tools" to help yourself "heal and learn and grow." Ummm... you either do it or you don't. There are no shortcuts, there is no easy way.

Certain addictive brain chemicals are being produced in your body as a result of prior programming/conditioning and lack of emotional training. These chemicals are running your show, not you. It's like you are living in a house you own, but a gang of 3 year-old thieves and vandals have moved in and taken over and keep you locked in a closet. You think that if you just stay still that they will get bored and go away. Well, maybe they will. But the thing is, they are only three years old and you can, at any time, open the door and round them up and get them out. Oh, sure, they are cute as buttons, rosy cheeked and curly blond hair, and you just feel that you aren't able to send them out in the cold and rain because it would make you feel like such a b*tch and you might be thought not nice by some stranger looking on. But don't be fooled, they are little demons and they will destroy everything in your house, steal all your money, and leave only when you are left with nothing.

That's the nature of most of our programs. And you are letting them run your life.

Neat ! That's pretty much how I perceive/paint programs in my mind.

Can I please publish part of the posting on the blog (both eng/rus) with credit to original poster ? Post is simple and so full of wise context... It's a piece of art.

 

[luke wilson]

You know that checklist of what to look out for?

Well, this guy ticks nearly all the boxes. It looks so blatantly obvious it is mindblowing. I cannot believe you are actually questioning yourself. The way he turned the tables on you, that should have been it, OMG! Alarm bells should be ringing left right and center.

Advise would be to disengage. Immediately.

Not only does he sound like a grade A narcissist, he might also be a grade A psychopath for all you know. I would say, if you value your wellbeing/health to discontinue immediately. I highly doubt he likes you, I think he is using you...

The only thing left before this becomes full-blown Code Red is physical abuse or maybe financial ruin any of which would be disastrous. I think emotional damage is well and truly underway.

I think you are attracted to an image of guys who project a certain level of confidence. I remember reading awhile back that your ex-husband was an entrepreneur. Sadly though, that arena of that level of confidence is where most of the wolves like to hang out. Advise is, if you happen to meet someone that is so confident they dont question themselves, run for the hills... Ontop of that, if they happen to be masterful at turning the table and putting you on the spotlight making you question your sanity, NEVER LOOK BACK!

 

[FireShadow]

I just want to add my agreement with all the advice given to get away from this guy.

I know also the feelings as I once lived with one of these type guys as well. Yes, I understand the "pull" they have over us. But to give in to the pull can (and usually does) come with a very high price tag. In the end, I felt lucky to get away with my life. The psychological damage took quite awhile to heal.

Confronting him and engaging with him in any kind of conversation about this is futile. These types are practiced at saying just those things that will short circuit your resolve and keep you thinking in circles. Best to just cut him loose.

as Laura says:

It's one thing to Work in a relationship that CAN be normal if external considering is applied, quite another thing to try to Work in a relationship of inevitable harm - a pathological duet.

Based on what you have said, this guy sounds like one of those pathological types. There does not seem to me to be any chance that he is capable of a normal relationship.

If he is so spiritual, why does he not care about your feelings? Seems he only cares about his own "freedom" to me.

If he created his illness and can heal it, why does he not heal it? Why feel sorry for someone who creates their own illness and won't heal it? Not that I believe him in this, but it is his story line and he is welcome to it.

I wish you strength and resolve. Of course, it is your choice in what to do (and your price to pay for the wrong choice.)

 

[luke wilson]

I'm just not sure whether to end it first then try to focus on the work in a cloud of emotional pain, or distance myself and do the work until I feel I have mastered my emotions enough to have some tools to help myself heal, learn and grow.

:O :O

OMG, I have just re-read this! ALARM BELLS! This looks suspiciously like an escape route. Do not listen to this logic! This is doubt! Doubt in this situation is a BAD THING! Doubt keeps you in, instead of getting you out.

If you are expecting to master your emotions before you free yourself into a better environment, you'll be stuck in this situation for a VERY long time. By the time it comes to an end, I GUARANTEE you that the only thing you'd have mastered, is how to be successfully abused. I hate to be harsh, but that is the truth.

Carlybee I question your commitment to improve yourself. I think you should question it to. Anart said, PATHOLOGY 101, that is basic level knowledge especially when it is as blatant as this. What kind of person says they made themselves ill and can make themselves better at anytime... This is pure lunacy! Beyond crazy! It is not even funny. I cannot believe you fell for this. I cannot believe you didnt question him further! OMG!

When he says because he doesnt think you believe him or trust him, that basically translates to he wants you to be his little puppy dog and do as he desires, when he desires. To comply and be his subordinate. OMG! For the sake of sanity, JUST DO WHAT IS RIGHT! I fear you're being conditioned.

I can bet my non-existant house that this guy became a spiritual teacher to a) get a huge ego boost and b) meet people like you. This is pure predatory territory. What better place to look for women looking for guidance and abit vulnerable. HOLY COW! Picture the savannah and in this case, you are the deer that is about to become lunch. But unlike a deer, you dont want to get yourself out of that situation ESPECIALLY when you have the power to do so. That is TRAGIC! When a deer see's a hungry Lion coming its way, it just doesnt stand there waiting, OMG! I hope you are getting the picture. I am out of analogies. Oh wait, I got one more.

Not only did you stand there waiting, you went 1 better and invited the lion to your HOUSE!!! YOU KNOW! I THINK AT THIS LEVEL YOU DESERVE TO BE LUNCH!!

I am sorry, but, that is the reality.

 

[Laura]

Sure, Agni. Thanks.

 

[Aiming]

Not only did you stand there waiting, you went 1 better and invited the lion to your HOUSE!!! YOU KNOW! I THINK AT THIS LEVEL YOU DESERVE TO BE LUNCH!!

I am sorry, but, that is the reality.

I understand where you're coming from, luke wilson, and that this serves as a wake up shock. But I think nobody deserves to be food. I think being food is simply a consequence of a lack of knowledge or of not applying knowledge. Saying somebody deserves it is like passing a judgement, and I don't know how helpful that is.
On the other hand, it could well be that I'm too identified because of my own experiences and that's why I'm coming to Carly's defense, not sure.

 

[luke wilson]

Figure of speech Enaid. And it was a joke... But, uhmm I can take you up on that 'no one deserves to be food comment.' I mean, if you make all the moves to be food, Who is anyone to judge? There is a very good reason animals like deer run away from predators... I mean, if one day, you saw a lion stalking a deer and the deer saw the lion moving in for the kill but didnt run away. What would you think? What about if it lay down flat on its stomach? Surely the deer is asking to be food? NO? I know what the lion will think, that is if it doesnt think that is a crazy deer so I probably shouldnt eat it, it'll probably think, 'I think it is my dangerously rugged looks, now to dine.' But that is a whole different argument.

I am gunning for carlybee aswell.

 

[Laura]

Figure of speech Enaid. And it was a joke... But, uhmm I can take you up on that 'no one deserves to be food comment.' I mean, if you make all the moves to be food, Who is anyone to judge? There is a very good reason animals like deer run away from predators... I mean, if one day, you saw a lion stalking a deer and the deer saw the lion moving in for the kill but didnt run away. What would you think? What about if it lay down flat on its stomach? Surely the deer is asking to be food? NO? I know what the lion will think, that is if it doesnt think that is a crazy deer so I probably shouldnt eat it, it'll probably think, 'I think it is my dangerously rugged looks, now to dine.' But that is a whole different argument.

I am gunning for carlybee aswell.

I think you mean "rooting" for carlybee... but I understand what you mean here. As I've written before, we will either return to our roots of forming strong communities that factor in the presence of intraspecies predators, or we will become extinct. Obviously, in this particular time in the Earth's history when we are actually in the final stages of an extinction event that includes humanity, only those human beings that get it will survive into the new reality. Nature is culling the herd. There is probably little possibility that Carly will be prepared for anything that is ahead in the next couple of years as long as her energy is being spent on believing lies and feeding a predator; but that's Nature.

Carly has not only been through this before, she is a member of this forum where this type of predation is exposed. She's had experience, and she had access to analysis and tools for learning that she didn't bother to utilize. It may seem cruel, but the lion only eats the weak and/or stupid antelope and the herd is stronger for it. Those who have the will of lions do not have the fates of weak antelope.

 

[CrimsonEagle]

Not only did you stand there waiting, you went 1 better and invited the lion to your HOUSE!!! YOU KNOW! I THINK AT THIS LEVEL YOU DESERVE TO BE LUNCH!!

I am sorry, but, that is the reality.

I understand where you're coming from, luke wilson, and that this serves as a wake up shock. But I think nobody deserves to be food. I think being food is simply a consequence of a lack of knowledge or of not applying knowledge. Saying somebody deserves it is like passing a judgement, and I don't know how helpful that is.
On the other hand, it could well be that I'm too identified because of my own experiences and that's why I'm coming to Carly's defense, not sure.

I agree with this. Deserving to be food is not what I see. It seems that everyone, or almost everyone is potentially food and it is dependent on their strengths and weaknesses.

We are always learning, always. I can not help but wonder how it would make me feel if someone who I believe to have more insight than myself slams me and says that I deserve what I get just because I am ignorant of the consequences and things to me are not as clear cut to me as they appear to be to others.

It appears to me that the OP is at the very least attempting to struggle with something within herself in the way of posting here. She seems to recognize that something is wrong, yet does not have the strength to do what in her heart she already knows the answer to, possibly because of fear of perceived losses or something of that nature.

I would think that she already knows the answer yet she wants to deny it, thus her seeming confusion in her post.(at least it seemed that she was confused to me).

It is up to her weather she takes any advice she has received here and much of this is really dependent upon her inner strength. Does she have the strength and wisdom to accept the truth and does she have the strength of will to do what has to be done?

To myself, I may see someone doing something that I find to be harmful, potentially deadly. I shout out a warning and they turn to me and think that I'm over reacting because they just do not see the danger. They then get hurt.

Do I look at them condescendingly and tell them that they deserve everything they got, or do I have empathy for them and realize that they had to learn this lesson on their own and in my heart hope that they were able to learn?

Some of the lessons we experience are quite harsh and something which may be obvious to some may not be even remotely visible to others. That is just the way it is.

There is nothing that I can say to the OP that has not already been said. I can only hope that she understands and does what has to be done. If not, then I can only hope that she suffers as little as possible while the lesson plays out with it hopefully ending up in an eventual understanding so that the lesson does not have to be repeated.

How many lessons did I have to repeat because I ignored or did not recognize them as they occurred. Each time the lesson was repeated it was more and more harsh, to the point that it almost killed me before I stopped and looked inside of myself. It did not matter that others warned me. I did not believe them because I could not see it and even when I did begin to see it I still did not want to change. I had to learn the hard way.

Hopefully the OP takes the advice given by others and takes it to heart so that she can avoid learning it the hard way.

She will either be food or she wont. There is no deserving about it.

At least thats the way I see it.

Dave

 

[luke wilson]

I was joking! :D

Please! OMG!

Just to set the record straight so we can get back to talking about carlybee, no one deserves to be food. I dont know if nature understands that yet(<---- another joke :D), but yah, no one deserves to be food.

I hope that clears the air.

 

[Laurentien2]

CrimsonEagle

It appears to me that the OP is at the very least attempting to struggle with something within herself in the way of posting here. She seems to recognize that something is wrong, yet does not have the strength to do what in her heart she already knows the answer to, possibly because of fear of perceived losses or something of that nature.

What make you so sure that carlybee is an OP. On what do you base this statement.

There is nothing that I can say to the OP that has not already been said. I can only hope that she understands and does what has to be done. If not, then I can only hope that she suffers as little as possible while the lesson plays out with it hopefully ending up in an eventual understanding so that the lesson does not have to be repeated.

See above

How many lessons did I have to repeat because I ignored or did not recognize them as they occurred. Each time the lesson was repeated it was more and more harsh, to the point that it almost killed me before I stopped and looked inside of myself. It did not matter that others warned me. I did not believe them because I could not see it and even when I did begin to see it I still did not want to change. I had to learn the hard way.

Are you saying that you are an OP as well because you have repeated the same mistake again and again.

 

[anart]

CrimsonEagle

It appears to me that the OP is at the very least attempting to struggle with something within herself in the way of posting here. She seems to recognize that something is wrong, yet does not have the strength to do what in her heart she already knows the answer to, possibly because of fear of perceived losses or something of that nature.

What make you so sure that carlybee is an OP. On what do you base this statement.

I think in this context he meant 'original poster' - though it would have been more clear of him to use her name. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure he'll let us know.

 

[Mountain Crown]

The word deserve has the meaning of entitled to, earn.

To be fair to luke, “you deserve it” is often used as a caution or warning, in the same way as “you made your bed, now you must sleep in it.”

In other words,

Due to stubborn resistance to cautionary knowledge, the results are no one else’s fault than one’s own, and not worthy of sympathy.

 

[CrimsonEagle]

CrimsonEagle

It appears to me that the OP is at the very least attempting to struggle with something within herself in the way of posting here. She seems to recognize that something is wrong, yet does not have the strength to do what in her heart she already knows the answer to, possibly because of fear of perceived losses or something of that nature.

What make you so sure that carlybee is an OP. On what do you base this statement.

I think in this context he meant 'original poster' - though it would have been more clear of him to use her name. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure he'll let us know.

OOOOOOHHHH....now that was stupid of me.

Yes Anart, you are correct, I was implying original poster. I do apologize for any confusion. I completely did not take into consideration how OP is used in this forum. Foolish oversight.

I really have to remember where I am posting :(

Dave

 

[Aiming]

Thanks for clarifying luke. I do of course see the urgency for us to learn to not be food anymore, and that if we don't we'll be eaten and that is that.

What I had in mind when quoting your post was actually empathy, as Crimson Eagle put it in the quote below, but I was still trying to figure out whether I was simply identifying and reacting. Which I did to some extent.

Do I look at them condescendingly and tell them that they deserve everything they got, or do I have empathy for them and realize that they had to learn this lesson on their own and in my heart hope that they were able to learn?