Free will in a relationship

[Laurentien2]

CrimsonEagle

It appears to me that the OP is at the very least attempting to struggle with something within herself in the way of posting here. She seems to recognize that something is wrong, yet does not have the strength to do what in her heart she already knows the answer to, possibly because of fear of perceived losses or something of that nature.

What make you so sure that carlybee is an OP. On what do you base this statement.

I think in this context he meant 'original poster' - though it would have been more clear of him to use her name. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure he'll let us know.

My mistake then, that prove again that I need to work on my English.

 

[CrimsonEagle]

CrimsonEagle

It appears to me that the OP is at the very least attempting to struggle with something within herself in the way of posting here. She seems to recognize that something is wrong, yet does not have the strength to do what in her heart she already knows the answer to, possibly because of fear of perceived losses or something of that nature.

What make you so sure that carlybee is an OP. On what do you base this statement.

I think in this context he meant 'original poster' - though it would have been more clear of him to use her name. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure he'll let us know.

My mistake then, that prove again that I need to work on my English.

No Laurentien, that was my fault for forgetting how and what OP normally represents on this forum.

Many forums, OP is used to indicate Original Poster where as here OP is recognized as Organic Portal. Forgetful mind and lack of consideration on my part that there may be some who did not realize that there is an alternative use of OP.

If I could I would go back and change the post for clarification, but perhaps its for the better that I cant to act as a reminder to be mindful:)

Dave.

 

[luke wilson]

Thanks for clarifying luke. I do of course see the urgency for us to learn to not be food anymore, and that if we don't we'll be eaten and that is that.

What I had in mind when quoting your post was actually empathy, as Crimson Eagle put it in the quote below, but I was still trying to figure out whether I was simply identifying and reacting. Which I did to some extent.

Do I look at them condescendingly and tell them that they deserve everything they got, or do I have empathy for them and realize that they had to learn this lesson on their own and in my heart hope that they were able to learn?

I think it all comes down to interpretation. I to have learnt new things from this thread. Honestly speaking, and please correct me if I am wrong, I think you were over-identifying and sharing in Carlybee's victimhood. In a way you were saying, it is ok, it is ok, it is ok. BUT, it is not ok! I understand the huge emotional mountain carlybee has to climb over but where is she going to find the strength to do it when she is getting subliminal messages telling her it is ok?? That is my take on it! Furthermore, by alluding it is ok, I think that mountain just ballooons in size and seems even more impossible to get over. I would be very interested to see what she does, because this has the possibility of being a defining moment for her. The way I see it, you can be exceedingly cold to her, say she should know better which is bad, because it might make her just give up or you could be exceedingly warm then you make her feel okay-ish with the situation. I think the balance required to give someone strength is hard to find. Maybe what carlybee was looking for, is strength. I hope she finds it.

Just as a sidenote, I dont mean any negativity. I understand the 'lack of empathy' you are referring to. Saying someone deserves to be food is downright not ok, eventhough that isnt what I meant but some people took it literally. Also using the whole predator analogy is just cold, black and white. Again it cancels out all the subtleties involved. So I to have learnt lessons. Thank you.

 

[mkrnhr]

When someone asks help and advice, the STO "attitude" is to provide. There is certainly internal struggle and apart some noise, most of the posts show consideration and respect of free will. I think it is natural now to let Carlybee take her decision and if she needs more advice, she certainly knows where to ask.
When i was a kid we learnt something at school that was "if you have nothing useful to say, shut your mouth", words have signification and impact. They have to be used with care, especially when the asking person is in turmoil.

 

[luke wilson]

When someone asks help and advice, the STO "attitude" is to provide. There is certainly internal struggle and apart some noise, most of the posts show consideration and respect of free will. I think it is natural now to let Carlybee take her decision and if she needs more advice, she certainly knows where to ask.
When i was a kid we learnt something at school that was "if you have nothing useful to say, shut your mouth", words have signification and impact. They have to be used with care, especially when the asking person is in turmoil.

That is why I apologised. I understand words are a very delicate thing. Abit like tnt. I agree that carlybee has probably got more information than she needs in this thread. In my previous post I was rather asking the best way of delivering help, in general not necessarily interms of carlybee's situation. Sometimes, people ask for help, yes it is within there own free will to act upon what they are given, but sometimes, depending on how the help is delievered will either make it more likely that they will act or not... I suppose it is abit like medicine. You have to take it a certain way for it to work... Just personal musings because as Laura said, this is not the 1st time carlybee has been in this situation. So I was wondering why it happened again, essentially a relapse... I know lessons, etc. But again, inorder for lessons to be learnt, they have to be delivered a certain way. I dont think the universe just throws it in your face and says, THERE.

Thanks for your input mkrnhr, alot to think about.

 

[truth seeker]

Just personal musings because as Laura said, this is not the 1st time carlybee has been in this situation. So I was wondering why it happened again, essentially a relapse...

Well, perhaps it may help if you think about your own struggles and how they are challenging for you personally? Each individual's struggles are personal to them and sometimes equally as difficult. Consider chemicals and how they can work in the brain to prevent us from acting in our own best interests.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how one chooses to view it) things seem to be speeding up and the opportunities for learning are increasing or at least that's how I choose to see it. :)

 

[luke wilson]

Just personal musings because as Laura said, this is not the 1st time carlybee has been in this situation. So I was wondering why it happened again, essentially a relapse...

Well, perhaps it may help if you think about your own struggles and how they are challenging for you personally? Each individual's struggles are personal to them and sometimes equally as difficult. Consider chemicals and how they can work in the brain to prevent us from acting in our own best interests.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how one chooses to view it) things seem to be speeding up and the opportunities for learning are increasing or at least that's how I choose to see it. :)

In this case, I wish carlybee the best of luck. This struggles are definately challenging. Hopefully the universe can give us all a boost to get over our own personal dilemmas.

 

[Buddy]

Carlybee, I resonated so strongly with Laura and Finduilas495's recent posts, I got goosebumps because I sooo agree.

Thing is, you are in a pickle. And if it were me, the quickest way out would be for someone to put me in a therapeutic double-bind. IOW, to make me so mad about my weakness that I would surge up with a 'righteous' anger and an attitude that: "I'll show you I can get out of this situation, G. D. it!"

Of course, this would be another chemical reaction, but sometimes maybe we could fight fire with fire, so-to-speak.

We don't deliberately anger people here though, and only the experts can do proper mirroring, so I would encourage some serious contemplation on all these views that's been offered you. :)

 

[Divide by Zero]

Carlybee, please take the warnings seriously. I started off my search for knowledge in the new age field and the gurus who later on were exposed as liars talked just like this guy. It very well may be that the psychopath is attracted to the idea of creating his/her own reality from new age.

Also, one of my former girlfriends dated a psychopath or extreme narcissist. Despite her intelligence, he was able to make her feel bad about things that he caused. Seriously, pathological types are very hard to reason with. I read the book "Women who love psychopaths" a while after that relationship and was amazed at how damaging a psychopath/narcissist can be!

Of course there is an ability to heal, but you have been on this forum for a while and have the tools/warnings to avoid this situation! In this case, it doesn't seem like a gray area, so far what he has said has been almost word for word from the book! EEK!

 

[melatonin]

Just want to share my experience in a survivor forum.
The people there were constantly in abusive relationships. They would cut out other forms of coping, like drugs, drink and eating disorders and think they had healed.
The abusive relationship was the last one to go because its often so invisible to the victim. People on there used to go round and round in circles. Members would keep offering the person support (including myself) which would basically keep them 'floating above water' (which kept them in the cycle). When really what was needed was for the person to 'crash' so that they would have to see the result of their behaviour themselves.
So in that situation STO would of been to tell the person to look at themselves and offer no compasion, rather than acting as a constant springboard so they keep going round in circles.
Easier said than done of course. (changing patterns of behaviour).

 

[truth seeker]

In this case, I wish carlybee the best of luck. This struggles are definately challenging. Hopefully the universe can give us all a boost to get over our own personal dilemmas.

And just to be clear, understanding why someone makes the choices they do doesn't exempt them from responsibility. Carly has been here long enough and I hope that she is carefully considering everything that's being said.

I'll just say to you Carly, I've seen enough at this point through my own experiences and the experiences of others. One of the hardest things for us to come to grips with is how someone will act when they have been scratched and are about to lose their food. I've personally witnessed how the mask drops and the person becomes someone we don't even recognize! Even then, we struggle to understand and explain away this behavior by trying to make sense out of crazy. It just keeps us engaged in the illusion. This person has a high possibility of becoming angry and may make it difficult for you to leave. Be prepared for that.

I don't want to hurt you more than you've already been, but it wouldn't surprise me if he already has someone else lined up. That would actually be a blessing in disguise. I realize that you didn't get the response you expected but please understand that we are looking out for your own best interests and are fighting (and rooting) for that part of you that is seeking truth even if it doesn't feel that way. The truth is that he doesn't love you - if he did, he would take your concerns seriously even if he didn't necessarily agree with them.

You may want to be loved and currently feel that this is the best you deserve. Know that you are loved. We love you! This is an opportunity for you to stand up for yourself and say "I deserve better.". It is only then, that the way will be cleared for someone who is truly worthy of you to enter - when you can show that you will value that representative and will in gratitude take care of that gift. Take care.

 

[Aiming]

Honestly speaking, and please correct me if I am wrong, I think you were over-identifying and sharing in Carlybee's victimhood. In a way you were saying, it is ok, it is ok, it is ok. BUT, it is not ok!

I did relate to Carly's situation, but I didn't pity her. When however I read "you deserve being food" I reacted emotionally and wanted to come to her defense. The emotional thinking went something like this: "She has a whole lot on her plate right now anyway, even if self-induced. Coming in and telling her she has deserved it is like giving her another painful kick. Why hurt her if all that's important is to provide an opportunity for her to see her wrong choices."

But of course this can easily lead to feeding situations, IOW feeding the other's false self, especially if the person has already received feedback on a similar situation and is now repeating the dynamic.

I think over-indentification set in when I "perceived" a judgement, which is directly related to my own fear of judgement, and especially in a situation I've been in, too. Interesting. Thanks Luke. :)

 

[RyanX]

Thanks for all your useful comments everyone I really appreciate it. I have suspected traits from the big 5 books but his intoxication of what he says had made me turn a blind eye to it

<snip>

Thanks again for your comments, in a way I am learning more and more about how individuals work, and it helps to share with people outside the box as Im very emotionally addicted to this intoxicating man at present.

Since you are addicted and you don't really want to change anything, I'm wondering why you even brought it up? I suspect that you are drained by him and you need attention here to feel better. You did the same thing while ending your last relationship - got lots of support and then basically disappeared while you partied on and looked for another drama. Sorry, if you want things to really get better, you have to learn to master your chemicals and programs and that means work, probably the hardest work you've ever contemplated.

I suggest that when you are ready to work, you come back, but if you just want to play in the dirt, keep it outside, please.

You're right, I put up with it because I stopped doing the work and fell off the wagon and as a result was not prepared for a manipulative type like this. Now I feel stuck as I haven't mastered my emotions enough yet to cut ties. I did try to do this a month ago but the emotional anguish was too intense and I caved. I know there's no quick fix and I've definately learned a valuable and painful lesson here. I will go get stuck into the work on mastering myself, I'm just not sure whether to end it first then try to focus on the work in a cloud of emotional pain, or distance myself and do the work until I feel I have mastered my emotions enough to have some tools to help myself heal, learn and grow.

Just getting caught up on this thread and I thought I'd offer my $0.02

Carlybee,

From my own experience, you won't be able to do any Work on yourself without ending your this toxic relationship you've started with this 'spiritual' grifter. It's just not possible.

Like Laura mentioned further down, what about your son? What is his perception of all this is? How much is he exposed to this boyfriend of yours? Your son just lost his nuclear family, and now you're throwing somebody new in the mix who basically sounds like a pathological deviant from your description. What sort of trauma and narcissistic wounding are you inflicting on him due to your inability to control your hormonal/sexual urges? There's nothing spiritual about what's going on here.

If you want to do something truly spiritual, you would end this fantasy relationship of yours, toss the guy out on the street, and apologize to your son in full; tell him that Mommy made a mistake, but from now on she will see to it that her little man is number one. Give him lots of hugs and tell him that the crazy man is gone.

Sorry if I'm being a little harsh here. One of my friends is going through a divorce right now and his soon-to-be-ex sounds a lot like you. Please, for the sake of your son, get your act together.

 

[Carlybee]

Hi guys, I gathered my guts and ended it this morning after calling him out on so many levels, it was too much to ignore my instincts and hurt just by being in his deliberate, unaffectionate presence. I will tell you it took all the guts and confidence I had left to confront him, and he reacted very badly laying blame upon me for not believing in him, questioning his 'teaching' methods and not trusting him, regardless that I caught 'him' out with an ex on Skype arranging a weekend getaway when Im out of the state, yet he had the audacity to question me if I were cheating on him, which I found almost funny with his poor attempt to project his very self onto me! I told him if he's so great at reading language patterns, body language, nlp and knows what my subconscious is thinking, then look me directly in the eyes and ask me that question again...well he couldn't look at me or ask the question.

After this mornings outrage from his disgust at the way I kicked him out, the way he packed his car and left without even saying goodbye, and plastering 'single status' all over his facebook by lunchtime shows me he's full of it when it comes to preaching unconditional love, compassion for others and the maturity level of this 41 year old was astounding. In saying that I actually do feel compassion for him. I basically said to him after I called him out on his blatant narcissist, psychopathic detached, manipulative behaviour, that I love you, but I love me more and I would like you to leave now. I admit I was shaking when I said it and I had to hold my green tea with both hands but it was exactly how I felt and I wanted to express that as calmly as I could, as that was my big step.

The 3 month relationship would have ended much earlier if I had felt stronger and recognised the full value of myself, but I know now I wasnt ready for a new relationship 12 months on from my first marriage of emotional destruction lol, I was still mending and gaining strength. I have learned a tough lesson today which I can actually thank this predator for and the support from this forum which is to listen to my intuition and act straight away, love, respect and trust in myself that I can work through the pain and old abandonment program which began the day my Mother suicided 14 years ago. I would re-live the same pain after each relationship ending, I would compromise my values and self worth and do anything to avoid the pain of being abandoned and I was repeating the cycle over and over like a washing machine and I really feel today I pulled the plug on it! Today I broke that pattern and ended it, and to be honest the pain is not as gut wrenching as I thought it would be since asserting myself to this man, yes my ego is a bit bruised for being so gullible to allow such a manipulative trickster into my life, try to break me for his own personal gain and walk away like I never existed, but at the same time I feel more confident in myself for one, not sitting back and believing all he fed me like the other doting women in his life, two, for calling him out on it, and three loving myself enough to get rid of him. It will be a road to travel but I believe I got a lot more valuable lessons from this than I even did in my marriage as this guy was the most sinister, master manipulator you could imagine, and no-one saw it coming not even my family and friends, the show was that good.

I fear he will run to the next victim to leech from and not learn his own lesson to apply to himself what he preaches, as you cant teach something you dont have yourself, he has taught me how to love myself first yet he cant do that for himself which he may not ever be able to if he is of narcissistic, psychopathic nature, I learnt the hard way....they dont love! Its the most bizarre, lonely, self doubting experience I have ever had, even my ex husband showed love and affection a lot, this guy made my ex look like a puppy dog! So what do you do? Apart from the obvious and run for the hills once you recognise them lol) Everything he teaches in his seminars about unconditional love is the very thing he is incapable of doing himself, well from what I experienced in the 3 months I knew him.

I do still want to express my giving loving nature but I will be learning and dedicating much more of my time learning much more about these predators, and using much more rationale and logic instead of heart wide open before even considering another potential mate in the future.

Almost every post here reiterated to me to go with gut instincts, run and never look back no matter how much I fear the painful journey of recovery, Im so glad I did this today, so thankyou for all the feedback.

 

[truth seeker]

I'm not sure how to ask this. You spoke about your mother yet I'm wondering if it was really your father you may have been seeking in this relationship? One of the things that sticks out for me is that he presented himself as a teacher. Perhaps one of the things you were hoping to gain was a feeling of being special or chosen by someone who presented himself as being special or who may have been considered that way by others ?