French Presidential Elections 2017: Fillon vs Macron vs Le Pen

Sow said:
luc said:
...

I'm not a fan of the FN to be sure, but I find it ironic that I see more Nazi-style behavior on the (radical) left than on the right -
...
Are there Nazi mobs on the streets in France? Do you see FN gangs marching on the streets putting stuff on fire? Maybe I don't have the full picture, but I haven't seen such images so far...

That's true luc, and I don't like either these behaviors.
If you don't see neo-nazis images now in France, it doesn't mean that it can't happen. And as I said above, the FN adopted a very low attitude to attract people to them.
It makes me think that "if" Le Pen was elected (hardly any chance for this scenario) there would be a lot of riots everywhere in France, a big mess could happen...
If Le Pen wins, then there could be lots of riots everywhere, but it will be from the anti-Le Pen crowd. It appears as if you are thinking or alluding to that it will be Le Pen's people who will be the cause of the riots.

If could well be a scenario similar to the election of Trump, where lots of protests and riots happened, but those were started by the Hillary camp and very much supported and funded by the establishment. The Trump supporters did not go out rioting and likewise do I find it hard to think that Len Pen supporters would start rioting all over France just because she won.
 
Interesting development - Marine Le Pen has voluntarily stepped down as leader of her party, the FN.

https://www.sott.net/article/349123-Marine-Le-Pen-resigns-as-Front-National-party-leader-to-focus-on-presidential-election

Now that she has made it into the second round, this seems like a strategic move in order to distance herself from some of the more 'perceived' negative aspects of her nationalistic party and widen her appeal as a more non-partisan candidate. As the comment on the sott article says, this is a smart move on her part.
 
One observation: I have been listening to Radio France Internationale from Paris at FM 89.0 MHz and noticed the coverage and reporting, even though I do not understand everything, is much more en favour of Macron. Voting in favour of Le Pen, when being a regular listener of this channel, would be a harder choice, or is it just because the station is located in Paris which appears to be Macron country, according to the map i found on _http://scd.rfi.fr/sites/filesrfi/imagecache/rfi_16x9_1024_578/sites/images.rfi.fr/files/aef_image/carte-resultats-afp_0.png attached below, in case the above site is changed. The map is small, but Paris is the yellow area in the upper left corner of France, surrounded by darker colour which is Marine Le Pen.

Technical detail about finding the radio station of Radio France International from Paris:
The 89.0 MHz is easily found through _http://radiomap.eu/fr/paris When you open the channel from "Radiomap.eu" it begins playing in _http://radiomap.eu/fr/play/rfi_monde There one hears mainly French politics and news. When you post this same link in another browser or window then "_http://radiomap.eu/fr/play/rfi_monde" leads to the same emission as "Direct Afrique" found on _http://www.rfi.fr/ In other words, the local FM 89.0 MHz station seems to be different from "Direct Afrique" even though the link looks the same.
 

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Laura said:
...

First of all, consider the liberal left in the US (and elsewhere) as it was 45 years ago: a very different animal than it is today.

Consider also Russia 45 years ago: another very different animal than what it is today.

Consider that the FN as it was 45 years ago could also be very different from what it is today.

Are YOU the same person you were 45 years ago?

People and organizations and countries (and other entities) change; sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Ponerization can take place, and also purging and cleaning up can take place. Shifts in ideology based on the learning and experiences of those in charge can take place.

It IS highly suggestive that the MSM propaganda is against Le Pen and that ought to be taken into account as having some weight, though we can't always be sure of what it means.

From my point of view, as I stated it early in the US election thread, even if Trump turns out to be another Hitler, it at least gets things moving; this slow destruction of our psyche's with the torture of a thousand cuts cannot be borne. The Cs have pretty clearly stated that there will be a totalitarian regime imposed pretty much on the whole world and THEN things will change. And let's face it, people are simply NOT going to wake up unless and until they get miserable enough.

So, from my point of view, I say let's get the show on the road and let the chips fall where they may. If the MSM doesn't want Trump or Le Pen - or at least pretends they don't in order to manipulate those who are sick of the status quo to vote them in so they can, at last, impose their full spectrum dominance - so be it! That's a step toward waking up.

Laura, you are being very clear. Your point of view is actually one that I can relate to.
Thank you by the way to take the time to answer.
Let's keep waking up !
 
Aeneas said:
...

If Le Pen wins, then there could be lots of riots everywhere, but it will be from the anti-Le Pen crowd. It appears as if you are thinking or alluding to that it will be Le Pen's people who will be the cause of the riots.

If could well be a scenario similar to the election of Trump, where lots of protests and riots happened, but those were started by the Hillary camp and very much supported and funded by the establishment. The Trump supporters did not go out rioting and likewise do I find it hard to think that Len Pen supporters would start rioting all over France just because she won.

Aeneas, I was not clear enough then, because that's not what I was meaning.
Of course the riots would come from the anti-Le Pen crowd. And no, Le Pen supporters won't "start rioting all over France just because she won"...
 
Pierre said:
MK Scarlett said:
time changing from the creation of the "vile beast" that is supposed to be the FN and Le Pen family in mind French people (a long time of propaganda included from Le Pen father himself to get there).

To label JM Le Pen a 'racist', the MSM have mostly repeated (and twisted) one quote that was first made in 1987 (30 years ago) where Le Pen said that in the history of wars, the gas chambers were a detail. Of course, the MSM omitted the context (in the history of wars) and claimed that Le Pen said that the million of Jews killed in concentration camps was a detail.

When Chirac mentioned 'the noise and the smell' of flats inhabited by Arabic people, did his party get labelled 'racist'? When Sarkozy said that the immigrants suburbs should be power-washed (Karcher), was his party labelled 'racist'? When Valls asked for more whities in a local market he was visiting, was his party labelled 'racist'?

One wonders at the double standard.

This party has never been created to get the Presidential position,

The FN was not exactly created but rather developed by the socialist party. In 1981, the FN was a tiny nationalist party that got 0.18% vote. In 1984, Mitterrand asked the MSM to focus on Le Pen, that's when the development of the FN started.

The timing is key here. In 1981 Mitterrand is elected president and tries to implement a truly leftist policy (nationalisation of key industries, infrastructure programs, reduction of inequalities...) but he will cave in due to the pressure of the deep state (monetary pressure amongst other factors) in 1983. At this point the socialists embraced the neo-liberal economic doctrine and had nothing left to differentiate themselves from the right. That's when they created the 'anti-racist' political line. But for anti-racism to make sense politically, the socialist needed racism to exist politically, so the Zionist Julien Dray created 'SOS racisme' (the antiracist organisation), the media focused on alleged rampant racism in France and the FN played the role of the bogeyman: the racist party that justified the anti-racist positioning.

Of course, Establishment does not want to see their Frankenstein takes power.

But sometimes the creature turns against its creator. When you see that the PTB (in France and overseas) through each of its puppets (politicians, journalists, experts, show business personalities...) bashes endlessly Le Pen, you start to think that, maybe, she has become a real threat and indeed she's doing something right.

Thank you Pierre for adding these specifics details into my narrative of the FN. It's important to be precise, and you were.
And I agree with your last paragraph, that was my point too, you expressed it better.

Goemon_ said:
Laura said:
SNIP

However, just to get an even wider perspective on things, we'll chat with the Cs soon and inquire about all these things.

I hope you will ask about the real number for Asselineau.

That would be great to know, indeed...

Timótheos said:
Interesting development - Marine Le Pen has voluntarily stepped down as leader of her party, the FN.

https://www.sott.net/article/349123-Marine-Le-Pen-resigns-as-Front-National-party-leader-to-focus-on-presidential-election

Now that she has made it into the second round, this seems like a strategic move in order to distance herself from some of the more 'perceived' negative aspects of her nationalistic party and widen her appeal as a more non-partisan candidate. As the comment on the sott article says, this is a smart move on her part.

That's indeed a good move. I also thought on yesterday evening, that she could have done another one weeks ago: resign as a Member of European Parliament. She might do so before the second round, I cannot exclude it. But I do really think that it would have been a very smart move going to the same way than her politics vis-à-vis of the European Union, giving some weight to her narrative in this matter. Or am I wrong?

Laura said:
First of all, consider the liberal left in the US (and elsewhere) as it was 45 years ago: a very different animal than it is today.

Consider also Russia 45 years ago: another very different animal than what it is today.

Consider that the FN as it was 45 years ago could also be very different from what it is today.

Are YOU the same person you were 45 years ago?

People and organizations and countries (and other entities) change; sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Ponerization can take place, and also purging and cleaning up can take place. Shifts in ideology based on the learning and experiences of those in charge can take place.

It IS highly suggestive that the MSM propaganda is against Le Pen and that ought to be taken into account as having some weight, though we can't always be sure of what it means.

From my point of view, as I stated it early in the US election thread, even if Trump turns out to be another Hitler, it at least gets things moving; this slow destruction of our psyche's with the torture of a thousand cuts cannot be borne. The Cs have pretty clearly stated that there will be a totalitarian regime imposed pretty much on the whole world and THEN things will change. And let's face it, people are simply NOT going to wake up unless and until they get miserable enough.

So, from my point of view, I say let's get the show on the road and let the chips fall where they may. If the MSM doesn't want Trump or Le Pen - or at least pretends they don't in order to manipulate those who are sick of the status quo to vote them in so they can, at last, impose their full spectrum dominance - so be it! That's a step toward waking up.

Completely agree with your statements Laura, thank you for pointing that out to us in this way.
 
l apprenti de forgeron said:
Pierre said:
Behind this inexorable collapse of our society, I can see one very real and destructive form of racism: the one that the psychopathic elite exerts on the rest of the population.
Great observation

So true here again, thanks Pierre, this is an argument we should not forget and use on Social Media and comments on the articles posted on Sott.

thorbiorn said:
One observation: I have been listening to Radio France Internationale from Paris at FM 89.0 MHz and noticed the coverage and reporting, even though I do not understand everything, is much more en favour of Macron. Voting in favour of Le Pen, when being a regular listener of this channel, would be a harder choice, or is it just because the station is located in Paris which appears to be Macron country, according to the map i found on _http://scd.rfi.fr/sites/filesrfi/imagecache/rfi_16x9_1024_578/sites/images.rfi.fr/files/aef_image/carte-resultats-afp_0.png attached below, in case the above site is changed. The map is small, but Paris is the yellow area in the upper left corner of France, surrounded by darker colour which is Marine Le Pen.

Technical detail about finding the radio station of Radio France International from Paris:
The 89.0 MHz is easily found through _http://radiomap.eu/fr/paris When you open the channel from "Radiomap.eu" it begins playing in _http://radiomap.eu/fr/play/rfi_monde There one hears mainly French politics and news. When you post this same link in another browser or window then "_http://radiomap.eu/fr/play/rfi_monde" leads to the same emission as "Direct Afrique" found on _http://www.rfi.fr/ In other words, the local FM 89.0 MHz station seems to be different from "Direct Afrique" even though the link looks the same.

Hereafter a larger map: pink is for Macron, dark blue is for Le Pen, orange is for Mélenchon and royal blue is for Fillon.

Candidat-arrive-en-tete-dans-chaque-departement_largeur_960.jpg

_https://www.lebonbon.fr/paris/news/carte-decouvre-les-candidats-arrives-en-tete-dans-ton-departement/
 
Very good article from Thierry Meyssan:
_http://www.voltairenet.org/article196096.html

The French scuttle their own ship

We are witnessing an historical reversal in France, where the ancient political spectrum is exploding into pieces as new fractures appear. Because of the intensive storm of media propaganda which has recently almost drowned the nation, the French can now perceive nothing more than the essential markers, and cling to red lines which no longer exist. However, the facts are clear, and certain evolutions are predictable.

After a very agitated electoral campaign, the French chose Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen for the second round of the Presidential election.

Already, almost all the losing candidates, with the exception of Jean-Luc Melenchon – and that’s no accident – have appealed to their followers to support Macron, who should then be easily elected.

The two major historical parties which have governed France since the beginning of the Fifth Republique - Les Republicains (ex-Gaullists) and the Parti Socialist (ex-Jaurèsians) - have been beaten. A newcomer, En Marche !, has made it to first place on the podium, facing the Front National.

Is there fascist candidate?

This is not the first time that this sort of cleavage has occurred in the history of France – on one hand, a partisan of an alliance with what seems for the moment to be the world’s greatest power (the United States), and on the other, a movement seeking national independence – on one hand, the totality of the ruling class, without notable exceptions, and on the other, a party cobbled together of various bits and pieces, composed mostly of proletarians, two thirds of whom come from the right wing and one third from the left.

Evidently, the next French President will be Mr. Macron – a man from the Banque Rothschild & Cie, now supported by the totality of the business leaders of the CAC40.

However, whether our prejudices like it or not, the unanimity of the power of money is the fundamental characteristic of fascist parties.

This unanimity of Grand Capital is always accompanied by a National unity which erases the differences. In order to become equal, we must become identical. This is what President Hollande began with the law « Marriage for all », in 2012-13. Presented as establishing equality between citizens, whatever their sexual orientation, it posited de facto that the needs of couples with children are the same as those of gay couples. And yet there were several other more intelligent solutions. The opposition to this law led to a number of very important demonstrations, but they unfortunately failed to provide any other proposition, and were sometimes mixed with homophobic slogans.

Identically, the attack against Charlie-Hebdo was celebrated to the chant of « I am Charlie ! », and those citizens who declared that they were « not Charlie » were prosecuted.

It is a shame that the French people do not react either against the unanimity of Grand Capital, nor against the injunctions to use the same judicial techniques and to favour the same slogans. On the contrary, they insist on considering the current Front National as « fascist », with no other argument than its ancient past.

Can a fascist candidate be resisted?

In the majority, the French think that Emmanuel Macron will be a President à la Sarkozy and à la Hollande, men who will pursue their political beliefs. They therefore expect to see their country increasingly decline. They accept this curse, thinking that in this way, they will evacuate the menace of the extreme right.

Many of them remember that at its creation, the Front National gathered together the losers of the Second World War and the losers of the social politics of the colonisation of Algeria. They focused on the figures of a few men who had collaborated with the Nazi occupier, without seeing that the Front National of today has absolutely nothing in common with those people. They persist in holding Second-Lieutenant Jean-Marie Le Pen (Marine’s father) responsible for the Algerian tragedy, and exonerating from their responsibilities the Socialist leaders of the time, particularly their dreadful Minister of the Interior, François Mitterrand.

No-one remembers that in 1940, it was a Fascist minister, General Charles De Gaulle, who refused the shameful armistice with Nazi Germany. This man, the official heir apparent of Marechal Philippe Petain (who was his daughter’s godfather), charged into the Resistance alone. Struggling against his education and his prejudices, he slowly gathered around himself, against the wishes of his ex-mentor, French people from all horizons to defend the Republic. He linked up with a left-wing personality, Jean Moulin, who, a few years earlier, had secretly embezzled money from the Minister of the Marine, and trafficked weapons with which to support the Spanish Republicans against the fascists.

No-one remembers that a colleague of De Gaulle, Robert Schuman, wrote his signature on the armisitice of shame, then, a few years later, founded the European Economic Community (currently the European Union) – a supra-national organisation based on the Nazi model of the « New European Order », against the Soviet Union and today against Russia.

The Obama-Clinton model

Emmanuel Macron has recieved the strong support of ex-US President Barack Obama, and has gathered a team for foreign policy composed of the main neo-conservative diplomats. He makes no secret of supporting the external politics of the US Democratic Party.

Barack Obama, although he presented his foreign policy with a rhetoric which was diametrically opposed to that of his predecessor, the Republican George W. Bush, in practice followed his lead in all points. The two men successively continued the same plan for the destruction of the societies of the Greater Middle East – a plan which has already caused more than 3 million deaths. Emmanuel Macron supports this policy, although we do not yet know whether he intends to justify it by speaking of « democratisation » or « spontaneous revolution ».

If Hillary Clinton was beaten during the US election, Emmanuel Macron had to be elected in France.

Nothing proves that Marine Le Pen will be capable of playing the rôle of Charles De Gaulle, but three things are certain :
- Just as in 1940, the British, choking back their disgust, welcomed De Gaulle to London, today Russia could support Le Pen.
- Just as in 1939, only a few Communists braved the orders of their party and joined the Resistance, there will only be a few of Jean-Luc Mélenchon’s partisans who will take that step. But as from the Nazi attack on the URSS, it was the whole Communist party who supported De Gaulle and formed the majority of the Resistance. There is no doubt that in the years to come, Mélenchon will fight side by side with Le Pen.
- Emmanuel Macron will never understand people who resist the domination of their homeland. So he will not understand any better the people of the Greater Middle East who struggle for real independence alonside Hezbollah, the Syrian Arab Republic and the Islamic Republic of Iran.
 
thorbiorn said:
One observation: I have been listening to Radio France Internationale from Paris at FM 89.0 MHz and noticed the coverage and reporting, even though I do not understand everything, is much more en favour of Macron. Voting in favour of Le Pen, when being a regular listener of this channel, would be a harder choice...

The entire establishment is against her. Every media talking head, every editorial, every celebrity, every authority figure; they are all saying (and have been, for years and years) that Le Pen is a witch who absolutely cannot be allowed to become president. It's the same as what we saw with respect to Trump in the US. Worse, in fact; he at least had Fox News and a few newspapers on his side.
 
MK Scarlett said:
Hereafter a larger map: pink is for Macron, dark blue is for Le Pen, orange is for Mélenchon and royal blue is for Fillon.

Candidat-arrive-en-tete-dans-chaque-departement_largeur_960.jpg

_https://www.lebonbon.fr/paris/news/carte-decouvre-les-candidats-arrives-en-tete-dans-ton-departement/
It appears as if many of the old strongholds of the cathars voted for Le Pen. Coincidence or is there a more sovereigntist spirit among people in that region?
 
Here is a more detailed map of the first round. But keep in mind that it only reflects the official results which are, I think, quite far from the real ones.
 

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MK Scarlett said:
That's indeed a good move. I also thought on yesterday evening, that she could have done another one weeks ago: resign as a Member of European Parliament. She might do so before the second round, I cannot exclude it. But I do really think that it would have been a very smart move going to the same way than her politics vis-à-vis of the European Union, giving some weight to her narrative in this matter. Or am I wrong?

Her immunity would be removed and they would immediately fall on her as they already try and has they did with Fillon, arguing fabricated reasons if needed. You don't throw your shield in the middle of the battle. :)
 
Aeneas said:
MK Scarlett said:
Hereafter a larger map: pink is for Macron, dark blue is for Le Pen, orange is for Mélenchon and royal blue is for Fillon.

Candidat-arrive-en-tete-dans-chaque-departement_largeur_960.jpg

_https://www.lebonbon.fr/paris/news/carte-decouvre-les-candidats-arrives-en-tete-dans-ton-departement/
It appears as if many of the old strongholds of the cathars voted for Le Pen. Coincidence or is there a more sovereigntist spirit among people in that region?

The East/West division is interesting.
Another interesting element (already mentioned here): The Alsace/Lorraine region (North-Eastern France) traditionally votes for the FN. As it happens, 17 000 Alsacian voters weren't allowed to vote last Sunday when they turned up: they had been struck off from the list of voters without them being aware of it. Some were struck off due to a change of address. The problem is that they never received the notifications informing them they had been struck off because those notifications were sent to their previous address. Others were struck off due to some "administrative" mistake: for ie, the voter cards of several married women inexplicably mentioned their maiden name instead of their married name, which makes their cards invalid. (see here: __https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/societe/strasbourg-des-electeurs-apprennent-au-bureau-de-vote-qu-ils-sont-radies-1492964452)
What unfortunate "mistakes"!
 
Pierre said:
Here is a more detailed map of the first round. But keep in mind that it only reflects the official results which are, I think, quite far from the real ones.
Thank you for the map, the details speak clearer than gross simplifications. And regarding "the real ones", well after watching the following video about what apparently can happen in some places in France without officials feeling a need to act, I would not be surprised if gross violations did occur and will occur:
Ritual Abuse in France - A German Documentary (English Subtitles) _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmC4pDlktB4
 
Hello,
Just watched this video/interview from E. Chouard which is very interesting to listen in the actual context in France but also regarding the topics discussed here in this thread :
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mC_cCJXRo

It's in french of course, but i tested and the automatic sub-titles + automatic traduction in english seems quite ... ok, quite enough to understand almost all the argumentation of Chouard. I even think that some of the args he explains and they way he present them could be useful for Joe if he's willing (and have time) to write further articles on the subject. Great speech again from Mr Chouard who is definitively a good, clever and smart guy !
 
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