Graham Hancock

[Buddy]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

[quote author=Rx]
Of course I would love to hear from any one else who has another interpretation since it really could have been plain old manipulation of another sort.[/quote]

Hi Rx. I know next to nothing about Shamanic stuff from personal experience. Judging by the way you recounted the events though, I agree with Breton when he said:

[quote author=Breton]
It does seem to me that you figured out the main issue, at least in its most important aspect: you identified a conduit of attack. And so far, it appears to me, you are trying to keep a level head about everything. So for whatever it is worth, I am not particularly worried about your situation.[/quote]


[quote author=Rx]
Asking the question again in a different way, is it possible that the whole crying episode was some sort of psychic attack? I would really like to not give this psychic guy credit for anything[/quote]

I don't know if the crying episode was an 'attack' but you did indicate it was cathartic, so I tend to think it was beneficial for you emotionally. You don't have to give the psychic guy credit for anything. He was just 'doing his job', as it were...at least part of the lesson was for you, it seems, and you came through it a bit wiser and maybe stronger, osit. So credit yourself or the Universe or whatever.

As anart said, I'm also glad you came to the conclusions you did because it seems you barely side-stepped being reeled into a bad situation. :)

 

[Breton]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Here are some thoughts that I had about this crying episode that came to mind that you might want to just consider, for what it is worth.

You know when you described your crying episode, what immediately came to my mind was all the experiences of emotional release people have been reporting after they started the EE breathing program. Some have described this during the EE, or in between, sometimes spontaneously. In September, after having done the EE breathing program about 14 times over the past weeks, I ONCE had an uncontrollable crying fit. In that case I was alone and was pondering the huge disappointment that was my marriage, and I was inventing a parable or analogy that I might use to describe it to my daughter one day in the future when she is older. Then suddenly, in the midst of this thinking, all the disappointment came out in uncontrollable, anguished, sobbing! It has not happened since though.

What we are probably experiencing is some kind of emotional release or cathartic cleansing, brought on by internal changes.

So, although this is speculation on my part, but maybe you can also consider that although at the time you were not doing the EE breathing program nevertheless these experiences triggered some necessary emotional cleansing.

It was not about that other person: it was about you.

I don't know if the crying episode was an 'attack' but you did indicate it was cathartic, so I tend to think it was beneficial for you emotionally. You don't have to give the psychic guy credit for anything.

In other words, just like a virus attacking a host that causes the host to raise its defences, the crying episode might have been triggered by the attacks. Just as you don't give credit to the virus for doing good for you don't give him any credit either. Both are attackers for their own purpose.

However, attacks, and challenges and misfortunes: all of these are part of our lessons and if we learn something from them, they are kind of "precious" experiences, are they not? Although it is pretty natural that we wish we could learn our lessons without the misfortunes being overly painful, scary, or stressful if at all possible!

_Breton_

 

[RGG]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Thanks for the response guys! I know i asked for input and then I didn't respond to it for weeks . I took some time to think about what everyone said and then all of a sudden family life went into high gear and I just managed to surface a few days ago. I meant no disrespect whatsoever.

Hi Rx, since you seem to be looking for input, I'll just chime in that it seems to me like this was simply a case of you being manipulated because you did not question your own impressions and 'feelings'. In short, you took your dreams and impressions as truth and then followed them, and were manipulated by a psychic, because you were open to feeling special, to 'knowing things' - instead of acting under the premise that any synchronicity is likely a trap, if not a signal to watch out. Dreams are one of the most effective forms of disinformation via 4D STS - especially when we so willingly follow them and create complicated back stories and theories that make our own manipulation very, very easy.

Until you got to the end of your post, I was thinking that you hadn't read the Wave, since Laura goes to such lengths to make is SO clear that it is a jungle out there and wishful thinking will get you every time.

I'm really glad you were able to come to the conclusions you reached on this - though I think it might be worthwhile to consider that the entire event was manipulated and that it was not at all only slightly 'twisted' - in short, you followed your own wishful thinking into a dangerous situation, due to a lack of willingness to question your own impressions - following them along the garden path into the hands of a predator. At the end of the day, it very well may be that all your 'strong feelings' and 'impressions' and 'knowing' were nothing more than illusion and wishful thinking that almost got you into a very bad situation. fwiw.

Exactly. That is exactly what I thought shortly after i became a member of this forum and spent most of those first months reading appropriately related threads on attack, psychopathy etc. But then the whole EE program was introduced and as I followed it, practiced it and read the FAQs for EE, i kept having this nagging feeling that I missed something significant in those two previously mentioned events that I initially though of as part of the attack.

Here are some thoughts that I had about this crying episode that came to mind that you might want to just consider, for what it is worth.

You know when you described your crying episode, what immediately came to my mind was all the experiences of emotional release people have been reporting after they started the EE breathing program. Some have described this during the EE, or in between, sometimes spontaneously. In September, after having done the EE breathing program about 14 times over the past weeks, I ONCE had an uncontrollable crying fit. In that case I was alone and was pondering the huge disappointment that was my marriage, and I was inventing a parable or analogy that I might use to describe it to my daughter one day in the future when she is older. Then suddenly, in the midst of this thinking, all the disappointment came out in uncontrollable, anguished, sobbing! It has not happened since though.

What we are probably experiencing is some kind of emotional release or cathartic cleansing, brought on by internal changes.

So, although this is speculation on my part, but maybe you can also consider that although at the time you were not doing the EE breathing program nevertheless these experiences triggered some necessary emotional cleansing.

It was not about that other person: it was about you.

I don't know if the crying episode was an 'attack' but you did indicate it was cathartic, so I tend to think it was beneficial for you emotionally. You don't have to give the psychic guy credit for anything.

In other words, just like a virus attacking a host that causes the host to raise its defences, the crying episode might have been triggered by the attacks. Just as you don't give credit to the virus for doing good for you don't give him any credit either. Both are attackers for their own purpose.

However, attacks, and challenges and misfortunes: all of these are part of our lessons and if we learn something from them, they are kind of "precious" experiences, are they not? Although it is pretty natural that we wish we could learn our lessons without the misfortunes being overly painful, scary, or stressful if at all possible!

_Breton_

Yes, the more i think about it and how it felt, the more I think that is exactly what it was. It was very cathartic and i would describe it as an enormous emotional release. And in retrospect, it was soon after that I really remember having control of my emotions. Describing this is tricky but I would say that when I'm confronted with any fear inducing situation (my sons recent broken arm and surgery come to mind) I can keep my emotional response checked within myself and think clearly through the situation. So there also seems to be a benefit from that emotional episode as well.
I guess no matter what happened I emerged an improved person with much greater control over myself and of course much more aware.

Thank you for the input in sorting this out.

Rx

 

[aragorn]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Thank you Rx for sharing your interesting story! A little over a year ago I experienced sort of a battle in form of reoccurring OBE:s, that lasted ca one month. As I just read that old thread, it was interesting to note that it all started after I started doing bioenergetic breathing exercises. Of course it is possible that this had nothing to do with. If you are interested you can read about my experience HERE.

 

[nate]

Magic.

How does magic work?
Is there any good book on that topic? im talking about egyptian magic or greek.

 

[Vulcan59]

Re: Magic.

Hi Nathaniel,

Arthur C. Clarke reportedly stated the following, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" but coming back to your question, why do you want to read about "egyptian magic or greek" and what do you intend to do with it?

 

[nate]

Re: Magic.

Hi Nathaniel,

Arthur C. Clarke reportedly stated the following, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" but coming back to your question, why do you want to read about "egyptian magic or greek" and what do you intend to do with it?

well i like to read about magic. especially the rituals of the pyramid texts and i read about the gnostics too and those mystery schools. i indend to use the knowledge i get out of it. :)

 

[nate]

Re: Magic.

but i was wondering if you would have to know physics to understand magic or alchemy.

 

[mkrnhr]

Re: Magic.

but i was wondering if you would have to know physics to understand magic or alchemy.

Some physical laws may apply to the field of magic, for example the energy conservation law. If you make a 4D STS entity agree to do some job for you (which is IMHO what magic is), in return it takes something from you (energy, soul, whatever) as a payment and because things always tend to be in equilibrium. The other basic principle is action and reaction: everytime one interferes with somebody else's freewill, in return something will interfer with his own freewill (and not for the good as we can imagine), because he gives implicitly the permition to that. In a word, if one has to give his energy and wants his soul to be smashed down, the most straightforward way is to do magic.

Now to return into the first question, I can conceive the ancient Egyptian priests performing magic due to the morbidity of their so-called civilisation. Power-based civilisation, STS-based can be imagined to perform magic. However, according to the little we know about the gnostics, what kind of magic could they have practiced? Or maybe i just misunderstand the meaning of magic in this case.

Edit : The other point is that you seem to mix different concepts. Alchemy is not magic.

 

[Vulcan59]

Re: Magic.

Hi Nathaniel,

So for starters you might want to know more about Egypt and their purported magic. And as mkrnhr point out, alchemy is not magic although many people think it is. As for the pyramid text, I'll quote what Laura said about Egypt which summarises the whole Egypt shtick very well;

The open-minded thinker ought to really consider the purported mysteries of Egypt in terms of the fact that they were so ignorant that they devoted a huge amount of energy to their "cult of the dead." The whole Egyptian shtick is focused around preserving dead flesh for future or otherworldly reanimation. The very fact that there are so many of these dead bodies for Egyptologists to dig up is the clearest evidence that the Egyptian beliefs were nonsense.

My emphasis.

 

[nate]

Re: Magic.

but i was wondering if you would have to know physics to understand magic or alchemy.

Some physical laws may apply to the field of magic, for example the energy conservation law. If you make a 4D STS entity agree to do some job for you (which is IMHO what magic is), in return it takes something from you (energy, soul, whatever) as a payment and because things always tend to be in equilibrium. The other basic principle is action and reaction: everytime one interferes with somebody else's freewill, in return something will interfer with his own freewill (and not for the good as we can imagine), because he gives implicitly the permition to that. In a word, if one has to give his energy and wants his soul to be smashed down, the most straightforward way is to do magic.

Now to return into the first question, I can conceive the ancient Egyptian priests performing magic due to the morbidity of their so-called civilisation. Power-based civilisation, STS-based can be imagined to perform magic. However, according to the little we know about the gnostics, what kind of magic could they have practiced? Or maybe i just misunderstand the meaning of magic in this case.

Edit : The other point is that you seem to mix different concepts. Alchemy is not magic.

i see your point. even in the bible they perform rituals and sacrifices which was most likely for the 4d sts. But i was thinking could there be some secret kind of rituals that doesnt feed the sts but calls on the higher densities? another thing i always wondered about is how did Jesus reach enlightenment? was it throu achemy, magic or some other way? what i got out of reading about the gnostics was that he perform secret ritual baptism. Could have some egyptian scribes or priest have known the acutual truth about the lower gods and higher gods and had secret knowledge.

 

[anart]

Re: Magic.

i see your point. even in the bible they perform rituals and sacrifices which was most likely for the 4d sts. But i was thinking could there be some secret kind of rituals that doesnt feed the sts but calls on the higher densities?

Nope. Ritual drains energy directly to 4D STS. Ritual, by its nature, is limiting, not Creative. Have you finished reading the Wave Series yet? This is all covered there.

another thing i always wondered about is how did Jesus reach enlightenment? was it throu achemy, magic or some other way? what i got out of reading about the gnostics was that he perform secret ritual baptism. Could have some egyptian scribes or priest have known the acutual truth about the lower gods and higher gods and had secret knowledge.

Nonsense. Please just take the time to read the Wave in its entirety. Then, if you can read Secret History of the World by Laura Knight-Jadczyk - you'll be up to speed and all this will make much more sense! :)

 

[Horus_Risen]

Re: Magic.

How does magic work?
Is there any good book on that topic? im talking about egyptian magic or greek.

For a period of about 5 or 6 years, I am sad to say, I was involved in learning about and practicing "magick." It started with Wicca and basic garden variety "witchcraft" and later I moved onto ceremonial magick or "high magick." I talked about this period in my "newbie" post from February if you want to check it out. http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=16276.0. Laura and others minced no words about some of the ideas of magick I formerly espoused. :D I'm certainly glad they did. Reading Laura's work and the information here on the forum was essentially the final nail in magick's coffin for me. When I say that, I mean that viewing magick in a positive light and practicing any sort of ritual was out of the question for me. Learning about magick, its history, its implications, and how it theoretically works could certainly work for your benefit. But, having been there, I would strongly advise against any practice. It is dangerous and self-serving, no matter what "good" you seek to impose on the world.

Now having said that, I can give you my theoretical view of how magick works. The mechanism of magick, as I understand it, is basically the same; Hebrew, Greek, Roman, Egyptian, African, Haitian, Scandinavian etc. etc. Depending upon which cultural base one is working from (with the exception of Chaos magick, which is a mish-mash) the pantheon of deities is different, the symbolism is different, but the essence remains the same. An old book I used to have stated the definition of magick as being " the science and art of causing a change in reality to occur in conformity with the will." "Will" is the operative word here. There is always a desired outcome or effect. It is the function of the magickal working (ritual) to focus the will and mind of the "magician" into a single point of extreme focus on what is desired. (This is why the dagger or sword is a common magickal symbol) This is why meditation and Hatha yoga practice is stressed among those seeking to become ceremonial magicians. Say you want to invoke Apollo to improve your skills in the arts. You find out what planet corresponds to Apollo, what color, what scent, what Moon phase, what incantation, the properties of Apollo etc. etc. You surround yourself with things that keep the mind constantly focused on Apollo. Magick is mostly a psychological phenomenon.

Now what about when the desire is more concrete? Say you do a ritual to get some money. Later, you're walking down the street and you find a $20 bill. Was it mere coincidence? Was it just that having focused your mind on the money made you pay more attention to things lying around in the street? What if you did the same ritual and your uncle died shortly thereafter and left you an inheritance? Did you just perform black magick and kill someone? Maybe. Did "someone" intervene for you? Maybe.

Nathaniel, you mention physics. I'm no physicist, but I have read up on basic quantum experiments like the double-slit experiment. It seems to indicate to me that human perception, awareness, consciousness, and belief can interact directly with sub-atomic particles (and I think reality in general). An electron can appear to be a wave or a particle depending on whether or not anyone is observing. What does the mind expect it to be? Perhaps this is an indication that "magick" merely programs the mind to expect certain outcomes and therefore causes a quantum "butterfly effect" that ultimately creates the reality that is expected for the observer/magick practitioner.

I will say that in my unholy time practicing magick, I was able to convince myself that this phenomenon was real. But I didn't have enough information to see all the possibilities. Given the nature of our controlled reality, who is to say that some 4D STS agent didn't make my "wishes" come true to convince me that what I was doing was "working," and thereby string me along to my doom?

In any case, trying to control your reality, your experience directly, is like flipping the bird at nature, the universe, God, your Higher Self, etc. Practicing magick is like saying that you, a tiny little human, know what the greatest good is for yourself and the world, disregarding your own Free Will and the Will of others. It's bad news for everyone involved, but of course, people are free to do what they like. I certainly learned my lesson. I hope that was useful for you in some way. :)

 

[herondancer]

Re: Magic.

Thanks, Desiderata. There is nothing like personal experience to make a point.

Nathaniel, is there something going on in your life that you think only magic will help you change? Or is it just something you think would be fun, or cool to do? Legend is filled with stories of those that over-stepped their place in the cosmos before they were ready. You would do well to pay attention. Growth comes to those who work ("Art thou willing to suffer [work] to learn?"). The task currently set before you is to read the Wave. Every question you've posed on various threads are answered there. Are you willing to learn?

We look forward to hearing about what you discover in your reading.

Herondancer

 

[Nienna]

Re: Magic.

Thanks, Desiderata. There is nothing like personal experience to make a point.

Nathaniel, is there something going on in your life that you think only magic will help you change? Or is it just something you think would be fun, or cool to do? Legend is filled with stories of those that over-stepped their place in the cosmos before they were ready. You would do well to pay attention. Growth comes to those who work ("Art thou willing to suffer [work] to learn?"). The task currently set before you is to read the Wave. Every question you've posed on various threads are answered there. Are you willing to learn?

We look forward to hearing about what you discover in your reading.

Herondancer

Not only what Herondancer has stated above, but maybe looking inside of yourself to see just why it is that magic is so important to you.

From what I have read on magic, those who are into it are mostly into for reasons of self-importance, self-gratification and self-aggrandizement. (No offense intended, Desiderata :)) These are all highly STS-oriented. Many are also looking for shortcuts to the Work that would help them to connect to their higher consciousness. There are no shortcuts.

As Herondancer said, those who practice magic tend to get burned in the end. Some of them quite considerably so.

I agree with anart and know that you can find all of the answers to the questions you have been asking in various threads if you would just do as suggested and read the Wave Series and The Secret History of the World.