Graham Hancock

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

EGVG said:
Yes, I did search on Google, I found that her books are not anywhere to be easily obtain. If she was abducted for getting too close to the Truth them maybe she was on to something with her ketamine experiences.

Notice what the Cs said:

Q: (L) What happened to Marcia Moore who was working on drug
enhanced outer space contact via altered consciousness?
A: Permanent abduction victim by Lizards.
Q: (L) Why?
A: Too close to truth.
Q: (L) Well, are we close to the truth too?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Will we be permanently abducted by the Lizards?
A: Knowledge protects.
Q: (L) But didn't she have a lot of knowledge too?
A: Scrambled with drugs.

Now, considering the FACTS of the case, that she went out on Ketamine, that gives an all new perspective to this. What is, in fact, a "permanent abduction by Lizards" other than being induced to do that which destroys the self? Haven't we learned enough about the possibilities for 4D influence of our minds, directly or indirectly, to understand that her experiments with Ketamine were probably "engineered" for the very purpose of destroying her?

Notice the Cs comment about knowledge, also... that her knowledge was "scrambled by drugs." That should be a huge warning to anyone who seeks "enlightenment" via drugs.

Regarding Lilly and his sensory deprivation experiments, here is something related that might be a clue:

Q: (L) I received an article from Piers about experiments by
a fellow named Persinger who has been trying to duplicate
the "abduction" experience by subjecting people to EM
fields in a sensory deprivation chamber. I would like
comments on that, and second...
A: Nonsense, some have closed mind inspired by fear.
Q: (L) My concern is that if he is doing this to people, and
we have talked about electromagnetic energy blowing holes
in the dimensional boundaries, my concern is that this
experimentation could be detrimental to the persons being
experimented on; is this a possibility?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) What could be the results of subjecting someone to
these electromagnetic fields?
A: Cessation of body.
Q: (L) In other words, it could kill them?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Could it also open doors between dimensions and allow
other things to enter in?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Could they be subjected to spirit or demonic
possession by this method?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Could they also be subjected to further programming by
aliens through this method?
A: Yes.

I think that there are two things that have kept us on the narrow track and out of harm's way: the Cs and a network of stable, rational individuals. Without that, any sort of experimentation along this line is a recipe for disaster.
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Laura said:
EGVG said:
Yes, I did search on Google, I found that her books are not anywhere to be easily obtain. If she was abducted for getting too close to the Truth them maybe she was on to something with her ketamine experiences.

Notice what the Cs said:

Q: (L) What happened to Marcia Moore who was working on drug
enhanced outer space contact via altered consciousness?
A: Permanent abduction victim by Lizards.
Q: (L) Why?
A: Too close to truth.
Q: (L) Well, are we close to the truth too?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Will we be permanently abducted by the Lizards?
A: Knowledge protects.
Q: (L) But didn't she have a lot of knowledge too?
A: Scrambled with drugs.

Now, considering the FACTS of the case, that she went out on Ketamine, that gives an all new perspective to this. What is, in fact, a "permanent abduction by Lizards" other than being induced to do that which destroys the self? Haven't we learned enough about the possibilities for 4D influence of our minds, directly or indirectly, to understand that her experiments with Ketamine were probably "engineered" for the very purpose of destroying her?

Notice the Cs comment about knowledge, also... that her knowledge was "scrambled by drugs." That should be a huge warning to anyone who seeks "enlightenment" via drugs.

Regarding Lilly and his sensory deprivation experiments, here is something related that might be a clue:

Q: (L) I received an article from Piers about experiments by
a fellow named Persinger who has been trying to duplicate
the "abduction" experience by subjecting people to EM
fields in a sensory deprivation chamber. I would like
comments on that, and second...
A: Nonsense, some have closed mind inspired by fear.
Q: (L) My concern is that if he is doing this to people, and
we have talked about electromagnetic energy blowing holes
in the dimensional boundaries, my concern is that this
experimentation could be detrimental to the persons being
experimented on; is this a possibility?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) What could be the results of subjecting someone to
these electromagnetic fields?
A: Cessation of body.
Q: (L) In other words, it could kill them?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Could it also open doors between dimensions and allow
other things to enter in?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Could they be subjected to spirit or demonic
possession by this method?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Could they also be subjected to further programming by
aliens through this method?
A: Yes.

I think that there are two things that have kept us on the narrow track and out of harm's way: the Cs and a network of stable, rational individuals. Without that, any sort of experimentation along this line is a recipe for disaster.

re:
I think that there are two things that have kept us on the narrow track and out of harm's way: the Cs and a network of stable, rational individuals. Without that, any sort of experimentation along this line is a recipe for disaster.
---

In Indonesian/Javanese cutlure where they still have a culture of spirit communication they are insistent that getting drugged or drunk opens the door to entities which can take pernament residence undetected. Some believe that bars are full of spirits awating a drunk body to inhabit. Entities range from lost confused type, to malevolant misleading type or spirits of ex addicts eg a dead drunk looking for a body to re-experience alcohol through which will continually push the inhabitee towards getting drunk.
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Stevie Argyll said:
In Indonesian/Javanese cutlure where they still have a culture of spirit communication they are insistent that getting drugged or drunk opens the door to entities which can take pernament residence undetected. Some believe that bars are full of spirits awating a drunk body to inhabit. Entities range from lost confused type, to malevolant misleading type or spirits of ex addicts eg a dead drunk looking for a body to re-experience alcohol through which will continually push the inhabitee towards getting drunk.

It's interesting to note the bifurcation of drug-induced shamanism vs no-drugs shamanism and the differences in the cultures. Here's a bit from Secret History that relates from a different angle:

SH said:
Mircea Eliade writes:

Mircea Eliade said:
Recent researches have clearly brought out the “shamanic” elements in the religion of the Paleolithic hunters. Horst Kierchner has interpreted the celebrated relief at Lascaux as a representation of a shamanic trance.[…]

Finally, Karl J. Narr has reconsidered the problem of the “origin” and chronology of shamanism in his important study. He brings out the influence of notions of fertility (Venus statuettes) on the religious beliefs of the prehistoric North Asian hunters; but this influence did not disrupt the Paleolithic tradition.[…] it is in this “Vorstellungswelt” that the roots of the bear ceremonialism of Asia and North America lie. Soon afterward, probably about 25,000 BC, Europe offers evidence for the earliest forms of shamanism (Lascaux) with the plastic representations of the bird, the tutelary spirit, and ecstasy. […]

What appears to be certain is the antiquity of “shamanic” rituals and symbols. It remains to be determined whether these documents brought to light by prehistoric discoveries represent the first expressions of a shamanism in statu nascendi or are merely the earliest documents today available for an earlier religious complex, which, however, did not find “plastic” manifestations (drawings, ritual objects, etc) before the period of Lascaux.

In accounting for the formation of the shamanic complex in Central and North Asia, we must keep in mind the two essential elements of the problem: on the one hand, the ecstatic experience as such, as a primary phenomenon; on the other, the historic-religious milieu into which this ecstatic experience was destined to be incorporated and the ideology that, in the last analysis, was to validate it. […]

Everywhere in those lands, and from the earliest times, we find documents for the existence of a Supreme Being of celestial structure, who also corresponds morphologically to all the other Supreme Beings of the archaic religions. The symbolism of ascent, with all the rites and myths dependent on it, must be connected with celestial Supreme Beings; […] This symbolism of ascent and “height” retains its value even after the “withdrawal” of the celestial Supreme Being — for, as is well known, Supreme Beings gradually lose their active place in the cult, giving way to religious forms that are more “dynamic” and “familiar” (the gods of storm and fertility, demiurges, the souls of the dead, the Great Goddesses, etc.) […]

The reduction or even the total loss in religious currency of Uranian Supreme Beings is sometimes indicated in myths concerning a primordial and paradisal time when communications between heaven and earth were easy and accessible to everyone; as the result of some happening, these communications were broken off and the Supreme Beings withdrew to the highest sky.[…]

The disappearance of the cult of the celestial Supreme Being did not nullify the symbolism of ascent with all its implication. […]

The shamanic ecstasy could be considered a reactualization of the mythical illud tempus when men could communicate in concreto with the sky.

It is indubitable that the celestial ascent of the shaman is a survival, profoundly modified and sometimes degenerate, of this archaic religious ideology centered on faith in a celestial Supreme Being and belief in concrete communications between heaven and earth. […]

The myths refer to more intimate relations between the Supreme Beings and shamans; in particular, they tell of a First Shaman, sent to earth by the Supreme Being or his surrogate to defend human beings against diseases and evil spirits.

It was in the context of the “withdrawal” of the “Celestial Being” that the meaning of the shaman’s ecstatic experience changed. Formerly, the activity was focused on communing with the god and obtaining benefits for the tribe. The shift of the function of the shaman associated with the withdrawal of the benevolent god/goddess was to “battling with evil spirits and disease”. This is a sharp reminder of the work of Jesus, healing the sick and casting out demons - the shamanic exemplar “after the Fall”.

There was, it seems, another consequence of this “shift”. Increasingly, the descents into the “underworld” and the relations with “spirits” led to their “embodiment” or in the shaman’s being “possessed” by “spirits”. What is clear is that these were innovations, most of them recent. What is particularly striking in the research of the historiographers of myth, legend, shamanism, etc, is the discovery of the “influences from the south, which appeared quite early and which altered both cosmology and the mythology and techniques of ecstasy”. Among these southern influences were the contribution of Buddhism and Lamaism, added to the Iranian and, in the last analysis, Mesopotamian influences that preceded them.

Eliade writes:

Mircea Eliade said:
The initiatory schema of the shaman’s ritual death and resurrection is likewise an innovation, but one that goes back to much earlier times; in any case, it cannot be ascribed to influences from the ancient Near East. But the innovations introduced by the ancestor cult particularly affected the structure of this initiatory schema. The very concept of mystical death was altered by the many and various religious changes effected by lunar mythologies, the cult of the dead, and the elaboration of magical ideologies.

Hence we must conceive of Asiatic shamanism as an archaic technique of ecstasy whose original underlying ideology — belief in a celestial Supreme Being with whom it was possible to have direct relations by ascending into the sky — was constantly being transformed by an ongoing series of exotic contributions culminating in the invasion of Buddhism. […]

The phenomenology of the trance underwent many changes and corruptions, due in large part to confusion as to the precise nature of ecstasy. Yet all these innovations and corruptions did not succeed in eliminating the possibility of the true shamanic ecstasy.

More than once we have discerned in the shamanic experience a “nostalgia for paradise” that suggests one of the oldest types of Christian mystical experience. As for the “inner light”, which plays a part of the first importance in Indian mysticism and metaphysics as well as in Christian mystical theology, it is already documented in shamanism.

What seems to be most important about Central Asian shamanism in the history of mysticism is the role the shaman plays in the defense of the psychic integrity of the community. Shamans are pre-eminently the anti-demonic champions; they combat not only demons and disease, but also the black magicians. The shaman is the tireless slayer of demons and dragons. {...}

The Siberian shamans tell that in former ages all men had access to the gods, whereas now, only shamans have it and that Shamanism itself has been degraded. Shamanism presents itself as the remnant of an Ancient Wisdom teaching which once flourished across the Northern Hemisphere. The main feature of the Shaman’s universe is the cosmic center, an axis connecting earth with both heaven and hell. It is often represented as a tree, a ladder, or a pole. The shaman can utilize this tree to travel upward to commune with the gods, or downward to battle demons. Numbers are important: there are a fixed number of steps, or celestial stages. The cosmic tree can also be represented as a mountain with seven stories. {...}

It is clear that shamanism, as it is known, has declined from its original unified and coherent system. One reason for thinking so is that, while there are many local terms for a male shaman, there is only one for a female shaman. Shamanism, it seems, was formerly a woman’s activity. In one Tartar dialect, utygan, the word for a woman-shaman, also means “bear”. {...}

The “ecstatic experience” is the primary phenomenon of Shamanism, and it is this ecstasy that can be seen as the act of merging with the celestial beings. Merging results in Forced Oscillation that changes Frequency. {...}

Mircea Eliade said:
We have observed the striking resemblance between the other world ideas of the Caucasians and of the Iranians. For one thing, the Cinvat bridge plays an essential role in Iranian funerary mythology; crossing it largely determines the destiny of the soul; and the crossing is a difficult ordeal, equivalent in structure, to initiatory ordeals. […]

The Cinvat bridge is at the “Center”, at the “middle of the world” and “the height of a hundred men”. […] The bridge connects earth and heaven at the “Center”. Under the Cinvat bridge is the pit of hell.

Here we find a “classic” cosmological schema of the three cosmic regions connected by a central axis (pillar, tree, bridge, etc.) The shamans travel freely among the three zones; the dead must cross a bridge on their journey to the beyond. […] The important feature of the Iranian tradition is (at least as it survived after Zarathustra’s reform) is that, at the crossing of the bridge, there is a sort of struggle between the demons, who try to cast the soul down to hell, and the tutelary spirits who resist them.

The Gathas make three references to this crossing of the Cinvat bridge. In the first two passages Zarathustra, according to H.S. Nyberg’s interpretation, refers to himself as a psychopomp. Those who have been united to him in ecstasy will cross the bridge with ease. […]

The bridge, then, is not only the way for the dead; it is the road of ecstatics. […] The Gathic term maga is proof that Zarathustra and his disciples induced an ecstatic experience by ritual songs intoned in chorus in a closed, consecrated space. In this sacred space (maga) communication between heaven and earth became possible. […] The sacred space became a “Center”.[…]

Shamanic ecstasy induced by hemp smoke was known in ancient Iran. […] In the Videvdat hemp is demonized. This seems to us to prove complete hostility to shamanic intoxication. […] The imagery of the Central Asian shamans would seem to have undergone the influence of Oriental, and principally Iranian, ideas. But this does not mean that the shamanic descent to the underworld derives from an exotic influence. The Oriental contribution only amplified and added color to the dramatic scenarios of punishments; it was the narratives of ecstatic journeys to the underworld that were enriched under Oriental influences; the ecstasy long preceded them. [….]

We … have found the technique of ecstasy in archaic cultures where it is impossible to suspect any influence from the ancient East. […]

The magico-religious value of intoxication for achieving ecstasy is of Iranian origin. […]

Concerning the original shamanic experience … narcotics are only a vulgar substitute for “pure” trance.

The use of intoxicants is a recent innovation and points to a decadence in shamanic technique. Narcotic intoxication is called on to provide an imitation of a state that the shaman is no longer capable of attaining otherwise. Decadence or vulgarization of a mystical technique - in ancient and modern India, and indeed all through the East, we constantly find this strange mixture of “difficult ways” and “easy ways” of realizing mystical ecstasy or some other decisive experience. {...}

The idea that there was a time when man was directly in contact with the Celestial Beings is at the root of the myths of the Golden Age that have been redacted to the Grail stories of the 11th and 12th centuries. During this paradisiacal time, it is suggested that communications between heaven and earth were easy and accessible to everyone. Myths tell us of a time when the “gods withdrew” from mankind. As a result of some “happening”, i.e. “The Fall”, the communications were broken off and the Celestial Beings withdrew to the highest heavens.

But, the myths also tell us that there were still those certain people who were able to “ascend” and commune with the gods on the behalf of their tribe or family. Through them, contact was maintained with the “guiding spirits” of the group. The beliefs and practices of the present day shamans are a survival of a profoundly modified and even corrupted and degenerated remnant of this archaic technology of concrete communications between heaven and earth such as the Cassiopaean Transmissions.
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Seems I owe an apology to EGVG, I was totally unaware of this bit of CS transcript and Marcia Moore ever being mentioned there. Therefore I answered thinking that he is insisting on these premises out of his own conviction, now his persistence makes more sense.
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

anart said:
My vet mentioned the same thing. He said many dogs and cats are 'never the same' after having ketamine used on them. He said it is linked to the trauma of being immobile due to the ketamine, but still being able to feel the pain of the incisions, etc. I could be mistaken on that, though, so a clearer explanation would be interesting.
I dont think the animals feel pain if anesthetized with ketamine properly, i.e with other substances used simultaneously. Usually we have a gradient for depth of anesthesia - measuring certain reflexes - and we never start the first incision until the animal is at appropriate level of anesthesia.
Of course unlike medical surgeons in majority of the cases we have to be everything - general practitioners, surgeons, anesthesiologists, and this is not a good thing because we can never monitor our patients the way surgical patients are monitored in human medicine. IMO this can leave a lot of space for error, especially in less experienced vets.

Maybe a little bit more insight into workings of ketamine in the body will give us more clue:

New class of anesthetic drugs, the cyclohexamines became available to veterinarians in 50-ies. Ketamine is derivative of phenocyclidine which is forbidden for use in veterinary medicine because of its abuse potential. This is according to the literature, and it makes me wonder in what way is the potential for abuse of ketamine lesser then in this substance.
The mechanism of action in cyclohexamines appears to be disruption of nerve conduction pathways within the cerebrum and stimulation of the reticular activating center of the brain. Unlike most general anesthetics which cause CNS depression, cyclohexamines cause selective CNS stimulation, possibly because of suppression of inhibitory neurons by these drugs.
This results in distinctive type of trance-like anesthesia - as described in my previous post - called catalepsy or dissociative anesthesia, where animal appears awake but immobile and unaware of its surroundings.

Here are some effects of ketamine as brief as possible:
- reflex responses are exaggerated rather then depressed
- marked sensitivity to light and other sensory stimuli, especially during the "waking time"
- increased muscle tone almost to the point of rigidity, this is why we need to use ketamine with other drugs which will alleviate this side effect.
- Although dissociative anesthetics provide significant analgesia to the skin and limbs, visceral analgesia is poor
- Ketamine is very irritating to tissues and painful when injected
- Animals recovering from cyclohexamine anaesthesia often show exaggerated response to touch, light, sound and seizure activity may be observed.

According to veterinary Anaesthesia and Analgesia 3rd edition:
"Personality changes have been reported in animals after recovery from ketamine anaesthesia. Fortunately these usually resolve spontaneously after few days or weeks."

- During my time as stray clinic vet I operated sometimes up to 15 cats or dozen dogs per day. It was a good opportunity to observe side effects of ketamine anesthesia. I never maintained any record but I would say aproximately20 percent of cats and 5 percent of dogs experience violent phase during waking up period and during this phase they are extremely dangerous to themselves as they often bang their heads against the recovery cage.

So, just wanted anyone considering use of ketamine to learn about these effects.
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

I was talking with a nurse friend of mine a couple of days ago, comparing our children's experiences with getting stitches at a young age, etc., and she said that they use Ketamine as a children's anesthetic! I was pretty shocked but it explains one of my kids' description of a hospital stitching experience! The nurse said that since it is a strong dissociant, it is considered safer that a general anesthetic. My child, who was 5 at the time was pretty blown away by the mental aspects of it.

So the medical industry puts children in the same category for these things as animals... jeez!
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Slightly off topic : But I think if your diet is clean then I think you will notice a difference from all anesthetics. I stopped having dental aesthetic years ago due to feeling woozy for days afterwards. Last tooth drill I just held my hand up when it was too painfull , rest then start again. ( I am not suggesting everyone should do this :) )
and this was from a switched on dentist who uses minimal anesthetic and abandoned mercury long before the downsides hit the mainstream. Even his minimal anesthetic was effecting me. At first I thought it was maybe a side effect of mercury removal as I had my fillings removed over a period of years, but last time there was no mercury involved and still 3-4 day recovery.

Be interesting to find if others who have cleaned their diet have same experience. Freinds have found hospital anesthetics are really bad, talking months to clear especially if its been a spinal puncture.
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

well according to several authors who write about spirit possessions and attachments, surgery is the time when a lot of people get attachments, allegedly our astral body is most vulnerable when physical body is under influence of anesthetic
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Now, considering the FACTS of the case, that she went out on Ketamine, that gives an all new perspective to this. What is, in fact, a "permanent abduction by Lizards" other than being induced to do that which destroys the self? Haven't we learned enough about the possibilities for 4D influence of our minds, directly or indirectly, to understand that her experiments with Ketamine were probably "engineered" for the very purpose of destroying her?

Notice the Cs comment about knowledge, also... that her knowledge was "scrambled by drugs." That should be a huge warning to anyone who seeks "enlightenment" via drugs.

Point taken.
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

I've been noticing a LOT of "regular folks" who are only casually interested in "spiritual development" lately mentioning the DMT path as probably the way to go. This is the consequence of this years long propaganda campaign of which people like Graham Hancock and Colin Wilson are participants.

Now, both of them - and many others - come across as being VERY sincere. I keep reiterating that a person can be an "agent" and be the most sincere, well-meaning person on the planet. If they would read my Wave series, they would have read about living examples.

The easiest way to understand this is to watch the movie "Arlington Road"; there you will get a rather graphic lesson in how the sincerest, nicest guy in the world can be used to destroy.

Part of the problem is the way we are inculcated into lies. As Castaneda described it:

Don Juan said:
'I want to appeal to your analytical mind, ' don Juan said. 'Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs, or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal.' (Castaneda, 1998, pp. 213-220)

This is more REAL than most people imagine. These systems of false belief allow our energy of awareness to be eaten constantly. How?

An energy drain can be one's belief in a lie. In other words, if there is someone close who is lying or who is deceived themselves, and you buy into it, you have just connected yourself to the ultimate source of that lie energetically. This can drain your energy, befuddle your mind, and your own psychic energy can be used against you in your own environment.

This is what is happening to so many in the so-called "New Age Movement."
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Laura said:
I've been noticing a LOT of "regular folks" who are only casually interested in "spiritual development" lately mentioning the DMT path as probably the way to go. This is the consequence of this years long propaganda campaign of which people like Graham Hancock and Colin Wilson are participants.

Now, both of them - and many others - come across as being VERY sincere. I keep reiterating that a person can be an "agent" and be the most sincere, well-meaning person on the planet. If they would read my Wave series, they would have read about living examples.

The easiest way to understand this is to watch the movie "Arlington Road"; there you will get a rather graphic lesson in how the sincerest, nicest guy in the world can be used to destroy.

Part of the problem is the way we are inculcated into lies. As Castaneda described it:

Don Juan said:
'I want to appeal to your analytical mind, ' don Juan said. 'Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs, or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal.' (Castaneda, 1998, pp. 213-220)

This is more REAL than most people imagine. These systems of false belief allow our energy of awareness to be eaten constantly. How?

An energy drain can be one's belief in a lie. In other words, if there is someone close who is lying or who is deceived themselves, and you buy into it, you have just connected yourself to the ultimate source of that lie energetically. This can drain your energy, befuddle your mind, and your own psychic energy can be used against you in your own environment.

This is what is happening to so many in the so-called "New Age Movement."

My god, that was very interesting, guess I'll have to be more carefull when trusting people.

EDU
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

EGVG said:
My god, that was very interesting, guess I'll have to be more carefull when trusting people.

EDU

It's really a jungle out there. William Chittick, translator of the works of the great Sufi Shaykh, Ibn al-’Arabi, wrote:

Nowadays most people interested in the spirituality of the East desire the “experience”, though they may call what they are after intimate communion with God. Those familiar with the standards and norms of spiritual experience set down by disciplined paths like Sufism are usually appalled at the way Westerners seize upon any apparition from the domain outside of normal consciousness as a manifestation of the “spiritual”. In fact, there are innumerable realms in the unseen world, some of them far more dangerous than the worst jungles of the visible world.

So preserve yourselves, my brothers, from the calamities of this place, for distinguishing it is extremely difficult! Souls find it sweet, and then within it they are duped, since they become completely enamored of it.
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

EGVG, have you read the Wave series? I am wondering because if you had read the whole series, you would have known this. There is a lot of knowledge in those books. Most of it crucial to what we may all end up going through in the not-to-distant future.

We dont' suggest to people to read those books just for grins and giggles. There are certain things that we need to learn and Laura has spent a humongous amount of time, practically her whole life, finding these things out and then condensing what she has found into these books so that we can still learn a lot of what she has learned but don't have to go digging through a mountain range of books to do it.

So reading the material that Laura has put out there for us, compared to what she has done and is doing, is not that much to ask. And it really could save you some day.
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Nienna Eluch said:
EGVG, have you read the Wave series? I am wondering because if you had read the whole series, you would have known this. There is a lot of knowledge in those books. Most of it crucial to what we may all end up going through in the not-to-distant future.

We dont' suggest to people to read those books just for grins and giggles. There are certain things that we need to learn and Laura has spent a humongous amount of time, practically her whole life, finding these things out and then condensing what she has found into these books so that we can still learn a lot of what she has learned but don't have to go digging through a mountain range of books to do it.

So reading the material that Laura has put out there for us, compared to what she has done and is doing, is not that much to ask. And it really could save you some day.

No, I haven't completely read it. I'm on to 1/3 of all the Wave material. I have stooped, I'm not in the right place to continue, at least I'm not allowing it to happen, I'm under the influence of stressful thoughts and also have a lot of pressure from outside. That is why I haven't complete reading it, but I know its a MUST DO. So now I'm trying to get clean do a lot of EE, and then complete my readings. Sorry if I made you loose your patience. But you know I experincing adolescence right now and I have to say its not easy, specially when you cannot talk any of this to your friends because they think I'm talking shhhiiiieijh. Anyway sorry again.

EDU
 
Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

EGVG said:
Nienna Eluch said:
EGVG, have you read the Wave series? I am wondering because if you had read the whole series, you would have known this. There is a lot of knowledge in those books. Most of it crucial to what we may all end up going through in the not-to-distant future.

We dont' suggest to people to read those books just for grins and giggles. There are certain things that we need to learn and Laura has spent a humongous amount of time, practically her whole life, finding these things out and then condensing what she has found into these books so that we can still learn a lot of what she has learned but don't have to go digging through a mountain range of books to do it.

So reading the material that Laura has put out there for us, compared to what she has done and is doing, is not that much to ask. And it really could save you some day.

No, I haven't completely read it. I'm on to 1/3 of all the Wave material. I have stooped, I'm not in the right place to continue, at least I'm not allowing it to happen, I'm under the influence of stressful thoughts and also have a lot of pressure from outside. That is why I haven't complete reading it, but I know its a MUST DO. So now I'm trying to get clean do a lot of EE, and then complete my readings. Sorry if I made you loose your patience. But you know I experincing adolescence right now and I have to say its not easy, specially when you cannot talk any of this to your friends because they think I'm talking shhhiiiieijh. Anyway sorry again.

EDU

I am not losing patience, and I apologize if it came across that way. I was just curious.

Thank you for answering my question. I think that if you could continue to read the Wave series, it may help you to work through some of your problems.

And why would you be talking about this stuff with your friends? I am fairly sure that you have read about Strategic Enclosure and External Considering, have you not?

EVGV, you have probably stated this before, but how old are you? Again, just curious.
 
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