Graham Hancock

[Horus_Risen]

Re: Magic.

From what I have read on magic, those who are into it are mostly into for reasons of self-importance, self-gratification and self-aggrandizement. (No offense intended, Desiderata :)) These are all highly STS-oriented. Many are also looking for shortcuts to the Work that would help them to connect to their higher consciousness. There are no shortcuts.

Absolutely! I was taken by the idea of increased power, perception, and awareness that "magick" offered. Even though I desired these things for personal freedom and protection and a means to "liberate" others, it was all just self-deception. Now, in retrospect I can see it for what it is; a dead end road.

Also, as you imply Nienna, and I can personally verify from experience, the magickal community is FILLED with megalomaniacs, narcissists, and egoists. So many of them want to be the Grand Poobah. Alas, many will fall into the pit.

So yes, Nathaniel, read, read, read! Learn, learn, learn!

 

[Bar Kochba]

Re: Magic.

I am not sure how old you are, Nathaniel, but I have a story for you. When I was 15, I read every book I could get on Satanic black magic or magik or whatever. Rituals, demons, etc. It all cumulated in one night I am by myself in my room performing a ritual to summon a demon. Halfway through, I get scared. What the hell am I gonna do if this thing shows up? So I stop, burn and/or dismantle everything I had set up. I felt a bit goofy after, and went to bed as I had school next day....cont't next post.

 

[Bar Kochba]

Re: Magic.

...I lay in bed listening to the radio, a John Mellencamp song was playing. Next thing I know I cant move and there is a deep gutteral voice in my head sazing things I cant understand. Meanwhile, I feel something slipping through my hands. I fought desparately to hold on to whatever was sliding thru my hands but it was impossible. I struggled mightely and could suddenly move again and the voice stopped. I was sweating profusely and panting. The same John Mellencamp song was still playing on the radio. Real or dream, I swore of all magic right then and there!

 

[EGVG]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Does anyone know where can i find Marcia Moore's work?? or some info on what she was doing?
If she was permanently abducted, is that necessary means that she is death??

THANKS A LOT :)

:) :)

 

[Laura]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Does anyone know where can i find Marcia Moore's work?? or some info on what she was doing?
If she was permanently abducted, is that necessary means that she is death??

THANKS A LOT :)

:) :)

Have you tried google?

 

[Z...]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

EGVG - why would you be interested in this?

Maricia More was basically advising people to inject themselves with ketamine in order to experience psychedelic extasy
unbelievable but true, as Einstein said "only two things are infinite, universe and human stupidity - and we are not sure about universe."
Not surprisingly, She died of hypothermia in woods near her home
Ketamine is anesthetic that has been in use in veterinary medicine since it's beginnings. It provides very reliable anesthesia but if misused can cause death due to depression of vital centers. It is rarely used in humans, once I spoke to human medicine anesthesiologist who herself had to be anesthetized with ketamine for her surgery because they didn't have anything else in Caribbean island where she lived when this happened.
She described it as the most beautiful experience of her life - nothing even resembling most commonly described shamanic experiences - i.ethere were no bird people or lizards, it was entirely blissful trip. Seems drug addicts have discovered this in last few decades because now we have wave of break ins into veterinary clinics.

I noticed that in cats and to lesser extent in dogs- ketamine anesthesia can trigger some permanent behavioral changes. Can only guess what happens in humans.

 

[Laura]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

I noticed that in cats and to lesser extent in dogs- ketamine anesthesia can trigger some permanent behavioral changes. Can only guess what happens in humans.

Can you give a clue about these changes? Observations?

 

[anart]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

I noticed that in cats and to lesser extent in dogs- ketamine anesthesia can trigger some permanent behavioral changes. Can only guess what happens in humans.

My vet mentioned the same thing. He said many dogs and cats are 'never the same' after having ketamine used on them. He said it is linked to the trauma of being immobile due to the ketamine, but still being able to feel the pain of the incisions, etc. I could be mistaken on that, though, so a clearer explanation would be interesting.

 

[Laura]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

I noticed that in cats and to lesser extent in dogs- ketamine anesthesia can trigger some permanent behavioral changes. Can only guess what happens in humans.

My vet mentioned the same thing. He said many dogs and cats are 'never the same' after having ketamine used on them. He said it is linked to the trauma of being immobile due to the ketamine, but still being able to feel the pain of the incisions, etc. I could be mistaken on that, though, so a clearer explanation would be interesting.

Makes me think of all the human babies that have had surgery done on them - even open-heart surgery - with no anaesthesia, just a paralytic drug so they can't move. I think it damages them for life.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

EGVG - why would you be interested in this?

Maricia More was basically advising people to inject themselves with ketamine in order to experience psychedelic extasy
unbelievable but true, as Einstein said "only two things are infinite, universe and human stupidity - and we are not sure about universe."
Not surprisingly, She died of hypothermia in woods near her home
Ketamine is anesthetic that has been in use in veterinary medicine since it's beginnings. It provides very reliable anesthesia but if misused can cause death due to depression of vital centers. It is rarely used in humans, once I spoke to human medicine anesthesiologist who herself had to be anesthetized with ketamine for her surgery because they didn't have anything else in Caribbean island where she lived when this happened.
She described it as the most beautiful experience of her life - nothing even resembling most commonly described shamanic experiences - i.ethere were no bird people or lizards, it was entirely blissful trip. Seems drug addicts have discovered this in last few decades because now we have wave of break ins into veterinary clinics.

I noticed that in cats and to lesser extent in dogs- ketamine anesthesia can trigger some permanent behavioral changes. Can only guess what happens in humans.

John Lilly used ketamine to explore 'inner spce' first in flotation tanks investigating the effects of sensory deprivation and later because he seemed to 'get messages' while on ketamine.

I had two books of his: Centre of the Cyclone , The Scientist. I think both explored his sensory deprivation / haluciagenic experiments but from memory Cyclone was more a biography focusing on Sensory Dep/Military/Cetacions and Oscar Icazo at Esalen and Big Sur, I am sure the Scientist went into more depth with ketamine.
Open to correction, my summary is from memory - read these books in the 80s so might have them mixed up a little.

 

[anart]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

John Lilly used ketamine to explore 'inner spce' first in flotation tanks investigating the effects of sensory deprivation and later because he seemed to 'get messages' while on ketamine.

I had two books of his: Centre of the Cyclone , The Scientist. I think both explored his sensory deprivation / haluciagenic experiments but from memory Cyclone was more a biography focusing on Sensory Dep/Military/Cetacions and Oscar Icazo at Esalen and Big Sur, I am sure the Scientist went into more depth with ketamine.
Open to correction, my summary is from memory - read these books in the 80s so might have them mixed up a little.

A lot of drug abusers use ketamine. I'm wondering what your point might be?

 

[EGVG]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Yes, I did search on Google, I found that her books are not anywhere to be easily obtain. If she was abducted for getting too close to the Truth them maybe she was on to something with her ketamine experiences. I'm no one to judge her, but it seem that her methods where not the safest. I have friends, that have used this drug, they are all coke users and who knows what else, but what I've heard is that you feel like you body is dying on you. That you are conscience and that you fell how your mind and body disconnect. I think this could give to some people the certain that there is life beyond physicality. And also, if she was permanently abducted, them how is it possible for the police to say they found her skull or that she injected herself on top of a tree and froze to death, that couldn't happen if she mas taken away...

I also think that surgery on babies is one of the most traumatic things one could experience, especially just after you are born, The people that are born with this kind of strange or hard to operate conditions, its because they where meant to be born that way. I think it was their choice. It must feel like been abducted, also for the dogs and cats that have been submitted to ketamine anesthetics.


EDU

 

[Z...]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

Yes, I did search on Google, I found that her books are not anywhere to be easily obtain.

thanks God for that

If she was abducted for getting too close to the Truth them maybe she was on to something with her ketamine experiences.

I am surprised that you would think so after everything that has been said in this thread on the subject. Ketamin is synthetic substance, this cannot come even close to shamanic experiences induced by natural substances. But this is besides the point as it is general consensus in this study group that hallucinogenic drugs of any kind are dangerous shortcut to shamanic experiences. The reasons for these conclusions were detailed in numerous threads.

And also, if she was permanently abducted, them how is it possible for the police to say they found her skull or that she injected herself on top of a tree and froze to death, that couldn't happen if she mas taken away...

this is very simple, she was not abducted, she was a drug abusing crackpot who killed her self with overdose of anesthetic. X-file closed.

Laura, unfortunately I only have anecdotal evidence i.e the testimonies from the owners, certain number of cats and dogs that have been outgoing and relaxed prior to surgery change for life, become recluse, very shy if not afraid of people and in some cases afraid of their own shadow.
I think the clue is in the mechanism through which ketamin works. I dont have much time now, but I will post more excessive information about ketamine later on during the day. Then those who are wondering about ketamine. can make informed decision.
In short- Ketamine is used to induce catalepsy also known as dissociative anesthesia, this means the animal appears to be awake but immobile and unaware of its surroundings . Ketamine generally has poor analgesic properties, especially for deeper tissues and organs. This is why it is used in combination with other substances , such as opioids to achieve good level of analgesia. Without these substances surgery under ketamine only must be terrible experience, nevertheless some vets use it for minor procedures. I personally think it is a crime.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

John Lilly used ketamine to explore 'inner spce' first in flotation tanks investigating the effects of sensory deprivation and later because he seemed to 'get messages' while on ketamine.

I had two books of his: Centre of the Cyclone , The Scientist. I think both explored his sensory deprivation / haluciagenic experiments but from memory Cyclone was more a biography focusing on Sensory Dep/Military/Cetacions and Oscar Icazo at Esalen and Big Sur, I am sure the Scientist went into more depth with ketamine.
Open to correction, my summary is from memory - read these books in the 80s so might have them mixed up a little.

A lot of drug abusers use ketamine. I'm wondering what your point might be?

To add more info about ketamine use as mentioned in Corto's piece, Lilly was an explorer not a junkie - although from his biog he probably started to become paranoid/dependant on 'K' as he called it in order to contact the 'beings' that were giving him messages.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

Re: Black Magic, Shamanism, Supernatural, Graham Hancock

John Lilly used ketamine to explore 'inner spce' first in flotation tanks investigating the effects of sensory deprivation and later because he seemed to 'get messages' while on ketamine.

I had two books of his: Centre of the Cyclone , The Scientist. I think both explored his sensory deprivation / haluciagenic experiments but from memory Cyclone was more a biography focusing on Sensory Dep/Military/Cetacions and Oscar Icazo at Esalen and Big Sur, I am sure the Scientist went into more depth with ketamine.
Open to correction, my summary is from memory - read these books in the 80s so might have them mixed up a little.

A lot of drug abusers use ketamine. I'm wondering what your point might be?

To add info about ketamine use as Corto had mentioned it in the post before mine. So that If anyone was interested they could read John Lillys books.
Lilly wasnt a drug user in the sense of taking drugs to get high/escape he was a scientist and psychoanalyst.

From Wiki
Lilly was a qualified physician and psychoanalyst. He made contributions in the fields of biophysics, neurophysiology, electronics, computer science, and neuroanatomy. He invented and promoted the use of the isolation tank as a means of sensory deprivation[2]. He also invented the peak-flow meter. He was also a pioneer in attempting interspecies communication between humans and dolphins. His work helped establish the creation of the United States Marine Mammal Protection Act.

His eclectic career began as a conventional scientist doing research for universities and government. But as he followed his own inquiries, Lilly delved into what mainstream science considers fringe areas. He published many books and had two Hollywood movies based loosely on his work.

Development of the sensory deprivation tank

In 1953, he took a post studying neurophysiology with the US Public Health Service Commissioned Officers Corps. At the NIMH in 1954,[3][4][5][6] following the desire to strip away outside stimuli from the mind/brain, he devised the first isolation tank, a dark soundproof tank of warm salt water in which subjects could float for long periods in sensory isolation. Lilly and a research colleague were the first to act as subjects in this research.

He later studied other large-brained mammals and in the late 1950s he established a centre devoted to fostering human-dolphin communication; the Communication Research Institute on St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands. In the early 1960s, Lilly and co-workers published several papers reporting that dolphins could mimic human speech patterns[7][8]. Subsequent investigations of dolphin cognition have generally, however, found it difficult to replicate his results.
[edit] Exploration of human consciousness

In the early sixties he was introduced to psychedelics like LSD and (later) ketamine and began a series of experiments in which he took the psychedelic either in an isolation tank or in the company of dolphins. These events are described in his books Programming and Metaprogramming in the Human Biocomputer: Theory and Experiments and The Center of the Cyclone, both published in 1972. Following advice from Ram Dass, Lilly studied Patanjali's system of yoga (finding I. K. Taimni's Science of Yoga, a modernized interpretation of the Sanskrit text, most suited to his goals). He also paid special attention to 'Who am I?' meditation advocated by Sri Ramana Maharshi, and was reformulating the principles of this exercise along the lines of his human biocomputer paradigm (described in Programming and Metaprogramming in the Human Biocomputer: Theory and Experiments and The Center of the Cyclone). He later travelled to Chile and trained with the spiritual leader Oscar Ichazo (whose attitude to metaphysical consciousness exploration Lilly characterized as "empirical" in The Center of the Cyclone). Lilly claimed to have achieved the highest level of Satori-Samadhi during his training.

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He starts experimenting with LSD, later he moves to Ketamine. He 'channels/communicates' with 'entities' under ketamine - from memory his ketamine communications become more paranoid.