Greece: debt, creditors, austerity measures, Syriza, Varoufakis, Troika

[casper]

As it concerns natural resources, Greece is actually very rich in both petrol and natural gas resources. Quote from an article from Globalresearch.ca (_http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-new-mediterranean-oil-and-gas-bonanza/29609):

The discovery in late 2010 of the huge natural gas bonanza off Israel’s Mediterranean shores triggered other neighboring countries to look more closely at their own waters. The results revealed that the entire eastern Mediterranean is swimming in huge untapped oil and gas reserves. That discovery is having enormous political, geopolitical as well as economic consequences. It well may have potential military consequences too.

So, petrol and gas is not only an issue, but really it's quite the opposite: it's another major potential source of income. Greece is also (due do it's volcanic nature) one the world's richest countries in rare earth minerals which are more precious that gold per weight, and heavily used in advanced technology applications.

I think that's one reason why the EU is "struggling" to keep Greece in in the Eurozone, as the wars in the world are in fact occur due to natural resources. Libya, Iraq, Nigeria, Sudan, are just some of the countries where it is currently fighting a war for the largest oil deposits in the world.
Today, oil, water tomorrow ... wars in Congo water for control of mines in the eastern part of the country that provide minerals that are found in almost all mobile telefonima..Grčka is a country rich in minerals, but also there is a very good strategic position, the somehow it is a bridge between East and West,

Also, Greece and Turkey have expressed their support for the construction of the pipeline "Turkish stream". That's what recently for the Russian TV channel Rossia 24 spoke Greek Energy Minister Panayotis Lafazanis. He said the construction of the infrastructure project to deal with the Greek state-owned company.
Quote of the Greek Minister:
"The financing is secured, the company is ready. In addition, it has the necessary experience for the fast and effective construction of the facility. I estimate that the project will cost about 2 billion euros, will enable about 20 thousand jobs and guarantee the energy security of our region. All the main issues already agreed upon and in Greece will sign a Memorandum of political support for the project between Greece and Russia in the international economic forum in St. Petersburg. "

The United States can not accept the presence of Russian energy on the Balkan Peninsula as a single geographical land link between Central Asia, the Middle East and Europe, so these days began to walk European and US statesmen on the Balkan Peninsula (of course, not for tourism)

 

[casper]

The Greek government has adopted a plan reforms?
link:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/09/greek-crisis-reform-plan-grexit-tsipras-draghi-live

 

[spyraal]

The Greek government has adopted a plan reforms?
link:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/09/greek-crisis-reform-plan-grexit-tsipras-draghi-live

Well, not really... It's actually more complex than that... again. LOL

This afternoon the Greek government cabinet (meaning the group of people who hold positions as ministers etc.) just came to an agreement among them and signed a "final" draft for the proposal they will offer on Sunday for negotiation. Still, tomorrow morning there will be another meeting, this time with all the SYRIZA's MPs to talk again over this proposal for an agreement, with major additions or reductions still possible. SYRIZA is actually a coalition of other minor leftist parties ranging from pro-EU leftists, to communists, to anti-capitalists and even near anarchists as I mentioned in another post of mine. "SYRIZA" stands for Coalition of Radical Left in Greek. Reaching an unanimous agreement among these inner parties inside SYRIZA won't be easy.

And whatever the final Greek proposal may be, it will have at the end to be voted by a majority in the parliament. And since it is an agreement with foreign nations or institutions, Greek constitution dictates that it will have to pass with the so called "enhanced majority", meaning at least 180 MPs out of the 300. Imagine SYRIZA and his coalition party hold a total of just 158 seats in the parliament. Will they get support from the MPs of other parties or not? Who knows... Not even for SYRIZA's own MPs it isn't sure whether they will dare to vote for more austerity and taxes really. If the final agreement text does not get voted by the needed majority in the Greek parliament, we could even have another general election or a new referendum... Who knows? So, any articles like this that suggest a "final" and conclusive agreement is reached at this time, are simply not aware of how things work or fish for visits on their webpage.

And it doesn't even end here! Regardless of Greece, and whatever the final agreement may be, it will have to pass through the parliaments of other countries too! From the German parliament for sure. So will the German parliament vote for it when a great part of Merkel's own party is flirting with the idea of "punishing" Greece with a Grexit? Even the so called Troika (EU, ECB, IMF) have had many conflicting interests among them so far, with IMF representing the American government's interests as it is known.

So, I personally trust almost nothing of what is on the mainstream news these days. In such war-like negotiations it is common to play strong when one is weak, or weak when one is strong. To pretend reaching a consensus when preparing for rupture. Or to pretend to disagree just before intending to come to an agreement, so as to improve one's negotiating position... The fact is no-one declares his true intentions so as not to allow the opposing side to counter act in time. It's a mess. A combination of chess and hard core poker. Only by long observation of the devil in the details can one reach some general idea of what each side is really after.

IMO only on Sunday will we know more objectively what is about to happen, when the game of impressions will have to come to an end and both sides will have to open their playing cards on the table.... :D Have you got "negotiations fatigue" yet? Imagine the Greek people after all these months, not to include the past 6 years when Troika was visiting Greece for inspection/negotiations every other month..! What a nightmare indeed.

Thank you!
:)

 

[Redrock12]

Thanks for your posts spyraal. You're giving us information we would never get from the msm.
I never knew that Greece produced 95% of its food, nor was I aware of the potential oil and gas reserves of the Eastern Mediterranean. Or the potential for 20,000 jobs in that sector.
Tsipras is one smart guy.
Good information to have when discussing Greece.

 

[Mr.Cyan]

Thanks for your posts spyraal. You're giving us information we would never get from the msm.
I never knew that Greece produced 95% of its food, nor was I aware of the potential oil and gas reserves of the Eastern Mediterranean. Or the potential for 20,000 jobs in that sector.
Tsipras is one smart guy.
Good information to have when discussing Greece.

Ditto, thanks a million spyraal for all the info and trenchant views, much appreciated :)

While i was aware of the potential Oil and Gas and natural resources in Greece (including the merchant shipping and world class tourism industry) - i didnt know as well that Greece produces 95% of its food. I think this is an important fact, for it will prove later that if Greece becomes "under siege" by the Empire for not agreeing to a deal or trying to exit the EU - there will be enough food to go around. A relieving thought.

Also from these facts, i think they also clearly show that Tsipras and SYRIZA, especially after the OXI result are actually negotiating from a position of strength. For if they have already plan B in place to switch to a new currency - then they can really "push" the Troika into a corner by demanding a debt haircut, and more humane reforms. The Empire/Troika for sure will behave the normal psychopatic way and go ballistic - and by then it will be a clearer path to implement plan B.

About plan B, it is definitely going to take a while to implement a new currency - and in the interim, as you mentioned a good method will be to nationalize the banks - and concurrently issue temporary credit/debit cards to enable people to purchase food, and goods and services until the new currency is printed and available. Liquidity will be restored through these measures and once the Greek banking system is out of the clutches of the ECB. Further im pretty sure the Empire will try its best to speculate and "attack" the new drachma to ensure volatility or increase inflationary pressure - and this can definitely be mitigated by limiting the convertibility of the curreny on international forex markets (similar to how the Chinese protected their Renminbi for a long time); or not allowing it to be traded at all. Add this, to BRICS or AIIB being a key purchaser of new Greek drachma bonds to provide for further stability - it is clearly possible to implement a plan B.

Thinking further, im sure the Empire knows this pretty well, and the only way to counter these eventualities (in their view) are false flags or a colour revolution in Greece to remove SYRIZA from power - and install a puppet government. All the other options they have (no bailout extension, no debt haircut, further austerity etc.) will only lead to them revealing to humanity their true psychopatic nature. Im sure Tsipras and SYRIZA too know this, and one can only imagine how many behind the scenes moves and counter-moves are going on now...

 

[spyraal]

Thanks for your posts spyraal. You're giving us information we would never get from the msm.
I never knew that Greece produced 95% of its food, nor was I aware of the potential oil and gas reserves of the Eastern Mediterranean. Or the potential for 20,000 jobs in that sector.
Tsipras is one smart guy.
Good information to have when discussing Greece.

You are all so welcomed, and I am only glad to be in position to offer some "inside" information that adds to the objectivity of this network concerning the Greek situation. I have received so much through all these years from it and everyone of you, that I can only be happy for any opportunity to offer anything in return. I would not be the same person without the work of the SOTT team and this forum. So take care you all, and I thank you once more.

 

[luke wilson]

Apparently the proposal they submitted for consideration includes concessions they were unwilling to make only weeks ago! To me it reads that the referendum didn't amount to much if more austerity will befall the country. Thoughts?

 

[SeekinTruth]

This is translated from Russian and posted on the Saker's blog. I thought it would fit well here. Just keep in mind that the German political class, as well as, all of EU's is just vassals for the empire.

http://thesaker.is/germany-suffers-yet-another-historic-defeat/

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, I agree, spyraal and Mr.Cyan with your thoughts. There are even more options for Greece. For example, the Lisbon Treaty has an emergency clause where the Bank of Greece (or any member state) can issue Euros. So that can also help the liquidity in the transition period.

This was translated from Russian and posted on the Saker's blog. It follows very closely to my take on the no-win situation the EU and the Eurozone has gotten itself into. All this will accelerate the unraveling of the Union.

http://thesaker.is/germany-suffers-yet-another-historic-defeat/

 

[spyraal]

Apparently the proposal they submitted for consideration includes concessions they were unwilling to make only weeks ago! To me it reads that the referendum didn't amount to much if more austerity will befall the country. Thoughts?

After reading the proposal, it is indeed including such nasty concessions. Early this morning, a declared pro-Grexit group inside SYRIZA called "Left Platform" which accounts for more than 1/3 of it's MPs, published a strong condemnation of the current proposal. It reads among other things "this proposal constitutes a Hubris that violates the will of the people. These who will dare to lead the people and the Greek Left to disgrace and humiliation should also be ready to face Nemesis (punishment)". So, there seems to be major disagreement among SYRIZA's own people. I can't really tell of course if it reflects a genuine situation of inner-party conflict or it is just part of a carefully premeditated drama. Anything goes.

But searching for the devil in the details again, one paragraph of the proposal says the Greek parliament's Debt Audit Committee that questions the legitimacy of the Greece's public debt "should be allowed to continue to work until it reaches it's final verdict, and this verdict should be respected and not questioned". Take into account that the Debt Audit Committee's preliminary report that was published earlier this month, reached the conclusion that near a 60% of the total Greek public debt constitutes an "odious debt", one that should not be paid in accordance to international law. This might be the carefully planted "bomb" inside the proposal, meant to break the final deal. As I said in an earlier post, in these 2 days that are left until Sunday we will witness a show and we might hear a lot of rumors, hearsay and doublespeak from both sides... Having seen this kind of "performance" played over and over again, I cannot say I am either pessimistic or optimistic yet.

 

[luke wilson]

Reading the article from saker, I get the impression that they will crush Greece and leave it in ruin rather than let it escape. They will do this so that none of the other countries get any bright ideas. After all, Greece is only the first one in line, there are more to follow along that southern european strip...

So debt slavery vs absolute economic obliteration seems to be the options open to Greece are my views. Pessimistic but we are dealing with psychopaths here...

 

[SeekinTruth]

Reading the article from saker, I get the impression that they will crush Greece and leave it in ruin rather than let it escape. They will do this so that none of the other countries get any bright ideas. After all, Greece is only the first one in line, there are more to follow along that southern european strip...

So debt slavery vs absolute economic obliteration seems to be the options open to Greece are my views. Pessimistic but we are dealing with psychopaths here...

Well, they'll try. But the problem with psychopaths is that they don't have a good concept of future consequences, so they end up destroying themselves in the long run (even if they destroy everything else in the process). But since there are just as bad unsustainable debts in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc., and strong and growing anti-EU movements there, the more they drop their masks, the more likely the "contagion" spreads. Also, as was pointed out, it will be quite hard to completely crush Greece economically, because they are almost self sustaining with food production. All they need is some help from Russia and China, and they can be back on their feet in a relatively short time. If the political will is their, they can definitely escape debt slavery (but the Greek public has to be clearly convinced that leaving the Euro and the EU is their best course - they don't seem to be convinced of that as of now).

 

[luke wilson]

Hmmm... True. The majority are pro EU. The majority are brainwashed. The majority are anti Russian. The majority have bought into the ethos of the PTB and will always look towards them for guidance, no matter how tough things get, regardless of whether its the PTB causing the problems to begin with. The PTB can always change public faces thus create illusions of choice, democracy and people power...

The Greek population, they toy with the idea of Russia, yet when it gets real, they will always side with the EU. The big dream of the EU, the glitz, the glamour, the culture.. They wont align with Russia or china or BRICS... No way, not unless the EU thoroughly and completely sell them out and stop offering chance after chance after chance, regardless of how false and hollow these chances are.

For me, they'll go down the route of more debt slavery. If that doesn't work, economic Armageddon. If the current prime minister sells out the referendum, there are the seeds for his overthrow right there, meaning political chaos, lack of leadership etc... In short, chaos, chaos and more chaos.

 

[Kasia]

Now Greece is in a tight corner. It has no choice. It still has to cooperate in some way with EU, but finally, in about 1.5-2 years it will leave UE to align with Russia.

 

[spyraal]

People march against the agreement on most major Greek cities. Tension, tears and disagreement on Greek parliament. Tsipras asked for unanimous support from his MPs. Four of them up to now declared that they will not vote for it. The proposal is consider too harsh by SYRIZA MPs to vote, but still it might prove too soft for the German government to approve. Talks to continue in Greek parliament until late before the agreement is finally accepted or rejected. Long night ahead.