Gurdjieff's Primitive Cosmology

Laura said:
"Gurdjieff and Hypnosis" discusses that relationship to some extent, though not in depth. The point is made that, at a certain point in time, Ouspensky wanted a demonstration from Gurdjieff about his claimed powers. Apparently, Gurdjieff gave it to him and it was a very bizarre and possibly upsetting experience. It was after that, I believe, that Ouspensky became disaffected.
if I remember correctly,
Gurdjieff caused a Voice to be heard by Ouspensky that emanated from Ouspenskys Own Sternum , or Diaphragm,

Apparently that was a little too much for him.

Yet I have experienced people who can talk into anothers head.

And even on one occasion was able to hear other peoples thoughts, by making completely quiet my own mind.

Havent finished more than the first chapter of the hypnosis book,
But I hope to have something of value to offer soon.
 

Gaby

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I'm reading the translation of "Idea of History" where the conferences and an additional letter are in the end after the 5 parts of the book. I now started with the letter he wrote in Italy while he was with his friend Ruggiero. It was a long ride! Sometimes I didn't understood what I was reading one day, only to understand it when I picked up the book the next day. This is a trailblazer text for my brain! I couldn't have read this book in one sitting.

I can't comment at length in English what I read in Spanish, perhaps only that for me it highlights the importance of "thinking with a hammer" and our attitude in the face of external events and our situation. Our animal natures are transitory and relativistic, but objective reality and our souls are not. Learning all we can about objective reality and discerning and understanding the affirmative vs the negative aspects of this reality, objectively, should help us to conceive the future.

I couldn't help to think at some points of what the Cs said: "we are you in the future", "time does not exist", "the past and the future are all in the present". As if these concepts had a better shape in my mind with the aid of Collingwood's explanations.

I personally didn't like the translation and will get an English copy so I can read and think about what I highlighted from the Spanish book in the original version.

My 0.02 cents!
 

genero81

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Gaby said:
I'm reading the translation of "Idea of History" where the conferences and an additional letter are in the end after the 5 parts of the book. I now started with the letter he wrote in Italy while he was with his friend Ruggiero. It was a long ride! Sometimes I didn't understood what I was reading one day, only to understand it when I picked up the book the next day. This is a trailblazer text for my brain! I couldn't have read this book in one sitting.

I can't comment at length in English what I read in Spanish, perhaps only that for me it highlights the importance of "thinking with a hammer" and our attitude in the face of external events and our situation. Our animal natures are transitory and relativistic, but objective reality and our souls are not. Learning all we can about objective reality and discerning and understanding the affirmative vs the negative aspects of this reality, objectively, should help us to conceive the future.

I couldn't help to think at some points of what the Cs said: "we are you in the future", "time does not exist", "the past and the future are all in the present". As if these concepts had a better shape in my mind with the aid of Collingwood's explanations.

I personally didn't like the translation and will get an English copy so I can read and think about what I highlighted from the Spanish book in the original version.

My 0.02 cents!
Yes I agree Gaby it's a workout for the brain and you make a good point about time. Collingwood is making it clear that the study of History is intimately linked to the present.
 

Anthony

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Gaby said:
I'm reading the translation of "Idea of History" where the conferences and an additional letter are in the end after the 5 parts of the book. I now started with the letter he wrote in Italy while he was with his friend Ruggiero. It was a long ride! Sometimes I didn't understood what I was reading one day, only to understand it when I picked up the book the next day. This is a trailblazer text for my brain! I couldn't have read this book in one sitting.

I can't comment at length in English what I read in Spanish, perhaps only that for me it highlights the importance of "thinking with a hammer" and our attitude in the face of external events and our situation. Our animal natures are transitory and relativistic, but objective reality and our souls are not. Learning all we can about objective reality and discerning and understanding the affirmative vs the negative aspects of this reality, objectively, should help us to conceive the future.

I couldn't help to think at some points of what the Cs said: "we are you in the future", "time does not exist", "the past and the future are all in the present". As if these concepts had a better shape in my mind with the aid of Collingwood's explanations.

I personally didn't like the translation and will get an English copy so I can read and think about what I highlighted from the Spanish book in the original version.

My 0.02 cents!
The whole book is based, it seems, on the concept of thinking with a hammer, or thought of the second order as he calls it. He talks a lot about how to think and maybe more importantly how not to think (for instance in the first part of the book where he looks at various writers and how they conceived of history).
 

Laura

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Anthony said:
The whole book is based, it seems, on the concept of thinking with a hammer, or thought of the second order as he calls it. He talks a lot about how to think and maybe more importantly how not to think (for instance in the first part of the book where he looks at various writers and how they conceived of history).
Yes. This is one of the reasons I wanted all of you to read it; it basically explains a LOT about how to do "The Work" as we understand it from the Cs more than from Gurdjieff. With this information in your head, you will be better able to see how Gurdjieff's practices were rather off the mark and mostly a waste of time. Yet, there WERE some useful items from Gurdjieff and putting it all together with help of Cs is what I want to do.
 

seek10

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Anthony said:
Gaby said:
I'm reading the translation of "Idea of History" where the conferences and an additional letter are in the end after the 5 parts of the book. I now started with the letter he wrote in Italy while he was with his friend Ruggiero. It was a long ride! Sometimes I didn't understood what I was reading one day, only to understand it when I picked up the book the next day. This is a trailblazer text for my brain! I couldn't have read this book in one sitting.

I can't comment at length in English what I read in Spanish, perhaps only that for me it highlights the importance of "thinking with a hammer" and our attitude in the face of external events and our situation. Our animal natures are transitory and relativistic, but objective reality and our souls are not. Learning all we can about objective reality and discerning and understanding the affirmative vs the negative aspects of this reality, objectively, should help us to conceive the future.

I couldn't help to think at some points of what the Cs said: "we are you in the future", "time does not exist", "the past and the future are all in the present". As if these concepts had a better shape in my mind with the aid of Collingwood's explanations.

I personally didn't like the translation and will get an English copy so I can read and think about what I highlighted from the Spanish book in the original version.

My 0.02 cents!
The whole book is based, it seems, on the concept of thinking with a hammer, or thought of the second order as he calls it. He talks a lot about how to think and maybe more importantly how not to think (for instance in the first part of the book where he looks at various writers and how they conceived of history).
I was reading the Idea of History and read half of it. I find it interesting. I read History that is the copy and Paste from the authors commissioned by Rulers or the history that fit into aim of certain associations. This is the first time I am reading it as a philosophy and different attempts to fit into known sciences/natures, which itself is very painful one. The argument that History is reconstruction (of what happened in the past) in the mind of the author is interesting with its own pitfalls. In the end, it is very difficult to reconstruct the past with the limited set of data that survives given that our mind is vulnerable to many distortions( psychology books). Given that this analysis is done without the support of the establishment of the time( or at least against the religious dogma's), they must have faced lot of hurdles, thus making progress very slow. I think reading this is a very good exercise. Thank you Laura for suggesting.
 

kenlee

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Just some quick comments here. I'm presently reading 'The Idea of History' by Collingwood on Kindle and find it extremely interesting but I'm going to order the actual book since I tend to read slowly and 'non linearly' and often, after reading a valuable book, I'll read it again and again and jump around from one point in the book to another as I begin to grok more and more of what the author is trying to say. Collingwood's book is that kind of book. The Gurdjieff and Hypnosis book is on it's way from Amazon and I'm looking forward to reading it.

Regarding the present day Gurdjieff groups, especially the Gurdjieff Foundation groups, of which there are a LOT worldwide I wonder if there is some kind of 'Darkness Over Tibet' thing going on with the whole bunch of 'em. During the time of Gurdjieff maybe it was about 'inner work' primarily. Kind of like the inhale phase of the Work but maybe at this point in time we are in the exhale phase of the work, which is an outward movement, where certain ideas need to be be spread into the world such as psychopathy, objective criticism of society and the Government, new Knowledge that comes from the future, etc., and maybe they are all stuck in the inhale phase (so to speak) thinking that it's the "Fourth Way" and never moving on? I don't really know, but I would think that a true spiritual movement would be an outward movement and not an inner one. Just thinking aloud here fwiw.
 

gdpetti

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Wasn't that 'inner' and 'outer' a point the C's made in terms of it all being one? subjectivity separates, objectivity unifies.
On history, doesn't it seem to be an attempt to understand the present through the past? So understanding the present allows you to understand the past.... again the same thing the C's said... the expanded present, which from 4d just makes it obvious instead of conjectual.
 

Altair

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Finished Gurdjieff and Hypnosis by Mohammad H. Tamdgidi.

In the first half of the book author gives an introduction to G's cosmology, enneagram, ray of creation and so on. He uses only G's own books and statements (The Herald of Coming Good (1933), All and Everything: Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson (1950), Meetings With Remarkable Men (1963), and Life Is Real Only Then, When “I Am” (1978).) for his conclusions.

In the 2nd half he analyses G's ideas and possible goals which he was trying to achieve by using hypnosis techniques.

Here are some interesting quotes.

About the goal of the book:

It is important to note here that this study is not concerned with evaluating the effectiveness of Gurdjieff ’s hypnotic techniques and powers per se, but with substantiating the proposition that he indeed was consciously, intentionally, and systematically preoccupied with and practiced hypnotism throughout his life, including, and especially so, during his career as a writer and through his writings.
I see Gurdjieff as a multitude of selves, some Svengali-type, black magician and “devilish” perhaps, others “Ashiata Shiemashian” (as how he idealized his white magician selves), and yet others of all hues and degrees of virtuosity in between. I see all characters in Gurdjieff’s literary dramaturgy as representing one way or another his own selves in a world-historical, contemporary, and utopystic dialogue with one another—his writings being, ultimately, a vast cosmological and psychological effort on his part to understand and perhaps heal his low and high selves self-confessedly caught in the Purgatory of much remorse of conscience; yet, he was hopeful in finding a way to help liberate his soul and those of his fellow “three-brained beings.”
About "organ Kundabuffer":

The key to the link between the question of the purpose of life and death on the one hand, and the problem of the subconscious mind on the other, is the notion of the “organ Kundabuffer” introduced by Gurdjieff into the texture of his teaching. This “buffer” is one that obstructs the blending of the physical unconscious (instinctive), the emotional subconscious, and the mental consciousness in the individual, impeding him from proper understanding and control over her or his own organism. This buffer acts to prevent the premature realization of the “terror of the situation” of one’s purpose in organic life. It is this buffer that lies at the bottom of the hypnotic sleep of our everyday lives, brought on by nature so as to prevent the human organism’s awakening to the realization of the inevitability of her or his death. However, it is also the transcendence of this buffer and its consequences—which fragment the inner life of the “individual” into separately functioning three centers — that is at the heart of the purpose of Gurdjieff’s teaching and explains why he was so interested in acquiring the necessary knowledge and skills for the practice of hypnotism.
A particular consequence of the “organ Kundabuffer,” that is, of suggestibility through hypnosis with respect to external influences, is the phenomena of mass psychosis as manifested, according to Gurdjieff, in wars, revolts, and revolutions.
For Gurdjieff, the way the “organ Kundabuffer” works is that through its functioning a buffer is created in order not to let a contradiction be experienced (known, felt, or sensed). Its purpose is to prevent the human organism, by means of artificial pleasure or enjoyments of this-worldly life, from experiencing the terror of its own inevitable death (B:1220–1227). And in this regard the role played by sexual pleasure is central to his theory, especially given the centrality of sexual function in general in his whole philosophical system.
This "organ Kundabuffer" installed in humans by "archangelic forces" probably can be better described as (genetic) manipulations by 4D STS:

Kundabuffer as a provisional organ to induce hypnosis implanted in the early humans was meant by its archangelic designers to prevent human beings from prematurely sensing the reality of their own inevitable mortality and instead be content with the illusive pleasures of this-worldly, Earthly life. It made humans interested in their planetary environment and bodies as ends in themselves, rather than seeing them only as vehicles and a stage for a much wider cosmic journey.
Note, for now, the implications of the two properties of the organ Kundabuffer for the sexual function. Instead of ‘real’ reproductive interactions, it becomes possible to enjoy sexual interaction with others not only as an end in itself, but also alone, through repetitive action and stimuli of “illusory” impressions that take the place of actual impressions communicated via direct interaction among the sexes during reproductive activity.
And this "organ" was installed "by a grand cosmic mistake":

Gurdjieff ’s answer is simply that this was perhaps all a grand cosmic mistake, though performed in “good conscience,” on the part of archangelic forces. An initial miscalculation of movements of heavenly bodies (comet Kondoor) leads to an unforeseen collision, bringing about new or changed involutionary and evolutionary paths for the planet and its future inhabitants, and finally leading to an impulsive reaction (out of “good conscience”) by the archangelic forces to prevent a future evolutionary disaster for humans that may have perhaps not even taken place. In Gurdjieff ’s mythos, in other words, mistakes were not due to any problems in the Godly designs and plans for creation, but a result of archangelic mistakes and good-intentioned archangelic impulsive behaviors.
This is Gurdjieff ’s explanation of the causes of the fall of humanity, as expressed in the form of his metaphor, the hypnotic “organ Kundabuffer.” The hypnotic indulgence of pre-humans on an illusive and pleasing Earthly life, had its roots, simply, in the mistakes of the higher archangelic elders. This is enough of an explanation for Gurdjieff of the fundamental cause of the Earthly misfortunes. Defects of knowledge are sufficient explanations for him, since for him even knowledge (and its defects) is a material force that can determine the course of cosmic events.
Quoting Paul Beekman Taylor:

… Unfortunately, the number of lacunae, contradictions and speculations that mark the greater part of these accounts confuse more than inform. Though James Moore cautiously called Gurdjieff’s own account of his early life, 1866(?)–1912, “auto-mythology,” he and other writers on Gurdjieff’s life seem to have mythologized the whole of his life. “Mythologized” is, perhaps, an inadequate term. In fact, much written on Gurdjieff’s life after 1912 is pure invention, in some instances speculation paraded as fact.
Matter and Mind:

For Gurdjieff the universe is created. There is a Creator. For him, though, the Creator and the created are made of the same “matter.” The Creator is at the “center” of the created universe. The universe is a self-creating universe, with an intelligent Creator at its center. Everything existing, including the Creator Himself, is absolutely material (Ouspensky 1949:86; Gurdjieff 1984:2092) in nature and thus ultimately comprehensible—hence the reconciliation of the natural with the supernatural: “As above, so below.” In Beelzebub Gurdjieff writes:

“Etherokrilno is that prime-source substance with which the whole Universe is filled, and which is the basis for the arising and maintenance of everything existing … (B:137)

“Bear in mind, here, that it is just because of this that the mentioned Objective Science says that ‘everything without exception in the Universe is material.’” (B:138)
Attention is a material force for Gurdjieff. His epistemology is, like its ontological and psychological premises, consistently materialist. Human consciousness is absolutely material in nature, which can in fact be “weighed and measured.” Gurdjieff refuses to portray human species’ uniqueness in terms solely of his “intellectual” capability. On the contrary, for Gurdjieff the human organism as a whole is the embodiment of consciousness, and is constituted of not one but three brains, making humans “three-brained beings.” Human consciousness, in its perfect state, can be a unity of body, mind, and feeling, whose functioning can be consciously and intentionally blended with one another at will by the organism. However, in its naturally given state, this three-brained system is constituted around three distinct and separately functioning brain centers throughout the human body: i.e., the physical (instinctive), the intellectual, and the emotional. For Gurdjieff, human conceptual or intellectual knowledge only constitutes only one, and by no means a sufficient, aspect of human consciousness.
Gurdjieff calls the movement from fine to coarse matter “involution,” and the opposite, “evolution.” Universe is made of matter of descending (involutionary) and ascending (evolutionary) vibrations. The higher the vibrations of matter—that is, the higher its intelligence—the lower its mechanicalness; and vice versa. At the center of the universe resides the highest vibrating matter, while in the peripheries down the rays of creation, mechanicalness increases and vibrations of intelligence decrease. Mechanicalness and intelligence of matter, thereby, exist in inverse proportion to one another.

It follows from the above that, in Gurdjieff’s view, the all-pervasive materiality of the universe does not negate the notion of its all-pervasive intelligence, i.e., of its being constituted of more or less intelligent matter.
About enneagram:

There is no doubt that Gurdjieff was originally the source of knowledge about the enneagram which is practiced and popularized today in New Age and psychological literature on personality types. However, it is noteworthy that the term “enneagram” does not appear even once in Gurdjieff’s own writings. For him, ‘matter’ and ‘mind’ refer to the same thing.
In the Autoegocratic pre-creation system, the three creative shocks that helped maintain the system’s cyclical renewal were exerted internally by God Himself. In that sense it was a perfect system. It was self-perpetuating, and thus immortal. In the Trogoautoegocratic post-creation system, however, by changing the functioning of the three shock forces of the Law of Three to be operative in mechanical, conscious, and intentional ways, the renewal cycle of the system becomes dependent on forces received from outside, but only in such a way that a degree of relative independence is maintained for the part.
According to C's "the Enneagram system is accurate enough for 3rd density systems with no input from awareness.":

(L) So, I would like to know in what sense is this Enneagram a useful tool?

A: Even lies have a bit of truth. Gurdjieff used his imagination and mediums to construct his system. In a project of that sort, it is not unusual to get some truth. Otherwise it would make no sense at all! The Enneagram system is accurate enough for 3rd density systems with no input from awareness.

Q: (Joe) No input of awareness from people, or... Just a cold reading of someone.

(L) So the Enneagram is kind of the way the mechanical system works.

(Joe) No input from the person, and no input from people who might know the person...

(L) I think they're talking about the Enneagram being 3rd density systems.

(Joe) Okay.

(Pierre) The Enneagram the way the C's define it finally, is similar to the whole cosmogony that Gurdjieff developed, this mechanistic cosmogony. I find two major flaws in it. First, everything is reduced to mechanics. There's no more soul, consciousness, or spirit. Plus there's a breach of free will in his way of trying to spread this knowledge. Not hypnotizing people without their informed consent is of prime importance, and he did not respect the free will of his followers.
But how this mechanicalness of enneagram can be reconciled with 3 shocks that must be given to the system for its renewal: mechanical, conscious, and intentional of which only the first shock is mechanical? Couldn't the other 2 shocks be characterized as "input from awareness"?

Pre-creation and Post-Creation (inspired by the Big Bang theory?)

Gurdjieff’s epistemology is directly derived from his ontological and psychological apparatuses. His mythological distinction between the Autoegocratic (pre-creation) and Trogoautoegocratic (post-creation) systems of universal maintenance illustrates in an exaggerated and abstract way the difference between how things should be and how things are. In reference to human beings, this means the difference between an actual state of automatic and mechanical dependence on the “outside” (environment), and an ideal state of conscious and intentional self-maintenance and selfcreativity. It signifies the difference between the mechanical state of being and a state of conscious and intentional (in Gurdjieff’s words, “all-centersawake”) existence. The post-creation system is a mechanical system that has nevertheless a built-in potential to create relatively Autoegocratic (selfperpetuating) minisystems as blueprints of God at their own lower scales.
About threefold brains:

For a truly “individual” human being, a unitary being whose threefold brains work harmoniously in concert with one another, the realms of the unconscious/instinct (domain of instinctive bodily functions), waking consciousness (domain of intellectual knowledge), and subconscious (domain of feelings and emotions) are intricately connected with and aware of one another and are all under the willful control of the human individual, the rightful passenger of the carriage.
Idea taken from Plato's theory of Ideal State?

With Gurdjieff, the ideal society is achievable through different means, i.e., through an ideal “priest-organization” (B:389) state for society, not as it is understood today but as it allegedly existed in “ancient times.”
In chapter 5 author continues with analyzing G's biography.

The third phase (1902–1912) was the period during which Gurdjieff sought not only to practically verify his theoretical knowledge about human psyche and hypnotism, but also to further develop it experimentally. He breaks down this phase into three intervals. First he spent, almost exclusively for four to five years, giving himself out as a “healer.” This is the least known period of Gurdjieff’s life. All he reveals is that it was at the beginning (1902) and midpoint (1904) of this period that he was struck twice by stray bullets. These events happened separately in Tibet and in the Chitral tunnel in the Caucasus, from which he recuperated in the same location at the outskirts of the Gobi Desert. In both cases, he was in the accompaniment of several physicians, a fact that is perhaps related to his “healer” occupation at the time.
During the “healer” period, Gurdjieff not only verified and further developed his theoretical knowledge about human psyche and hypnotism, he also came across new material that he had not even suspected to exist:

After two years of thorough theoretical study of this branch of science, when it became necessary to verify practically certain indispensable details, not as yet sufficiently elucidated by me in theory, of the mechanism of the functioning of man’s subconscious sphere, I began to give myself out to be a “healer” of all kinds of vices and to apply the results of my theoretical studies to them, affording them at the same time, of course, real relief. This continued to be my exclusive preoccupation and manifestation for four or five years in accordance with the essential oath imposed by my task, which consisted in rendering conscientious aid to sufferers, in never using my knowledge and practical power in that domain of science except for the sake of my investigations, and never for personal or egotistical ends, I not only arrived at unprecedented practical results without equal in our day, but also elucidated almost everything necessary for me. In a short time, I discovered many details which might contribute to the solution of the same cardinal question, as well as many secondary facts, the existence of which I had scarcely suspected. (H, 20)
G's oath about "never using again his hypnotic powers for personal and egotistical aims" and possible reference to "channeling":

It all ended thus, that I decided to take an oath before my own essence, in a state of mind known to me, never again to make use of this property of mine. I must also mention that, when I took the oath not to apply in life this inherency of mine, I made a reservation that my oath should not concern the application of it for scientific purposes. For instance, I was very much interested then, and even now my interest has not entirely vanished, in increasing the visibility of distant cosmic centers many thousand times through the use of a medium, and in the cure of cancer by the power of suggestion. (L:26)
Author's comment to the quote above:

...what Gurdjieff is stating here is, again, that of using hypnosis to access the psyche of others, in this case, indirectly, through the use of mediums subjected to hypnosis. The hypnotic technique provides Gurdjieff with a tool that allows him to see a thousand times more clearly the inner nature of other human beings, near or distant. Adam Crabtree (1985, 1993) provides ample evidence of how during the period from the time of Mesmer to early twentieth century, particularly during the period that would correspond to Gurdjieff’s lifetime and particularly around the time he was variously preoccupied as a “professional hypnotist,” there were highly prevalent uses of “mediums” in practices of hypnotism. “As more and more people became involved in these experiments,” Crabtree writes, “Spiritualism developed into a full-fledged religious movement. Its heros and heroines were the great mediums who could manifest the presence of spirits by producing extraordinary psychic phenomena. They were the ones who maintained a high profile before the public—who proved for anyone willing to see that the dead live on. (1985:69).
About the purpose of The Herald of Coming Good :

His purpose in Herald, in other words, was to “decrystallize” the unintended consequences of the “psychic factor,” i.e., the “organ Kundabuffer,” generated as a result of his twenty-year “artificial life,” and to begin a new phase of his teaching for which this booklet is a herald of its coming good. If we consider Herald “the tenth part of it,” that is, of the ten books comprising his series, it is supposed to serve a very important function. It is the vehicle that serves Gurdjieff to erase a part of the Yezidi circle drawn over the course of the previous First, Second, and most of Third Series around his readers. The purpose of the confessions therein is to decrystallize the illusions, and open the minds of the readers, in practical and nononsense terms to the influence they had previously been subjected.

In Herald Gurdjieff admits three important facts:

1. He had considered, all along, during his entire twenty-one-year “artificial life” at least, his works among his “circles” and Institute to be “objective scientific” observations and experimentations in human psyche;

2. He had “used” his followers not only in his earlier “circles” but also in the Institute to pursue his “objective scientific” observations and investigations, accompanied by the justification that such an effort on his part provided his subjects with the “only” possible way of learning about and benefiting from his knowledge and experience about the human inner life;

3. Not only he was aware, with much “remorse of conscience,” of his “automatic” hypnotic influence upon those who came to him and worked under his guidance, but also he asserts that he intentionally tried to nullify such “undesirable influences” by consciously and intentionally acting towards them in a critical and “fault-finding” manner. (The last admission, in other words and in effect, suggests that Gurdjieff would have not intentionally and consciously used his hypnotic powers in his scientific experimentations on his followers.)
About preconditions for hypnotic state:

“It cannot be denied that […] it is possible to bring them into such a psychic state by making them fix their gaze on a brilliant or bright object, but [this does not work on] all beings there, not by a long way, the reason being that although from their fixed gaze on a shining object there may proceed in their general blood circulation the change of the ‘filling-of-the-blood-vessels,’ nevertheless the chief factor for this must be the, on their part, intentional or automatic concentration of thought and feeling.

“And this latter can be obtained in them either from an intense expectation, or from that process proceeding in them which they express by the word ‘faith,’ or from the arising emotion of the sensation of fear of something about to happen, or finally from the functions already contained within the presence of the given being which they call ‘passions,’ as for instance ‘hate,’ ‘love,’ ‘sensuality,’ ‘curiosity,’ and so on and so forth.

“That is why in beings called there ‘hysterical,’ in whom there is lost temporarily or forever the possibility of concentration of ‘thought’ and ‘feeling,’ it is impossible by means of fixing their gaze upon a shining object to obtain in their blood circulation the change of the difference of the ‘filling of-blood-vessels,’ and hence it is also impossible to obtain in them this said hypnotic state.” (B:580; emphases in bold added)

The above passages are of singular significance for this study. Here Gurdjieff lays out the basic conditions necessary for the arousal of the hypnotic state. These conditions are worth examining in summary and further detail: 1) Willingness of the subject to be subjected to an attraction; 2) Concentrated direction/distraction of attention toward an object as a result of emotional impulses such as: intense expectation, faith, fear, or passions (such as hate, love, sensuality, and curiosity); 3) Sufficiently long and persistent, intentional or automatic, concentration of thought and feeling on the object.
Conclusion:

Gurdjieff himself admitted to having been deeply immersed in the science and practice of hypnotism. He admitted to having been a “professional hypnotist” during a crucial period of his life. He confessed to having misused such skills for personal desires during that period, and that he took an oath not to repeat it. He recognized the legitimacy of using, and his right to use, hypnotism for “scientific purposes.” He acknowledged using it on theosophists and others as his “guinea pigs.” He admitted experimenting on his pupils in the Institute, during twenty-one “artificial” years of his life, as objects of his “scientific observations and investigations.” And he conceded having, unintentionally, exerted hypnotic influence on his pupils, and sought ways to neutralize such “undesirable” influences on his part. These Gurdjieff himself explicitly admitted.

What this study proposes in addition to the above, however, is that Gurdjieff also left sufficient clues in his own writings that his writings themselves were consciously, intentionally, and systematically intended to continue his interest in, research on, and practice of, hypnotism. Gurdjieff did not stop developing and practicing his hypnotic skills beyond his “professional-hypnotist” sojourns; he in fact never stopped being a “professional hypnotist” throughout his mature life. He instead sought to further develop and creatively practice this, his “technical specialization.”
Why did Gurdjieff, in pursuit of awakening humanity from the hypnotic trance and prison of mechanical life, consciously, intentionally, and systematically subject his pupils and readers to the Yezidi circle of his hypnotic influence, especially through his writings? And why did he leave, widely in the texture of his writings, more or less explicit information regarding his knowledge and practice of hypnotism such that they could aid those subjected to his hypnotic spell to get out of his Yezidi circle?

Gurdjieff’s scattering and/or apparent withholding of information about his life and teaching were not merely due to a concern for pedagogical correctness but elaborate and systematic efforts to raise and spread deep and obsessive curiosities among his readers and followers about his life and teaching. Fragmenting information about his life and teaching provided the most fertile emotional conditions for effecting and spreading—during his lifetime and into his posterity—the hypnotic influence of his life and teaching in his readers’ subconscious minds. It assured never-ending “searches after the truth” of his life and teaching and continual, lifelong and world-wide, gazes of generations of interested readers on the shiny pages of his thrice-to-be-read “Ten Books in Three Series.” For the “crystallisation and decrystallisation of those psychic factors” that he intended to engender, after all, “a comparatively lengthy period” was necessary (H:82).

Gurdjieff himself claimed in Herald, as substantiated in the foregoing study, that not only during the period prior to the establishment of his Institute for the Harmonious Development of Man, but also following it during a twenty-one year period of “artificial life” that he had imposed on himself (ca. 1911–1932), he practiced hypnotism on his pupils without their knowledge. He goes out of his way in Herald to also altruistically insist that his “scientific” observations and experimentations as such were meant for the good of those subjected to his hypnotism and of humanity at large. In this sense, strictly speaking, Gurdjieff’s teaching practice during the aforementioned periods of his life would be of the “black magical” variety, based on the definition he himself offers via Ouspensky (1949:227).

However, it is also indubitable that Gurdjieff went out of his way in Herald, explicitly and clearly, to confess and acknowledge to the facts of such uses of hypnosis in his teaching. Besides, in his three series of writings, Gurdjieff left, easily accessible or not, ample and significant information and clues about his lifelong interest in and practice of hypnotism as part of his teaching. As the foregoing study has shown, it is simply impossible to deny that Gurdjieff made clear, despite his mythical, cryptic and at times convoluted language in his writing, that he used his writings as an hypnotic conduit for the transmission of his teaching and life’s story to his posterity.
However, the question remains as to why did Gurdjieff do that? [...]
I think Gurdjieff’s response would be that it is not sufficient just to “know” what hypnotism is and how it works in order to rid humanity from the negative consequences of the “organ Kundabuffer”; one must understand it, and this requires the attention of more than one epistemic center in the human organism. It requires experiential learning using all centers since, ultimately, to wake-up requires achieving an “all-centers-awake” state.
However, this does not mean that one may not, at the same time, fall under the influence of other kinds of hypnotic conditioning while pursuing the task of “awakening” oneself. Gurdjieff confronted a cosmically inherited, disharmonized organic life on Earth characterized by human mechanicalness, sleep, imprisonment, and inner slavery. In his view, humanity is already under the hypnotic influence of ordinary life in the first place. It is not a question of hypnotizing awakened human beings, but that of confronting a humanity deeply ingrained already in the trance of life. To escape, Gurdjieff said, one must first realize that one is in prison. But how best can such a shocking realization be achieved amid a hypnotic state of mind?

To address only the thinking center in educating an already hypnotized humanity would be futile in Gurdjieff’s view, since the whole organism is already conditioned by forces that resist such awakening. To awaken the whole organism, not just the thinking but also the feeling centers of the human organism as well as its everyday sensibilities about himself or herself and the world lived should be simultaneously targeted. Besides, for Gurdjieff, humanity cannot be liberated from one influence without the danger of falling under another influence. For him it is a question of how to splash from the flow of the river of the mechanical Life into the flow of the river of “Work” on oneself in pursuit of conscious and intentional selfperfection to serve cosmic purposes. It is a question of freeing oneself from subjugation to the mechanical laws of Earthly life in order to fall under the cosmic and divine laws originating in the Sun Absolute.

Therefore, while Gurdjieff’s hypnotic writings on the surface claim to aim at helping humanity to be liberated from all hypnotic influences “whatsoever,” he ends up paradoxically resorting to the hypnotic influence of his life and teaching to accomplish his goals.

The problem with the remedy offered by Gurdjieff through his teaching and particularly via his writings—that is, of installing an automatic organ of awakening in the organism from without through the teacher’s hypnotic influence—is that in this pursuit also, as in the case of the “organ Kundabuffer” and its consequences, the externally induced modality of hypnotic influence still prevails, and “maleficent consequences” resulting from such automatic conditioning or “liberation” can potentially continue to enslave the interested to the “abnormal conditions of life they themselves have established on Earth”—both outside and inside the “school.”
With one hand he hypnotizes them, with another he provides them with the necessary knowledges and methods regarding how to free themselves from his and any hypnotic influence. The extent of liberation from such influence, in other words, also depends on the readers’ own individual initiative, on their own conscious labors and intentional sufferings.
From his vantage point, some who become exposed may remain automatically infatuated with his life and teaching and perpetually remain in the same river banks of Work, not realizing the extent and depth of the influence they were subjected to. Others may become conscious of Gurdjieff ’s hypnotic influence but continue to remain satisfied as such. Others perhaps take a step further and question such influence and endure the intentional sufferings that may ensue from realizing the terror of their situation and seek a way out.
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
Thanks for the synopsis. I have not received the book yet but look forward to reading it!

I lean towards the material where Gurdjieff seems to ascribe the Kundabuffer to some higher power such as angelic forces/4d STS.

Why? Because in the brain science books, we learn how the brain learns to hide/rewrite history/information in order to sustain survival. In the extreme case, a psychopath constantly rewrites their own justifications in order to be "in the now".
Am I missing something there, or is it that a 3d STS reality results in a mindset conducive to STS wishful thinking (such as what our own minds do to lie to ourselves)?


I also find Gurdjieff's focus on hypnosis as a way to help those to wake up as misguided.
In the book "You Are the Placebo" by Joe Dispenza, they tested hypnosis and other books from the list confirm the idea of why some are so suggestible, while others are not. It seems that the highly suggestible people are those that lack a solid connection in the brain of internal vs external relation. In past experiments, we learn that when the corpus callosum is damaged or cut, the subject can be tricked to feel or act a certain way without knowing WHY.

So, how would knowing this change anything for those who are not easily hypnotized? Perhaps it just hints at the idea that some are natural authoritarian followers who possibly can not think/question for themselves and suggestion passes through the brain's almost non-existent "firewall" without scrutiny.
 

T.C.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Divide By Zero said:
I also find Gurdjieff's focus on hypnosis as a way to help those to wake up as misguided.
In the book "You Are the Placebo" by Joe Dispenza, they tested hypnosis and other books from the list confirm the idea of why some are so suggestible, while others are not. It seems that the highly suggestible people are those that lack a solid connection in the brain of internal vs external relation. In past experiments, we learn that when the corpus callosum is damaged or cut, the subject can be tricked to feel or act a certain way without knowing WHY.

So, how would knowing this change anything for those who are not easily hypnotized? Perhaps it just hints at the idea that some are natural authoritarian followers who possibly can not think/question for themselves and suggestion passes through the brain's almost non-existent "firewall" without scrutiny.
For me, reading the synopsis and tying it together with Raine and what I've read of Samenow so far, what stands out for me is our ability to trick others, manipulate others, and yes, to some extent or another, depending on how focused or invested they might be in us, hypnotise them to a certain degree. If through our thinking errors, we convince ourselves that something might be for the good of others (or even ourselves - "Hmm, just one doughnut isn't going to kill me" or "I've worked hard all month, I'm entitled to be grouchy and lose my temper with my friend, you know! I'm only human), then even Gurdjieff couldn't help the fact that the effect he had on others, rooted in his selfish desire to graduate or achieve man number 4 or whatever, was to hypnotise them - and he simply justified it to himself that it was okay; it was for their benefit, and the benefit of civilization as a whole... but really, to G.'s benefit.

Reading Samenow's so difficult for me because every other paragraph triggers painful self-remembering or flickering snapshots, lasting for seconds, or minutes, or me having to put down the book and smoke a cig. It really should be known here as, "Inside the Predator's Mind." The only argument (or buffer!) I have against the idea that, "It could have been written about me," is that the Predator gave us their mind, so it's not really me...

Pretty kundabuffer-destroying, anyway.
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
T.C. said:
Reading Samenow's so difficult for me because every other paragraph triggers painful self-remembering or flickering snapshots, lasting for seconds, or minutes, or me having to put down the book and smoke a cig. It really should be known here as, "Inside the Predator's Mind." The only argument (or buffer!) I have against the idea that, "It could have been written about me," is that the Predator gave us their mind, so it's not really me...

Pretty kundabuffer-destroying, anyway.
Agreed! However, when I think of the Predator giving us their mind, I think of survival/evolution. Survival requires fooling of the self, especially in hard conditions of the past. The brain adapted to fool itself to instill motivation and/or narration of a story in order to keep the organism going, in this case the human brain.

We're not much different than the animals in the lab tested by Pavlov, etc. I still doubt the idea of an outside force doing this directly. What if 4d STS is a possible future evolution instead of the cause of what we are (which can be explained by evolution and seeing how animals do similar things)?
 

T.C.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Divide By Zero said:
T.C. said:
Reading Samenow's so difficult for me because every other paragraph triggers painful self-remembering or flickering snapshots, lasting for seconds, or minutes, or me having to put down the book and smoke a cig. It really should be known here as, "Inside the Predator's Mind." The only argument (or buffer!) I have against the idea that, "It could have been written about me," is that the Predator gave us their mind, so it's not really me...

Pretty kundabuffer-destroying, anyway.
Agreed! However, when I think of the Predator giving us their mind, I think of survival/evolution. Survival requires fooling of the self, especially in hard conditions of the past. The brain adapted to fool itself to instill motivation and/or narration of a story in order to keep the organism going, in this case the human brain.
Yes and no. What you're saying is true - or I agree with it, anyway. But it's only one way of surviving.

Remember in the beginning of Anatomy of Violence. Raine compares two different cultures. One is murderously psychopathic, but the other one is not; instead, it is cooperative!

So we can't excuse our selfishness by saying, "It's for our own good and the good of others." It might very well be, if we base the "good" on the selfish gene theory. But that doesn't mean it's necessary.

We're not much different than the animals in the lab tested by Pavlov, etc. I still doubt the idea of an outside force doing this directly. What if 4d STS is a possible future evolution instead of the cause of what we are (which can be explained by evolution and seeing how animals do similar things)?
Reminds me of Laura's "Eclipsing of Realities" experience. I don't think it matters either way because it pretty much amounts to the same thing - past, present and future. It's still only one 'branch' of evolution. We could choose a different one.
 

kenlee

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
T.C. said:
For me, reading the synopsis and tying it together with Raine and what I've read of Samenow so far, what stands out for me is our ability to trick others, manipulate others, and yes, to some extent or another, depending on how focused or invested they might be in us, hypnotise them to a certain degree. If through our thinking errors, we convince ourselves that something might be for the good of others (or even ourselves - "Hmm, just one doughnut isn't going to kill me" or "I've worked hard all month, I'm entitled to be grouchy and lose my temper with my friend, you know! I'm only human), then even Gurdjieff couldn't help the fact that the effect he had on others, rooted in his selfish desire to graduate or achieve man number 4 or whatever, was to hypnotise them - and he simply justified it to himself that it was okay; it was for their benefit, and the benefit of civilization as a whole... but really, to G.'s benefit.
I could be wrong here but I don't think that Gurdjieff was fully aware of the distinction between the STS and STO realities or what Illion called the two different kinds of spiritualties where the material world in which we exist is the battleground through which the two forces play through us. The impression I got from the Gurdjieff people that I met is that anything "higher" is more spiritual (in terms of higher awareness) and at that point they lose all sense of there being two kinds of spiritualties . There is only higher awareness in their view and, by definition, it is "good."

Gurdjieff could have very well cross conceptualized the non material spiritual realities with the material realities of 4th density, seeing the apex point of the STS 4th density hierarchal pyramid structure as the 'Sun Absolute' or something like that (Actually I don't know) and kind of mixed them together in such a way that everything at all levels became "material" and there was nothing beyond it. Gurdjieff was often very certain of what he knew that approached absolute certainty and, possibly, this absolute certainty of his (without group study and feedback as it is with this group) is approaching the 4th density wishful thinking reality where the very nature of reality itself becomes what is 'believed for certain'. This doesn't mean that his heart wasn't in the right place it's just that ignorance and wishful thinking could have led him astray in certain instances. One thing that has always really bothered me is that Whitley Strieber was in the Gurdjieff Foundation for about 15 years or so and I wonder if this means something and says something about where the present G groups are headed, that is in the direction of navel gazing and seeking "higher awareness" without knowledge (which makes them ignorant of the distinction between the STS/STO realities). And just like these aliens of Whitley's who they perceive to be more highly aware then, from their perspective, it must be "good" to be like them. FWIW!
 
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