Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions

mnmulchi said:
I just had my first full blood donation on Saturday and it went well. I decanted a full pint and afterwards just had some slight swelling around the bottom of my bicep for awhile that was down by the next day.

I am going to begin my EDTA schedule tomorrow with a single 750mg tablet dose in the morning with ALA and then take my minerals/vitamins in the evening. I plan to continue this dosing daily based on how I feel until I am eligible to donate again (56 days).

I also finished The Iron Elephant today and thought it was very informative. One point that I am still wondering about that was mentioned multiple times throughout the book was the caution about vit. C supplementation. My multi-vitamin that I plan to take in the evenings with my EDTA protocol includes 250mg of vit. C. I will definitely not take the vitamins with a meal to prevent any extra absorbtion, though the book focused on how vit. C can make iron more mobile through the body (even stored iron it seems) and can also transport iron directly into the heart. Do you think it's enough of a concern to warrant holding off on the multi vitamin until I lower my iron some, just taking minerals in the meantime?

If you are on a ketogenic diet your vitamin C requirements are much lower than with the SAD. In that case you normally don't need to supplement vitamin C.

I reserve vitamin C for sickness, which I then take in very high doses for as long as it takes to clear the condition, and then I stop again.

On the other hand 250 mg is a low dose, you could just go ahead with that and see how your iron levels evolve.
 
nicklebleu said:
If you are on a ketogenic diet your vitamin C requirements are much lower than with the SAD. In that case you normally don't need to supplement vitamin C.

I reserve vitamin C for sickness, which I then take in very high doses for as long as it takes to clear the condition, and then I stop again.

On the other hand 250 mg is a low dose, you could just go ahead with that and see how your iron levels evolve.

Thanks nicklebleu, yeah it's tough to find a quality multi vitamin without vit. C. I will proceed with it in addition to the extra minerals for now and see how things go.
 
My mother got her second blood test results yesterday. The first one was on April 26, 2013.

Serum iron in April was 82.2 mg/dl and is now 93.5. TIBC was 359.4 in April, and is 350.7 mg/dl now. UIBC wasn't done in April (I did the calculation last time) but now they ran that even though it wasn't asked for and came out 242.8 mg/dl. Transferrin saturation was 352.0 in April and is now 344.0 mg/dl. Ferritin was 332.6 ng/ml in April and is now 21.0. So that really scarey Ferritin number is down very low now and can go back up some.

This was after 6 times of decanting and several rounds of EDTA. So she won't be decanting blood anymore for a while - she'll do 3 or 4 a year from now on (every 3 to 4 months) to keep in below 100 ng/ml and hopefully in the ideal range of 60 to 80.

Everything else looks good on the blood test as well. Her lipid panel improved and the triglycerides are even better now at 61.5 mg/dl whereas they were already excellent in April at 65.0. Also, her C-Reactive Protein improved from good to great - 6.0 mg/l in April to 3.9 mg/l now. Even though, she's been eating more carbs in the last several months than she was before, the marker for general inflammation is improved even more from just being on a ketogenic diet for another 7 months or so since the last blood test. Too bad the lab can't do CRP-HS test, but only has the regular C-Reactive Protein test. She ate some berries and fruits and more salads, etc. throughout the summer. Probably averaging around 20 to 30 grams of net carbs whereas before that she was averaging around 5 to 10.
 
Those are outstanding results. Just goes to show that age is not a barrier!
 
Laura said:
Those are outstanding results. Just goes to show that age is not a barrier!

Yeah, she turned 70 last month, so if she can get such great results so quickly....

The other thing that comes to mind is how many people with insane Ferritin numbers suffer or die prematurely with such a simple way of getting it into a safe range. Well, I guess like anything else related to health and diet - but this one is just too simple to fix. Really boggles the mind.
 
Psyche said:
That is great news SeekinTruth :thup:

Yeah, SeekinTruth, great results indeed! I've found as well that "Oh, I'm just getting old" just isn't acceptable. Ok, I'm 67 but as I keep experimenting with diet and supplements many of the so called symptoms of aging getting better or just disappear.

Mac
 
On 3rd day of EDTA combined with lots of water and heavy duty resistance exercises (sprinting, athletics, exercise to near fault). My body cooperates really nicely via detox outlets. Getting sleepy in the afternoons.

Have noticeably more energy, blood flow improved , now can work like crazy. My vision improved. Surprisingly I had more energy during athletics, where I expected weakness and all symptoms (heart palpitations, etc..) described on the bottle cover. No negative symptoms so far, although expecting them.

Worth to mention the awareness about increase of energy (working on turbo mode like in my youth), how slowly my body was filled with toxins during the years as I got more tired (but didn't know why, aarrgh), thinking got hazy, how slowly this metal toxicity brain-fog constricted all physiological functions. Experiencing the changes now, I feel like beating my head against the wall for not using EDTA 20 years ago!
 
lilies said:
On 3rd day of EDTA combined with lots of water and heavy duty resistance exercises (sprinting, athletics, exercise to near fault). My body cooperates really nicely via detox outlets. Getting sleepy in the afternoons.

Have noticeably more energy, blood flow improved , now can work like crazy. My vision improved. Surprisingly I had more energy during athletics, where I expected weakness and all symptoms (heart palpitations, etc..) described on the bottle cover. No negative symptoms so far, although expecting them.

Worth to mention the awareness about increase of energy (working on turbo mode like in my youth), how slowly my body was filled with toxins during the years as I got more tired (but didn't know why, aarrgh), thinking got hazy, how slowly this metal toxicity brain-fog constricted all physiological functions. Experiencing the changes now, I feel like beating my head against the wall for not using EDTA 20 years ago!

I'm not too sure that hard exercise while doing a heavy metal detox is a very good idea.
 
Mac said:
Psyche said:
That is great news SeekinTruth :thup:

Yeah, SeekinTruth, great results indeed! I've found as well that "Oh, I'm just getting old" just isn't acceptable. Ok, I'm 67 but as I keep experimenting with diet and supplements many of the so called symptoms of aging getting better or just disappear.

Mac
I'm very happy for the two of you, SeekinTruth and Mac. And it's good that as we fulfill years, assume more challenges and commitments, not less. Or so I think. And not talk about doing stupid things like a teen here, but to deprogram that become old be associated with dependent, weak and sick. Above the worst, deprogram mental senility mandate. The Work may permits be developed into a different grand adult human with lots of energy and capacity for action and education-teaching, perhaps as seen in a distant past. And a reason why that could generate changes (and there are many, probably) is because in The Work the relationship to linear time is different. Not taken as a mother, but as an illusion-that is real in 3 D sts- and enslaves us.
Thank you very much for being an example for others.
 
SeekinTruth said:
My mother got her second blood test results yesterday. The first one was on April 26, 2013.

...Ferritin was 332.6 ng/ml in April and is now 21.0...

:wow: Very well done!
 
Laura said:
lilies said:
On 3rd day of EDTA combined with lots of water and heavy duty resistance exercises (sprinting, athletics, exercise to near fault). My body cooperates really nicely via detox outlets. Getting sleepy in the afternoons.

Have noticeably more energy, blood flow improved , now can work like crazy. My vision improved. Surprisingly I had more energy during athletics, where I expected weakness and all symptoms (heart palpitations, etc..) described on the bottle cover. No negative symptoms so far, although expecting them.

Worth to mention the awareness about increase of energy (working on turbo mode like in my youth), how slowly my body was filled with toxins during the years as I got more tired (but didn't know why, aarrgh), thinking got hazy, how slowly this metal toxicity brain-fog constricted all physiological functions. Experiencing the changes now, I feel like beating my head against the wall for not using EDTA 20 years ago!

I'm not too sure that hard exercise while doing a heavy metal detox is a very good idea.
Right. It may be better to wait until the next day when EDTA already gone and your body conveniently remineralised.
 
Adding a bit of data
_http://news.ufl.edu/2001/09/26/vitiminc/

Too much vitamin C can cause ‘rust’ in the body, UF study shows


Published: September 26th, 2001

Category: Gender, Health, Research


GAINESVILLE, Fla. — If you have a bruise, a muscle sprain, an inflammatory disease or if you take iron supplements, exceeding 100 mg per day of vitamin C may be damaging to your body, according to a study by University of Florida researchers.

That’s because all of those conditions produce free iron, which reacts negatively with vitamin C in much the same way that the iron on bicycles and fences reacts with water and oxygen.

“You will rust inside, so to speak,” said Christiaan Leeuwenburgh, the senior author and an assistant professor in UF’s department of exercise and sport sciences.

In a study published this month in the journal Free Radical Biology and Medicine, several UF researchers worked with renowned vitamin C expert Barry Halliwell to test the effects of vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC, another water-soluble antioxidant) at the cellular level.

In this study, the researchers began with the hypothesis that vitamin C and NAC would speed the recovery of a muscle injury because of their anti-oxidant properties and ability to reach damaged cells quickly. Fourteen healthy men volunteered to have one of their arms injured by a machine that ruptured their bicep muscles and created swelling. Researchers then gave half of them a placebo and the other half a drink supplemented with about 700 mg of vitamin C and 800 mg of NAC.

“Initially, the vitamin C and NAC were given to prevent the injury, because we thought they’d have protective effects,” Leeuwenburgh said. “Instead, they were damaging.”

Leeuwenburgh attributes the damaging effects of the vitamin C and NAC to their reaction with iron in the body. Normally, iron is bound to proteins and enzymes and therefore can’t react with vitamin C and NAC. But when inflammation occurs — as it does in muscular injuries and a variety of diseases such as Alzheimer’s, arthritis and cardiovascular disease — the body releases more free iron, which is highly reactive to outside elements — in this case, vitamin C and NAC. Indeed, the researchers showed that there were increases in free iron following this type of exercise.

“Vitamin C isn’t bad, and neither is NAC, but by some mechanism in this situation there were some pro-oxidant effects of supplementation,” said April Childs, a graduate student in the department of exercise and sport sciences and the lead author of the study.

And although Leeuwenburgh says people who have taken vitamin C or NAC in the past shouldn’t worry too much about the new finding, he recommends caution in supplementing vitamin C in doses greater than 100 mg after injuries or disease condition characterized by increases in free iron.

“People should limit their vitamin C intake until we know more,” he said. “Everyone agrees that after 80 to 90 milligrams, about the recommended daily allowance, it goes out of your body since measurements show that white blood cells are saturated completely after this dose. You’d think that if it goes out of your body it isn’t harmful, but maybe the high transient levels do react in a negative way. There’s no benefit to taking more than the RDA, and it could actually harm you.”

Furthermore, he said, “Vitamin C is believed to prevent cancer, but instead it may be damaging. Studies performed in humans actually show that it may increase DNA damage.”

Because vitamin C and NAC in the body appear to react most negatively with iron, Leeuwenburgh said, those with inflammatory diseases and those who take more than the recommended daily allowance of iron should be particularly vigilant about limiting their vitamin C and NAC intake.

“If you’re taking more than the RDA of iron, you’re putting yourself at risk by taking more than the RDA of vitamin C or NAC at the same time,” Leeuwenburgh said. “Iron is very important in preventing anemia. So many people — particularly women – are supplementing, and the effects of supplementing iron and vitamin C for long periods have not been adequately studied. Therefore, to supplement vitamin C and iron together may be damaging. Further studies are required to fully understand the antioxidant and pro-oxidant nature of vitamin C.”

In short, it may be wise to be cautious of vit C and NAC if you have too much free iron floating around your system (i.e. from physical injuries/strenuous workouts etc). Perhaps EDTA would be better used in these situations?
 
I've caught up with the last 25 pages of this thread and noticed that some of the mineral supplements listed didn't have boron in the ingredients. From the point of view of someone who's had problems with re-occurring cramping in my legs, taken boron has helped a lot. I think it may be important to make sure it's included as it is needed by the parathyroid.

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parathyroid_gland
Physiology[edit]

The major function of the parathyroid glands is to maintain the body's calcium level within a very narrow range, so that the nervous and muscular systems can function properly.

Parathyroid hormone (PTH, also known as parathormone) is a small protein that takes part in the control of calcium and phosphate homeostasis, as well as bone physiology. Parathyroid hormone has effects antagonistic to those of calcitonin.

Calcium

PTH increases blood calcium levels by stimulating osteoclasts to break down bone and release calcium. PTH also increases gastrointestinal calcium absorption by activating vitamin D, and promotes calcium conservation (reabsorption) by the kidneys.

Phosphate

PTH is the major regulator of serum phosphate concentrations via actions on the kidney. It is an inhibitor of proximal and also distal tubular reabsorption of phosphorus.

Through activation of Vitamin D the absorption of Phosphate is increased.

_http://www.bio-genesis.com/productpages/osteogenesis-es/Boron.pdf
Effect of dietary boron on mineral, estrogen, and
testosterone metabolism in
postmenopausal women

ABSTRACT
A study was done to examine the effects of aluminum,
magnesium, and boron on major mineral metabolism in
postmenopausal women. This communication describes
some of the effects of dietary boron on 12 women be
tween the ages of 48 and 82 housed in a metabolic unit.
A boron supplement of 3 mg/day markedly affected sever
al indices of mineral metabolism of seven women con
suming a low-magnesium diet and five women consuming
a diet adequate in magnesium; the women had consumed
a conventional diet supplying about 0,25 mg boron/day
for 119 days. Boron supplementation markedly reduced
the urinary excretion of calcium and magnesium; the
depression seemed more marked when dietary magne
sium was low. Boron supplementation depressed the uri
nary excretion of phosphorus by the low-magnesium, but
not by the adequate-magnesium, women. Boron supple
mentation markedly elevated the serum concentrations
of 17f3-estradiol and testosterone; the elevation seemed
more marked when dietary magnesium was low.
Neither
high dietary aluminum (1000 mg/day) nor an interac
tion between boron and aluminum affected the variables
presented. The findings suggest that supplementation of a
low-boron diet with an amount of boron commonly found
in diets high in fruits and vegetables induces changes
in postmenopausal women consistent with the preven
tion of calcium loss and bone demineralization.-
NIELSEN, F. H.; HUNT, C. D.; MULLEN, L. M.; HUNT,
J. R. Effect of dietary boron on mineral, estrogen, and
testosterone metabolism in postmenopausal women.
FASEB]. 1: 394-397; 1987.
 
EDTA + exercise

The idea is to support chelation with increased blood flow and enhanced metabolism created by exercise. Exercise with running, where profuse sweating is accomplished does chelation by default, causes heavy loss of minerals and precious nutrients from the body. "Serious" or "heavy" is subjective especially after the age of 40: the amount of muscle work done may be well below the amount of what is considered as exercise in gyms for the age-group of 20-30 years. If there is an added chelation-agent, the hope is to break up more plaque covering the walls of blood vessels. Feeling of improvement of circulation is perceptible.

EFFECT OF EDTA CHELATION AND
SUPPORTIVE MULTIVITAMIN/TRACE MINERAL
SUPPLEMENTATION WITH AND WITHOUT
PHYSICAL ACTIVITY UPON SYSTOLIC BLOOD PRESSURE
Wussow, O.G., M.S~, Rudolph, C.J., Ph.D., D.O.
McDonagh, E.W., 0.06 and Cheraskin, E., M.D., D.M.D.
http://www.mcdonaghmed.com/downloads/paper17.pdf
 

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