Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT): General information and discussion of Home Units

[nature]

Not wearing a mask in the home chamber will significantly decrease the amount of oxygen you're getting in. It misses the entire point of the therapy - to get as much oxygen into the body under pressure. I don't think this depends on what kind of home chamber you get. If you think of the oxygen as water, we're talking about the difference between a firehose and rainfall. The mask allows a firehose of oxygen to enter the body. Not wearing a mask and you'll likely just be getting a sprinkling of rainfall (of oxygen) into the body. Get a mask, and a rebreather, which gives the best results. There has already been some discussion on this in the thread if you read through it, or use the search term 'rebreather'.

I know the rebreather, I used it.
Breathing more oxygen in a rebreather brings more oxygen in the lungs but not more in the cells. The latter phenomenon is brought by the Bohr effect.
Outside a chamber, if you breath oxygen from a bottle and with the rebreather mask: you'll not get more oxygen in your cells (unless you have some lung desease). At the contrary, if you breath more CO2, you'll get more O2 in your cells. It's the Bohr effect, it's known since a century. Breathing devices like Samozdrav, Frolov, and other similar devices are based on this principle: you rebreath the carbone dioxide CO2 you just exhaled, in order to increase your CO2 intake
Too much O2 in the lungs is even toxic, that's why you have to remove your mask every 15-20 min for 5 min in your hbot chamber.
In the hbot chamber, you won't lack oxygen, as it flows permanently in the chamber since the begining to the end of session. Thus, not wearing the mask brings to you largely enough O2. With the hyper-pression, you get the maximun O2 that can enter your blood vessels.
I mentioned carbogen (95% o2 + 5% CO2 - in comparison, CO2 is only 0.03 % in air), wich has been proven effective in various tissu ischemia

- The Bohr effect is also the principle of Dr Buteyko's technique (russian physiologist, and practicing doctor in the 50-60 -70's)
- Dr Rakhimov explains it in english: Bohr Effect Oxygen Release Explained in 5 Min : Healthy vs. Sick People
- There have been articles from Dr Sircus: drsircus.com/carbon-dioxide/carbon-dioxide-inhalation-therapy/
- and from Dr MercolaSircus: articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2024/01/27/carbon-dioxide.aspx?ui=eb341dd7f242d17d66c095b9b24528a57ce0e94bd6d4a9054453863295b6574d&sd=20210623&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20240127&foDate=false&mid=DM1523189&rid=2029873756

- for francophones: fr.sott.net/article/43122-Absorber-plus-de-CO2-contribue-a-une-meilleure-sante-ou-la-biologie-du-dioxyde-de-carbone

 

[Ant22]

I have a 1.3 Macy Pan chamber and it definitely works. I've done mostly 1 hour sessions, but also 1.5 hour sessions, with 30 min oxygen/5 min off, 30 min on/5 min off, 20 min on, then exit. I've done well over 250 sessions by now, and I think there are still benefits to be derived. It all depends on the state of the body.

The first 90 sessions are kinda like the first few months of doing EE - lots of clearing up going on. If you have a 90 session limit, I'd suggest trying out 1.5 hr sessions if you can. I'd say it's definitely worth it, I wouldn't wait around for a different 1.5 chamber to show up. Especially taking the decent price into account.

Hi Ant22,
It sounds like a good deal and as @iamthatis says, you can perhaps opt for longer sessions. Below is a break down of the difference into pressure hours in reference to the protocol in Israel where they use a 2atm HBOT.

I'm looking through my notes and bookmarks but I can't find the reference to support this information: I remember reading that HBOT becomes anti-bacterial/anti-viral starting at 1.5 and up. Maybe another member could chime in regarding this.

Huge thank you for your replies and help everyone, it really helped me make a decision I opted for 50 sessions with an option to top up to 90 at the same discounted price, or another number as needed. The owner is happy to be flexible, so I'm really lucky here.

I had my first session a few days ago and to be honest, I nearly asked to stop it before the pressure even reached 1.1 ATA. I developed a really severe ear ache shortly after the session started, it felt as if someone was poking needles into my ear and I almost couldn't bear it. I told the person operating I waned to stop, and she closed the flow for a few minutes to see it helped. It did, but it was probably a combo of the pause in the pressure increasing and the fact that I was pressing my ear quite tightly, applying a lot of pressure to the area around it, nearly closing the ear entrance. When the chamber reached 1.3 ATA I slowly released the pressure on my ear and it wasn't hurting anymore. I was able to last the full hour. But annoyingly, the pain returned even stronger wwhen the pressure started to go down at the end of the session.

I was really gutted and disappointed by it but I suspect this was caused by a nasty flu-like bug that lasted over two weeks that I have only recently recovered from (some symptoms still linger around). It came with a really bad chest infection, a runny nose, and fever. My sinuses were very badly affected, not only with a running nose, I also felt a lot of pressure in my head, I could feel mucus and heaviness inside.

I flew to Poland during the early days of the infection and me ears were hurting too, much more than normally during flights, so I'm hoping the pain in the HBOT chamber was a result of the infection still being around. The fever and running nose had only stopped a few short days before the session, I guess it's possible not all symptoms had cleared properly.

Throughout the next day I felt annoying and loud clicking in my ear whenever I swallowed. It's been a few days now, and although the clicking has nearly disappeared I noticed I still wake up with a blocked nose, I need to blow it in the morning, although it disappears during the day. This morning it was so intense that I thought the running nose had returned, which would have been strange since I'd expect to have antibodies having recently recovered. But it cleared by noon.

That said, I have actually suspected I had a sinuses issue for a long while but it was never severe enough for me to seek any help. It was just overall heaviness in my head, occasional mucus in my nose, and difficulty breathing when I didn't have a standard running nose. I'm hoping HBOT will help address that, hopefully with less pain than during the first session, and in the meantime I arranged or my sessions to re-start in late March to give my sinuses some time to heal, and possibly also seek medical help for deep sinuses blockage. I was tempted to just soldier on and keep going with the sessions but as I'll have to leave here for two weeks I figured I may as well postpone starting. It was said in this thread that the sessions would be done very close together so it will probably be more effective to pause.

Once again, thank you everyone for your help, I'm still catching up with this thread, and if I have something new to report I'll post again.

 

[iamthatis]

Huge thank you for your replies and help everyone, it really helped me make a decision I opted for 50 sessions with an option to top up to 90 at the same discounted price, or another number as needed. The owner is happy to be flexible, so I'm really lucky here.

I had my first session a few days ago and to be honest, I nearly asked to stop it before the pressure even reached 1.1 ATA. I developed a really severe ear ache shortly after the session started, it felt as if someone was poking needles into my ear and I almost couldn't bear it. I told the person operating I waned to stop, and she closed the flow for a few minutes to see it helped. It did, but it was probably a combo of the pause in the pressure increasing and the fact that I was pressing my ear quite tightly, applying a lot of pressure to the area around it, nearly closing the ear entrance. When the chamber reached 1.3 ATA I slowly released the pressure on my ear and it wasn't hurting anymore. I was able to last the full hour. But annoyingly, the pain returned even stronger wwhen the pressure started to go down at the end of the session.

I was really gutted and disappointed by it but I suspect this was caused by a nasty flu-like bug that lasted over two weeks that I have only recently recovered from (some symptoms still linger around). It came with a really bad chest infection, a runny nose, and fever. My sinuses were very badly affected, not only with a running nose, I also felt a lot of pressure in my head, I could feel mucus and heaviness inside.

I flew to Poland during the early days of the infection and me ears were hurting too, much more than normally during flights, so I'm hoping the pain in the HBOT chamber was a result of the infection still being around. The fever and running nose had only stopped a few short days before the session, I guess it's possible not all symptoms had cleared properly.

Throughout the next day I felt annoying and loud clicking in my ear whenever I swallowed. It's been a few days now, and although the clicking has nearly disappeared I noticed I still wake up with a blocked nose, I need to blow it in the morning, although it disappears during the day. This morning it was so intense that I thought the running nose had returned, which would have been strange since I'd expect to have antibodies having recently recovered. But it cleared by noon.

That said, I have actually suspected I had a sinuses issue for a long while but it was never severe enough for me to seek any help. It was just overall heaviness in my head, occasional mucus in my nose, and difficulty breathing when I didn't have a standard running nose. I'm hoping HBOT will help address that, hopefully with less pain than during the first session, and in the meantime I arranged or my sessions to re-start in late March to give my sinuses some time to heal, and possibly also seek medical help for deep sinuses blockage. I was tempted to just soldier on and keep going with the sessions but as I'll have to leave here for two weeks I figured I may as well postpone starting. It was said in this thread that the sessions would be done very close together so it will probably be more effective to pause.

Once again, thank you everyone for your help, I'm still catching up with this thread, and if I have something new to report I'll post again.

Yeah, it's an intense experience at first for sure. It gets easier with time, though. Good to hear you stuck with it.

Were you doing any of the ear-clearing exercises? If not, look up the Valsalva maneuver, where you plug your nose, and then blow gently against your plugged nose. It should clear your ears. Do it gently, tho. Others have advised to chew gum, or just yawn regularly. For me yawning regularly works just fine.

As for sinuses, yeah it may be you're clearing things out. There's some advice in this session you could try:

July 8, 1995

A: How about the hula hoop dance with green peppers stuck up your nose! [Hilarious laughter]

Just kidding. Eating some hot peppers did help my friend, tho, when he had a sinus migraine due to elevation changes while traveling.

 

[iamthatis]

I know the rebreather, I used it.
Breathing more oxygen in a rebreather brings more oxygen in the lungs but not more in the cells. The latter phenomenon is brought by the Bohr effect.
Outside a chamber, if you breath oxygen from a bottle and with the rebreather mask: you'll not get more oxygen in your cells (unless you have some lung desease). At the contrary, if you breath more CO2, you'll get more O2 in your cells. It's the Bohr effect, it's known since a century. Breathing devices like Samozdrav, Frolov, and other similar devices are based on this principle: you rebreath the carbone dioxide CO2 you just exhaled, in order to increase your CO2 intake
Too much O2 in the lungs is even toxic, that's why you have to remove your mask every 15-20 min for 5 min in your hbot chamber.

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Please watch Dr. Shai Efrati's videos (and the others) near the beginning of the thread to find out the actual reason why you remove your mask every 15-20 min.

How much of the thread have you read? It seems to me like you're taking what you know about C02 and then trying to apply it to HBOT therapy model. (I have a samozdrav, and I'm familiar with the benefits of C02 for oxygen absorption).

I see no reason to change the therapy model used in this thread, which has already been shown to do some incredible things for the members here, as well as cure the general public of stroke-induced paralyses and a whole host of other serious injuries.

On the other hand, maybe you're right. There are some chambers that are multi-person chambers, where O2 is pumped in and no one wears masks. But I don't think that's because they are trying to increase the level of C02 in the chamber. I've never seen that anywhere in any of the HBOT stuff I've looked at... 'make sure you get enough c02 while in the chamber'. I've only seen the opposite - get lots of oxygen into you, under pressure.

So I dunno, for me to take your advice and not use a mask in the chamber, you'd have to provide some hard evidence for your proposed modality being a viable way of boosting the therapy beyond what we're already doing.

 

[nature]

I see no reason to change the therapy model used in this thread, which has already been shown to do some incredible things for the members here.

I didn't say to change therapy model. I answered to a member who asked about the idea of using Samozdrav into a HBOT chamber.

On the other hand, maybe you're right. There are some chambers that are multi-person chambers, where O2 is pumped in and no one wears masks. But I don't think that's because they are trying to increase the level of C02 in the chamber.

I didn't say that one should remove the mask in order to increase CO2 level. Breathing in a chamber full of O2 doesn't increase CO2. When you expire, CO2 spreads in the chamber then goes outside (as the O2-enriched air comes in constantly into the chamber).
I said that it's not necessary to use a mask in a chamber as you anyways inhale lots of oxygen. And that even if you inhale more O2 than that (with a rebreather mask, so) you won't get more oxygen in your blood (you'll have more in your lungs, not in your cells - Bohr effect). In a chamber, with or without mask, you don't increase inhaled CO2.

So I dunno, for me to take your advice and not use a mask in the chamber, you'd have to provide some hard evidence for your proposed modality being a viable way of boosting the therapy beyond what we're already doing.

You can use the pulse oxymeter during a HBOT session, it's a cheap and little device one puts on a finger and the oxygen rate appears on the little screen. You'll see that it doesn't decrease when you don't use the mask. Why do you think HBOT centers don't use masks in monoplace chambers? In multiplace chambers, it's used because people would not accept to inhale the air exhaled by others in a confined place.
If one feels more comfortable with a mask, so be it. There is not physiological reason, but if the person prefer to use it, there is no objection. In a monoplace chamber, in hyperbaric centers, if the patient wants to use a mask, the doctor gives him one.

 

[ImaPrototype]

I didn't say to change therapy model. I answered to a member who asked about the idea of using Samozdrav into a HBOT chamber.


I didn't say that one should remove the mask in order to increase CO2 level. Breathing in a chamber full of O2 doesn't increase CO2. When you expire, CO2 spreads in the chamber then goes outside (as the O2-enriched air comes in constantly into the chamber).

you're assuming it based on volume in - volume out but that's too simple

I said that it's not necessary to use a mask in a chamber as you anyways inhale lots of oxygen. And that even if you inhale more O2 than that (with a rebreather mask, so) you won't get more oxygen in your blood (you'll have more in your lungs, not in your cells - Bohr effect). In a chamber, with or without mask, you don't increase inhaled CO2.


You can use the pulse oxymeter during a HBOT session, it's a cheap and little device one puts on a finger and the oxygen rate appears on the little screen. You'll see that it doesn't decrease when you don't use the mask

oxymeters measure not the "oxygen rate" but the level of o2 carrying hemoglobins in blood which in turn has an inverse relationship with "free oxygen" in blood, that's the Bohr effect

. Why do you think HBOT centers don't use masks in monoplace chambers?

they do use a mask I've seen it dozens of times even on ridiculous pressures like ~3ata

 

[nature]

you're assuming it based on volume in - volume out but that's too simple

What do you mean? can you elaborate?

oxymeters measure not the "oxygen rate" but the level of o2 carrying hemoglobins in blood which in turn has an inverse relationship with "free oxygen" in blood, that's the Bohr effect

Yes, pulse oxymeter mesures O2 attached to hemoglobin. If you mesure it with mask, then without mask, it remains the same.

In HBOT, free oxygen increases thanks to hyperpression which solubilizes O2 coming from lungs. Bohr effect is the increase of O2 in blood (plasma) thanks to many processes like vasodilation, like the hemoglobin ability to release its O2 molecules in organs, in presence of enough CO2. What do you mean by inverse relationship? The more O2 on Hb, the less O2 in plasma? this is not Bohr effect.
Under hyperpression, like in hbot, the Hb-O2 increases slightly, the affinity of O2 for Hb is yet very high in ambiant air, in normal individuals. The surplus O2 brought by hyperpression is dissolved O2. There is no inverse relationchip here. Same in Bohr effect outside an hbot: it's not inverse. See the Samozdrav's science.

they do use a mask I've seen it dozens of times even on ridiculous pressures like ~3ata

ridiculous pressure?
The primum protocol is not mandatory mask in monoplace chamber. Did you read the litterature on hbot?There are also centers where they don't use it systematically. We see masks more often used because it makes so medical looking, and also because it reassures patients. Among all the readings I've done on hbot, I didn't see a scientific reason to use mandatory masks in monoplace chamber, it is not prohibited neither. Again, I didn't say it's better not using mask. I say it changes nothing. If you prefer wearing it, it's not a problem.

 

[ImaPrototype]

What do you mean? can you elaborate?

in one word: nitrogen
because when you concentrate oxygen nitrogen is the byproduct that the exhaust of the concentrator pumps out, and that can accumulate in the ambient air get into the chamber through the compressor, nitrogen causes diver sickness

Yes, pulse oxymeter mesures O2 attached to hemoglobin. If you mesure it with mask, then without mask, it remains the same.
In HBOT, free oxygen increases thanks to hyperpression which solubilizes O2 coming from lungs. Bohr effect is the increase of O2 in blood (plasma) thanks to many processes like vasodilation, like the hemoglobin ability to release its O2 molecules in organs, in presence of enough CO2. What do you mean by inverse relationship? The more O2 on Hb, the less O2 in plasma? this is not Bohr effect.

that's called homeostasis and is a normal physiological function

say you decrease input of oxygen, body senses it and react accordingly through it's own mechanisms, some of which are regulating hemoglobins

ridiculous pressure?
The primum protocol is not mandatory mask in monoplace chamber. Did you read the litterature on hbot?There are also centers where they don't use it systematically. We see masks more often used because it makes so medical looking, and also because it reassures patients.

i was not talking about some "primum protocol" but only my observations

Among all the readings I've done on hbot, I didn't see a scientific reason to use mandatory masks in monoplace chamber, it is not prohibited neither. Again, I didn't say it's better not using mask. I say it changes nothing. If you prefer wearing it, it's not a problem.

actually it is a problem because as mentioned above diver sickness is a risk and is a kind of brain damage as you can read in hbot literature

 

[ImaPrototype]

i may be exaggerating the nitrogen problem have not really calculated anything but I'd rather err on the side of safety

 

[nature]

I invite you to read the documentation I gave by links I provided in my previous posts.

 

[broken.english]

i may be exaggerating the nitrogen problem have not really calculated anything but I'd rather err on the side of safety

One of our members is a professional diver. He basically says that one should not hold one's breath during decompression.

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT): General information and discussion of Home Units

Hi, So as I understand for HBOT 2 bar absolute pressure or 1 bar relative pressure is what is the most beneficial? Right?

cassiopaea.org

 

[Z...]

i may be exaggerating the nitrogen problem have not really calculated anything but I'd rather err on the side of safety

I think this is negligible or insignificant

 

[Z...]

One of our members is a professional diver. He basically says that one should not hold one's breath during decompression.

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT): General information and discussion of Home Units

Hi, So as I understand for HBOT 2 bar absolute pressure or 1 bar relative pressure is what is the most beneficial? Right?

cassiopaea.org

Most people here don’t go over 1.5 ATA

 

[ImaPrototype]

I invite you to read the documentation I gave by links I provided in my previous posts.

I will conduct a simulation of fluid dynamics to verify all statements in the thread also and send you a report, is that good enough sir?

I think this is negligible or insignificant

prolly but
"brainz is good we like having brainz"

 

[RedFox]

I had my first session a few days ago and to be honest, I nearly asked to stop it before the pressure even reached 1.1 ATA. I developed a really severe ear ache shortly after the session started, it felt as if someone was poking needles into my ear and I almost couldn't bear it. I told the person operating I waned to stop, and she closed the flow for a few minutes to see it helped. It did, but it was probably a combo of the pause in the pressure increasing and the fact that I was pressing my ear quite tightly, applying a lot of pressure to the area around it, nearly closing the ear entrance. When the chamber reached 1.3 ATA I slowly released the pressure on my ear and it wasn't hurting anymore. I was able to last the full hour. But annoyingly, the pain returned even stronger wwhen the pressure started to go down at the end of the session.

I was really gutted and disappointed by it but I suspect this was caused by a nasty flu-like bug that lasted over two weeks that I have only recently recovered from (some symptoms still linger around). It came with a really bad chest infection, a runny nose, and fever. My sinuses were very badly affected, not only with a running nose, I also felt a lot of pressure in my head, I could feel mucus and heaviness inside.

For what it's worth, I was about 90 sessions in when I started getting a mild cold - and experienced exactly the same symptoms as yourself. So best wait until the cold is completely gone before continuing.