Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT): General information and discussion of Home Units
- Thread starter Pierre
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dredger
The Living Force
Yes, higher is better, and i assume, faster too. The question was asked by Pierre in the last August session :
Note that if you are in bad health condition, it's advised to start with whether low ATA pressure or short sessions, or a mix of both, then raise gradually up to 1h session (under 1,5 or 2 ATA if you can afford a 2 ATA devices, or more if you go through a professional device in hospitals or dedicated centers)
The right ATA pressure vs a pathology/illness/...
To come back to ATA pressure ... which subject is haunting my thoughts since almost the begining of this thread.
It's assumed, by logic, that more pressure is better, like a faster car will allow you to arrive sooner at the destination. So less hours under 2 ATA than under 1,5 ATA would be needed to repair one thing. So 2 ATA being the more beneficial, yes, among the device you can buy as an individual, because the 2,5 or 3 ATA ones you can find in hospitals is probably even better (faster)
But the question Pierre asked is about qualitative benefits does not much relate to "speed of recovery", but also is focussed on comparing 1,5 ATA to 2 ATA, but what about 2 ATA vs 2,5 ATA (and son on) ? Thus to me question remains open, or half-answered.
One information which is difficult to figure out is if, for some type of pathologies (than can be cured via HBOT protocol), there's a minimum of ATA pressure to reach. I mean, if someone has 10 pathologies (maybe pathology is not the good term but let's say things that could be repaired via HBOT, or at least improved), maybe that 9 of them will start to "repair/improve" while doing session under 1,5 ATA, but the 10th one will not improve at all because to have a beneficial effect against this 10th pathology, you need to reach ... let's say 1,8 ATA, or 2,3 ATA ... dunno (?).
I already tried to figure out how to translate this in a good pertinent question to the C's, but failed to. So far i had in mind a series of questions that would depend on the previous response. The last information we received from them is the one posted above and that yes, 2 ATA is "better" (or let's say more efficient) than 1,5 ATA. There's is also this information, posted by @Pecha in July in this thread, about a bacteriostatic effect that would inhibit bacterial growth, and that it only happen starting at 1,5 ATA, not lower. Is there any other kind of effect that would happen at higher ATA pressure that would be "necessary" to cure some types of pathologies ? (that can be cured via HBOT so ...)
I have a friend (in fact more than one) who has the lyme disease. The few i read about is that it's a nasty thing, and i suspect that lyme disease, i mean the root cause, not the symptoms, could only be healed under a certain pressure, like more than 2 ATA - the problem is that we can't start to ask the C's as many question as existing pathologies about what would be the right ATA pressure for XXX ... Maybe a good question ... which remains to formulate, would be what would be the minimum ATA pressure that would benefit to heal, even a little bit, 100% of pahologies that a human can have and that can be healed or improved using HBOT (last part of the question is important). Maybe the answer is 5 ATA but it only concerns 1 or 2 pathologies among thousands. Or the same question but reduce from 100% to 95%.
If someone at Le Chateau could formulate one question or a couple of questions and ask the C's at next session, that would probably be interresting to read their response. It's a difficult topic to answer by ourselves. Who would ever make a study and find the right participants to compare the difference of improvement between a group that would benefit mild pressure (let's say 1,5 ATA) to higher pressure (let's say 2,5 ATA), I doubt we'll ever find such a study.
I'm always use Transfer Wise (now Wise) for international transfer. They are really efficient and cost effective. Perhaps, that's something you can look into in the future.
broken.english
Jedi Council Member
It depends whom you ask.
Some HBOT centers are going well above 2 bar. For example this one:
Expert Hyperbaric Oxygen Chamber Therapy | Hard Shell Chamber | Bend Regenerative Medicine
Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) is the use of oxygen as a medical treatment in a safe, pressurized environment. We offer the hard shell, ultimate HBOT treatment with high pressure 100% oxygen.
bendregenerativemedicine.com
Condition/Pressure/Time
- Cancer 2.0.24 ATA FOR 60-90 minutes
- Motor Vehicle Accident/TBI 1.5 ATA-1.75 ATA for 90 minutes
- Stem Cell Induction/Anti-Aging 2.4 ATA for 90 minutes
- Cognitive Decline/Dementia 1.5-1.75 ATA for 60-90 minutes
- Radiation Damage 2.4 ATA for 90 minutes
- Sudden Hearing Loss 2.0-2.4 ATA for 90 minutes
- Lyme Disease 2.4 ATA for 90 minutes
- Fibromyalgia/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome 2.4 ATA for 60-90 minutes
- Peripheral Neuropathy 2.4 ATA for 60-90 minutes
- Post Concussive Syndrome/TBI 1.5-1.75 ATA for 60-90 minutes
- Exercise Recovery/Sports Injury 1.5-2.4 ATA for 60-90 minutes
- Ulcerative Colitis/Crohn’s Disease 2.0-2.4 ATA for 60-90 minutes
Talking of qualitative, it could be that different ATA work best for different conditions.
I'm not sure about this since there are always lots of ideas that are simple assumptions and not really based on any real fact, but, at least from what I read in the information provided by some places that work with HBOT, and also what the doctor at the place I went said, the general idea is that the ATA that is best for you depends on the type of condition you have. For example, they said that if your problem is more neurological, cognitive, etc., 1.5 to 1.8 would be best, and for inflammatory conditions 2.0 to 2.3 would be best. Also, when dealing with the condition that affects divers (I don't remember the name), higher ATA is sometimes needed.
Again, I haven't looked much into it and I don't know what they base those guidelines on, but it could be something to look up.
It’s essentially because of the risk of Central Nervous Oxygen toxicity, which has been mentioned a few times but can occur when anyone breathes pure oxygen above 1.6 ATA.
The only thing you risk happening during decompression is something called an Arterial Gas Embolism, and that would only happen if you hold your breath. Essentially the gas inside your lungs will expand as the pressure reduces and can then burst out of the lungs and into an artery. That bubble in your artery will go directly into your brain and you’ll be dead in minutes. The injury is much more common in diving.
Here’s most likely another mechanism that’s helped by HBOT. Perhaps the pathways for oxygen diffusion are also strengthened with the therapy by essentially doing something like pulsing them.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Oxygen Gradients in the Microcirculation
Early in the last century August Krogh embarked on a series of seminal studies to understand the connection between tissue metabolism and mechanisms by which the cardiovascular system supplied oxygen to meet those needs. Krogh recognized that oxygen was ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
dredger
The Living Force
Good insights, and also, thanks @broken.english for the table, this can be taken as a base for discussion.
My lone question about this table is on what/which information did they base or rely to draw it ?
Let's suppose that this table is accurate, I think that they gave the minimal requirements for a category of illness, simply because you do not need more. I mean, for instance "Motor Vehicle Accident/TBI 1.5 ATA-1.75 ATA for 90 minutes" - to me this means that 1,5 ATA is the minimum, but if the device you possess goes to 2 ATA, i doubt that limitating it to a lower pressure (let's say 1,75 ATA) has any utility or even justification, and/or that higher pressure would become counter beneficial, but on the contrary, it would probably help to heal faster. But the question remains, which could be summarized by "Can an higher ATA pressure be counter-productive vs a category of illness ?" - by higher, i'm not talking here of testing high ATA pressure above 3 or 4 ATA, let's stay in the range between 1,5 (or 1,2) to 3,0 ATA. I would answer "no", but it's a personal answer based on nothing, just my thoughts.
To very summarize, i would say that the sentence "Higher is better" is valid (with maybe rare exceptions), but the other main factor that must be taken into consideration is the patient, if in bad health condition, in this case just do it slowly, mildly, like when you decide to get back into sport, start it slowly and gradually.. (note: I did not mention people having problems with their ears under higher pressure, that's a separated topic, like claustrophobia is one too)
About danger or safety protocol to follow once you "play" with higher pressure (like Oxygen toxicity, CO2, brutal decompression, ...) this is, I would say, out of topic. This is part of the good use of a tool. I have in mind the iode cure, with the lugol, if you swallow just a small spoon of lugol you die ... that's it, you need to take care and know the device, the general theory and how to use it, and it's obvious that if you would own a chambers that can reach for instance 3.0 ATA you need to know how to operate it and you need a minimum of knowledge doing this.
sbeaudry
Jedi Council Member
Yes, that was an option but the first recommendation was to bounce the pay through a US institution (a bank with swift).
I asked about that to Maggie at Macy Pan and got an Alibaba link. It was quite easy and has some consumer protections built in. It did have transaction fees but Maggie added extra masks and hoses for the inconvenience. The item shipped and DHL estimates Jan 18th. Surprisingly, this is faster from ordering, production, and shipping than before I could even get my first scheduled session locally, due to having to repair their unit. Local unit is 1.3 at the health center, the same as ordered. Alibaba was easy to work with, tracks payment and shipping, reviews, etc. At a cost of ~3% .
Edit: issues with quoting. Sorry
If you haven’t already ordered - go for 1.5 and 10L/min - it is a big difference.
sbeaudry
Jedi Council Member
I'm in US and wish I had inquired about 1.5 and 10l/m. I got excited and just went , "go!" Hopefully 1.3 and 5 will get me going. Shipment is en route already. With all of the uncertainty with everything I guess I was anxious to not miss my window
Typical me. But feel like even 1.3 and 5l is better than nothing. My father just passed and I used proceeds from some hand-me-downs to help fund this.
sbeaudry
Jedi Council Member
Quotes don't seem to be dropping in... anywhoseit... I'm currently thinking that @ 1.3atm I will need over 200hr at Pressure. Lifelong asthma and allergies. Family has history of both bone and blood cancer, as well as lung issues (pulmonary fibrosis, perhaps also a recessive cf gene, though I'm not doing gene testing), peripheral neuropathy and other foot issues. I have a rather large bone spur on my dominant big toe which has significantly impacted my ability to walk, along with sciatica and dorsal compression syndrome: my father was flat footed. I do use infrared sauna and that helps some, but it could be I have also been low oxygen most of my life. I tossed my inhalers at 19, currently 40. Diagnosed with Osgood schlotter's 30 Years ago which may have also effected blood flow to lower extremities. My health issues have gotten worse and worse since about 2017/18 and it has been really depressing thinking it was just downhill. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. 
I am hopeful and not super depressed for first time in awhile. Fingers crossed. I will report back when I receive the unit and put it together.
I am hopeful and not super depressed for first time in awhile. Fingers crossed. I will report back when I receive the unit and put it together.
