Is the bright white light and tunnel an alien trap for discarnate spirits?

[Buddy]

I believe the knowledge foundation here is more than sufficient & stable, to allow for unusual ideas and concepts. (Within limits.) And for that reason, future references of this nature ought not to be prohibited.

FWIW.

The line of force in these interactions doesn't seem to be leading to any prohibition, but it does seem to be leading more to a question about what one would possibly 'get' out of the "Buddism-validating-C's-validating- Buddism" cycle? Consider it a rhetorical question if you wish, though.

Personally, I don't doubt that Buddha attained something significant. I also don't doubt that many, many people in the Hindu culture (Sanatana Dharma) attained significant states for themselves. Heck, God may even exist for all I know and, if so, it is completely irrelevant. It's ALL irrelevant in a sense because in our current state all we (as mankind in general) know how to do is hold up models for others and to insist that others pattern themselves after these people. All we know how to do is to create followings and exploit the greatness of the spiritual models to gain power over others.

From my research, studies, and surveys of all the visible spiritual paths and teachings, I find that there are only two distinct paths that are visible from ground level. One is the Fourth Way and by extension, the Cassiopaean Experiment with its emphasis on "crystallizing a real 'I' or 'unifying the I's into one I."

The other includes everything else whose goal goes by various names and descriptions: no-self; egoless state; no I; the end of the social consciousness I; the disconnect from OPS or other people's stuff; the blasting away of the dominating, manipulator I; nirvana; the peace that passeth understanding, and so forth. On these paths, before that state of attainment has been reached, like the Fourth Way, there is also no Master of the House and the mind has been acting like a servant who has taken over and been pretending to own the house. After attainment, the mind with it's manipulator I becomes the servant again, faithfully staying in the background. When factual knowledge is demanded, the servant comes forth to offer the information and when so offered, retreats back into the background. As far as the psychology of the person, if there is anything of the original psychology left, it is mostly emptied or flushed of that negative emotion and those influences that can color and distort perceptions. This latter state is what so many others seem to have attained.

That doesn't seem so bad in itself, of course, but no Lauras, no Ceasers, no Putins nor any other benefactor of mankind or movers and shakers can ever arise from that group. If it appears any did, it was more likely the fakers who understood the enlightened one's answers but whose relationship with the truth was based more on what they can build for themselves and their own security. These are those who can teach the teachings of the masters but the teachings don't operate in their life. Their version of "no self" (for example) is an image only...like the thought of non-being, IMO.

From my perspective, the stripped-to-the-bone experience of the Shamanic Initiation was about flushing all that out of the system perhaps in a similar way to what some of the great spiritual personages accomplished. But, whereas others flushed it all out and stayed flushed, the fourth way work as exemplified here, IMO, is about answering the question: what can we build on that for the benefit of humanity? Builders welcome here, I think. :)

My 2 cents.

 

[Aeneas]

That doesn't seem so bad in itself, of course, but no Lauras, no Ceasers, no Putins nor any other benefactor of mankind or movers and shakers can ever arise from that group. If it appears any did, it was more likely the fakers who understood the enlightened one's answers but whose relationship with the truth was based more on what they can build for themselves and their own security. These are those who can teach the teachings of the masters but the teachings don't operate in their life. Their version of "no self" (for example) is an image only...like the thought of non-being, IMO.

From my perspective, the stripped-to-the-bone experience of the Shamanic Initiation was about flushing all that out of the system perhaps in a similar way to what some of the great spiritual personages accomplished. But, whereas others flushed it all out and stayed flushed, the fourth way work as exemplified here, IMO, is about answering the question: what can we build on that for the benefit of humanity? Builders welcome here, I think. :)

My 2 cents.

I think that is a very good distinction that you make. The approach here is very grounded in the reality where we find ourselves and is as you write about answering the question:

what can we build on that for the benefit of humanity? Builders welcome here, I think. :)

For a tree to grow tall and reach towards the sky, it needs to be very well grounded with roots extending deep into the earth.

 

[sitting]

I am quite clear in my purpose for making these references. Allow me to repeat:

"The only reason I made such references was due to key topics that were
raised. One by you (Joe) specifically (compassion.)
Other key topics brought up were:

empathy ... conduit ... meditation with seed ... density transitions ...

There are more."

If someone faults my effort, they really should refer back to the above points -- and state the problem. Otherwise it's talking apples & oranges.

One reason I post (so freely) is because I know there's a safety valve. And that safety valve ... is Laura. She will quickly correct my direction -- if it's dead ended. (She's already made hints. And it has registered.)

Any further references to Buddhism on my part -- will be made with exceptional care. That answers the part you (Buddy) highlighted.

I've studied Laura (and her work) long enough to know she's unlikely to issue prohibitions. (Only for something outrageous.) Her respect for intellectual freedom & integrity is deep.

But she can certainly be unhappy. And I'm not in the business of making her unhappy.

That said, there are areas where I know more. Finance, currencies, martial arts, skating -- for example. But when it comes to esoteric knowledge (including Buddhism) ... I'm simply not in her league. Not by a long shot. This I know.

I value her judgement greatly. At the same time retaining my own. These occupy difference spaces in my mind. Both are vital.

So those that think I'm somehow "challenging" her knowledge & being ... by bringing forth Buddhist concepts, are just so wrong -- that they're not even wrong.

I hope this makes things more clear.

FWIW.

 

[Buddy]

I hope this makes things more clear.

I'm clear. FWIW, I feel a kinship with what I imagine to be the character of your energy when you're standing your ground. You will likely be a formidable opponent to ponerizing influences. Unless I'm mistaken, I think more and more of us are developing this in ourselves and that seems to be a good thing. Thanks for your response.

 

[Divide by Zero]

I too respect and feel connected to your search for truth.

A little clarity here though. Laura is not the safety valve here. The network is.
The C's would probably explain that having one person take that responsibility would lead back to the problem here on earth. We don't follow authority or wait for someone who knows more to do something when we feel like something is wrong.

Like Buddy said, we're developing as opponents to ponerizing influences by sparring with each other in mutual respect and trust.

Trust and respect are two things that I had suffered through the last few months, with family and an ex. This thread came at the perfect time to help me understand my chaotic emotions- particularly anger and hate. I will try to make it clear and post it in the psychology forum when I feel it is coherent- as it being an emotional aspect that is hard to explain to those that may not have went through the crisis.

Same for this thread, have we not have had this discussion/sparring, we would not know as much as we do now.
More and more I understand what Seraph told Neo after their fight- "you do not know somebody until you fight them". Of course the movie made it trivial- kung fu/martial arts, but here we fight ideas to find the truth which none of us has all of.

 

[Laura]

Just for the record, I don't feel that anything is "challenging", I just don't see too much convergence. But then, I do know that we all have to achieve understanding based on comparisons and associations and we work with what is inside us at any given moment. When we get more, we understand more because we have more things to compare and contrast or associate.

 

[sitting]

Thank you all, for your kind remarks.

 

[sitting]

Just for the record, I don't feel that anything is "challenging", I just don't see too much convergence.

Hi Laura,

Thank you.

I will be paying much greater attention -- to a possible false convergence AND perhaps dangerous divergences. This road is not easy. I appreciate the head's up.

 

[sitting]

A little clarity here though. Laura is not the safety valve here. The network is.

Be careful with this one.

While Laura IS the network ... the network is not Laura. (The network depends on Laura.)

The C's have made this amply clear: Any harm to her, and everything collapses. So while this group is singularly unique -- it is also singularly dependent.

What this means is we all should quicken our own paces ... to catch up to her. And this primarily relates to our own disturbing emotions I think. Really time to clear them out.

Thankfully there seems to be a divine mist of protection -- over her, and the Chateau crew. But we should never take things for granted.

FWIW.

 

[luke wilson]

If everything that is essential depends on just 1 person, e.g. Putin, Caesar, Laura etc... Then we are all in big trouble. A robust system is something that is self sustaining and adaptable... Something that is dynamic and responsive to a changing environment.

People are mortal, not immortal! We can't rely only on singular people who one day won't be around whereas the rest of humanity and life in general ticks along!

In the forum, what about people like Joe, Chu, Niall, Obyvatel, AI etc plus all those who put stuff on SOTT, maintain the IT systems, Radio hosts, suggest reading material, engage in productive discourse etc... Will all them simply result in nothing?

For sure, there are critical elements to any network but if one exists that is entirely dependent on a single element... Then well... I believe... Disaster will strike one day.

 

[Psalehesost]

The descend of souls into physicality is in essence, an unbelievable "dumbing down" of the information field. (Obvious I think.) A reduction from infinite probabilities -- to workable possibilities.

This reduction confines our existence to within a particular camouflage (Seth's term.) A specific universe -- within the general framework of 3rd density (C's term.) In both, the innate power of souls is greatly restricted. For learning. It's during the transition time that everything from prior, reverts.

One thing to keep in mind is that time as we know it doesn't exist in 5D. So rather than a 'reduction' of consciousness or information, an incarnation is more like a 'branching out' into a subprocess, so that there is both the existence on the soul level (5D) and the incarnation. A soul in 5D can then be thought of as akin to a central node, with its incarnations being like other nodes surrounding it. The emphasis then seems to be more on processing at the 5D level and more on input and output (exchange with other beings and the environment) during incarnations.

Regardless of the actual physical circumstances when the SHTF, I think the "clear light of death" has to be present just prior to transit. It's the only condition where sufficient computational power exists -- to make density transition possible.

It's close to normal dying. With one difference. At critical moment -- instead of computing (variables being emotions, beliefs, clarity, confusion, etc) into bardo, the preferred answer gets us into a realm of "variable physicality." A new camouflage. With attributes of the ethereal AND physical coexisting. Fun place ... and one that's leveled.

(As an aside, I think the computational analogy may have some relevance. And "arrangement" is a form of computation.)

I believe for both 3rd density repeats AND graduates ... the near death experience may be a must -- and will be similar until the very last moment. Near death is where the transformative power is available. (This is very clear from tantra.) It's not in everyday walking around life. The available energy in everyday life is just too limited.

My guess is we will not be simply zapped into 4th while we're sitting down or lying in bed.

I think that, if graduation is to happen while still in the body, then something very different from a 'near death' experience is needed. (As for graduation without remaining in the body, it would then be a matter of what happens in 5D after crossing over, using what's been learned, so then it's not about being 'near' death.)

The 'normal condition' in this world is for people to be physically weakened, their minds filled with lies and illusions which they burn energy to support, and their emotional lives messy and dysfunctional. And along with that, the connection to higher aspects of the self is weak and noisy. With that as a starting point, the potential for change within life is huge!

I think the Work can be thought of in terms of a feedback loop. If the lower self turns in the direction of higher influences, then higher influences can act on/through the lower self, so that the lower self does work which aligns it further with higher influences. (Other influences of a negative kind may also try to set up competing feedback loops. And then, whichever feedback loop strengthens to the point of overriding the others is the one which 'wins out'. These feedback loops connected to either higher influences or negative ones can also be thought of in terms of feedback loops between the present and different possible futures.)

That's just looking at a person as an individual. With a group of people working together, the feedback loops expand into a more complex system, where constructive efforts of different persons are mutually strengthening.

Both individually and as a group, there may be several transitions in store where some 'critical mass' is reached following plenty of good work and both energy and 'computational power' increases in ways which could not have been imagined beforehand. And I think that's where the potential of the future is. But even without considering such things, it's amazing what just a few years of creative efforts can accomplish.

 

[sitting]

If everything that is essential depends on just 1 person, e.g. Putin, Caesar, Laura etc... Then we are all in big trouble.

And since when have we NOT been in big trouble?

The difference is we're just now seeing the terror of it.

And what I posted isn't my view. It's the C's view. (Go read the transcript.) C's have never minced words ... especially on critical matters.

The appropriate response (in my view) is to: Get moving ... and waste time not. For myself, I'm getting a better understanding of what "intensity of being alive" means.

All this does not minimize the import of the network. Networking is exceedingly vital.

I'm simply suggesting there's a lot more to this than meets the eye. We all need to really do the best we can. And hence (in some small measure,) repay the enormous debt that we all owe -- to this outstanding teacher.

FWIW.

 

[luke wilson]

To die - you go to 5D - then you incarnate through birth as a baby. To go to 4D without dying means that you don't do the step over in 5D i.e. die. Osit, at least as per the definitions.

In 3D, we are locked in a body, but who we are, the totality of that information, is that synonymous to the body?As far as I understand, all the densities are not places, they are more states of being and awareness. So, can you be zapped to 4D as if going through some teleportation device where you emerge in a new locality?

What about, something akin to a change of channel. The information that is you simply interfacing with something new and that process of change not meeting the requirements and definitions of death i.e. both a demise of the physical body and a recycling through 5D. But surely, the body that is you right now only meets the criteria of 3D... So the body that will be you in 4D will be different by definition. So there will have to be a change. Either by transitioning through death and 5D or via a different way. Either way, the body that is you right now will meet a demise in order for you to meet the criteria of occupying 4D in whatever form... Its just that, that demise doesn't have to satisfy the definitions of 'dying' as per the criteria's.

That's my limited view on it. :D

Also, in some of the transcripts, the Cs talk about the dual density residents of the subterranean worlds. I wonder, if in 3D, do they have 4D awareness, if it is so that those people can occupy both. The way they said it made it appear that 3D and 4D were merely 2 different places as opposed to 2 different states. Again, gets you thinking... Can a 4D being occupy 3D state and still retain 4D awareness? God! That's gaming the system if you ask me...

 

[Joe]

If everything that is essential depends on just 1 person, e.g. Putin, Caesar, Laura etc... Then we are all in big trouble. A robust system is something that is self sustaining and adaptable... Something that is dynamic and responsive to a changing environment.

People are mortal, not immortal! We can't rely only on singular people who one day won't be around whereas the rest of humanity and life in general ticks along!

In the forum, what about people like Joe, Chu, Niall, Obyvatel, AI etc plus all those who put stuff on SOTT, maintain the IT systems, Radio hosts, suggest reading material, engage in productive discourse etc... Will all them simply result in nothing?

For sure, there are critical elements to any network but if one exists that is entirely dependent on a single element... Then well... I believe... Disaster will strike one day.

It's not unusual for one person to carry the burden of responsibility for a project, and for the continuance of the project to depend on that person. Usually that person is the one who conceived of the project, launched it and is responsible for directing its changing course in order that it should continue. This is natural, I think, because if the original idea came from a single person, then they have shown a gift or natural insight or proclivity for originating that particular idea and pushing it forward.

Those that resonate with it and gather to help with the sundry tasks that are involved are very useful, essential even, to making it all work, but those sundry tasks alone do not the core idea of the project make. Without that core idea and the conceiver of that idea to continually input new energy into the concept, then there is no idea, no project anymore. It comes to an end.

This does not necessarily make that person "immortal" or any other high falutin idea, it just means that some ideas are unique to the person that conceives them, and it's not possible for someone else to step in and replace them any more than it is possible for one person to step into the body and mind of another person and 'be' that other person and live their life for them in exactly the way the former occupant would.

So as Sitting says, rather than quibble over it, the focus should probably be on everyone doing their bit to push the project and aim forward to the best of their ability.

 

[luke wilson]

If everything that is essential depends on just 1 person, e.g. Putin, Caesar, Laura etc... Then we are all in big trouble. A robust system is something that is self sustaining and adaptable... Something that is dynamic and responsive to a changing environment.

People are mortal, not immortal! We can't rely only on singular people who one day won't be around whereas the rest of humanity and life in general ticks along!

In the forum, what about people like Joe, Chu, Niall, Obyvatel, AI etc plus all those who put stuff on SOTT, maintain the IT systems, Radio hosts, suggest reading material, engage in productive discourse etc... Will all them simply result in nothing?

For sure, there are critical elements to any network but if one exists that is entirely dependent on a single element... Then well... I believe... Disaster will strike one day.

It's not unusual for one person to carry the burden of responsibility for a project, and for the continuance of the project to depend on that person. Usually that person is the one who conceived of the project, launched it and is responsible for directing its changing course in order that it should continue. This is natural, I think, because if the original idea came from a single person, then they have shown a gift or natural insight or proclivity for originating that particular idea and pushing it forward.

Those that resonate with it and gather to help with the sundry tasks that are involved are very useful, essential even, to making it all work, but those sundry tasks alone do not the core idea of the project make. Without that core idea and the conceiver of that idea to continually input new energy into the concept, then there is no idea, no project anymore. It comes to an end.

This does not necessarily make that person "immortal" or any other high falutin idea, it just means that some ideas are unique to the person that conceives them, and it's not possible for someone else to step in and replace them any more than it is possible for one person to step into the body and mind of another person and 'be' that other person and live their life for them in exactly the way the former occupant would.

So as Sitting says, rather than quibble over it, the focus should probably be on everyone doing their bit to push the project and aim forward to the best of their ability.

Very true!!! :)

I dread the day they ever get Putin if they do... we don't want another Caesar type situation! As per Laura... she's well protected there in the French enclave!! The only obstacle on her path are the gaining years but she has got at least a solid 30 left! :D Hopefully by then the project has reached a formidable and unstoppable level!