Is There an Ideal Way of Acting and Being in Male-Female Relationships?

[Artex]

Maybe this is a bit off topic but connected indirectly in a way but when it comes to women, many men do not understand female nature and that they are totally different, women are emotional and can change in extremes in short time their emotional state while men are more rational or used to be when taking into account todays society, and of course this are some general characteristics and dinamycs and probably do not apply to someone who works on self but there are few of those in this world so those facts stand for majority.

Some dating books about female psyche and dating should suffice, so it is not only about psychopaths it is about women nature and what women are attracted to, and especially today in the west where the enviroment is especially toxic and women being much worse then men when it comes to loyality and promiscuity thanks to femminism, women "liberation" aka promiscuity, extreme left values and attack on masculinity, sexualization, social media where women get unlimited attention from numerous men(which is their fault also) and inflates their ego sky high and got them unlimited options and is reason why women in west break marriage in 70 per cent of cases and why only 10-30 per cent of marriages are healthy, non toxic ones.

Most women are attracted to dark triad traits, in the end we live in the sts world, so should take into account of that facts and inner state of most people.

First of women are attracted to traits like confidence, high internal value in other words, man with strong opinions and values, boldnes, then internal strength - emotional strength, man who are emotionally non reactive, indifferent, keep their cool, then preselection - if they see you have many girls around you or other girls are attracted to you, research showed that women are attracted more to man who are taken then those that are single, and the last thing is being a challenge - they are attracted to a man that is not too available, has other options, and that is not chasing them.

So when it comes to most man today in western world and broader many have low internal value and confidence, and many simp for women and change their beliefs if they have any to match women they are interested in so to get her to like him, if not at first then later in longer relationship or marriage, and they want to prove their value to women by telling her how much money they have, what they achieved, etc... that is all repulsive and they come as insecure.

Most people lack emotional control and are reactive as we know and it comes to women that those kind of men are not going to provide stable relationship under pressure so the women will test and many test unconsciously and other with intention or both to see if you are reactive, trying to push your buttons, some also do it to manipulate you and get from you what they want, that is many women are prone to emotional manipulation, for example crying to get you to react or feel guilty when there is no reason for that, so there is that saying women is stronger then king or emperor because she can get them to do her bidding.

Most men are today thought wrongly through their parents, movies and modern society, to put women on pedestal, treat her like princess, buy her gifts when you just met, treat her as a prize so that tells her you just met her and do not know her yet so you must like her because of her looks that is shallow and that you have no other options or both, and many man today are needy and make their life priority women or marriage and are always available on her whim to help her because they care for her, but too much availability, familiarity, going out of your goals and plans to satisfy women (her controlling you in other words) and no distance kills attraction.

As said most women are emotional and they mostly do not use logic and you can not reason with them when in emotional state, and someone who is predictable and stable becomes boring for women(especially those unstable with prior traumas) and they feel emotionally dead, so many, especially those with prior baggage will choose toxic relationship then stable ones because they feel more alive, and their current partner became to dependent on them, too invested, available, so you only have to polarise women emotions in a positive or negative way, and here are those of dark triad traits that are masters of it and have it so easy with women as research showed that they have much more partners. They do not lack confidence because they think all world revolves around them, they have no emotions so they are cold, they are challenge because they do not care, they are cold, and they only want power, that is women are drawn to man with social status, not so much to money but to man who can make money and provide for her and offspring(if they are not gold diggers), and to man who have ambition, and as said who have better social status, so you can get a picture why psychopats and similar degenerics.

Most women will tell you they want a nice guy, who is kind, etc.. but always look at their actions not for words because women will rationalize based on her feelings that someone has that traits based on her feelings not facts, and they are attracted more to "bad" guys that are just normal guys who are more direct and honest what they want, have their values they stick to no matter what, women is not a top priority in their life, ready to walk away when disrespected, ready to say no if they do not like something, while those nice guys come as dishonest and pretending so to get women to like him and are affraid to be rejected so are easily controlled.

Research also showed women think nice guys are easily manipulated and taken advantage off which is not good for survival.

Most women will deny what was written because it is mostly unconscious at their part, other won t say it because it does not sound nice, and small number is concious of it and will admit it if they are not judged for it.

So the point of whole story is that those with dark triad traits by their design are hacked into women sts biological nature.

I personally think modern Western humans (in particular) overthink everything. Make yourself happy before you seek a relationship. A relationship shouldn't be a goal like hunting a deer or buying a car. Once you are happy and participate in things that make you happy, just interact with others like they're like you. A relationship will then find you.

The only time I've struggled with relationships is when I've decided I need a relationship to be happy. Once I stopped doing that, and lived alone for several years just learning that I could take care of myself, then relationships found me. I had no problem meeting women and courting them, because I lost the desperation I had prior to making myself happy. Even in my marriage, I do not make decisions based on fear of losing my spouse. I love her very much, but if something that redefined our relationship happened and we had to part ways, I at least would not try to save the marriage solely out of fear of loneliness or financial hardship or loss of material goods.

The best advice anyone ever gave me is "never go to bed angry" and that is sound advice. I would also add that if you don't have the exact same sleep schedule or work schedule, and the very least, you should have separate beds in the same room. But if you want real peace and work different shifts, have separate bedrooms.

One mistake contemporary western society makes in relationships is defining friendship as tantamount to boring. And then there are "friend zones" where one person never disabuses the other person in the friendship of the notion that something more could happen, but continues to reap the benefits of the one-sided relationship until the other person works up the courage to say something or make a move. Then both people lose. But the older you get, the more important being friends first with your partner will become.

Worrying about the general psyche of a person beyond whether they share the same reality is setting yourself up to become neurotic by reading things into behavior that aren't there. I don't miss that part of my life.

Make yourself happy building the groundwork of your life, go out and have fun and meet new people, and when you start a relationship, be open and honest about what you want and your expectations, and don't take offense when your potential partner challenges you on your ideas (unless they do it in an offensive way).

The movie "Hi Fidelity" is a perfect example of how society sabotages potential relationships by setting unrealistic expectations for men and women. And the main character comes to his senses after sabotaging his own long term relationship and then realizing he's upset that the fantasy isn't real, which caused him to miss out on the reality of how good his relationship was.

 

[Alejo]

“But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed. You are responsible for your rose…”

“I am responsible for my rose,” the little prince repeated, so that he would be sure to remember.

And the above, despite being written in France, which is also the home of Foucault, interestingly, is precisely opposed to what people are being presented as the goals in life these days, particularly in the west.

Instead of "you are responsible for what you tame, your rose", which translates into be careful who you tame, because they're your responsibility; We're presented with "Make sure the rose makes you happy always, all the time, otherwise, find yourself another rose"... "manipulate the rose, let the rose know you have other roses waiting to be with you, because you're such a catch.."

"The rose is disposable" That's what it comes down to, sadly.

But if you flip it, if you are responsible for the rose, your relationships, the promises you make, you're actually a lot more careful about who you make promises to, about who you tame.

I think I mentioned this before, but in terms of Aragorn, The little Prince and strength and power, I was reminded of Dragon Ball Z, one of my favorite scenes from that series is one in which Goku tells Gohan "power comes in response to a need, not a desire". It's responsibility, fulfilling your natural role, as a man.. or a woman, that's where power comes from, from the choice to fulfill a need/destiny, and not from simply wanting to be stronger for strength's sake, that is vanity.

 

[Menna]

I must say I have found a deeper more clear level of care with women. It’s a fine line of caring for without letting the women’s machine hinder, disrupt, undermine, or negatively affect my 4th way life leading to negative effects/results as I try to come with love but must realize this is a process and my caring and understanding isn’t going to RE wire the machine in 48hrs. This is where respect comes in.

Wise like serpents and gentle like doves I believe is a quote from the Cs. Be wise in the care and understanding you show and give to another care and give with boundaries while not losing yourself.

There is no need to overreact when you can enact this type of being in a relationship as you won’t make things worse and you will allow your partner to know you are there for them hopefully building trust but you will not sacrifice yourself for them maybe they will respect you for this. You are here for your fate and learning not to be co-opted by another but at the same time you can show others you care deeply and can use tact while handling situations.

This is a skill I am learning and will be practicing more and more hopefully. At times I overshare or use too much of my emotional center so my energies need to be more balanced caring, considering and understanding others without putting myself in a 4th way life “losing position” or sacrificing giving away too much life isn’t ending tomorrow so I need to realize time should be added to the care love understanding

 

[nf3]

How does being physically fit help a man become a fully functioning adult? I mean, I know it can help train one to be disciplined by sticking to a regiment, but I have known plenty of male gym rats who are not at all very good at being an adult human. It just seems like another superficial trait that the manosphere people think is important in getting a woman (pretty girl like big muscle).

Revulsion to physicality can be balanced via 3D means of shaping the body. It will never feel like "home" but it becomes far less distracting and draining. It also strengthens the central nervous system.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I think there are quite a few members who are in a long term relationship or married to someone who isn't really interested in what we do, but somehow they work it out. Maybe they can chime in with their examples if it's not too personal.

@Happy Poo
I’m late to this thread (still making my way through most of it, but wanted to reply to this one). I’ve been with a girl for 8 years now who has no presence here or particular interest to be on the forum. I always thought that I’d have to find someone who is part of the forum, aware of Laura’s writing and some of recommended reading, doing the Work, etc. At least to an extent. If this is a hugely important part of my life, it is understandable to want to find someone who values this too, and to have common topics of discussion, and Work together etc. And maybe in a perfect world, this would still be the ideal “pool” to choose from.

However, I realized that there’s not that many people here (vs 8 billion humans), we are generally scattered all over the world, and so the odds are pretty slim. This is also not a dating site, and generally speaking we don’t hold conventions where a few thousand of us get together and mingle. Mingling is rare for forumites at large. So as I reasoned it through, my options are - start going to Laura’s house. And even if I did, visit, what am I supposed to do, find someone single to flirt with? I’m sure I’d be much more focused on other things if I ever visit. I’m not going to flirt in a forum thread either lol. Also as a rule forumites are discouraged (for good reason) of private messaging each other. And if you did, flirting is generally a red flag. Again, for good reason, very often the ones who have done so were the last person you’d want talking to you as they tended to be predatory and manipulative, having an agenda, etc.

So look, outside of a bunch of us living in a house or neighborhood together (never say never, however!), the odds are against you. And on top of all of that, dating based on criteria or a checklist doesn’t work well. Even if I went to Laura’s house, and there happened to be a very attractive single woman hanging around, and even if she was super well versed in all things Cass, you have to have an attraction physically, personality wise, humor wise, and other ways. You can’t schedule a relationship or mutual attraction based on preconceived criteria alone.

So I could either not date at all because I figured why bother I don’t want someone who isn’t a match in that sense, or I could date anyway and at least I could meet some cool people that I may enjoy spending time with. Who knows what the universe has in store?

Well I did the latter, without having my hopes up. I met a girl on a dating site (I know, I know), and the rest is history. Here’s the thing. She doesn’t read the forum, but she has intuitively been doing the Work without knowing it has a name and a book. She is interested in many of the same subjects, and thinks with a hammer when it comes to these things, and when it comes to solving problems together as they come up. She’s also the most caring, selfless, hard working, and loving girl I’ve ever met. And she loves dark and inappropriate humor just like I do. I could talk to her for hours without being bored. I could go on and on.

And you know what - it worked. We help each other work on our own weaknesses. We leverage our strengths. She can be emotional and gets angry sometimes out of seemingly nothing, but she is just as quick to calm down, and I try to be the calming influence whenever possible. She’s hyper aware of this. I have my issues and she’s incredibly supportive and encouraging to motivate me to stay the course, etc.

And I’m happy with her. I talk to her about many topics from the forum, about the sessions, and she will order and read books from the reading list. She’s interested in psychological topics and others, mostly situational. Like my mom was a narcissist so she will delve deeply into that topic because it happens to be relevant. And so on.

We have salient and objective discussions about the state of the world, where it’s all going, how to get through it together, etc. We send each other links and articles about what’s going on and talk about them.

Turns out what I thought I wanted and what I really needed weren’t aligned. So now my view has changed. If you were to ask me now what I think are the most important qualities in a person for me to seriously consider dating, the forum wouldn’t be a requirement, it would be a “nice to have”. I’d say it’s someone who has a truly loving and giving heart, isn’t manipulative, is smart and loves to think and discuss, and someone who is truly willing to work hard on her own life and on your relationship to always be growing and improving. Both as a couple and as individuals. Basically if they can exhibit the qualities that this forum and the C’s stand for, actually being on the forum is optional. I can cover that part, as much as I can. And the future is open!

Would I bring her with me if I ever get a chance to visit Laura? You bet your ass I would. Would I be proud of who she is as a person to proudly tell people whom I admire that this is my girlfriend? Hell yes I would. In many ways, for all my years of reading the forum and all that, she is ahead of me in the Work (again, without having realized she was doing it). Yes I know a bunch of more technical stuff from the C’s cosmology and other stuff, but when it comes to learning lessons and practicing what you preach, I’ve never met someone who is more congruent. Also she’s the most honest person I know. Almost to a fault.

So my advice - I don’t think it hurts to meet people and talk. Go on dates, get to know them, tell them about yourself, and see how things go. The ones who don’t fit will fall off, but if you’re just out there and not afraid to see what happens, you may find some great people. Maybe one of them you’d be happy to spend your life with. Just be smart about it, don’t let your private parts do the thinking and decision making, apply what you learned on this forum when it comes to narcissists, and other potential traps. Look out for red flags basically and don’t ignore them. Take your time, don’t force or rush anything. I think people can sometimes surprise you.

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

I’m late to this thread

Thank you so much, not just for a very enjoyable read, but for an example of what can be done. I am so so pleased you have met someone who completes you which comes through in everything you said.

Again thank you for sharing with the heartfelt hope it will encourage many people here.
By the way have you shown your post to your girl-friend? Just curious..

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Thank you so much, not just for a very enjoyable read, but for an example of what can be done. I am so so pleased you have met someone who completes you which comes through in everything you said.

Again thank you for sharing with the heartfelt hope it will encourage many people here.
By the way have you shown your post to your girl-friend? Just curious..

Lol I was thinking about it. She’s at work right now but I may casually tell her I said a nice thing about her on the forum, but I can just see her reaction like “oh god SAO what did you tell them about me” then after she reads it she will be like “books?! When was the last time you ordered and read a book from the reading list?”. I’d just have to say touché and maybe read one quick.

But seriously how am I supposed to keep her in line if she knows how I really feel about her? After she reads this comment I will no longer be among the living, so if you need any future comments from me please refer to your nearest ouija board. Just don’t let my girlfriend use it or I’m in trouble even in 5D. Can a person die twice? Asking for a friend

 

[BHelmet]

This is truly funny. Like most everyone, I have looked at this thread and answered it with a formula or maybe a credo that says “Here is what I do or, here is what I think is the best way”. All those answers assume and imply that the fundamental answer is “yes”.

However….

“Is There an Ideal Way of Acting and Being in Male-Female Relationships?”​

It’s a yes/no question! And clearly the true answer is: …no!

1. Anyone in a male-female relationship already knows this from experience! And if they don’t, they are kidding themselves or inexperienced and believe that there IS an ideal (wishful thinking) or a perfect magic formula to avoid conflict, misunderstanding, mistakes and suffering. (As opposed to the bull-in-a-China-shop trial and error Bozo method?) But conflict, misunderstanding and suffering in relationships are baked into the cake. It’s part of the deal. Part of the growth process; one of the lessons of 3D. Unavoidable no matter how clever you might be.

2. And then there is the underlying implication: why? Why believe in and look for an ideal? What defines ‘ideal’?

Isn’t the subconscious ‘ideal’ To avoid pain, failure, guilt, blame and suffering? What kind of ideal is that? Alas, It is ultimately a selfish STS endeavor. “I don’t want to go through a bunch of garbage if I can help it. I don’t want to make mistakes, it’s hard on my ego. I don’t want to go through or cause upsets. I want to avoid negative emotions. I’m sick and tired of triggering your ass because YOU don’t understand your own mechanisms you keep projecting on me” yadda yadda yadda. That stuff is hardwired in.

So, Look at the motives to believe a perfect ideal of behavior exists. Quite an eye-opener of self observation.

Perhaps this is more like it: is there an ideal way of dealing with hurt feelings, verbal blunders and misunderstandings in relationships?

The breakdowns are inevitable.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

This is truly funny. Like most everyone, I have looked at this thread and answered it with a formula or maybe a credo that says “Here is what I do or, here is what I think is the best way”. All those answers assume and imply that the fundamental answer is “yes”.

However….

“Is There an Ideal Way of Acting and Being in Male-Female Relationships?”​

It’s a yes/no question! And clearly the true answer is: …no!

1. Anyone in a male-female relationship already knows this from experience! And if they don’t, they are kidding themselves or inexperienced and believe that there IS an ideal (wishful thinking) or a perfect magic formula to avoid conflict, misunderstanding, mistakes and suffering. (As opposed to the bull-in-a-China-shop trial and error Bozo method?) But conflict, misunderstanding and suffering in relationships are baked into the cake. It’s part of the deal. Part of the growth process; one of the lessons of 3D. Unavoidable no matter how clever you might be.

2. And then there is the underlying implication: why? Why believe in and look for an ideal? What defines ‘ideal’?

Isn’t the subconscious ‘ideal’ To avoid pain, failure, guilt, blame and suffering? What kind of ideal is that? Alas, It is ultimately a selfish STS endeavor. “I don’t want to go through a bunch of garbage if I can help it. I don’t want to make mistakes, it’s hard on my ego. I don’t want to go through or cause upsets. I want to avoid negative emotions. I’m sick and tired of triggering your ass because YOU don’t understand your own mechanisms you keep projecting on me” yadda yadda yadda. That stuff is hardwired in.

So, Look at the motives to believe a perfect ideal of behavior exists. Quite an eye-opener of self observation.

Perhaps this is more like it: is there an ideal way of dealing with hurt feelings, verbal blunders and misunderstandings in relationships?

The breakdowns are inevitable.

I actually interpreted the question a bit differently. I didn’t see it as asking if there is a perfect formula to avoid problems. More like “is there such a thing as a healthy approach to relationships?”. Kinda like people on this forum are all different, we all have our own programs and issues. Is there an ideal way to explain something to someone? Well not in a formulaic way, we all learn differently and the more you know a person the more you adapt your approach to explaining or teaching or communicating.

So I see this similarly - there are certain general principles that should guide your actions, with plenty of room for detail variability accounting for the specific person in question.

For example, some people can handle a difficult truth better than others. Let’s say one of your ideals is honesty in your relationship. Does that mean you have to be direct and honest all the time? Well no, if someone needs time to warm up to something, that’s how you go about it. Your goal is honesty but you know that sometimes you have to be gentle about it. But it doesn’t mean honesty is no longer the ideal - you don’t decide that in some relationships you will disregard honesty entirely. Honesty itself is non-negotiable. The devil, then, is in the details.

And over time that person may be able to handle more direct honesty without freaking out or losing their cool. So you both strive towards that ideal and work on it.

One way to look at it maybe is “external considering” a la Guedjieff. The goal is truth, but it’s counterproductive to give someone something that makes them very uncomfortable or unable to process it productively. You cater your approach to the other person.

The way you act with your significant other may be different than I do in some situations. But we both strive towards honesty and integrity. We both want to exhibit masculinity, personal responsibility, coolness under pressure, etc.

STO is also an ideal we strive for - but in this world it’s necessary to sometimes lie, hide, protect yourself, etc. It doesn’t mean the ideal is no longer STO, and at every opportunity where your actions won’t harm yourself or disturb another, we choose the most STO thing we can, within reason.

Maybe one good question to ask ourselves that is similar to the title is “what is love?” (Baby don’t hurt me…). Is there an ideal way to love someone?

 

[Renaissance]

I actually interpreted the question a bit differently. I didn’t see it as asking if there is a perfect formula to avoid problems. More like “is there such a thing as a healthy approach to relationships?”.

Yes, that is how I understood the purpose of the thread as well. Conflict, misunderstandings, differences etc. are pretty fundamental to relationships of all kinds as we are all different people. Relationships between men and woman naturally need to address how a man sees and deals with things, and how a woman sees and deals with things. The union and committment in such a relationship are there so partners will deal with such things and grow together.

There does seem part of the subconscious that does indeed seek to avoid pain and conflict whether single or in a relationship. An answer is that we cannot avoid such things, and especially, we cannot deal with such things alone. We need connection and the help of others. And we also need to provide the help to others to step outside of our bubble too.

Now, all that isn't to say that there really isn't always or even usually an ideal in terms of actions or doing specific things. Relationships, people, and circumstances are complicated. I think it is more of an approach involving character traits like sincerity, honesty, willingness, faith, and humility that help find the way for specific situations. So, perhaps the ideal in relationships is just really working towards becoming a good partner through learning how to be of service to others and becoming a good human being. There are gender specific issues, but it seems even those things are designed at a higher level, probably following higher natural laws, to create the conditions for learning and growing.

 

[Alejo]

Or the ideal is individual, to each partner and to the relationship, every relationship has such unique dynamics and things that work for them may not work for some other couple.

It is also a way to ponder that question within to each one of us, perhaps everyone longs for that level of connection, but I daresay few have ever asked themselves that question, in that sense this "ideal" is not a formula to apply from without, but rather a response.. an ideal one strives for, which implies a path.

It's not a list of requirements as one looks for a partner, but rather, a behavioral/cognitive/emotional aim for the individual. So, I think the question still stands but it is one to be answered by the individual.

And also yes, I think in terms of relationships, not just romantic ones, professional ones and family relations, even the relationship with ourselves, all those can be influenced by the principles one may learn here. I think that was always the goal in a sense, not to have a forum presence that doesn't seep into the outside world, a divided persona of sorts, but where the principles here transform your self everywhere.

The person you're here becomes the person out there. And if it is in the cards for you to find that connection, then I'd say you have a better chance at being that "ideal" with someone out there, and your relationship and choice of partners will be different as a result.

And if it isn't, then you will still accomplish a great task by working through everything that distances you from that ideal. But also, if it is not in the cards for you, it isn't for everyone, then you can't discount the influence that your choices may have on someone else either, I don't know, maybe you have a niece (or nephew, brother or sister) that will see you and learn what is possible, and you may influence their choice of partners, or behavior growing up.

Because that ideal isn't a separate romantic lover that you enact when in a relationship, but rather, How would, who you choose to be (your ideal self), behave in a relationship?

And as far as pain goes, well I see what you're saying, it does seem rather counterintuitive to wish for a life or a relationship without pain, heck, in a sense one could make the case that pain might be the reason why we're here in the first place. And so, the ideal would probably be geared more towards how do we behave through the pain, alone or with someone else. What is our relationship with pain?

But I also don't think that the notion of not wanting to suffer, specially in a relationship, should be entirely dismissed. In fact, I think that notion is partly at the core of working through painful issues in a relationship. You will simply not be able to avoid suffering, but it is in your natural tendency to not want to suffer that you may find some creative solutions to it when it does show up.

I remember a scene from Batman the dark knight rises where a doctor is telling Bruce Wayne, who is attempting to escape from prison, that he needed to make a jump without the rope, becase fear of falling was the fuel to find the way and the strength to make the jump in a way that would ensure one wouldn't fall, the rope prevented that one factor from entering the picture. It's a similar principle.

I hope the above made sense.

 

[Jones]

Can't remember where I first saw this, did a quick search and don't think it was in this thread, but apologies if it was and I missed it.

Interesting approach from Brene Brown. What do you all think?

 

[BHelmet]

At what point does an ideal become a fantasy? And a wishful one at that.

It takes two to tango and every dance is subject to the limitations and preferences of each dancer. It is possible to choose your dance partner. But It is also true that the partners we are attracted to may not be the ideal dance partner.

Aye, there’s the rub. One of them, anyway.

It is also possible that a partner may be a great partner for only certain parts of the dance. But if those parts of the dance are more important to you than other parts, you may weigh things out and say, “this is 68.5% of my ideal”. Or rather: “this dancer seems to allow for me to act in what I currently perceive to be the ideal way 2/3 of the time”. Do I want to keep searching or engage in the dance? As life and time roll by, the pressure naturally builds to make a choice.

And in our dance with God, we have to acknowledge that this divine mind/higher consciousness may have dances and dancers in mind for us that also challenge our notions of the ideal.

…Because there are lessons we need to learn to complete our journey. And those lessons may include less than ideal dancers and dances for karmic or other reasons.

Aye, another rub, it is.

Going back to the first point, we also have to choose from the dancers available in the dancehall. Inevitably, no matter how good or bad I am at dancing, I have to learn your dance in order to most gracefully dance with you, and vice versa. And learning how another dances usually involves compromises and a bit of sacrifice of the ideal. I dare say, even the dance of the polar opposites is fraught with missteps in the dance.

At some point one comes to a signpost in the road that says: there is no perfect dancer. The dances are open to interpretation. The dance is chaotic. But it is not without reward, even if the dancing is less than ideal.

The nature of dancing with the opposite sex seems to require adaptability on the fly. And being adaptable will inevitably ask us to throw our notions of ideal interaction out the window.

Aye, ‘tis one rub after another, h’ain’t it?

To be clear, I’m not intending to say there is no ideal worth striving for. I’m saying that the reality on the ground is… less than ideal. : )

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Yes, that is how I understood the purpose of the thread as well. Conflict, misunderstandings, differences etc. are pretty fundamental to relationships of all kinds as we are all different people. Relationships between men and woman naturally need to address how a man sees and deals with things, and how a woman sees and deals with things. The union and committment in such a relationship are there so partners will deal with such things and grow together.

There does seem part of the subconscious that does indeed seek to avoid pain and conflict whether single or in a relationship. An answer is that we cannot avoid such things, and especially, we cannot deal with such things alone. We need connection and the help of others. And we also need to provide the help to others to step outside of our bubble too.

Now, all that isn't to say that there really isn't always or even usually an ideal in terms of actions or doing specific things. Relationships, people, and circumstances are complicated. I think it is more of an approach involving character traits like sincerity, honesty, willingness, faith, and humility that help find the way for specific situations. So, perhaps the ideal in relationships is just really working towards becoming a good partner through learning how to be of service to others and becoming a good human being. There are gender specific issues, but it seems even those things are designed at a higher level, probably following higher natural laws, to create the conditions for learning and growing.

Here’s what JP had to say on fighting in relationships, I thought it was very well put: (my girlfriend wanted me to share as she found it very well expressed)

Some conflict is necessary and inevitable and healthy. Otherwise you’re not growing or challenging each other. Without conflict someone is hiding their true thoughts and feelings and/or subordinating themselves to the other. No one on 3d is a copy of someone else. Also no one on 3d is so collinear and so conscious that they will always agree. I’m not even sure that’s a thing even on 4D - as long as there is individuality and free will, people will have different ideas and understandings. Maybe not about everything, but about some things, and those things will come up eventually.

 

[Alejo]

It takes two to tango and every dance is subject to the limitations and preferences of each dancer. It is possible to choose your dance partner. But It is also true that the partners we are attracted to may not be the ideal dance partner.

What you say is all very valid, to borrow your analogy, this thread is exploring a few principles of that dance.

Essentially, what you're pointing out is true, all of it. But the point of this discussion is to recognize the music, with its rhythm, harmonies, melodies and so on... AND learning how to dance to THAT music, so that you can dance.

Because we all want to dance, but it's better if we understand the music, and know how to dance it, as opposed to wanting to dance and not understanding the music nor knowing how to dance, that is a recipe for disaster.

Yes, of course, we will need to be ashamed by admitting that we had no clue what music we were dancing to, as a lesson, and some lessons are also picking the wrong dance partner, over and over again.. or (And this is very important) being the wrong partner over and over again, or being passed on because there are better partners available, or rejected, or made fun of and humiliated, or humiliating someone, or rejecting someone and so on, you follow my train of thought.

But that's life, you don't have to dance, but it's better to know how to IMO. But you don't have to. Because not every dance is with a potential romantic partner either. And not everyone will find a partner. But, that's life too, I still think it's better to know the music and know how to dance.

So, there is the point of this thread, there's music and we all want to dance, do we understand the music? and do we know how to dance?