Is There an Ideal Way of Acting and Being in Male-Female Relationships?

[Menna]

I remember it being mentioned here that one should be careful who one has sex with because you are basically having sex with every other person your sex partner has been with, energetically speaking, and you could pick up some bad juju.

Yes, energy transfer, spirit attachment transfer and all that

 

[Alejo]

I remember it being mentioned here that one should be careful who one has sex with because you are basically having sex with every other person your sex partner has been with, energetically speaking, and you could pick up some bad juju.

Or, help one another workout the bad juju that is contained in each individual, we also come with bad juju. I think one should not ignore the potential for bad juju coming from a sexual partner, but I don't think one should allow that to freeze one into inaction, I think there's being hygienic, which is good, and becoming obsessive over potential contagion, at which point the only possible solution is to never engage in it ever because of the potential bad juju.

I think once one knows the person well enough, one can determine whether said person is one that one wants to risk their bad juju exchange, but the goal is an exclusive partnership. Because while there's bad juju and it abounds in even the most chaste of partners I think, we're also not inert substances, our intent, our attitude, our feelings and honesty are also present when engaging in it.

Now I am not suggesting a liberal attitude about it, a careful selection should be made IMO, but I also think that an honest and as clear as possible expression of the feelings you have for this person, though the physical, should be made mindfully, and courageously, and presently, without letting fear run the show. Specially because that fear, tied to sex, is in itself a bad juju OSIT

I think sexuality can indeed be a big problem, like language can be a big problem. But the way I see it is, it's not a problem without a solution, you learn each other's language and communicate. But it can also be a big help, constructive instead of destructive. It all depends on those involved, and what is being expressed IMO.

 

[CelticWarrior]

If you are a man, I would caution you not to become angry, bitter or jaded from your interactions with young women. This is a never ending pitfall of emotional constipation that you cannot win. The solution is actually simple believe it or not. YOU as a MAN must conduct yourself with the utmost value and integrity and choose very wisely with whom you associate or pursue. Yes, women can be picky maters but so can men, I am one of them. Do your best to align with those that carry themselves with good character and wisdom (some people can be wise beyond their years) and if you are looking for a good mate then take your time and let things carry forward naturally.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

I think once one knows the person well enough, one can determine whether said person is one that one wants to risk their bad juju exchange,

That was my point, not that one shouldn't engage in any sexual relationship at all.

 

[Turgon]

This was an interesting take. She says that the key for a woman in any relationship, is to be as authentic as possible, that your body tells you what you need and should be listened to, but for men, it's self-control. That our bodies can speak against us, and the power in being able to say no, a Stoic self-denying principle brings with it a mastery of our impulses and an unshakeable being as well as true self-esteem. Even though it's a very short clip, and more complex than that, I found myself agreeing with her.

 

[Happy Poo]

This was an interesting take. She says that the key for a woman in any relationship, is to be as authentic as possible, that your body tells you what you need and should be listened to, but for men, it's self-control. That our bodies can speak against us, and the power in being able to say no, a Stoic self-denying principle brings with it a mastery of our impulses and an unshakeable being as well as true self-esteem. Even though it's a very short clip, and more complex than that, I found myself agreeing with her.

This is interesting thanks, I was talking to a good male friend about this and he was very aware of the general male behaviour / lack of self denial regarding attractive women let's say, he decided to consciously say no and act in an ambivalent way to young women at work who were very attractive chatting him up and really trying to play on it, some just wanted the attention, or for him to buy them drinks etc lol. He decided to treat them like anyone else and not give into the temptation as they weren't the right type personality wise, and found it very empowering. Not easy though! He also acknowledged this lack of self control in males in general and was honest with himself about it, and that he may still be tempted by it although being aware of it in the first place was really important, but in his mind many guys, as in his friends did not yet recognise this as a weakness or admit it to themselves..

I mean we humans all have this weakness and lack self control or self denial to one extent or other and this subject so complicated. It's really interesting though. Just thought I'd share about our conversation specifically regarding men in this context.

 

[CelticWarrior]

I've listened to Sadia Khan talk about her interpretations on men and women. We should all strive to be authentic and have the capacity to watch our thinking>feelings>behaviors>actions.

Women don't view men they same way as men view women, the biological programming and neurochemical interactions are totally different. I'm not exactly certain that saying no is what men should be after here but more of a deeper understanding that when men are pursuing women they need to know that she is not a priority. Her instinct is to view the man engaging her as a top tier mate that can be strong and stable, but if he places her on his primary agenda, it's over.

In addition to a slow burning fire of social and emotional connection, you place a woman as being not your top concern - in the beginning. She may even get to the point of saying to herself, "does this guy even like me?" Trust me, it's a trigger that elicits your hierarchy in the attraction dynamic. Young women in particular crave attention like nothing else, so it's not exactly about rejecting women as much as proving your masculine allure through what you choose to prioritize. I'm not saying don't be a loving and caring man however because that's important for later. Just realize how powerful that masculine polarity can be and attune it precisely as you engage with her.

Her: What have you been up to? It's been two weeks :(

Him: I was busy, what's up?

Her: Oh hi!!! :) What's keeping you busy?

Yep. Checkmate. Haha.

 

[Mililea]

Her: What have you been up to? It's been two weeks :(

Him: I was busy, what's up?

Her: Oh hi!!! :) What's keeping you busy?

Yep. Checkmate. Haha.

I don't know, I mean: What's up? After two weeks??? When I read this I think of the "games" you used to play when you were younger... And less aware of what relationships are actually about, or rather, what your own desires are and why you want a relationship in the first place. And I think both men and women should simply be authentic, no matter what time it is. Otherwise, the other person doesn't have a chance to get to know you properly and can't honestly assess whether he/she could be a potential partner. I just read something today that is more about dating after a loss of a partner, but I think it can be reconsidered even without a loss. Because I think it's important to be at peace with yourself first before entering into a relationship. And for me, authenticity and honesty are absolutely paramount. Whether you are a man or a woman, you should be able to be yourself in a relationship without pretending. Otherwise everything makes no sense. And then if someone doesn't want to be with you, so be it. It can hurt and it can be hard, but it can also be a lesson.

Michelle, how do I know I'm ready to date again after loss?
Well, that's very personal to you and your journey, but I can tell you that for ME, there are four significant things to consider when considering letting someone new in your life after any loss.
#1 - Are you truly ready, or are you just lonely?
Don't date someone to complete yourself. Remember, you are whole as you are, alone. You don't want to add someone to your life just because you are lonely. Learn to love being with yourself. Learn to love dating yourself, taking care of yourself, and being by yourself. When you are solid being alone, and you've come to a place where you like your own company, you've potentially grown into someone who can appreciate being with another.
#2 - Have you done the work to heal?
Honestly, have you worked on your trauma? Have you become aware of your triggers, pain, attachment style, and history and allowed yourself the opportunity to grow and go deeper into yourself? This healing can lead to some excellent new perspectives on life and who you want in your space.
#3 - Are you on your way to becoming the very best version of yourself?
Some of the very best advice I've ever read states that if you make a list of everything you want in a potential partner (for example, fitness, health, peace, good energy, etc.) and then become that in yourself, you will attract the right kind of person into your life. I find this to be brilliant and sound advice. Work on you. Get in shape, practice gratitude, and love your life, and you will be ready for a fantastic person to help you grow even further.
#4 - Can you start again without comparing what came before?
You aren't adding to an old relationship; you are creating a new one from scratch. Whatever comes next deserves the chance to grow with you, not be compared to what came before. Each relationship is unique unto itself. No comparison is necessary.
www.onefitwidow.com (it was on her Facebook)

Because of the hormones and the chemical processes in the body that make you go crazy when you like someone, enough interferes with your behaviour anyway. I wouldn't like it if at this stage someone was also playing games with me and acting like a "macho". Would have immediately failed with me. Because also a man is only human and has feelings. And in the process of getting to know each other, I also want to know his honest feelings towards me or in general. Like networking, "how are you thinking/feeling about this and that".

Sexually I agree, you shouldn't give in to every impulse when you meet someone new. You should see it as something special, something that should have a special place. If it is to be an honest and deep relationship, then initial restraint on this point is good IMO.

 

[Turgon]

If anyone hasn't seen it yet, I definitely recommend Resurrection Ertugrul:An epic with heart and values. Hands down, it is one of my favourite tv shows of all time. And it ties into this thread as there are some epic love stories between a lot of the main characters that show what ideal relationships could look like between men and women and how that manifests itself in the world. And these unions have far-reaching effects. Really great story too as it takes place during the last stages of the Seljuk empire and early beginnings of the Ottoman's.

At 400+ episodes, it's a commitment. Just like a real relationship.

 

[Happy Poo]

I just asked a women out she said no. It took me 3-4 months to muster up the courage to do so because I’ve had my heart broken twice.

I could say imagine asking someone out and over the years falling in love all to have your heart broken!

My last heart break was one of the worst pain I felt. I wouldn’t say I was suicidal but in that moment I didn’t care if I lived or died (but I wasn’t going to cause my own death) now 7 years after that heart break after an earlier heartbreak I am ready to attempt to get back into a romantic relationship and subject myself to the chance of that pain again because I want the positive result even though the previous romantic relationships “got me in trouble”

I say all of that to say this… what do you want. Is the lack of libido or the not wanting to be physically intimate is REALLY truly holding you back then on the second or third date I would explain that you want to get to know over time first without being intimate. Develop care/love/intellectual/emotional feeling then at that point let’s say after a few months I would assess the situation.

Being intellectual about erotica or Libido doesn’t help and compounds the problem. If you are being intellectual about how you wont have libido with a women you kill your libido by being neurotic about it. This may be a defense mechanism holding you back for another reason just like it took me alllll summer to ask a women out because of past hurts they didn’t put me in a good place. You have to want the chance of the positive result more than being afraid of the negative result

Hi Menna thank you for sharing that with me, I'm sorry to hear what you went through, and to hear that she said no after you've already been through a heart break.. I sincerely hope that your heart has healed since then.
I'm trying to imagine what it was like as it's not something I've been through, and it must be very difficult..
In my case it was more like I ended up hurting someone else even though it was painful for me too.
And this felt really awful so I'm determined not to make that mistake again if i can help it!
But to have your heart broken twice!... I can't imagine.
I'm glad you are open to meeting someone again.
Thanks for the advice. It would definitely a good idea to be open and explain to them like you said, makes sense. Maybe one day if I'm ever going to go on a date haha, not anytime soon. I've never really done that just rushed in usually which wasn't the right thing to do in any way for me or others. At least I've learned not to go headlong into situations again. . And a lot more besides hopefully, still trying to work out the lessons..

 

[CelticWarrior]

I don't know, I mean: What's up? After two weeks??? When I read this I think of the "games" you used to play when you were younger... And less aware of what relationships are actually about, or rather, what your own desires are and why you want a relationship in the first place. And I think both men and women should simply be authentic, no matter what time it is. Otherwise, the other person doesn't have a chance to get to know you properly and can't honestly assess whether he/she could be a potential partner. I just read something today that is more about dating after a loss of a partner, but I think it can be reconsidered even without a loss. Because I think it's important to be at peace with yourself first before entering into a relationship. And for me, authenticity and honesty are absolutely paramount. Whether you are a man or a woman, you should be able to be yourself in a relationship without pretending. Otherwise everything makes no sense. And then if someone doesn't want to be with you, so be it. It can hurt and it can be hard, but it can also be a lesson.



Because of the hormones and the chemical processes in the body that make you go crazy when you like someone, enough interferes with your behaviour anyway. I wouldn't like it if at this stage someone was also playing games with me and acting like a "macho". Would have immediately failed with me. Because also a man is only human and has feelings. And in the process of getting to know each other, I also want to know his honest feelings towards me or in general. Like networking, "how are you thinking/feeling about this and that".

Sexually I agree, you shouldn't give in to every impulse when you meet someone new. You should see it as something special, something that should have a special place. If it is to be an honest and deep relationship, then initial restraint on this point is good IMO.

Actually, I never played any games in my twenties. In fact, I was always mature and decided to enter a long term relationship, however after my divorce I had so much fun dating and meeting new women. Now, I just play it casual and do not have any expectations of a serious relationship because my own well being and my family and friends are more important than someone who is exploring her 10,000 options. That's the reality of being a man, and you need to be one to understand how it feels to date younger women in the current market of 2023.

I do agree with you however. Assessment of a potential partnership is important and it takes a tremendous amount of time to determine her or his values, vision and lifestyle and whether or not they are suitable for the long term.

My post was just to indicate that you need not take things too seriously when dating. It should be fun, exciting, interesting and casual. If I meet a man to hang out for pool and a beer I'm not going to text him all the time or show profound intrigue at first, that's just weird. I'll apply the same principles as if I met a man, and then if there's sexual chemistry post getting to know them I'll explore that option gradually.

Remember to always put yourself first and your priority is to your objectives, routines and loved ones that are already in your life.

 

[Menna]

sorry to hear what you went through, and to hear that she said no after you've already been through a heart break

A no is fine my apprehension is actually someone saying yes and then being with them for multiple years and circumstances end the relationship. By asking women out I put myself in a position for the thing that happened 2x already to happen again. That IS the hesitation walking back into the chance of a fire.

But through “The Work” and life experiences I have to have faith that this time will be different as I am wiser. Although, it is “safer” to never get into a relationship again but it’s not a life I want to live. I am still somewhat young in my 30’s a lot of life left.

My recommendation is really think about what you want a goal or aim write it down take small steps towards it. Build momentum “life” will see it and things happen. Also try not to be so intellectual about sex/libido it’s not usual and customary to go out with someone for a first time and end up in the bedroom so you will have time before and after a date to think and feel and decide. There’s not much pressure in that department until you see someone a bunch of times at least in Western culture. Be more practical IMO don’t assume a women wants to have sex right away either as you will have to meet up and talk to them to figure that out otherwise you are just writing a fictional book in your head…I do this at times hence why I comment

 

[Alejo]

I'm not exactly certain that saying no is what men should be after here but more of a deeper understanding that when men are pursuing women they need to know that she is not a priority. Her instinct is to view the man engaging her as a top tier mate that can be strong and stable, but if he places her on his primary agenda, it's over.

So, learn to play the game pretty much? I think what you're describing applies if you're looking to play and have casual encounters, if so then yes.. I suppose play the game, understand the rules. Keep everyone at a distance from where one looks confident and strong and flawless, most people would probably see what you're showing, but very few if any would ever get to know you, which is ok if that's what you're looking for in a partner.

But if you're looking for a long term partner, then sending her the signal that she's not a priority kind of defeats the purpose. A strong stable man who plays games, is not really good for settling down long term. Because strength and stability are attractive, because of what they imply long term, OSIT

I could be wrong here, but I think you can also display strength and stability by making one woman decisively part of your agenda, not by sacrificing your life in order to chase her or rushing through the process or pushing too hard too fast (that's a recipe for disaster), but by making it clear that you're not looking to play games, and if that freaks her out, or she starts to take you for granted and maybe starts to look elsewhere, then that's a great test to learn that in this case, she is the one not ready to settle down, at which point you can move on.

Not that there's anything wrong, per se, with playing the game and keeping it casual, I mean to each their own. It has it's benefits and downfalls, gains and sacrifices, as does being in a long term relationship.

In that sense, I think the "Saying No" that Turgon was mentioning, was more about working through your weaknesses, at least that's how I understood it, it wasn't so much a formula to get girls a la "say no to girls, becase that way you'll get girls" but rather "say no to yourself, because you're wired to say yes, and if you do say yes then you're simply acting by default.. but if you say no to yourself, then you have just started to turn a weakness into a strength, bringing it closer to your agency"

 

[CelticWarrior]

So, learn to play the game pretty much? I think what you're describing applies if you're looking to play and have casual encounters, if so then yes.. I suppose play the game, understand the rules. Keep everyone at a distance from where one looks confident and strong and flawless, most people would probably see what you're showing, but very few if any would ever get to know you, which is ok if that's what you're looking for in a partner.

But if you're looking for a long term partner, then sending her the signal that she's not a priority kind of defeats the purpose. A strong stable man who plays games, is not really good for settling down long term. Because strength and stability are attractive, because of what they imply long term, OSIT

I could be wrong here, but I think you can also display strength and stability by making one woman decisively part of your agenda, not by sacrificing your life in order to chase her or rushing through the process or pushing too hard too fast (that's a recipe for disaster), but by making it clear that you're not looking to play games, and if that freaks her out, or she starts to take you for granted and maybe starts to look elsewhere, then that's a great test to learn that in this case, she is the one not ready to settle down, at which point you can move on.

Not that there's anything wrong, per se, with playing the game and keeping it casual, I mean to each their own. It has it's benefits and downfalls, gains and sacrifices, as does being in a long term relationship.

In that sense, I think the "Saying No" that Turgon was mentioning, was more about working through your weaknesses, at least that's how I understood it, it wasn't so much a formula to get girls a la "say no to girls, becase that way you'll get girls" but rather "say no to yourself, because you're wired to say yes, and if you do say yes then you're simply acting by default.. but if you say no to yourself, then you have just started to turn a weakness into a strength, bringing it closer to your agency"

"But if you're looking for a long term partner, then sending her the signal that she's not a priority kind of defeats the purpose. A strong stable man who plays games, is not really good for settling down long term. Because strength and stability are attractive, because of what they imply long term, OSIT"

You're exactly on point there Alejo. That set of qualities will be fundamental if one is seeking a partnership for the long term. It's a matter of finding the right person and then choosing to follow up with her. If the objective is to have a family and a promising future with someone then I'd say once the courtship process has begun, identify what traits and values are speaking to you. Navigating relationships takes a deep commitment in knowing yourself and others, so we are best to be prepared for that when it arises.

 

[Alejo]

You're exactly on point there Alejo. That set of qualities will be fundamental if one is seeking a partnership for the long term. It's a matter of finding the right person and then choosing to follow up with her. If the objective is to have a family and a promising future with someone then I'd say once the courtship process has begun, identify what traits and values are speaking to you. Navigating relationships takes a deep commitment in knowing yourself and others, so we are best to be prepared for that when it arises.

Good point, I recently watched a video (and I can't find it again) but the girl was suggesting to focus on values in common rather than likes in common, it made sense. Differences can be navigated (and fun and enriching even) if you both perceive life similarly. Liking the same music, the same movies or food.. that is superficial.

And I was thinking about this, I think we are born with certain things, and certain others we learn as we grow up, make mistakes, and so on. I think seeing someone's values is a lot more than learning about them, you learn about this person's life, their experiences, how they handled them, you learn about the things that they were born with. Without realizing you're seeing way beyond the merely visible and measurable. And moreover, a connection with that, is a lot stronger I would think, than mere superficial aspects of this person.

Anyway, on another note, I came across this very short video of George Lucas speaking about Anakin, and I felt it fit in this thread. Take a look.

It also made me realize that, this is the kind of stuff that used to make Star Wars so meaningful for people, even if silly or poorly directed, or poorly scripted, people remember it fondly because the above elements were present and you could pick up on them, even if poorly delivered.