Isn't suffering still an attachment to something

[PepperFritz]

Hello Dingo:

I empathize with the degree of pain you are experiencing; it takes me back to my own marriage break-ups. For me they were the life-altering shocks that Gurdjieff emphasizes are necessary to shake us from our "sleep". Those shocks blew apart and destroyed what I thought of at the time as my "being" -- but later realized was only one of many false personalities.

This is a time of almost unbearable pain -- and tremendous opportunity. You will either move forward towards wakefulness, awareness, and authenticity, or your little I's will simply regroup into a "different" false personality and the cycle will start all over again. My first marriage-breakup shock did not "take", and it was only the second one (which was accompanied by job and health loss as well) that did the trick. I was well and truly "cracked open", my little I's scattered and too weak to regroup; I was in emotional bankruptcy. It was a time of complete and utter surrender that ultimately led to a more authentic life.

The key is to own up to yourself and your own destructive, controlling, and feeding behaviour, to the imposter that you are. Admit to all the lies and manipulations, without replacing them with new ones. Have the courage to face the abyss without flinching. Which is not to say that you should "punish" yourself, that's not what it's about. It's not about right and wrong, good and bad. It's about seeing yourself and your way of being in the world with crystal clarity -- so that you can then begin to live differently, more authentically, more honestly. It won't happen overnight; there will likely be a long period of time in which you feel "adrift", neither who you were nor who you will become. The process cannot be rushed, cannot be forced, cannot be escaped, cannot be "short-cutted". But there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Now would be a good time to read the "Big Four" psychology books, to learn about the workings of your "machine": The Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout; The Narcissistic Family by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman & Robert M. Pressman; Trapped in The Mirror by Elan Goulomb; and Unholy Hungers by Barbara Hort.

It would also be a good time to review the concept of Paying All in Advance.

My thoughts are with you.

 

[RyanX]

I don't want to discontinue my study of the materials that many here learn from, but I do have to admit, I need to widen my scope, because this event has hit me like nothing else. I have no one to talk to right now and I don't know if I have been taken down the right or the wrong path.

I'm hoping there is someone that will connnect with what I have written

Dean

I can connect with what you have written. I recently ended my marriage of 9 years. It has probably been one of the biggest shocks in my life thus far. Even though I initiated the divorce, this hasn't made the process any easier.

I have had a hard time dealing with programs related to marriage and family. Looking back in a clearer state of mind, I realize I should have ended my marriage a long time ago. I was living an illusion thinking I could hold a failed marriage together. I lied to myself constantly saying that I needed to keep it together for the sake of the children. The program that a "nuclear family" is the best for raising children has been with me since childhood and it was very difficult to let go of this illusion.

I finally questioned myself thinking that "if I really want to help my children, I need to show them that it is OK to end a hurtful, distrusting and feeding relationship - instead of holding it together at all costs". I realized that I was hurting my children by setting a poor example with the dynamics displayed in my marriage. I don't want them growing up thinking that it is OK to live in such a sorry state. Without getting into many details, we were both feeding off each other in very unhealthy ways and the result was constant arguing and power games. There was no level of trust left in my relationship and this ultimately led to my decision to end it - although reluctantly at first.

I'm attempting to use this period of adjustment as a catalyst to start my own work and study the material on this forum in a deeper way. This has been an ongoing process and it is not easy. Over the past couple months the fog is lifting and I'm starting to see myself and my past relationship in a clearer light. I still think I'm far from being out of the woods, but I have hope that I can come out of this a better person.

I wish you the best on your journey.

Ryan

 

[tridean]

Hi PepperFritz,
Thank you for your reply. :)

I can see what you mean by the opportunity being presented to me. I have very strong feelings for my wife but at the same time many many questions of why and what went wrong. I have found that at times I can create ways to manage the pain by using other emotions such as hate or hope (hoping to reunite, hoping to find someone else), however I can see that this is just what you described as other false personalities and little I's. This is not the real I. It is very hard. When I see her I become extremely weak inside and on some occasions I will not be able to mask it, yet on other occasions I can act the opposite and appear strong and very helpful towards her, and even act is if it is not affecting me.

I still don't know if anything I am doing is the right thing or not, every decision I make is taking careful thinking. I feel a sense of strength when reading what you have said to me, especially about facing the abyss without flinching. I am at this point asking myself, 'what do i need to do', with no end to the statement. I ask this question as is and I instantly feel I can focus, be it on someone else talking, or whatever I happen to be doing. I have also found that focusing on my breathing has been the best way to get any sleep, as I have gone from about 8-9 hours of sleep a night to 2-3.

I have found comfort in your words on more than one occasion on this forum, and for that I am very grateful. I will be buying those books. I nearly did when I had the incident with my son and the fire he lit, but something stopped me, and I can't remember why. But not this time.

Hi Ryan,
Thank you. I can connect with a lot of what you have said. I too saw my parents go through many break ups but ultimately saw us kids as the primary reason to reunite. Amazingly they are still together but nothing has changed with them, although their biggest separation of 6 years only occurred quite recently from 2002 to 2008. It shows me the power of emotional habits and how easy it is to remain within the comfort zone even if it is hurtful. Coming out of it simply hurts more.

 

[PepperFritz]

I am at this point asking myself, 'what do i need to do', with no end to the statement. I ask this question as is and I instantly feel I can focus, be it on someone else talking, or whatever I happen to be doing.....

You've happened on something invaluable there. Many years ago, "Seth" (the entity channelled by Jane Roberts) said something that stayed with me for the rest of my life. The gist of it was that you don't need to be worrying about whether or not you should be doing this, that, and the other in order to "progress" in your personal and spiritual growth. Just deal with what is directly before you on a daily moment-by-moment basis, endeavouring to be as aware as possible. The daily challenges presented to you are your lessons, and if you face them and deal with them honestly and directly, you will learn and progress. He also advised to pay particular attention when an event or person aroused strong emotion, as it is an indication that there is something important to be learned there.

When you are in crisis, feeling paralyzed by traumatic events, concentrating on and dealing what is "immediately before you" (rather than obssessing about the past, and feeling panic-stricken anxiety about the future) is not just a coping strategy -- it is learning to BE in the present, and can become a way of life beyond the crisis at hand. After my first marriage break-up, I spent almost a year doing exactly what you are doing now, living as one of the walking wounded, not able to think or move beyond the next immediate task. But by concentrating on what was "immediately before me", I managed to keep putting one foot in front of the other, and eventually emerged from my dark night of the soul. But with more of an ability to live in the moment and "let go" of that over which I have no control.

 

[tridean]

Thankyou PepperFritz. It is still difficult to do but I know it is what needs to be done. It's interesting that only after a day or two after the split up I realized that if I was able to address the core problem with me, I'd actually be able to let her go. This quote from you readdressed this last night after getting off the phone to her...

He also advised to pay particular attention when an event or person aroused strong emotion, as it is an indication that there is something important to be learned there.

After speaking with her or seeing her I leave feeling quite down and empty. It's almost as if the longer I am away from her the better I get. But last night after speaking with her I could sense she was impatient with things, me or just with life in general and this got me down even more for while, but I could tell that my problem is the need for her to focus on me, and when she is upset, then she is trying even harder not to focus on me. It makes me sick to the stomach to know that I am this sort of person who needs the attention of another so much. I am curious to know if others have found this out about themselves and how they have addressed it. I am assuming it has deep seated history going back to childhood.

For my wife, from what I can tell she is torn between independence and family. After marrying me she allowed herself to become totally dependent on me for all sorts of things, however this never really enabled her to deal with the loss of her brother and dad, as I have never lost someone this close. She is hell bent on getting her own place, becoming independent, and she has even gone to great lengths to change her name back to her maiden name. I feel for her because she is drinking heavily, not sleeping, losing weight and she keeps getting set backs with trying to get her own place, with her car and so forth. For someone who initiated this break up and told me she never felt free-er in her life, she sure seems to be struggling. All I know is that I just have to be there for her when she asks for help for everyones sake.

You've happened on something invaluable there.

This is certainly the best way. Using other emotions is just a mask.

 

[tridean]

Now would be a good time to read the "Big Four" psychology books, to learn about the workings of your "machine": The Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout; The Narcissistic Family by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman & Robert M. Pressman; Trapped in The Mirror by Elan Goulomb; and Unholy Hungers by Barbara Hort.

Have ordered all 4 of these books. I was wondering which is the best order to read them?

Thanks
Dean

 

[PepperFritz]

Have ordered all 4 of these books. I was wondering which is the best order to read them?

Laura recommends that they be read in the following order:

The Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout;

The Narcissistic Family by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman & Robert M. Pressman;

Trapped in The Mirror by Elan Goulomb;

Unholy Hungers by Barbara Hort.