Israel-Palestine War: Hamas Breaks Out of Gaza, Israel Responds With Genocide

I feel the American and British ships will increase the tensions. It's also an opportunity for another false flag if support is waning for the Israeli massacre of the Palestinians.

There is of course previous history of Israel knowingly attacking US ships whilst at war and the US and Israel conspiring to cover up the reasons:

Israel attacked the USS Liberty in 1967; when will Washington put its special relationship aside?

June 29, 2022

Fifty-five years ago this month, Israel declared war on the United States of America. Unofficially and not in so many words, of course, but what else can it be called when Israeli armed forces launched a two hour sustained attack on a clearly marked US Navy ship in the Eastern Mediterranean during the Six Day War?

The USS Liberty was attacked by Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats off the coastline of northern Sinai and the Egyptian-controlled Gaza Strip, in international waters. According to the surviving crew members, it was easily identifiable as an American ship and, as an intelligence-gathering vessel, it was only lightly armed. It was on station to monitor events in the region, particularly in and around Egypt and Syria which were the front lines of the war.

The Israeli attack killed 34 US sailors, and wounded 171. As the casualties mounted, Israel blocked the ship’s distress signals. When communications were eventually possible, US Secretary of Defence Robert McNamara ordered twelve fighter jets and four tanker aircraft to abort their mission to defend the Liberty and return to their aircraft carrier.

As napalm and armour-piercing rounds were fired at the ship before torpedoes were used to try to sink it, survivors were shocked when they saw that it was Israelis who were attacking them. Their allies were killing them, but they did not know why.

To this day, the exact reason for the Israeli attack is not entirely clear, but some US officials and survivors believe that the Israelis were attempting to stop the ship’s listening devices overhearing that Tel Aviv was planning to seize and occupy Syria’s Golan Heights, which happened the next day.

Others theorise that Israel aimed to draw the US into the war by conducting the attack while posing as Egyptian or other Arab forces. Israel and its supporters, of course, claim that it was a friendly fire incident after the Israelis mistook the USS Liberty for an Egyptian ship, despite the fact that it was flying the American flag and had clear identification on the hull. The survivors insist that it would have been impossible for the ship not to be identified as a US Navy vessel during the many waves of the attack.

 
I highly recommend Miko Peled's short book "The General's Son", which is about an Israeli elite family gradually waking up to the truth. This should do it for everybody who's open to it. Maybe there's something on YT by him as well.

OK this video where Miko Peled summarizes some of his book is excellent. It's from 2012, but should be shared far and wide.

 
Is this true? Maybe there is some mercy for the Palestinians.

"The Ground Invasion of the Gaza Strip has reportedly been Delayed from this Weekend to next Week due to Severe Weather in the Region that will make it increasingly difficult for Aircraft Pilots and Drone Operators to conduct Air Operations in support of Israeli Ground Troops"


Looks like 4D stepped in and bought some time. Interesting.
 
Looks like 4D stepped in and bought some time. Interesting.
Well there can be a multitude of reason, it could be strategic as waiting for the second carrier group to arrive within striking distance. Assessing the Hezbollah and Iranian tread and other Muslim and Arab country. As well, the head of Hamas and Hezbollah met in Lebanon, hopefully by now Iran and Hezbollah are suspicious of Hamas (LIHOP) and did not gave them the full spectrum of their intended plan other wise, there is a good chance that Israel and the U.S. will be made aware and preparing to counter them.

As I say, there are probably many other reasons but as the C's told us in the last session, what ever come out of the U.S. and I would had Israel as at a certain level there are not much difference, is nefarious.
 
@Laurentien2 wow. that would explain the Muslim fear mongering propaganda here in the US. With all the tension arriving here. It would almost appear as if they’re trying to weaponize the Christian’s and Jews against the Muslims. There does however seem to be conflict within the groups themselves. They don’t all seem to be buying it.
 
Peterson is on his book tour. He’s doing Belfast tomorrow night and, funnily enough, there are still tickets available. So he’s posted on X about it.

I can’t comment on the post so I had to retweet it with a comment instead, but there’s plenty of people in the comments ‘giving him hell’. I hope his show is heavily disrupted:

There has always been lots of support for Palestinians from people in the north of Ireland, who can relate to their plight better than most. Ironic and just that he has an appearance scheduled there so soon after revealing himself as a supporter of violent colonisers.
 
Infiltration of paramilitary organizations is very common and almost every country does it. As one example among many, recently there was this article on SOTT: Stakeknife: The Inside Story of The British Spooks Who Ran the IRA -- Sott.net
For groups like Hamas, where new members are vouched for by other members, or tested by completing a given task/operation, it is not impossible. Identity papers can be forged, and in Gaza, where there isn't a government per se, forging identities is even easier. It is not limited to infiltration though, sometimes there are informants, corrupted insiders, etc.

In the late 80's early 90's there was a Muslim-Brotherhood organization-affiliated organization that gained some political power. A certain government arrested many of them, and put its own agents in the same prisons. The prisons were attacked and the liberated prisoners formed a paramilitary group. The agents, being the deadliest, rose to power and became de facto leaders of these groups, not only killing civilians, but also designated colleagues within the regular army when asked to, furthering the "legitimacy" of their disguise. In other words, it happens irl and it's more convoluted than what's presented in spy movies or novels.
 
Not only do all of these factors sow chaos and division... but they have collectively managed to obliterate the reputation of the "anti-war" Left. The Left is now tarnished with Wokeism, and it just so happens that the left is also predominantly alligned with the Palestinian cause.

The reason I am mentioning this here, is because I think its possible they may turn the tables yet again and flip another switcheroo.

To witness so many of the so-called "alternative-right" commentators and voices (Jordan Peterson, James Lindsay, etc) lose their mind and start baying for blood has been nothing short of enlightening. If these past three days or so are anything to go by, it would seem as though the vast majority of them are zionists (whether they know it or not). The people who have been leading the fight against Wokeism are drawing comparisons with those who support Palestine, and claiming it is a Radical Leftist/Anti-White ideology. They are quick to point out that radical leftist groups such as Antifa and BLM but just so happen to also be openly pro-Palestine.

So in many peoples' eyes, Pro-Palestine = Wokeism, defense of terrorists as "victims", and myths of white supremecy and oppression of racial minorities. It is quite understandable, because we have actually had these talking points shoved down our throats for the past 8 years at home.

To follow on from this, there are numerous mainstream media outlets which are now condemning the "fringe" elements among the left, such as Black Lives Matter, for their position on the conflict. Likewise, they are condemning any rally or protest in support of the Palestinian cause. Are they eventually going to throw them under the bus?

New york times: The Anti-Israel Left Needs to Take a Hard Look at Itself

I’m talking about the bien-pensant for whom anti-Zionism — not just legitimate opposition to various aspects of Israeli policy, but the denial of Israel’s right to exist in any form — is a respectable political position, rather than simply an updated form of antisemitism. I’m talking about United Nations rapporteurs and once-great human-rights organizations who traffic in the lie that Israel deliberately created an “open-air prison” in Gaza, never mind that Gaza shares a border with Egypt, or that Israel vacated the territory nearly 20 years ago only to be repaid by endless assaults from above and below the ground.

I’m talking about the university presidents who stand for free speech when it comes to antisemitism but become notably censorious when it comes to other forms of controversial speech. I’m talking about the political leaders who repeatedly promise solidarity with Israel only to quickly demand restraint when Israel seeks to destroy the infrastructure by which Hamas maintains its war machine. I’m talking about narratives that seem calibrated to create the outrageous impression that Israeli soldiers deliberately kill Palestinian children. I’m talking about the people whose fury at the Israeli government never seems to abate but who barely pause to observe that Hamas is a dictatorship of religious zealots or that President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority is a fulminating antisemite.

Taken together, it goes far to explain how Israel, the nation of the Jews, is routinely treated, as some have said, like “the Jew of nations,” with consequences spelled in blood. If some of the anti-Israel left find themselves looking on in horror at what happened on Saturday, now is a good time for them to take a long, hard look at themselves.

Opinion | The Anti-Israel Left Needs to Take a Hard Look at Itself

Washington Times: White House condemns criticism of Israel by far-left ‘Squad’ Democrats as ‘repugnant’​

The White House on Tuesday forcefully condemned remarks by the group of far-left House members known as the “Squad,” who appeared to blame Israel for being attacked and called for an end to U.S. aid to the Jewish state.

We believe they are wrong,” White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre told reporters. “We believe they are repugnant and we believe they are disgraceful. Our condemnation belongs squarely with terrorists who have brutally murdered, raped and kidnapped hundreds — hundreds of Israelis. There can be no equivocation about that.

“There are not two sides here,” Ms. Jean-Pierre continued. “President Biden has been clear about where he stood, you heard him directly today and you heard from him also on Saturday on this.”

The White House pushback comes after two members of the Squad suggested that Israel bears some responsibility for the terror attacks.

Rep. Cori Bush, Missouri Democratic, issued a statement lamenting the loss of both Israeli and Palestinian lives before calling for an end to U.S. support for Israel.


“As part of achieving a just and lasting peace, we must do our part to stop this violence and trauma by ending US government support for Israeli military occupation and apartheid,” she wrote.

Fellow Squad member Rep. Rashida Tlaib, Michigan Democrat, echoed Ms. Bush’s statements, saying Israel was an “apartheid government” and blasted the U.S. for “unconditional funding” to the Jewish state.

“I am determined as ever to fight for a just future where everyone can live in peace without fear and with true freedom, equal rights and human dignity. The path to that future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance,” she wrote on X.

White House condemns criticism of Israel by far-left ‘Squad’ Democrats as ‘repugnant’


Telegraph: Why liberals have ended up cheerleading for jihadism​


"The other cultural stream that has led to this extraordinary alliance between the Left and jihadism is that of American identity politics. The British branch of Black Lives Matter has shared an image of Hamas’ bulldozer smashing down the border fence, criticism of the Balfour declaration and posts that blamed Israel. Given what we know about BLM, this is shocking but hardly surprising."

Why liberals have ended up cheerleading for jihadism

The Atlantic: Students for Pogroms in Israel​

By excusing murder and kidnapping, activist groups have already changed campus politics in America.
[...]
Indeed, the dubious morality of collective punishment helps to explain why apologies for Hamas’s atrocities are a political disaster for the broad coalition of left-leaning activist organizations who have long shaped how social justice is understood on campus. Up until this point, the left’s most radical elements exerted influence disproportionate to their numbers because of the belief among their progressive allies that however zealous or utopian its members might be, their hearts were in the right place and their influence was bending the arc of history toward justice. So long as that seemed true, relative solidarity could prevail in spite of disagreements.

Virtue signaling on campus will change as radical views are seen as less virtuous. New scrutiny will be applied to concepts like “decolonization.” Academics who oppose othering and dehumanization should be newly attentive to the ways colonizer and oppressor can be misused to justify atrocities.

Students for Pogroms in Israel

Telegraph: The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity​


We also now know what many proponents of woke Critical Race Theory truly believe. UK Black Lives Matter retweeted approvingly a picture of the terrorist bulldozer smashing down the Israeli fence, an attack on the Balfour declaration and messages blaming Israel. It rejected David Lammy’s condemnation of Hamas, and retweeted “‘Black lives matter’ and ‘I stand with Israel’ are two things that can’t coexist.” Chicago BLM tweeted an image of the terrorists entering Israel on a paraglider.

The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

Financial Times: Left’s take on Hamas stuns American Jews — and threatens Democratic party split

“Why can’t we find anything approaching the moral clarity of Harvard statements after George Floyd’s death or Russia’s invasion of Ukraine when terrorists kill, rape and take hostage hundreds of Israelis attending a music festival?” Summers wrote in another post. On Wall Street, Marc Rowan, a founder of private equity giant Apollo Global Management, called for the sacking of the president at his alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania, for fostering a “selective tolerance” in which antisemitic groups thrived. He also urged fellow donors to join him in closing their wallets."

Left’s take on Hamas stuns American Jews — and threatens Democratic party split | Financial Times

NBC: The left faces a reckoning as Israel divides Democrats​


American Jews, who are overwhelmingly liberal, have often supported social justice movements. Simonds said while most progressive leaders have offered support, he feels betrayed by others on the left who have not.

“It’s not going to change the way we look at justice,” Simonds said. “It’s going to change the way we look at our allies.”

Israel has been so fraught in some progressive circles that many preferred not to talk about it, enforcing a sort of strategic silence to avoid dividing the movement and distracting it from common ground issues.

That long-stifled debate is now spilling into public view in heated and sometimes ugly ways, dividing Democrats and exposing what some say is antisemitism that has been allowed to fester on the left for years.

“There needs to be some soul searching about the extent of antisemitism within these groups such that these organizations are blinded to the worst form of terrorism,” said Rep. Shri Thanedar, D- Mich., who renounced his membership in Democratic Socialists of America on Wednesday after several of the group’s chapter seemed to applaud Hamas’ attack.
[..]
And antisemitic conspiracy theories about the attack and misinformation claiming no Israeli civilians were harmed have been promoted on social media accounts linked to the Black Lives Matter movement.

That kind of reaction sparked a reckoning on the left that has some warning that the progressive movement risks swiftly erasing the gains they painstakingly accrued in the years since Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Va., himself Jewish, ran for president and re-invigorated the left in 2016.

The left faces a reckoning as Israel divides Democrats

The Hill: Cheering terrorism: Democrats must deal with their far-left antisemitism problem

If we’re ever going to obtain peace in the Middle East, we’re going to have to confront the reality of rabid antisemitism, not only in the Muslim world, but also in the the Democratic Party and in the news and cultural media whose political arm the Democrats comprise.

It’s easier to pretend it’s not there, but that won’t change anything. At some point soon, the party leadership will have to make a choice: either stand up to the strident hatred of Jews simmering under the surface of its progressive left wing or continue to let it simmer until it boils over.
[..]
Will the Democratic Party confront the dangerous antisemitic extremists who are in good standing in their own ranks? Don’t hold your breath, especially when the media are so unwilling to hold them accountable.

Cheering terrorism: Democrats must deal with their far-left antisemitism problem


Telegraph: The Hamas war has made Trump seem far better than Biden on the Middle East​


Finally, no matter how strongly the Democrats might cleave to a revived pro-Israel consensus, the fact remains that they have flirted with organisations now exposed as troublingly fringe – and with intellectual currents being used to justify violent “decolonisation” (Black Lives Matters appears firmly in the corner of the Palestinian resistance, suggesting that some lives matter more than others).

By embracing fads that question the superiority of Judeo-Christian values, the liberal-Left has helped to erode the self-confidence of the West. It should not have taken the murder of Israelis, or the invasion of Ukraine, to reunite and energise our civilisational ethic – to remind us that the sanctity of life is a universal value, not a matter for academic debate.

The Hamas war has made Trump seem far better than Biden on the Middle East

Boston Herald: Sorry Far-Lefties, America stands with Israel against terror

The Democratic Socialists of America are also feeling the fallout after the New York City chapter’s pro-Palestinian rally over the weekend. The group apologized, but refused to directly condemn the Hamas terrorists behind the slaughter. Some members are resigning.

The terrorist sympathizers and victim blamers are missing an important point: Americans don’t stand with them.
According to The Hill, a recent The Economist/YouGov poll revealed more Americans sympathizing with Israelis than with Palestinians amid the conflict.
Editorial: Sorry Far-Lefties, America stands with Israel against terror


New York Times: The Massacre in Israel and the Need for a Decent Left

It’s too early to know how the left’s widespread failure of solidarity will change our politics, but I suspect some sort of fracture is coming. Part of me thinks this could be a moment like after the 1956 Soviet invasion of Hungary, which, coupled with revelations about the evils of Stalinism, led many left intellectuals to break with communism. Though perhaps that’s too grandiose an analogy for an amorphous campus-bred left-wing tendency that communicates in hashtags and sound bites. On social media, some scholars and activists are repeating the line “Decolonization is not a metaphor,” suggesting that the homicidal spree we just saw in Israel is not a departure from their ideology but the embodiment of it. I suspect they will come to regret it if people take them at their word.

Opinion | The Massacre in Israel and the Need for a Decent Left


Newsweek: Coca-Cola Under Pressure Over Alleged Black Lives Matter Donation​

Conservatives are criticizing Coca-Cola for allegedly donating to the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, which recently came under fire after at least one chapter shared pro-Palestinian messages on social media, while others demand proof.

On October 7, Hamas led the deadliest Palestinian militant attack on Israel in history. Israel subsequently launched its heaviest-ever airstrikes on Gaza. As of Friday, at least 2,800 people had been killed on both sides, the Associated Press reported.

The antisemitism claims in CPAC's post appear to refer to a graphic shared by Black Lives Matter Chicago. On October 10, the branch was accused of supporting the recent Hamas attacks on Israel after sharing an image of a soldier paragliding with a Palestinian flag, alongside the caption: "I stand with Palestine."

The post sparked an uproar. Black Lives Matter Chicago deleted the post shortly afterward, before apologizing on October 11.

Coca-Cola under pressure over alleged Black Lives Matter donation

Newsweek: Tomi Lahren's Black Lives Matter Message Sparks Outrage​


On Wednesday, she shared several messages condemning those that support Black Lives Matter (BLM), saying it supported "international terror organizations."

Her statements followed a now-deleted post from a BLM chapter in Chicago that allegedly celebrated Hamas attacks on Israeli citizens. It has since issued an apology.


Politico: ‘Unacceptably devoid of empathy': DSA is facing an internal reckoning on Israel

NEW YORK — The Democratic Socialists of America is coming apart at the seams.

Rep. Jamaal Bowman let his membership lapse. Colleague Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ripped the New York chapter over a pro-Palestinian rally Sunday. And others on the left are struggling to reconcile their views with the group — even disavowing it amid criticism from across the political spectrum.

The reckoning for the DSA in the wake of Hamas’ attacks on Israel could mark a realignment at the extreme end of the Democratic Party. Progressive politicians looking for an endorsement from the DSA have long faced a Middle East litmus test, answering questions about whether they’ll boycott Israel and if they back Palestinians “living under occupation.”


The brutality Saturday — violence of a greater scope and intensity than earlier Israeli-Palestinian clashes — has shaken some who had been boosted by the DSA. And the blowback has been felt across Congress, statehouses and city halls where the party has made inroads.
[..]
“Are you going to be a candidate, in New York, especially, who understands that New York Jews increasingly see the DSA as explicitly an antisemite organization?” she asked in an interview.

Republicans have sought to link DSA members to mainstream Democrats.


In New York, GOP state senators urged Democratic leadership to strip its handful of DSA members of their committee and leadership posts — a move that will put pressure on moderate Democrats to address.

At City Hall in New York City, Republicans and Democrats who run on the GOP line told their DSA-aligned counterparts in statement: “There is no equivalency. There is no ‘both sides’ argument. There is no moral relativism. This is pure evil.”

“This weekend has made a few things enormously clear: Israel has a right to defend itself from brutal attacks, and this conflict requires a long-term peaceful solution,” said Spitalnick, now the CEO of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs.

Spitalnick said Ocasio-Cortez’s denunciation of the rally struck the right tone.

“It’s important to acknowledge that she actually did the right thing there and called out this rally, whether it’s a DSA rally or whoever sponsored it,” Spitalnick said.

She added, “There are definitely some voices that have not been able to express that moral clarity this weekend.”

'Unacceptably devoid of empathy': DSA is facing an internal reckoning on Israel

The Spectator: Do Jewish Lives Matter?

It’s extraordinary. It was virtually mandatory to show online solidarity with George Floyd. Anyone who failed to say ‘Black Lives Matter’ on their Instagram page could find themselves hounded and shamed. Now such solidarity is outlawed. Say ‘Israeli Lives Matter’ and watch yourself get cancelled. ‘Why do you hate Palestinians?!’, armies of plummy Israelophobic loons will holler.

What a grim insight we’re getting into the racial hierarchies fashioned by identitarians and influencers. In their minds, the life of one African-American counts for more than the lives of a thousand Jews.
How else do we explain that the killing of Floyd made them furious, for months on end, whereas the racist elimination of Jewish youths and Jewish grandmothers and entire Jewish families barely seems to have pricked their consciences at all. This is the inhuman hole you end up in when you organise humanity into boxes marked ‘oppressed’ or ‘privileged’ and judge their moral worth accordingly.

Do Jewish Lives Matter too?

And of course, the Zionists at the ADL have flipped the switch against "fringe-left groups":

Some fringe-left groups are aligning with anti-Zionist organizations in the wake of Hamas's attack on Israel, by expressing support for Hamas’s atrocities in the name of “resistance” and “liberation.” The Party for Socialism and Liberation, the World Workers Party, chapters of the Democratic Socialists for America, independent chapters of Black Lives Matter and more have shared these views in official statements and on social media. These groups are also helping to organize in-person, anti-Israel events, where participants are sharing further support for terrorism and violence, as well as expressing antisemitic rhetoric.

Fringe-Left Groups Express Support for Hamas’s Invasion and Brutal Attacks in Israel

Here are some more links that I found, which condemn the lefties who are protesting, with many warning of the "danger of antisemitism".


It will be interesting to see how this eventually plays out, but it seems as though they might be planting the seeds for a "switch" of some kind in the coming months.
 
Last edited:
To follow on from this, there are numerous mainstream media outlets which are now condemning the "fringe" elements among the left, such as Black Lives Matter, for their position on the conflict. Likewise, they are condemning any rally or protest in support of the Palestinian cause. Are they eventually going to throw them under the bus?

Yeah, and if the YouTube algorithm is anything to go by, the official line clearly is Israel good, leftist crticism of it bad. I even searched for "israeli narrative debunked" or something like that, and all I got was... the Israeli narrative.

I guess there are some figures in the media and politics who are pro-palestinian, after all there is a certain overlap between this crowd and the wokesters. But it seems they are now being purged or bullied into line (if they don't realize it themselves and opportunistically change their tune). Will be interesting to observe how that develops.
 
And so here we are—mid-October!
With so much terror and agitation in the air, the mainstream media has already provided the 'required' costumes for Halloween...
Is anybody willing to dress as a comet to spoil the party? 😅
 
OK this video where Miko Peled summarizes some of his book is excellent. It's from 2012, but should be shared far and wide.


Katie Halper had a short talk with Peled last week, worth a listen.


Yeah, and if the YouTube algorithm is anything to go by, the official line clearly is Israel good, leftist crticism of it bad. I even searched for "israeli narrative debunked" or something like that, and all I got was... the Israeli narrative.

Yeah, it's hard to find the objective voices, but I found this channel recently, the Naturalist Capitalist. He often has firebrand voices on, like Ryan Dawson and Scott Horton. Today Horton came on for a 1hr chat on the PNAC and how the general western policy dovetails with the Zionist entity. I don't believe for a second that this is so clear cut. There's a lot of blackmailing going on in the background, but clearly most western nations are compromised. It looks plain as day to be a re-run of the Atlantean catastrophe now, the motions of a blind beast driven to control all and everything. It's a curious situation; the old traditional divides about left and right no longer make sense, we have to take this forward on an issue by issue basis. At this point, there's a terrible imbalance on this, but I still have a slim hope that more people will come to question the depth of their programming.

 
Knesset member from the "Our Home is Israel" party, former Israeli ambassador to the United States Daniel Ayalon - on the air of Al Jazeera TV channel.
Presenter:
- Netanyahu said that each [refugee from Gaza] will have a place to live. Where should they go?
Ayalon:
- We don't tell them, "Go to the beach and drown yourself," no, nothing like that. There's an infinite amount of space in the Sinai desert, right across from Gaza. The idea is this - and this won't be the first time something like this has been done - so the idea is this: they will live in open space, and we and the international community will prepare the infrastructure ... you know, tent cities with food and water. Like in Syria, for those who fled from the butcher Assad a few years ago; like in Turkey, where there are two million of them [after the earthquake], it's a temporary measure, it's...
- You mean kick everyone out through Rafah to Egypt?
- Yes. Absolutely. And Egypt is going to have to accept them, because we're talking about people's lives. We want to open a humanitarian corridor to get them out, but if Hamas...
- You told everyone to take the corridor to the Egyptian border, towards the Rafah checkpoint, right?
- Of course. Where else?
- What do you mean where?!To your country! Let them go to Israel!
(Daniel Ayalon shakes his head and smiles).
- Stop smiling! You talk about a corridor to Egypt, but you bomb them! You want to save them, but you won't let them in!
- I'm not smiling, my heart is crying.....
 
Back
Top Bottom