Jake Sully, Anonymous and "WhatIsThePlan" - PsyOps?
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Jakesully
Jedi
Guardian said:
I told firstmonkey and Mavendetta many, many times that they needed to vet the WITP mods to ensure none of them are fed informants. If you were to ask firstmonkey, he could verify this.
I hold no ill-will towards you or anyone in this situation.
I'm responding to requests for information. At such a time as I can't provide any more useful information, I'll leave.
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Jakesully said:
Again - that is not up to you. You're only being allowed to post here right now as a privilege on the off chance that we can learn more, whether you mean us to or not. That won't last forever. In fact, I'd bet my last slice of bacon that it won't last much longer, and certainly not as long as you and your friends think it will.
Buddy
The Living Force
Megan said:
Interesting timing! I was just about to post this:
Jakesully said:
Sans empirical evidence related to the gov't/military, it seems likely you're just infatuated with an over-used term that now seems to connote ordinary lying.
Jakesully said:
I really wish people wouldn't talk as if condition has volition.
This is like that CHADD BS I mentioned earlier. Basically the idea of appealing for accommodation for a 'disorder' from 'non-disadvantaged' people. People that you think generally perceive those differences from the bias of that cultural distortion: 'disorder'.
Of course, some still do view from that window, but I hope it's not the majority view here.
Jakesully said:
Oxymoron when talking about anon type groups? As you are familiar with Gurdjieff or Mourieff, I would have thought you realized that the 'talking head' administrator is not the controller of the body or organism, though it flatters itself otherwise.
mcb
The Living Force
Gimpy said:
You wouldn't necessarily see all of these traits in an adult Aspie, and some people resolve more and more of the issues as they get older. For me the ones you marked in bold have been easier to do something about, along with the empathy issue (which may have more to do with communication of empathy than with actual possession of it). I would replace "Lack of managing appropriate social conduct" with "Lack of social reciprocity."
There may be other pathological types that get lumped into Asperger's, and that might be where some of the "bad Aspies" come from. The "experts" that do the diagnosing sometimes can't tell the difference.
I will keep an open mind for a while, but JakeSully has not thus far struck me as the Aspie type. It occurs to me that being an Aspie really may have little to do with what we are seeing anyway -- another distraction. It feels to me like JakeSully is wasting our time, though some of the other dialogue has been interesting.
Let me just add something here: this forum exists for a particular purpose - to engage in work on the self in a style similar to that of Gurdjieff and Castaneda's Don Juan with input from the Cassiopaean Experiment which includes striving to achieve objectivity (studying the world as it is which is a BIG JOB and takes up a lot of our time). That purpose is stated clearly in the forum guidelines. When anyone joins the forum, they have to click "I agree" to those guidelines. It is assumed that when a person does that, they have read what they are agreeing to.
We, of course, understand that there are some individuals who simply do not have the emotional/psychological stability for such a school. We observe them and if there is the slightest sign of such instability, they are banned for 1) the protection of the decorum of the school; 2) their own protection.
Quite often, people come along and read the discussions and think "Oh boy, have I got something to say about that!" and they join, skip reading the guidelines, and jump in with both feet and end up getting banned in about 2 seconds. Why? Because it is clear that they did not even bother to read the guidelines and they thought, mistakenly, that this is just any old discussion forum and they can join and make demands and try to impose their way/views on the school.
So, when they are banned, they all run screaming to some other forum and complain that this is a "cult" and we only want "yes-men" when that isn't a very accurate description of what happened. They all forget to mention that what they had done was try to exert THEIR control and demands on others FIRST. That is, actually, what my new article is all about: Freedom of Association. See:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/234316-Freedom-of-Association-Smoking-and-Psychopathy
You will read in this article an example of this exact dynamic. As I wrote there:
"This is something we have encountered again and again and again. We get accused of being a cult, NOT because we try to control or dominate people and force them to become slaves to us, but because we kick out the pathologicals and they can't stand the fact that we have chosen not to associate with them! How dare we reject them!?"
We, of course, understand that there are some individuals who simply do not have the emotional/psychological stability for such a school. We observe them and if there is the slightest sign of such instability, they are banned for 1) the protection of the decorum of the school; 2) their own protection.
Quite often, people come along and read the discussions and think "Oh boy, have I got something to say about that!" and they join, skip reading the guidelines, and jump in with both feet and end up getting banned in about 2 seconds. Why? Because it is clear that they did not even bother to read the guidelines and they thought, mistakenly, that this is just any old discussion forum and they can join and make demands and try to impose their way/views on the school.
So, when they are banned, they all run screaming to some other forum and complain that this is a "cult" and we only want "yes-men" when that isn't a very accurate description of what happened. They all forget to mention that what they had done was try to exert THEIR control and demands on others FIRST. That is, actually, what my new article is all about: Freedom of Association. See:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/234316-Freedom-of-Association-Smoking-and-Psychopathy
You will read in this article an example of this exact dynamic. As I wrote there:
"This is something we have encountered again and again and again. We get accused of being a cult, NOT because we try to control or dominate people and force them to become slaves to us, but because we kick out the pathologicals and they can't stand the fact that we have chosen not to associate with them! How dare we reject them!?"
un chien anadolu
Jedi Master
Laura said:
If only they were using "Cult" as an acronym for Collective Ultimate Laboring for Truth.
I just read a hilarious comment on my article that I'm going to include here because it really brings the focus back to what this is all about: a pathological ex-partner of a woman with two children who not only does not pay her a cent to support her children, but is also stalking her - and stalking US to terrorize her because she is a member of this forum.
Very strange. Just after I made the last post, I checked my email and found the following from the "WhatIsThePlan" forum sent to me by a correspondent:
Google cached it before they restricted access. Looks like they have moved most of the General Discussion board to a restricted zone. I seem to remember seeing part of it before, so apologies if I'm repeating old news.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:swMKXxeEB0MJ:www.whatis-theplan.org/t14167-cassiopaea-raid-thread+%22So,+wanna+pretend+like+you%27re+a+*REAL*+Anonymous+faggot%3F+%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a
and:
_http://www.whatis-theplan.org/t14226-expert-trolling-on-cassiopaea-forum
Ya know, back in the 60s and 70s, activists had ideals and a certain morality that stood up against oppression. They didn't persecute innocent people who only defended themselves. Geeze, even the Mafia has more morals than this stuff exhibits (see last post).
I'd really like to know what Anonymous stands for and against? Or is it just general rage that destroys for the fun of it?
Google cached it before they restricted access. Looks like they have moved most of the General Discussion board to a restricted zone. I seem to remember seeing part of it before, so apologies if I'm repeating old news.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:swMKXxeEB0MJ:www.whatis-theplan.org/t14167-cassiopaea-raid-thread+%22So,+wanna+pretend+like+you%27re+a+*REAL*+Anonymous+faggot%3F+%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a
and:
_http://www.whatis-theplan.org/t14226-expert-trolling-on-cassiopaea-forum
Ya know, back in the 60s and 70s, activists had ideals and a certain morality that stood up against oppression. They didn't persecute innocent people who only defended themselves. Geeze, even the Mafia has more morals than this stuff exhibits (see last post).
I'd really like to know what Anonymous stands for and against? Or is it just general rage that destroys for the fun of it?
Giray Khan the Brave
Jedi
FWIW, I've been following this thread with my mouth literally hanging open as wide as the Hindenburg's hangar door and having now managed to close it would like to contribute with an (albeit personal) summary of what I've witnessed and what it means to me:
1) First and above all I am lost in admiration at the competence and patience of our mods. You guys have a weird combination of thick skin and sensitivity (I don't know how else to describe it) that is SO spot on! I don't know how you did it but from where I'm sitting it looked very much like you somehow transformed a tsunami of confusion and attack into a large but ultimately gentle swell that in the end did nothing but break gently against your backs. Not only that but you also transmuted potential vectors of attack into a platform for civilised debate and exchange of knowledge. Laura, you're probably aware of this but you have an absolutely cracking team doing amazing work here!
2) Switching analogies from the nautical to the medical for a moment, the start of this episode and the way that the mods immediately mobilised in defense was a bit like an organism coming under attack from an external source (i.e. bacteria). I believe (like many others in this forum) that this was a deliberate attempt at infection which failed miserably due to the incredible actions of the organism's immune system (the mods, Laura and Guardian). However, the point I really want to make here is this: what the organism initially perceives as an 'infection' may actually be an 'inoculation', in other words an episode of mutual pattern recognition between the 'organism' (the Cassiopaea forum) and the 'external organisms' (the Anons). I'll say it again: as a result of the actions of the mods an attack was transformed into an opportunity that no one could have seen coming, an opportunity for us to meet a potential rival on home turf and to forge a mutual understanding which couldn't have happened any other way. I may be exaggerating but I think not. The positive repercussions of this event are and will be, I believe, very real.
3) Last but not least, if battle lines are now being drawn and one side is fighting with black budgets in the trillions and the other side is fighting with politically inappropriate dog toys and chicken feet then I'm afraid there's no contest which side I'm going to be on! All I need to know is where exactly do I hang the chicken feet?
1) First and above all I am lost in admiration at the competence and patience of our mods. You guys have a weird combination of thick skin and sensitivity (I don't know how else to describe it) that is SO spot on! I don't know how you did it but from where I'm sitting it looked very much like you somehow transformed a tsunami of confusion and attack into a large but ultimately gentle swell that in the end did nothing but break gently against your backs. Not only that but you also transmuted potential vectors of attack into a platform for civilised debate and exchange of knowledge. Laura, you're probably aware of this but you have an absolutely cracking team doing amazing work here!
2) Switching analogies from the nautical to the medical for a moment, the start of this episode and the way that the mods immediately mobilised in defense was a bit like an organism coming under attack from an external source (i.e. bacteria). I believe (like many others in this forum) that this was a deliberate attempt at infection which failed miserably due to the incredible actions of the organism's immune system (the mods, Laura and Guardian). However, the point I really want to make here is this: what the organism initially perceives as an 'infection' may actually be an 'inoculation', in other words an episode of mutual pattern recognition between the 'organism' (the Cassiopaea forum) and the 'external organisms' (the Anons). I'll say it again: as a result of the actions of the mods an attack was transformed into an opportunity that no one could have seen coming, an opportunity for us to meet a potential rival on home turf and to forge a mutual understanding which couldn't have happened any other way. I may be exaggerating but I think not. The positive repercussions of this event are and will be, I believe, very real.
3) Last but not least, if battle lines are now being drawn and one side is fighting with black budgets in the trillions and the other side is fighting with politically inappropriate dog toys and chicken feet then I'm afraid there's no contest which side I'm going to be on! All I need to know is where exactly do I hang the chicken feet?
Giray Khan the Brave
Jedi
Laura said:
Hi Laura, I understand your frustration but I'm afraid that when talking about Anon such questions are meaningless. As an example think of those force vectors that we were taught in high school physics (represented as arrows of varying lengths) and now think of 2-3 million of these little arrows pointing in random directions. Depending on the aggregate (averaged out) force and direction of these millions of these tiny arrows the whole system will move nowhere if these arrows are truly random; if there is even a tiny 'bias' in the aggregate vector, the whole system will move slowly but inexorably in one direction even though they may still be a million arrows pulling in the exact opposite direction.
When I try to model Anon in my head I think of at least two 'biases' in the system: an above average knowledge of IT and a desire to make a very noticeable change in the world. Beyond this, the bias (i.e. what action the system ultimately takes at a given time) is (in a way) random and takes hold in the same way that trends and fads take hold in large communities of people. No one knows exactly why a certain pop song becomes a huge hit nor why skirt lengths change when they do. It is the same way with Anon: there are millions of them all shouting out different agendas, targets and causes and these may even be mutually contradictory but sometimes a certain bias will take hold and the vectors of force will build up in one definite direction and then the target will be facing an attack which is de-centralised, random but also devastating. In one sense Anon is like the hordes of Genghis Khan: you never know where they are, you never know when or where they will turn up, they have no central location you can attack or even reason with and after an attack they disappear into the landscape.
Reading the thread on _http://www.whatis-theplan.org/t14226p15-expert-trolling-on-cassiopaea-forum you will see that 'Nightingale' (Anon Organiser) says:
and
Coming back to your above questions, there are probably 2-3 million different answers to those depending on who in Anon you ask. FWIW though, reading through the thread mentioned above it strikes me that even though some people on whatis-theplan.org want to attack us for the lulz, quite a few others are a bit taken aback and surprised by how openly and honestly the mods here responded to the whole thing and are actually considering the revolutionary concept that we might not actually be a cult.
Again Nightingale:
and
Looking at the posts of those who do want to attack us, I can see two general trends: 1) Some of those who want to attack us are simply nothing but bullies who want to hide behind a muscle-bound shoulder and join in an attack because that's how they get their kicks. 2) The slightly more sensible ones (I emphasise 'slightly') see in us a leader (i.e. Laura) and a large group of followers who follows their leader blindly and accepts everything she says. This kind of setup is against their anti-autoritarianist and de-centralised beliefs so, ergo, we are a target for attack simply on principle even if we're not a cult.
What I personally find extremely frustrating about this whole thing is how much we actually have in common and how parallel our two discourses are in many ways and yet there will always be some of them who will persist in seeing us as a cult (or if not a cult then as a large group of confused people blindly following a silly idea). They will never get the fact that one major reason we gather here is that we either rejected or got rejected by the same systems that they are so much against or that they will be hard put to find such a group of varied, disaffected and uncomfortable people anywhere else, even amongst themselves.
The major difference I can see between them and us is that our disaffection and discomfort goes much much deeper than theirs does and we fight by gathering knowledge and not by attack. We are inward seeking; in a way we seek the blame within ourselves and strive to fix this blame, they see the blame outside of themselves and strive to fix this blame by attack. Other than that (in a very large and definite way) our enemies are mutual...
Giray Khan the Brave said:
Thanks, Giray, for the analysis. I admit that I only read what was sent to me and did not go to read the whole thread. I rely on others to keep me informed about many things because I have so much work in front of me I can't possibly do everything!
I, too, thought that our "enemies are mutual" and usually when that is the case, it follows naturally that there is some degree of mutual support. But that is where (and undoubtedly WHY) the pathological types (or "agents" - whether you want to call them COINTELPRO or whatever) come in seeking to turn natural allies against each other. They've been doing that for millennia and the only ones that come out on top are the oppressors, psychopaths, etc. And, of course, as a result, nothing ever changes or it gets worse, as we see today.
Perhaps another difference is age? Most of the members of this forum are just simply older. Some of us were activists in the 60s and 70s and still idealistic though we've been seriously burned out and realized how futile things are as long as there are elements that keep turning people who truly seek a better world against each other. I guess that's why I took the direction I did: I didn't see any real answers in all the other directions.
Anyway, as I said, thanks for the explanation/analysis.
Guardian
The Cosmic Force
Giray Khan the Brave said:
After reading their sites, and conversing with some of them directly, the only differences I see are all related to age...as least for me. I can tell most of them are young because every time I visit one of their sites I have to hit the "Ctrl +" key three or four times. No one over the age of 40 uses fonts that small.
I was just like some of them 30+ years ago, same morals and values, and a LOT more energy. I'm willing to bet most of them can still out run a cop, or at least give the pig a run for his money. These days the donut eating goon could just jog along behind me and wait for me to keel over from a heart attack.
I see MANY generational differences, especially relating to how they use technology, but I didn't find even one conflicting desire for humanity. I think they want the same thing we do ...FREEDOM from oppression for ALL people, including the brown, black and amber ones.
I'm not surprised that they discounted "Jean's" claim we're a "Cult" either...they may be many things, but stupid is not one of them. All they had to do was read the forum to see that we don't even have a "Belief" to try and shove down the throats of others. Our beliefs are constantly changing as we learn new things, and NOTHING is written in stone.
From what I can tell, "Jean" tried to use their community to harass his ex-wife and get control of their children, then a professional snitch (Alex Berta) jumped in and tried to use the opportunity to further infiltrate Anon, and take a swipe a SOTT.net at the same time. Jakesully gave them a perfect "in" by being an egotistical shythead...if not a paid agitator himself (still not sure which yet)
It didn't work because the Anons already know how individuals try to use their "hives" for personal beefs AND they've already exposed their fair share of snitches. Instead, we got an education regarding how their groups (sorta) function, and we met some really kewl people in the process. Pretty much everybody knows Scientology is a cult at this point, but some of their groups are actually DOING something about it, and I'm a huge fan of "Doing something about it"
The whole trolling thing can be kinda funny too, in the sense that some people just take themselves wayyyyy to seriously. I think the trolling "message" that we all need to know how to laugh at ourselves is very valid too.
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