G
Guest
Guest
What Rense.com is not talking about
This is not "name-calling" and you know it. This is an exploration into a source of confusion. A twister of meanings any which way. And this time the focus will stay because reply after reply, you reveal more of yourself. I am sorry to others if I will seem a bit forward. I do so because I believe being direct is best here.
So I pose the question: When does the group come up and tell a member that they have no place being here? What exactly is that quality that would make others say such a thing? You are trying to say that it's because of some "party line" thing. If that was true the forum would have petered out into nothing long ago. All would have been said, people would have gotten bored, and membership would have dwindled to a "select few".
On the contrary, I see the numbers increasing. And that is occuring because new things are beings said, and old ideas are being approached in new and refreshing ways. OTHER forums play favourites. OTHER forums mark undersireables, give them the once over and that's it. Here, unless they are insulting, abusive or just spouting stuff without substance, people are given the benefit of the doubt, often to the discomfort of many other members.
So quit whining. You have your say, and say what you want no matter how others are bothered by it. I would say your position here is pretty privelidged. Some people even think you mean well. I disagree. You see, when someone is called on the carpet here there is one issue over-riding others. Sincerity.
If you could skillfully play devil's advocate, I would be the first to applaud you. THAT would be useful. But that's not what you're doing. All I see is ad-hoc definitions, contradictions, and a tendency to basically whatever suits you at the moment. Your window is argument/counter-argument.
Bizarre!? It would be to any OP. Anyone can check the various discussions on OP's and see that the pattern of your responses pretty much is a good example of OP resistance to knowledge related to individuation. And anyone reading those threads will also know that there is no such thing as "name-calling" regarding OP's.
It's not an insult. It's a human condition, natural for some, and temporary for others. So there isn't even an issue of me calling you names. Psychopath? I don't think so, but such symptoms can occur when OP's are stressed through too much contact with the "bizarre". All that has been discussed.
The phrase in bold would make sense if I had a motive. Defense occurs after attack. I was not attacked, so do not feel threatened. For all I care, I could just ignore this thread until people get tired of you on their own, or you get scratched. The way I see it, however, is that there are some valuable and rapid-fire lessons presented here. And the more members can absorb them the faster they will come.
Why? Because this seems to be the only venue of its kind, blending practical world issues with what you call the bizarre, or thinking outside the box. And since things do not seem to be so stable in the world it pays to keep the lesson flow going. From my observations many members have greatly increased their resiliency to attack already. Understanding is going through the roof, if you compare it with the state of society today.
Eventually, it's going to reach a state of saturation, and a non-linear cascade will occur where what is going on in this forum will spill over in a noticeable way. For this to happen, a sequence of lessons needs to be grokked by a critical number of people. The way I see it, the lessons need to keep coming, because the tension they generate stimulates growth and inner strength. This inner strength is the support for all those people out there beyond this venue who are lost and calling for help. So lost they cannot even find their way here.
Inner strength born of knowledge is a tangible effect on the world. People don't find solutions because they are afraid. They are afraid because they feel weak. What they need is the possibility of knowledge presented to them through examples of strength. They do not need to be told what to do, but inspired toward what they can be. Preaching has not worked, but inspiring through example does.
Some members may already have an understanding that they are evolving to be examples. Examples do not need to practice a particular skill. They just need to be themselves in any area of life where they find themselves. What this world needs is examples of strength, and it has to start somewhere. The enemy is disinformation, but the solution is to experience the strength that knowledge provides. This can only happen through running the gauntlet of lessons the Universe so generously provides.
If you think I can make others do the "work" for me, then you have no clue as to how the Universe works. I have had my time of trying to escape the lessons presented to me. I just wanted a normal life. It's damn good to be an OP with a nice teaching job, a good spouse, kids, a house a bit of writing on the side, trips to the beach and all the comforts of middle class OP living.
The difference is that when the pressure was on to learn I knew what the consequences would be if I didn't. There IS no passing the buck here. So regardless of what I am posting here, I am involved in my "work", and it is not easy. Intellectual snob? I've been humbled enough in life to know that being a snob is foolish at best. Ostrich head in the sand? If that was true my head would have been cut off already. As for being intellectual, that is just a form of expression, because clear communication without drama is what is needed here.
No, I am not those things because my true motives are based on what I see, and what I see is a possibility of great strength in people gained through knowledge. I'm here to offer some experience, and also to participate in the same lessons presented before others because I need to be stronger myself.
And I do think you feel threatened, although you hide it well. Of course you hide it. You can't let them see you sweat, can you? To you this is a battle, maybe a battle against the "bizarre". After all, you are pretty reasonable when addressing other topics. The thing is that strength comes from outside the box, because when you grow that is what you grow into.
Ruth, you are a sincere supporter of the Matrix, that at least should be obvious to people. When things are expressed that do not directly threat the matrix, you are fine. When knowledge, however, looms over the horizon you react in ways that many here consider predictable, maybe even in Pavlovian fashion. It is obvious you want to set limits to knowledge, and do not want that knowledge to become strength in people. If it does, the foundations of the Matrix our threatened. And to me, Ruth, the Matrix is your home.
No, Ruth. It's time to call a spade a spade. You are spreading confusion and nothing more. You have called attention to yourself, and people responded. You are a focus ANYWAY, so you might as well be of use. I do not post my opinions (and they are opinions, by the way, although opinions I believe) to convert anyone, but to point out what I see.Ruth said:
This is not "name-calling" and you know it. This is an exploration into a source of confusion. A twister of meanings any which way. And this time the focus will stay because reply after reply, you reveal more of yourself. I am sorry to others if I will seem a bit forward. I do so because I believe being direct is best here.
So I pose the question: When does the group come up and tell a member that they have no place being here? What exactly is that quality that would make others say such a thing? You are trying to say that it's because of some "party line" thing. If that was true the forum would have petered out into nothing long ago. All would have been said, people would have gotten bored, and membership would have dwindled to a "select few".
On the contrary, I see the numbers increasing. And that is occuring because new things are beings said, and old ideas are being approached in new and refreshing ways. OTHER forums play favourites. OTHER forums mark undersireables, give them the once over and that's it. Here, unless they are insulting, abusive or just spouting stuff without substance, people are given the benefit of the doubt, often to the discomfort of many other members.
So quit whining. You have your say, and say what you want no matter how others are bothered by it. I would say your position here is pretty privelidged. Some people even think you mean well. I disagree. You see, when someone is called on the carpet here there is one issue over-riding others. Sincerity.
If you could skillfully play devil's advocate, I would be the first to applaud you. THAT would be useful. But that's not what you're doing. All I see is ad-hoc definitions, contradictions, and a tendency to basically whatever suits you at the moment. Your window is argument/counter-argument.
Bizarre!? It would be to any OP. Anyone can check the various discussions on OP's and see that the pattern of your responses pretty much is a good example of OP resistance to knowledge related to individuation. And anyone reading those threads will also know that there is no such thing as "name-calling" regarding OP's.
It's not an insult. It's a human condition, natural for some, and temporary for others. So there isn't even an issue of me calling you names. Psychopath? I don't think so, but such symptoms can occur when OP's are stressed through too much contact with the "bizarre". All that has been discussed.
The phrase in bold would make sense if I had a motive. Defense occurs after attack. I was not attacked, so do not feel threatened. For all I care, I could just ignore this thread until people get tired of you on their own, or you get scratched. The way I see it, however, is that there are some valuable and rapid-fire lessons presented here. And the more members can absorb them the faster they will come.
Why? Because this seems to be the only venue of its kind, blending practical world issues with what you call the bizarre, or thinking outside the box. And since things do not seem to be so stable in the world it pays to keep the lesson flow going. From my observations many members have greatly increased their resiliency to attack already. Understanding is going through the roof, if you compare it with the state of society today.
Eventually, it's going to reach a state of saturation, and a non-linear cascade will occur where what is going on in this forum will spill over in a noticeable way. For this to happen, a sequence of lessons needs to be grokked by a critical number of people. The way I see it, the lessons need to keep coming, because the tension they generate stimulates growth and inner strength. This inner strength is the support for all those people out there beyond this venue who are lost and calling for help. So lost they cannot even find their way here.
Inner strength born of knowledge is a tangible effect on the world. People don't find solutions because they are afraid. They are afraid because they feel weak. What they need is the possibility of knowledge presented to them through examples of strength. They do not need to be told what to do, but inspired toward what they can be. Preaching has not worked, but inspiring through example does.
Some members may already have an understanding that they are evolving to be examples. Examples do not need to practice a particular skill. They just need to be themselves in any area of life where they find themselves. What this world needs is examples of strength, and it has to start somewhere. The enemy is disinformation, but the solution is to experience the strength that knowledge provides. This can only happen through running the gauntlet of lessons the Universe so generously provides.
If you think I can make others do the "work" for me, then you have no clue as to how the Universe works. I have had my time of trying to escape the lessons presented to me. I just wanted a normal life. It's damn good to be an OP with a nice teaching job, a good spouse, kids, a house a bit of writing on the side, trips to the beach and all the comforts of middle class OP living.
The difference is that when the pressure was on to learn I knew what the consequences would be if I didn't. There IS no passing the buck here. So regardless of what I am posting here, I am involved in my "work", and it is not easy. Intellectual snob? I've been humbled enough in life to know that being a snob is foolish at best. Ostrich head in the sand? If that was true my head would have been cut off already. As for being intellectual, that is just a form of expression, because clear communication without drama is what is needed here.
No, I am not those things because my true motives are based on what I see, and what I see is a possibility of great strength in people gained through knowledge. I'm here to offer some experience, and also to participate in the same lessons presented before others because I need to be stronger myself.
And I do think you feel threatened, although you hide it well. Of course you hide it. You can't let them see you sweat, can you? To you this is a battle, maybe a battle against the "bizarre". After all, you are pretty reasonable when addressing other topics. The thing is that strength comes from outside the box, because when you grow that is what you grow into.
Ruth, you are a sincere supporter of the Matrix, that at least should be obvious to people. When things are expressed that do not directly threat the matrix, you are fine. When knowledge, however, looms over the horizon you react in ways that many here consider predictable, maybe even in Pavlovian fashion. It is obvious you want to set limits to knowledge, and do not want that knowledge to become strength in people. If it does, the foundations of the Matrix our threatened. And to me, Ruth, the Matrix is your home.
G
Guest
Guest
What Rense.com is not talking about
When OP's a stressed they can act as psychopaths, because they have to do what it takes to remove the threat, and a conscience is just a burden to them. Ruth could easily just say she disagrees, and simply stay away from threads she considers abject lunacy.
But she does not, and I think the former rationalization is how a person with a conscience would see it. Usually, when someone responds in an automatic manner (the program responses SAO mentioned) they do so because they feel they must, and they must because there is dissonance that needs to be shut down.
I said the threat Ruth feels is existential in an attempt to specify it. That means that anything challenging her world-view creates dissonance. If we look at Ruth's replies, it becomes apparent that they are replies of a person in dissonance. As for the "LOL" responses, they always struck me as sarcastic, the same type of laughter a bully expresses when trying to maintain bravado in the face of adversity.
In an earler post on this thread (on page 20) christx11 pointed out a few things starkly, and I think described the cycle of Ruth's behaviour pretty well. It almost seems to be a behaviour with an agenda. The agenda may not be conscious, it may be "inspired", but from Ruth's part it seems like the perfect strategy to keep the wheels of knowledge spinning and confusion perpetuated. Why would she engage in such a thing if the knowledge itself was not a threat somehow?
You present a good argument, Harrison. It makes sense regarding a person with a conscience, and at least when confronted with certain types of knowledge, any conscience Ruth may otherwise exhibit goes outside the window. So she has no shame. However, even psychopaths can feel threatened. Their sense of survival is based on sustaining a certain world view affirmed by others.hkoehli said:
When OP's a stressed they can act as psychopaths, because they have to do what it takes to remove the threat, and a conscience is just a burden to them. Ruth could easily just say she disagrees, and simply stay away from threads she considers abject lunacy.
But she does not, and I think the former rationalization is how a person with a conscience would see it. Usually, when someone responds in an automatic manner (the program responses SAO mentioned) they do so because they feel they must, and they must because there is dissonance that needs to be shut down.
I said the threat Ruth feels is existential in an attempt to specify it. That means that anything challenging her world-view creates dissonance. If we look at Ruth's replies, it becomes apparent that they are replies of a person in dissonance. As for the "LOL" responses, they always struck me as sarcastic, the same type of laughter a bully expresses when trying to maintain bravado in the face of adversity.
In an earler post on this thread (on page 20) christx11 pointed out a few things starkly, and I think described the cycle of Ruth's behaviour pretty well. It almost seems to be a behaviour with an agenda. The agenda may not be conscious, it may be "inspired", but from Ruth's part it seems like the perfect strategy to keep the wheels of knowledge spinning and confusion perpetuated. Why would she engage in such a thing if the knowledge itself was not a threat somehow?
I think disgust, should be put in quotes here. That's the effect she claims. And intelligent or not, Ruth is driven, and I think she believes she is clever. Point (d) sums it up, and I think the mask is beginning to crack. All in all an objective look, and a willingness not to feel guilty about being objective, reveals a picture that is quite the opposite of an individuating person, even one experiencing crisis.Fifth Way said:
Fifth Way
Jedi Council Member
What Rense.com is not talking about
I DID NOT WRITE THE POST THIS WAY. THE CONTEXT HAS BEEN EDITED BEYOND RECOGNITION:
I DID NOT WRITE THE POST THIS WAY. THE CONTEXT HAS BEEN EDITED BEYOND RECOGNITION:
Fifth Way AND hkoehli ARE ATRIBUTED TO THE WRONG QUOTES. IMPORTANT AND ABOVE ALL RELEVANT SECTIONS HAVE BEEN DELEATED. WOULD ANYBODY CARE TO EXPLAIN WHY THIS HAPPENED AND WHAT THE PURPOSE OF SUCH VIOLATION IS.Fifth Way said:
Fifth Way
Jedi Council Member
What Rense.com is not talking about
I ask again: Who did it and why?
I repeat: "a,b,c,d," was not written by hkoehli, but me. However a detailed argument leading up to this statement has been erased from this thread and other sections added by an unidentified autor. I know I did not make a mistake posting it as I double-checked the post by reloading the page.Eso said:
I ask again: Who did it and why?
What Rense.com is not talking about
Could have been me (ark). I do not see my own post. So, either someone deleted my own post as well or, what is more probable, by mistake, instead of replying, I edited your post. Nothing evil. Just my error. If so, I realize I did it again ( I did it once before). My sincere apologies. You can repost - if you remember what was it.Fifth Way said:
What Rense.com is not talking about
"J" said something in the "by, for, and of psykopaths' piece about the psychopath's reponse to this existential threat:
Okay, I think I understand this 'existential threat' idea. I was thinking that because there was dissonance, that impied that it was possible to overcome and understand the dissonance. But it makes more sense that this is a program that is hard-wired into OPs brains. The dissonance is like a wall that cannot be passed. It's like the 'red zone' on an equalizer. If the sound gets too loud, it distorts, and may even blow the equipment. It is built in for protection of the equipment and our ears. It's like a filter for 'the terror'. Because if they did see their own condition life would lose all sense of meaning.EsoQuest said:
"J" said something in the "by, for, and of psykopaths' piece about the psychopath's reponse to this existential threat:
[As for the "a, b, c, d" points, FW made them, not me, as he's said.]
Fifth Way
Jedi Council Member
What Rense.com is not talking about
This is all very strange. I just attempted to rewrite my original post in "word" as that program suddenly quits on me? Guess I have to resort to even more stubbornness!
Here we go:
Personally, some of the post in this particular thread (especially in regards to Ruth) struck me as the most profound wisdoms I had the chance to read in recent times. I think the level of shared knowledge and the depth of learning delivered is quite unparallel. The potential for growth is immense.
I find it extraordinary that nothing of it reaches Ruth. NOTHING!
Instead she is capable to turn everything that is said on its head.
And, no, I agree, Ruth does not appear to be threatened. To the contrary, her own words are:
b.) Her ability to relate with the other forum members is zero.
c.) "Running the same programs" could be robotic but could also be lack of intelligence.
d.) Nevertheless, the length of her stay and the number of her posts prove her mask to be quite efficient.
As if someone poses as a human.
Rings a bell, does it not?
(end - recollection of my vanished post)
In the meantime more replies were posted and for the first time I see Eso actually getting defensive and justifying his motives.
But the fact that Ruth was able to push even your buttons makes me think: Yes, she most defiantly is manipulative.
And I know I do not have the competence to make that judgment - and I know I have a lot to learn - but hey - you know what?
At this point I do think that Ruth IS a psycho!
This is all very strange. I just attempted to rewrite my original post in "word" as that program suddenly quits on me? Guess I have to resort to even more stubbornness!
Here we go:
I think you are up to something here.hkoehli said:
Personally, some of the post in this particular thread (especially in regards to Ruth) struck me as the most profound wisdoms I had the chance to read in recent times. I think the level of shared knowledge and the depth of learning delivered is quite unparallel. The potential for growth is immense.
I find it extraordinary that nothing of it reaches Ruth. NOTHING!
Instead she is capable to turn everything that is said on its head.
Mind-boggling. Like she belongs to some other kind. But her ignorance doesn't stop here. I mean calling Eso an intellectual snob - Eso!Ruth said:
And, no, I agree, Ruth does not appear to be threatened. To the contrary, her own words are:
a.) So the ultimate effect all this extraordinary effort has on her is nothing more than disgust!Ruth said:
b.) Her ability to relate with the other forum members is zero.
c.) "Running the same programs" could be robotic but could also be lack of intelligence.
d.) Nevertheless, the length of her stay and the number of her posts prove her mask to be quite efficient.
As if someone poses as a human.
Rings a bell, does it not?
(end - recollection of my vanished post)
In the meantime more replies were posted and for the first time I see Eso actually getting defensive and justifying his motives.
First of all Eso: We all know that and your vast experience is greatly appreciated by many!Eso said:
But the fact that Ruth was able to push even your buttons makes me think: Yes, she most defiantly is manipulative.
And I know I do not have the competence to make that judgment - and I know I have a lot to learn - but hey - you know what?
At this point I do think that Ruth IS a psycho!
G
Guest
Guest
What Rense.com is not talking about
My posts, although addressing Ruth, were written for the benefit of everyone else. Ruth is really just a reference of learning, as far as I'm concerned. It's the most constructive way of addressing this issue, IMO. In all of this, I really wanted to bring to the forefront how beneficial and strengthening the whole network dynamic is, especially when it deals with understanding people who try to sabotage it.
Don't worry FW. In this particular instance at least, my buttons were not pushed, although Ruth does try her best. I just wanted to make myself clear in the context of the rest of the post: namely that one can have some experience to contribute and still benefit from the learning the network provides, that the learning is always there for all no matter the perspective.Fifth Way said:
My posts, although addressing Ruth, were written for the benefit of everyone else. Ruth is really just a reference of learning, as far as I'm concerned. It's the most constructive way of addressing this issue, IMO. In all of this, I really wanted to bring to the forefront how beneficial and strengthening the whole network dynamic is, especially when it deals with understanding people who try to sabotage it.
I think that's an accurate assessment.hkoehli said:
What Rense.com is not talking about
There have been some pretty stubborn characters on this forum before, but their agenda seemed to have a certain different quality than Ruth's. This is what I keep struggling with - those characters have, almost as soon as they showed their deck of cards, been removed from the forum and rightly so. Ruth's deck seems to have something about it that allows her to be on this forum to a limited degree, because again, she's been around so long and if she really was a clear cut psycho, she would've been spotted and removed long ago, osit.
But it's not really conscious manipulation I sense, just total lack of SEEing and only "going through the motions". So my hypothesis is that she might be an OP (only explanation I can think of for that distinct lack of SEEing), and occasionally has psychopathic tendencies. As Laura said earlier that an OP could accidentally shoot someone, etc - she seems to be on that line sort of - almost a psychopath but not really quite there yet.
On the other hand, if she really is an OP, that might explain this stubborn and unyielding persistence, as it may be coming from something that is controlling her - and I don't mean a predator mind, but something "other" like 4th density STS etc. OP's do not strike me as beings that would stick around on a group such as this for so long and make every attempt to create the illusion of progress and growth all the time to try to fool the group, and be pretty convincing on occasion. But if they were controlled by something else entirely, then I could see how this could happen. Based on all the evidence, I don't think Ruth is here for so long because she "resonates" with the material, and "recognizes the application" as the C's say. I do not perceive her as understanding the true aims and goals of this group, and how to really go about achieving them and why to do it etc. When she talks about this stuff, she sounds a bit like Bush when he talks about humanitarian concepts - it may even come out technically correct (sometimes), but is all "off" and "twisted" in some weird way, like it's all purely an intellectual exercise on the surface level with no real deeper understanding at all.
So having pretty much ruled out resonating, what other reasons are left for someone to be on such a group? Well, the only other reason that I've ever seen, is as a portal of attack. Sometimes people seem to attack due to personal programs and shock at this group's ideas (but those are usually pretty straight forward and obvious, no clever manipulation or persistence to stick around at all), sometimes they are cointelpro agents, other times they are psychopaths who may use clever psychological techniques to try to get as many members as will fall for their methods.
Strangely, Ruth does not seem to really fit, in my perception, to any of those categories. That is what perplexes me in this case. Fifth, I agree she does have psychopathic tendencies, but again, she doesn't strike me as a full fledged psychopath at this point. I think she might be something like an unwitting portal used by something else to inflitrate this group. And I think the point is probably more infiltration than anything else - to get her in here and maybe also just drain energy and confuse/distract. Confusion seems to be a big one - I can definitely say that I was very confused about Ruth's nature for a long time, unsure what to make of it, and struggling because I kept taking what she said seriously, as coming from someone who seems intelligent, and when I came up empty in trying to reconcile her statements with my understandings, I started second-guessing myself. Ruth seems so intelligent in some posts and makes a lot of sense, it made no sense how she could be really and totally "out of it" in other topics. So, that made me think it must be me, especially since I don't remember seeing anyone directly confront her as it has now been done in this thread.
So I can only speak from what I experienced that, maybe this effect WAS the point of her inflitration of this group? Though agian, I get the distinct impression it's not her idea, it's not conscious but coming from something "else". Then again, maybe that impression is also intentionally manipulated into me? Hmm...
Sometimes, maybe a good approach is to follow "by their fruits shall you know them". So to see what possible motive or reason Ruth is here for, look at what effect she had/has on this group while being here, etc. I think this thread is the exception - although at an even higher level of "all is lessons", she's definitely here to provide us with some amazing lessons, that just keep on coming. Or maybe the effect she might have on someone who may be new to the group, etc. I could definitely see how they could be easily confused and led astray if they really "took in" her posts without being really critical. And it's funny, then the goal becomes 2-fold. One, to confused/lead astray the new members, but to avoid detection at the same time, or if detected, make others second-guess themselves or think it's not really as bad as it seems, etc. This would also explain why I don't really detect clear psychopathy from her, her approach seems to be much "softer" and less clearly manipulative, osit. The effect of plausible deniability is raised in my mind to blind me then.
Given her persistence, it is quite interesting. Would a psychopath stick around after everyone pretty much sees right through it? I mean, isn't deception and thus manipulation the whole point? And if it fails, what reason is left to stick around? This suggests to me that more is going on here than just "psychopathy" - there's something else there that is driving Ruth to continue what she is doing here, and nothing that this group SEES, says, or does seems to have an effect at all. It's that raw persistence that I find really weird - if she is an OP and/or a psychopath, does it make sense that after all that has been said and done, she'd still stick around and continue the same old routine to no end?Fifth Way said:
There have been some pretty stubborn characters on this forum before, but their agenda seemed to have a certain different quality than Ruth's. This is what I keep struggling with - those characters have, almost as soon as they showed their deck of cards, been removed from the forum and rightly so. Ruth's deck seems to have something about it that allows her to be on this forum to a limited degree, because again, she's been around so long and if she really was a clear cut psycho, she would've been spotted and removed long ago, osit.
But it's not really conscious manipulation I sense, just total lack of SEEing and only "going through the motions". So my hypothesis is that she might be an OP (only explanation I can think of for that distinct lack of SEEing), and occasionally has psychopathic tendencies. As Laura said earlier that an OP could accidentally shoot someone, etc - she seems to be on that line sort of - almost a psychopath but not really quite there yet.
On the other hand, if she really is an OP, that might explain this stubborn and unyielding persistence, as it may be coming from something that is controlling her - and I don't mean a predator mind, but something "other" like 4th density STS etc. OP's do not strike me as beings that would stick around on a group such as this for so long and make every attempt to create the illusion of progress and growth all the time to try to fool the group, and be pretty convincing on occasion. But if they were controlled by something else entirely, then I could see how this could happen. Based on all the evidence, I don't think Ruth is here for so long because she "resonates" with the material, and "recognizes the application" as the C's say. I do not perceive her as understanding the true aims and goals of this group, and how to really go about achieving them and why to do it etc. When she talks about this stuff, she sounds a bit like Bush when he talks about humanitarian concepts - it may even come out technically correct (sometimes), but is all "off" and "twisted" in some weird way, like it's all purely an intellectual exercise on the surface level with no real deeper understanding at all.
So having pretty much ruled out resonating, what other reasons are left for someone to be on such a group? Well, the only other reason that I've ever seen, is as a portal of attack. Sometimes people seem to attack due to personal programs and shock at this group's ideas (but those are usually pretty straight forward and obvious, no clever manipulation or persistence to stick around at all), sometimes they are cointelpro agents, other times they are psychopaths who may use clever psychological techniques to try to get as many members as will fall for their methods.
Strangely, Ruth does not seem to really fit, in my perception, to any of those categories. That is what perplexes me in this case. Fifth, I agree she does have psychopathic tendencies, but again, she doesn't strike me as a full fledged psychopath at this point. I think she might be something like an unwitting portal used by something else to inflitrate this group. And I think the point is probably more infiltration than anything else - to get her in here and maybe also just drain energy and confuse/distract. Confusion seems to be a big one - I can definitely say that I was very confused about Ruth's nature for a long time, unsure what to make of it, and struggling because I kept taking what she said seriously, as coming from someone who seems intelligent, and when I came up empty in trying to reconcile her statements with my understandings, I started second-guessing myself. Ruth seems so intelligent in some posts and makes a lot of sense, it made no sense how she could be really and totally "out of it" in other topics. So, that made me think it must be me, especially since I don't remember seeing anyone directly confront her as it has now been done in this thread.
So I can only speak from what I experienced that, maybe this effect WAS the point of her inflitration of this group? Though agian, I get the distinct impression it's not her idea, it's not conscious but coming from something "else". Then again, maybe that impression is also intentionally manipulated into me? Hmm...
Sometimes, maybe a good approach is to follow "by their fruits shall you know them". So to see what possible motive or reason Ruth is here for, look at what effect she had/has on this group while being here, etc. I think this thread is the exception - although at an even higher level of "all is lessons", she's definitely here to provide us with some amazing lessons, that just keep on coming. Or maybe the effect she might have on someone who may be new to the group, etc. I could definitely see how they could be easily confused and led astray if they really "took in" her posts without being really critical. And it's funny, then the goal becomes 2-fold. One, to confused/lead astray the new members, but to avoid detection at the same time, or if detected, make others second-guess themselves or think it's not really as bad as it seems, etc. This would also explain why I don't really detect clear psychopathy from her, her approach seems to be much "softer" and less clearly manipulative, osit. The effect of plausible deniability is raised in my mind to blind me then.
What Rense.com is not talking about
I also think this is her purpose. But it's always possible we're giving her too much credit. What if she is just a troll who just thinks it's fun to cause confusion and watch others go, "...Huh!?"? Or what if she's being paid to be here? Either way, she's been fulfilling her purpose (conscious or unconscious) for years now, it seems.ScioAgapeOmnis said:
What Rense.com is not talking about
The good thing about this thread too is, even for members who do not know Ruth, since she posted so much already in this thread, it alone has enough data to demonstrate Ruth's peculiar nature and to see it in action.
Well by softer I mean it seems more designed to confuse than maybe "maliciously manipulate". So the effect is what hkoehli said, "Huh!?". This way she can always fall back on "oh I think you didn't get my meaning" or "I think I was confused myself" etc, and it isn't so hard to buy that plausible explanation for a while - it's only after continuous observation and constant repeating of the same dynamic do you begin to get a sense that something is seriously wrong, that it's not all just occasional error in logic etc. But maybe smoother too then.Fifth Way said:
The good thing about this thread too is, even for members who do not know Ruth, since she posted so much already in this thread, it alone has enough data to demonstrate Ruth's peculiar nature and to see it in action.
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