Jeff Rense EXPOSED!!

[Iain'tgoin'tonocamp!]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

Okay, and please take me seriously when I say this, the last post I made was dripping with sarcasm. I also mentioned that the comment about reserving your paranoia for those who truly deserve it was not directed at Lisa. As well, I did recharacterize my description of Lisa's writing style from "ferocious" to "colorful", and I do realize that Lisa has been under some serious pressure, so I will apologize to you and the other forum members who are picking apart my "motives", I don't have one, and I am a stable human being.

The comment I posted which anart deleted was meant in jest. If any of you think I took it too far, I'm sorry, I have a particularly cutting sense of humor. But as for those who would honestly accuse me of being a part of something nefarious, please realize I did give my full name, where I live and what I do to pay my bills. Those who frequent this forum should know that the moles who are trying to f*ck things up never have more than 5 or 10 posts, I'm here for the long haul. The connection of Rense to Marrs to Thorn was completely of my own discovery and it wasn't much of a discovery at that, I WAS JUST CURIOUS. So, I asked.

I had already mentioned in my post after Ark's response that what I had "found" wasn't anything at all. Just because the information I presented did not go anywhere doesn't mean I was attempting to slander, defame or insult anyone. But I would say it is important for the members of this forum, who have become quite accustomed to stripping down fakes, to be able to notice the difference between somebody trying to disrupt and someone who just had it wrong. I was of the latter. I had not intended to flare up anyone, and set people to pounding on their keyboards, I just had a question. "Obvious victimization counter-tactics..." Are you kidding me? Seriously, I think it's time for some puff-puff-pass.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

To whom specifically were you directing the comment about "reserving your paranoia for those truly deserving it..

Lisa

 

[the all-encompassing egg]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

This goes out to everyone, please take some time to read:

I think that all too often people here are ready to jump at the bit and burn whomever they choose on a stake! I see this happening more and more here. True there is a good chance that 'moles' are probably out there ready to feed disinformation to anyone willing to take it as truth, but I'll bet that most of us are genuinely 'normal' people who live 'normal' lives and are far separated from anything to do with secret societies, government agencies, cointelpro, etc. Most of us are curious, caring, intelligent people doing our own studying and research because we can feel that something's up and we are trying to find out just what that is. I come here to discuss the issues at hand, share my crazy dreams and learn new knowledge. I don't ever want to feel hesitation while posting my feelings here and I don't want anyone else to either. BUT some people can post such ruthlessly judgmental things when the situation could be handled in a far gentler way. It seems that when anyone has an opposing idea or unconfirmed information, they are instantly pinned as a sinister force. Why is this? Everyone needs to calm down and think clearly! I hate to state the obvious, but this is a discussion forum and different ideas are going to come up; people are going to disagree- that's alright. What's not alright is when people are so ready to point their finger at the guy beside them and scream 'wolf.' People are going to find things that they feel might be important and they will post them here for discussion so as to find out what is true and what is not. That's what we do here! I know I don't want to discourage people from seeking new knowledge on their own, for all we know they will find something very important that could have been missed. I know these are dangerous times and we need to be careful, but we also need to exercise some self control. It's alright to correct someone or disagree but I think that the judgment should stop there- things are getting too personal and really, how accurate are most of these judgments? What some of you might see as a problem in character could simply be a problem of language- not all of us are the best writers and we might write things in a way that could be misinterpreted. I know that I have had to think about & revise the way I am saying things to make sure everyone understands where I'm coming from! So clarify with the poster before jumping to conclusions. It doesn't take much effort to ask, "what did you mean when you said this '________'?" Some things don't translate well into text, so give people the benefit of the doubt! Why? Because that is what a kind, intelligent, discerning person would do- someone who cares, most of all, about finding the truth and understanding those around them. In the rare situation that something larger could be going on, I can see how things could be dug deeper, but this is the rare situation! You might think that this is unnecessary, but I find it completely necessary to state these things. Think a bit before you post something, we all have feelings that can be hurt- have a little respect. Thank you.

 

[Johnno]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

This is now posted on the site where the WING tv quasi-poll was -

Soon after posting the poll on the Signs of the Times forums in which Lisa is a frequent visitor, it was discovered by some of the members that the poll did not really have any kind of ip checking mechanisim at all, contrary to what I had read on the Ballot-Box.net website when signing up. Ofcorse this came as a massive dissapointment to many of us as we had believed that the results of this poll were infact genuine, sadly that was not the case and we just have to deal with it. When it was discovered that the poll could be hijacked the SOTT/WingTV crowd found it necessary to boost the "Excellent" vote up into the 3000 range, probably using some kind of voting software. A new poll will be created soon - perhaps several for redundancy, and it will be proven once and for all that WingTV are doing nothing but harm to this ever-expanding 911 truth movement.

A poll proving a pre-determined outcome isn't REALLY a poll. It's a pre-determined opinion. I'm looking forward to see how badly these guys can make the next one. After all, using the same logic, it has already been "proven" that 3000+ find it excellent. QED.

Take a look at the framing of the answers in the next "poll", we can't be sure that for every vote cast in 5 (excellent), two aren't automatically added to option 1 (WingTV are agents the antichrist and shall burn in hell for eternal damnation forever and ever amen) or whatever else these characters decide to come up with.

It's been an interesting couple of hours.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

I never touched that "poll" even to vote for my own website.
I'm just watching, amused.

Come to think of it, I haven't suggested anything I can recall, and certainly not tried to influence whether people should vote or not one way or the other.
Funny how I am to blame for everything, though. Let me tell you about a few of my other sins:
I am singlehandedly responsible for world poverty, global warming, yesterday's rain, the drought in Africa, the Deficit, my neighbor's obesity, the crucifixion of Christ, the skyrocketing 10 cent increase in the price of gas in one day's time, and the fact that there's nothing remotely good on TV these days. I'm the reason people sweat. I'm the instigator of world wars, civil wars and all domestic disputes. I cause the plants to wither, I created SIDS, and the corruption in the churches. I'm spraying the chemtrails, operating MK Ultra, and conspiring with Satan on an hourly basis to deceive the entire planet, it was my idea to give that country singer his goofy name: Conway Twitty.
Check that, I forgot. I am Satan. Sorry, I know I am constantly reminded of this, but I keep forgetting. Gee, it's probably because I invented Alzheimers, too.
It's all my doing and I'm to blame for everything, even the stuff that's yet to come.
There, I think that about covers it.

Lisa

 

[Iain'tgoin'tonocamp!]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

There was a comment on page seven that came just after esoquest's post and before yours, it is no longer there, whomever wrote that post is who I directed that comment to. To clarify, I didn't mean it as an insult, I meant it literally, everyone seems to be preeeetty well stocked up on paranoia these days, and for good reason, I was merely stating through that comment that no one should have anything to fear from me. I am not a "mole" or "agent". I was just wrong. Ya' know, that thing that people are on those occasions when they're not right? I know, I know, hard to believe, but it's true. ;)

 

[anart]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

'Iaintgointonocamp' - thanks for your clarifications - they do help and I realize that this is a very odd time around here to say the least. Oh, and Egg - the all-encompassing one, of course, your input is also helpful and you make some good points - hopefully we can all understand that right now, things are a little on the frenetic side, resulting in a slight increase in the critical analysis side of what we do - merely from a forum-protective standpoint. We are not turning into an attack forum, by any means, we have just had to raise the level of vigilance a bit, and, sometimes, people get caught up in that.

We are all working in a dynamic environment and doing the best we can to stay true not only to the spirit of the forum in general, but to the truth itself - it will work out.

 

[Ryan]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

We are all working in a dynamic environment and doing the best we can to stay true not only to the spirit of the forum in general, but to the truth itself - it will work out.

Exactly. And sometimes mistakes will be made. Whenever emotion is involved it becomes very difficult to harness it creatively and not let it "ground" via the path of least resistance in mechanical, knee-jerk reactions.

This is something that Cracksmoker & Co rely on - getting people so emotional that they fall into neatly defined reactions which can be scripted for and controlled. Anger and self-pity are two very common reactions to this kind of attack, and it does us no good to waste unnecessary energy on either of them. But if this energy can be conserved, then we can use it to boost our intuition and receive creative solutions that work outside the scripts that the PTB are dependant on.

So in this sense, Cracksmoker & Co are only helping us by triggering the shocks and negative emotions within us that we can use to outwit them.

This is not a foolproof process and success is far from guaranteed, but it's about the only chance we've got at the moment, given the gigantic odds and resources stacked against us.

 

[Johnno]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

I

Funny how I am to blame for everything, though. Let me tell you about a few of my other sins:
I am singlehandedly responsible for world poverty, global warming, yesterday's rain, the drought in Africa, the Deficit, my neighbor's obesity, the crucifixion of Christ, the skyrocketing 10 cent increase in the price of gas in one day's time, and the fact that there's nothing remotely good on TV these days. I'm the reason people sweat. I'm the instigator of world wars, civil wars and all domestic disputes. I cause the plants to wither, I created SIDS, and the corruption in the churches. I'm spraying the chemtrails, operating MK Ultra, and conspiring with Satan on an hourly basis to deceive the entire planet, it was my idea to give that country singer his goofy name: Conway Twitty.
Check that, I forgot. I am Satan. Sorry, I know I am constantly reminded of this, but I keep forgetting. Gee, it's probably because I invented Alzheimers, too.
It's all my doing and I'm to blame for everything, even the stuff that's yet to come.
There, I think that about covers it.

Lisa

You forgot American Idol. Only Satan could be responsible for that.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

Even Satan isn't perfect...

Lisa

 

[allen]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

True there is a good chance that 'moles' are probably out there ready to feed disinformation to anyone willing to take it as truth, but I'll bet that most of us are genuinely 'normal' people who live 'normal' lives and are far separated from anything to do with secret societies, government agencies, cointelpro, etc. Most of us are curious, caring, intelligent people doing our own studying and research because we can feel that something's up and we are trying to find out just what that is.

I find this an interesting statement considering the material on SOTT. Why would you bet that most of us are genuinely 'normal' people, etc? Smart bets are based on evidence, and one of the aims of SOTT seems to be showing how many "abnormal" people are running amok at the moment. Given that, and that you are posting on the SOTT forum, why be willing to make a bet that pretty much amounts to, "I bet the SOTT team is full of it?" Maybe I'm misreading you.

I come here to discuss the issues at hand, share my crazy dreams and learn new knowledge.

Is it possible that you are overlooking some of the knowledge that is being presented?

I don't ever want to feel hesitation while posting my feelings here and I don't want anyone else to either. BUT some people can post such ruthlessly judgmental things when the situation could be handled in a far gentler way. It seems that when anyone has an opposing idea or unconfirmed information, they are instantly pinned as a sinister force. Why is this? Everyone needs to calm down and think clearly!

This is demonstrably untrue within this very thread. How long did Laura give the benefit of the doubt to LFOD? Too long, IMHO, but then I had the benefit of hindsight. I wasn't taking part in that in the moment. More importantly, I think she is a far more patient person than I am! Read back through the thread. LFOD proved himself to be what was claimed of him. Read through other threads. The same thing happens time after time.

Also, I'm not sure this is really the place to be posting your "feelings." Of course you have them, and they are important, but your feelings about the topics discussed don't really add to the knowledge of the participants, OSIT.

I hate to state the obvious, but this is a discussion forum and different ideas are going to come up; people are going to disagree- that's alright. What's not alright is when people are so ready to point their finger at the guy beside them and scream 'wolf.' People are going to find things that they feel might be important and they will post them here for discussion so as to find out what is true and what is not. That's what we do here! I know I don't want to discourage people from seeking new knowledge on their own, for all we know they will find something very important that could have been missed.

Again, people are constantly posting differing opions and ideas without being accused of anything. I think you reacting emotionally to something that makes you feel uncomfortable and not thinking about it very clearly. Do you think this is a possibility?

It doesn't take much effort to ask, "what did you mean when you said this '________'?" Some things don't translate well into text, so give people the benefit of the doubt!

Again, reread this thread. How many times did Laura say she was giving LFOD the benefit of the doubt and asking specific questions that were not being answered? In order to have a useful discussion, the participants have to be willing to answer the questions posed. When someone avoids answering questions, you can be fairly sure they are not interested in discussion, they are only interested in putting forth their own ideas.

That's how I see it, at least.

Added later:
BTW, let me apologize for the statement about "smart bets." That was a bit smarmy I think. I'm still learning.

 

[ark]

Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

"Who doesn't persecute evil, commands evil to forthcome".

The above is only partly true. The devil, as always, hides in the details. When you go after a big evil, you may choose to ignore some of little ones, otherwise you would spend all your time and resourcesv fighting the little ones. And you know that once the big one is gone, the little ones will loose their power.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

LiveFreeOrDieTryin


**Posted on Conspiracy Central**

The next round of "polls". Someone asked, "What's the point?"
What IS the point?

Lisa
_________________________________________________________________________________
LiveFreeOrDieTryin
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
New poll coming soon. I may create several with different providers.

 

[Guest]

Superman Returns: WING TV repels Pathological Pirates AKA Rense & Co

Conversly, sometimes understanding and addressing the smaller evils can help in eventually confronting the big one. When the latter is organized especially, confrontation is a function of right time, right circumstance and right method, osit.

There is nowhere where the devil is in the details more, IMO, than in the issue of evil, and it seems simple solutions can very much be evil's friend.

 

[Guest]

WINGTV Opinion poll; Day 3 - on Wingtv

Just a few thoughts:

We notice that this forum is different from others, not just in how it approaches political content and issues of the "real world", but on its emphasis on personal growth, and views of reality outside the box. It is most different in how it places that emphasis.

There was a thread here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1396&p=1

where the issue was too much emphasis on the "out of the box" stuff, and replies expressed that both "real world" and "inner world/ far out world" stuff were needed because it all forms a whole. What I am trying to say is that we are not JUST looking for disinformants or trying to get by dealing with the stress of the situation.

We are learning and growing in every direction, and this issue of disinformants is one very important application. As an application of learning and growth IT WILL NEVER STOP BEING CHALLENGING. So anyone looking for that fine day when disinformants and undesireable elements will one day walk around with bright neon arrows pointed at them had better not hold their breath.

These people are like the Borg. They adapt, and that to which they adapt is our weakness. And because they target our weakness, they reveal it. That's pretty much the only constructive role they have in the scheme of things as I see it, and it pays to take advantage of the "service" they provide.

I would humbly suggest that before anyone types even a letter here, they take two seconds to simply remind themselves it's all lessons, and enter the discussion from that perspective as a priority over others. One need not forget or downplay one's ideals and aspirations, but above and beyond anything else, the perspective that anything that happens is a lesson will help maintain balance.

When we are aware of this, we don't let details slide, we don't fall for our assumptions or those of others, and we look at ego as something that is also there to reveal to us those very weaknesses manipulators would also reveal in a more painful manner.

When we are consciously aware that our participation is in a sense like going to a class, we stay open to input, we do not fear dissonance, and we are eager to explore every challenge instead of maintaining a defensive attitude against it.

If we think about it, a forum is the SAFEST (or one of the safest) of ways of learning. I can imagine the tops blowing if we were all in the same room trying to discuss these things in physical proximity. So not only is everything that happens a lesson here, but it is a relatively controlled learning within what you might call safety parameters. The only thing that reall CAN be hurt by words alone is ego.

The Borg are learning to apply shocks. They are usually clumsy at it, but their goal might not be direct shock but creating ricochet shocks, generating an atmosphere where the shock they applied just keeps bouncing around everyone, bruising ego's as it goes along.

That's a lesson too, in fact, because by doing what they do these Borg are putting us in a hall of distorted mirrors. What we end up seeing are distorted images of ourselves through others, and others see a distorted image of themselves through us. This in itself is disinformation, because these images are real, but they are not accurate.

Our dissonance can come from realizing that what is being reflected at us is not accurate, while at the same time still being an image of ourselves. When we look at ego as just another pointer of things that need to be seen, we can straighten out those mirrors and start reflecting each other more accurately. Then manipulators will stick out much more clearly, as will those who are sincere even if occasionally reacting out of dissonance.

Most posts here seem to be sincere, but alot of them are responses influenced strongly by dissonance. This is natural because we are human, and because we are learning. There is, however, no rush when posting. Nobody's going anywhere. We can, therefore, take the time to reassess what is going on with what we are reading from others, and also reassess what is going on within us.

We need to digest the page of a lesson before moving on to the next one or every page we encounter will be the same one over and over until we do.

In another thread (more than one I think) it was emphasized that we are not here to express, but to communicate. So we need to post with the other members of the forum in mind who will read our words. We are posting for THEM, not for ourselves. We read their words for ourselves, to assess if they are communicating or simply expressing, either as a response to dissonance or to deliberately manipulate.

This is not easy. It can be frustrating. But that frustration is OUR response-ability, because only we can deal with it. And that frustration, and other forms of dissonance, give us learning because beneath them is where shocks have impacted. When we can observe that, and know our weaknesses we can learn to identify the QUALITY of a shock, if it is deliberate and/or malicious or reflexive and defensive.

We can trace it back to its source with knowledge, and then pose the RIGHT questions and/or present the correct observations to that source. If we do it in the right way, knowing when to countershock, and knowing when to be diplomatic and apply empathy, the reflection we get will give us the truth in a constructive way.

A sincere person will share what we see, and an insincere one will begin short-circuiting as masks fall off.

To acquire proficiency in something like this, however, is not easy, and it cannot be tought in a technical manner. It's like riding a bike. You eventually get if after you have fallen enough times. And unless you want to be dependent on training wheels for the rest of forever, falling is going to happen.

It's one thing to blame the pavement, the bicycle and everyone around you (even those trying to kick you) when you fall, and something different when you realize it's part of learning. And that is simply because we get to that place where you stop falling much faster if we adopt the latter perspective. We fall, it hurts, we cry, we clean up, and we try again. Eventually, we get it, because falling is not something anyone wants. It's something that just happens until we learn to get beyond it.

Just as with riding a bike, the key to mastering discernment and consctructive communication in all its varied ways, corresponding to all the varied people with whom we communicate (the good and the bad), BALANCE is the key, and balance is an art.

Just a few thoughts here, as I said.