John Kaminski Goes Off the Deep End

[henry]

Oh, Johnny boy, you're in for it now.

I had the impression while reading this that BR is pushing John to set her up as the competition to Laura. There's the attempt to wed the spiritual with the political that is unique to the work here. But coming from a follower of Osho, it ends up in a feel-good spirituality, although given a cover of "go into your suffering" to make it appear less obvious than the Maharaji brand of shinola. From what he writes, it seems that BR is using Kaminski's libido to string him along in a kind of game of peek-a-boo.

The raging Kaminski, ferocious opponenet of all things Jewish, appears here as the lost and suffering male, vulnerable, exposed, open. Or such is the image he wishes to present us. It is clear from his recent essays that the two Kaminski's are the creation of BR, so is this vulnerability the way chosen to get him out of his marginalization?

When Kaminski is describing our predicament, he is coming close. We are destroying the planet. We are surrounded by purient images designed to keep us focused on the satisfaction of our own desires. Our minds are being played with more than we can imagine. Check out the thread on negative ads in the US political campaign.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3907

Then he comes to the crux:suffering:

In the Book of Wisdom, Osho relates: "... unless you go into your suffering,
you cannot be released from the imprisonment of it."

At first glance, one might think that this idea is similar to Gurdjieff's idea of conscious suffering. With conscious suffering one chooses how one will suffer in order to deal with the programming of the Personality. One chooses to forgo certain pleasures or to do certain things the Personality finds unpleasant in order to become a master of oneself. The higher self gradually can make its Will known through the Personality.

And while Kaminski suggests that he will need to give up that which he desires the most, what is he giving it up for? Truth? A more objective understanding of the world? Of himself? No. It is to "get" the woman he loves.

Kaminski's explanation of it says:

It was a story about a cul de sac. Most of us live our lives reliving the
same habitual pattern, and keep repeating it over and over again, so that our
lives devolve into shallowness, and then pain, and we feel trapped, frustrated,
and empty. Osho's lesson, she explained, was to learn all there is to learn
about what you like, then finish that dance and move on to the next step to
continue to see what life and the world can teach you.

Once the lesson is learned, leap out of the cul de sac, go beyond what you
know and learn what you don't.

While the description of the problem is at least partially accurate -- we are definitely creatures of habitual patterns and we need to recognize them in order to choose to act differently -- the solution offered amounts to "do as you like until you learn everything in that sphere of activity, then do something different".

???

So the solution is to continually search for another green pasture after we have eaten our full of the one we are in. Doesn't that sound like we are being told to continually fulfill our desires? Overcoming suffering is reduced to moving on when satiated.

The earth, like the woman I love, is not a product to be used to fulfill our
own selfish and ultimately delusional desires. She is a purpose that it is
our distinct privilege and honor to try and discover. But if we stay in the cul
de sac of desire, distraction, and deception, there's no chance we ever
will.

What Kaminski doesn't understand is that he has been led into a cul de sac by the very person he thinks is getting him out of it. While he thinks he is overcoming his desires, he is, in fact, succombing to them. This substitution of meaning is a typical ponerogenic process.

To really get out of the cul de sac, John would have to set everything aside in quest of the truth, even if it meant losing his dear BR.

His Jew baiting has blinded him to the reality of psychopathy and prevented him from going beyond the veil of "Jewish Power" to understand the foundations, and now his infatuation with Oshite "spiritual solutions" will blind him to ever coming to an understanding of himself.

Kaminski says at the top that Osho is "a guru from India notorious to some who didn't really know him but revered by many who did, including her." Well, let's look at Osho and see who he was. As the label of "cult" is easy to throw around in order to tarnish, let's be cautious and see what we can find out about Osho.

According to Wikipedia, after starting a first Ashram in India, he lived in the US under the name of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh on his ranch in Oregon, Rajneeshpuram. He had 96 Rolls Royces given to him by his followers. His goal had been 365, one for each day of the year. I have already discussed in some detail the question of money and gurus in my article "Spiritual Predator".

Two members of the group were arrested for salmonella poisoning. In an attempt to take over the local town council, the two had a plan to poison the population, making them sick enough that they wouldn't be able to vote, permitting the Rajneeshites to win the election.

Doesn't sound like a very spiritually advanced bunch to me. Of course, there can always be deviants in such a movement attempting to profit. The question is, what does the teacher do? Is the teacher creating an environment that encourages as discourages this kind of behaviour?

It looks to me like the Osho asham was set up to be a magnet for deviants. Here is a description from someone who was at the first ashram in India:

Well, if the archaic core of Tantra was festivity, I think you'd have to say that Osho was almost painstakingly orthodox. Poona was like a huge party he threw - a decade-long party, and one to which everyone was invited...Again there's the tie-up with the revolutionary Left. One of the main political arguments of the late 60s was that poverty hadn't been eliminated, it had merely changed its nature. It had become psychological. A society had been created which ruled out much traditional suffering, the cold, the hunger, the disease;- it was just that it had ruled out the rest of life with it. Basically everyone today was isolated, bored and depressed. There had to be a 'revolution of everyday life'...And that was precisely what sannyas offered: it was colour, it was sex, it was adventure. The vitality hit you the moment you got off the train in Poona. "The accounts of those who took sannyas and those who did not often differ quite sharply in certain respects" observes Frances Fitzgerald with distaste "but they are consistent in describing a madhouse-carnival atmosphere." Some day, when radical political feeling again starts to spread throughout society, Osho's Poona will be seen as a model of a quite different type of political action: one based on Eros. The revolutionary party really was a party there, and the pull it exercised was phenomenal.

How many people took sannyas during those years? The figure of a quarter of a million sannyasins worldwide was bandied about a lot at the time; and of these there were per- haps ten thousand in Poona at any one time...A couple of thousand crammed into the ashram (by now there were huts built all over the gardens, or on the flat roofs of the main ashram buildings) perhaps another seven or eight thousand scattered through the cantonment. Koregaon Park itself was packed. Every house, every room, every bit of boarded-up servants' quarters people could get their hands on was rented out. With nowhere else to go sannyasins started to stay in the fields at the back of the Park. At first they just slept there overnight, then they started to camp. You could buy panels of woven bamboo for next to nothing, and lash them together to form a simple hut. Rapidly this bit of the Park turned into a sort of bamboo Glastonbury. Like a summer festival it was an architectural dream-scape, with huts and towers and stockades jostling one another. People made tea on old brass pump-stoves, and sat around talking. Orange washing was hung out to dry. There were lots of kids. There was a huge old well there, under some trees, where you could swim in the afternoons.

People were coming and going the whole time. Up and down from the beaches of Goa, which were only an overnight bus ride away, down through the mountains; or back to the West, to Europe, to Australia, to the States...There was an international network crossing borders backwards and forwards with ever-increasing flexibility, setting up more and more bases in Western cities as it did so. One of Osho's big things at darshan, when anyone was leaving Poona to go back to the West, was to get them to start a centre wherever they came from. He would just give them a name for it, otherwise they were given carte blanche to do anything they cared in his name, the meditations, groups, individual sessions, whatever. When Osho delegated authority he delegated it unconditionally; and I would say that it was through the proliferation of these small grassroots centres and communes that the movement spread so fast in the early days. By the end of the decade Koregaon Park was something approaching a small independent kingdom. The police gave up on it, and as long as you stayed in the Park you didn't need a visa or even a passport. Supposedly there were various members of the Italian Red Brigades in hiding there.

Certainly there was a booming underworld. If you wanted to stay in Poona and didn't want to work in the ashram (to work your way up the hierarchy, more and more) then really drug smuggling was your only alternative. The profits were enormous, and Poona played a key role in the fast escalating drug economy of the late 70s. The internationalism of sannyas, people knowing one another all over the world yet frequently not even knowing one another's real names, made it a perfect set-up. Poona was a masked ball. You could buy a passport for a hundred dollars or so in the Park, and they are surprisingly easy to tamper with. I remember there were these French junkies who used to specialise in forging passports: they did it with ordinary biros, using a magnifying glass to form apparently printed letters and numbers by building up a mass of tiny dots...There were camp-followers and lunatics of every description in the warm Indian night...

Good grief! Drug smuggling, the Red Brigades, and the forging of passports!

Nuff said....

 

[Melchizedek]

Kaminski is Kaminski, so what can be done?

 

[vinny]

Kaminski is Kaminski, so what can be done?

what can be done? continue to publicly analyse his words in detail, pointing out the psychological traps and buffers etc., and so give more readers a chance to do the same.

 

[ark]

Kaminski is Kaminski, so what can be done?

Well, you sound like you switched off your thinking when writing the above.
Electron is electron, so what can be done?
The Universe is the Universe, so what can be done?
Gravity is gravity, so what can be done?

LOT can be done once you research, understand the general principles by studying particular cases, gaining knowledge and then utilizing this knowledge while serving others.

 

[Melchizedek]

Kaminski is Kaminski, so what can be done?

Well, you sound like you switched off your thinking when writing the above.
Electron is electron, so what can be done?
The Universe is the Universe, so what can be done?
Gravity is gravity, so what can be done?

LOT can be done once you research, understand the general principles by studying particular cases, gaining knowledge and then utilizing this knowledge while serving others.

Dwelling on him too much is sucking out all of your positive universal energy.


You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Melchizedek says:

"Dwelling on him too much is sucking out all of your positive universal energy."

With all due respect....

That is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make.

 

[vinny]

Dwelling on him too much is sucking out all of your positive universal energy.

nah. on the contrary: its teaching us all kinds of stuff. All the Lobaczewski material right there happening in real time, for us to study in detail. Don't tell me that's not useful - it's vital!

 

[ark]

You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

That is not very clever. Because once you know and understand deeply why things are the way they are, you also understand why they can't be different, and what to do for them to make them different if possible. Sometimes we can even get a "help" from "higher spheres" that allow us to do the impossible. But this does not come by "dreaming". I comes by DOING.

 

[Appollynon]

I must agree here with sleepyvinny and Lisa. This discussion has helped me to not only learn more about my own weaknesses in spotting "handler", but has also forced me to re-evaluate what my main focus in this world should be.

One of my sacred cows for the past few years which I have had to re-evaluate and do away with almost completely, is that I have in the past felt that I was very good at sensing and seeing manipulation by others in my life and the lives of others. While I still feel this is true about the manipulation of the more overt psycopathologies which people around me have displayed in my past, I have been almost completely inept at seeing or sensing the manipulation of the less overt control and manipulations, especially when in a relationship with someone.

This thread in particular however has forced me to face up to the fact that somewhat like John Kaminsky I may have been "handled", by someone with their own best interests at heart for a period of just over 6 months. Some of Arks comments in particular about the nature of handlers and the "unconscious" handlers have really given me some major shocks. The relationship ended a little more than two weeks ago, but I am still reviewing what was going on. I also feel that like Kaminski, I ran the risk of betraying myself and sinning against my soul just to gratify the I's in my personality complex that craved love, acceptance, physical intimacy and those nice warm fuzzy feelings that a relationship can bring.

I loved her, and I told her so. Yes, she responded, but you love me the way YOU want to love me, not in the way I want you to love me.

This quote from Laura has shocked me to my core, as these were exactly the words that were repeated to me whilst in the midst of the relationship I was in. My natural reaction to these words was to question myself, my actions, the way I spoke, and the way I treated my partner. At some points I thought that maybe I was loosing my mind as everything I did to try and show more love only ended in me being persecuted for not loving/doing enough for her and making her feel special enough. I also felt that I was sinning against my soul by devoting so much time, energy, and money trying to make things work between us (when nothing I was doing was making any difference) and that I was not giving more energy to SoTT, and not spending enough time doing the work I had once promised myself I would never give up.

My eyes started to open up when I was being told I had no right to take an interest in the world around me and that I should just focus on my own life and my partners as that's all that mattered (in her opinion) because my partner couldn't understand why I take such an interest in the world in which we live (both the negative and positive). I also noticed that while I was in the midst of this relationship, my mind was in such turmoil that my energy levels had dropped way below anything I had ever experienced before. My partner couldn't understand why I was reading up about how to protect myself and others better from psychopaths and the ponorised masses, and would often accuse me of creating negativity by focusing on getting to the truth of why the world is so negatively orientated, which would send me into a turmoil questioning myself and my direction to the point of driving myself a little crazy.

I guess also like John Kaminski I was looking for love and acceptance (possibly due to feeling a lack of closeness or real bond with my adopted family), and when I first met my partner I had felt this in abundance. It was only later that I started to notice I was only being accepted and loved so long as I did what my partner expected and wanted of me, and not for who I truly am and strive to be. Being in such a situation I found that also my capacity for reasoning was deteriorating to a noticeable extent that I felt I was being pushed to see how far I could go before snapping. In the end the only way we could have resolved our relationship troubles to make thing work, would be for me to essentially give up completely who I am, my interests, my beliefs and what I've been working for the past few years to achieve within myself and outside of myself. Maybe if I had done this I would have been in a situation that would seem on the surface to be more positive and give me the nice warm fuzzy feeling Kaminski talks about with his partner. Which I believe is what would have happened if I had tried harder to be who my partner wanted me to be. In the end it came down to a choice between being true to myself and continuing the work, or going back to sleep and turning my back on those who have risked so much to help already. It wasn't an easy choice (although it really should have been) and this thread has helped me to see things with the Kaminski situation that seemed to be going on in my own situation and make the decisions I've made that much easier to understand and make.

Im sorry for the long explanation, and if the mods feel there isn't much relevance here then I would be happy to remove the post as the last thing I want to do is create noise. However I felt that some of the parallels in my own situation would help Melchizedek understand why threads like these are so important to others (myself included) in spotting similar behavioral patterns not only in those we come into contact with, but sometimes within ourselves. My thanks to all the SoTT team and forumites who's contributions to this crazy world we inhabit are truly beyond measure.

 

[Melchizedek]

Melchizedek says:

"Dwelling on him too much is sucking out all of your positive universal energy."

With all due respect....

That is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make.

Why do you say that?

Is Kaminski worth all the ado or attention? Can you make him change?

I liken it to wasting my time watching a football game or other sporting event. Just a distraction to keep me away from issues of importance.


"Waste no more time arguing about what a good person should be. Be one."
Marcus Aurelius

 

[Laura]

Is Kaminski worth all the ado or attention? Can you make him change?

It's actually immaterial whether he changes or not. What IS material is what we all can learn from him and his situation. The "ado" is not really about Kaminski, it is about learning very important lessons, hopefully by the examples that others set. As My grandmother always said: a smart man learns from his mistakes; a genius learns from the mistakes of others.

I liken it to wasting my time watching a football game or other sporting event. Just a distraction to keep me away from issues of importance.

Then obviously, what you consider important is not what this forum is all about. Go back and re-read the rules. Better yet, go find a forum that concentrates on what you consider important and hang out there.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Please re-read all the posts that have been made to explain why these discussions are necessary, beneficial and informative.

They TEACH.

You seem way too interested in what my opinion is.
You should focus more on what the people here are trying to explain to you and show you, and less on my opinion.

If you consider this discussion a waste of time, then why are you here?

 

[Renaissance]

Why do you say that?

Is Kaminski worth all the ado or attention? Can you make him change?

So when you focus your attention on something, it is because you want to change it? Is this why you're at this forum?

It seems your not familiar with the concept of learning, which takes sincerity. Most of the participants here aren't seeking to change Kaminski or any other warped mind that isn't wishing to become unwarped. But we do wish to learn about the influences of ponerology (so as to escape such) and Kaminski is providing a great lesson for those who are studying the situation.

 

[noise]

Hi Melchizedek,

I believe the concept being created is to increase peoples abilities to learn discernment. http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=246&lsel=D

Some people can see some things that are happening to Mr. Kaminski by use of Discerment. Also we (people) often play games by trying to control, cover-up disinform or generally manipulate others. No one has really said that they don't do it (manipulate) but believe if they can see it in other peoples speaches, reactions etc.. that they can learn more about how to perform self-observation in a more straight forward way, osit. Also by seeing the techniques of manipulation we (people) can avoid manipulating others. Following the concept that a person would prefer to be honest in the first place - with themselves and others.

By learning these things and successfully integrating them into our beings it is thought/theorized/practiced that a person can, in a general way, rewire themselves. Myself, I consider it an attuning. I am here a dillusional person (truth/example) my frequency is very static like and noisey.. as I attune to a certain frequency (truth) the frequency becomes clearer and more stable. As, in this theory, the group as a whole moves toward that unique frequency the more truth can be disseminated among those able to recieve it.

This could be the greatest part of human evolution possible for peoplekind, but then for others who are certainly allowed to have their opinion(s) it may be -"liken(ed) to wasting my time watching a football game or other sporting event. Just a distraction to keep me away from issues of importance." Depending on the definition of "what is Important?"

Just some thoughts,

-Steve M.

 

[allen]

Im sorry for the long explanation, and if the mods feel there isn't much relevance here then I would be happy to remove the post as the last thing I want to do is create noise. However I felt that some of the parallels in my own situation would help Melchizedek understand why threads like these are so important to others (myself included) in spotting similar behavioral patterns not only in those we come into contact with, but sometimes within ourselves. My thanks to all the SoTT team and forumites who's contributions to this crazy world we inhabit are truly beyond measure.

In my opinion, you gave a great real life example of what several others had written in response to Melchizedek's post. I sometimes wonder if I've learned anything from all of this reading and discussion. Then I look back on my life two years ago and hardly recognize myself. Examining the words of Kaminski and others a waste of time? If learning to see things as they are is what is important to you, it doesn't seem like there is a lot else actually worth your time. Well, that's how it is for me at the moment, at least.

Dwelling on him too much is sucking out all of your positive universal energy.

What Melchizedek wrote is nothing but a silly platitude. What the hell is positive universal energy? Is it that which makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside? There are lots of drugs, both chemical and psychological, that you can take for that kind of energy. I'm not interested in them myself. I've seen where those kinds of things lead.