Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

Possibility of Being

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I don’t see how grammar is racist.
It's not that grammar is racist. It's you who are racist if you don't make mistakes!

A few more quotes from the website bjorn quoted above. I'd put them in the category: "Where Orwell failed with his imagination."

"Professor says grading, good grammar are examples of white supremacy"
“grading is a great way to protect the white property of literacy in schools and maintain the white supremacist status quo without ever being white supremacist or mentioning race.”
"Faculty workshops designed to persuade teachers not to grade based upon merit are popping up at universities..."
this workshop is ... designed to teach faculty “how to assess writing without judging its quality.”
:umm:
 

Color

Jedi Master
And now we have a new winner of the debate! No, wait! Of non-debate!!! :umm:


'Baby of the House' Labour MP Nadia Whittome, 24, launches attack on free speech by saying 'the very act of debate is a rollback of equality’ in article about trans rights

By KATIE WESTON FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 15:44 BST, 24 July 2020 | UPDATED: 17:10 BST, 24 July 2020


'Baby of the House' Labour MP Nadia Whittome, 24, has launched an attack on free speech by saying the 'very act of debate is a rollback of equality' in an article about trans rights.

The MP for Nottingham East wrote a column for The Independent which was published yesterday, titled: 'The only way to avoid hysteria about trans rights is to ground the debate in real life experiences'.

Ms Whittome shared the article on Twitter, posting in a series of tweets that the 'very act of debate in these cases is an effective rollback of assumed equality'.

But the argument sparked backlash from Good Morning Britain presenter Piers Morgan, alongside MEPs Daniel Hannan and Martin Daubney.
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Ms Whittome said: 'Much of the media coverage, pundit commentary and social media discussions centred on trans rights are fixated on manufacturing short-term outrage, rarely allowing us intelligent, humane understanding of the real, lived experiences of trans people in our society.

'But any public discourse on protecting and advancing the rights of trans people must be firmly grounded in these real-life experiences in order to resist hysteria, abstraction and misinformation.

'We cannot allow transgender rights to be reduced to statistics, an academic subject or a series of hypothetical scenarios. Everything said on the subject of trans identities has a direct impact on real people and their families.'

Writing in the column, she added: 'We must not fetishise “debate” as though debate is itself an innocuous, neutral act.

'If someone wanted to initiate a debate about whether women are innately less intelligent than men or whether disabled people should be paid the same level of wages as non-disabled people, we would rightly be appalled at such a suggestion.'

In response to her tweets, Piers wrote: 'Good grief. How can a democratically elected MP have such a dreadful view of debating? Even by woke standards this is absurd.'

The Labour MP replied: 'In the past there were ‘debates’ on allowing openly gay and bisexual people in the military. I clearly mention debate in this context: creating a debate about people’s fundamental rights or equal status is a hostile act.

'Don’t spin it to stoke a right wing feeding frenzy.'

Former MEP Mr Daubney also commented: 'If you can’t debate ideas opposed to your own then frankly you do not deserve to be an elected representative. Win the battle of ideas, don’t dodge it.'

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Mr Hannan added: 'The woke Left is becoming uncomfortable with reason, empiricism, free enquiry, the scientific method - the whole Enlightenment package.

'Those scare quotes around "debate" tell you everything you need to know.'

Ms Whittome, who became the UK's youngest MP after gaining her seat in December last year, has previously sparked backlash from Twitter users after comparing Parliament to Hogwarts.

She told ITV's Peston in January: 'It feels like joining Hogwarts but when the death eaters have taken over. I've got my acceptance letter but I've rocked up and Severus Snape is the headteacher, the death eaters are all teaching.'

One social media user described the comments as 'just dreadful' while another posted: 'Cringe.'

The debate follows author JK Rowling joining Margaret Atwood, Salman Rushdie, Noam Chomsky and Martin Amis to sign an open letter defending free speech earlier this month.

The group of artists, writers and academics decried the weakening of public debate and warned the free exchange of information and ideas was in jeopardy amid a rise in what they call 'illiberalism.'
 

Voyageur

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And now we have a new winner of the debate! No, wait! Of non-debate!!!
'Baby of the House' Labour MP Nadia Whittome, 24
Many of the last number of posts have been a little tough on ones sensibilities, if not jaw-dropping and even strangeness (I'll steer the grandchild away from taking art classes with that one @bjorn ;-)).

Now speaking of non-debate's and babies in the house, and being this thread relates to Mr. Peterson; free speech et cetera, had a listen to Mikhaila Peterson who interviews Lauren Southern (both relatively new moms) on a gambit of questions. The questions ranged from, of course, being new moms in this age, along with such things as hormonal changes, emotional levels, continuing with what they were doing (in Lauren's case this includes working on her documentaries - and good for her). This moves to balancing - changes in thinking - while all the stuff in the world is happening (riots, plandemic, cancel and the green new deals, Antifa the anti-fascist fascists, the fall of monuments, blm and so on and so forth - courtesy of the dark forces), and back to being moms. Lauren, at one point, mentions (not quoting her) that while people are locked up in the west with all their pent up progressive anger looking to rip apart the ideas of social being and creation - looking for their next hate identity target to practice upon, there are people who might look over from, say Yemen, and ask that while you people are having your strings pulled by the hawks, they are relentlessly dropping bombs on our heads and we are little hungry. That is not exactly what she said, I'm just filling in the blanks. She did say that she herself has had to look back at her own life - in the social picture.

Having listened to them both over the years there is this certain maturity level seen that is growing, and it is great to see. The younger gen's could learn a lot from them, and so can some of the older ones.

The podcast/video is from July 14th and comes in from Belgrade where Mikhalia (then at least) was active caring for her dad.

Thought it pretty good.

Here is a direct link to Mikhakia's website/podcast talking with Lauren with some show notes:

Episode 11: the Art of the Public Hiatus with Lauren Southern

 

RedFox

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
If anyone is interested in what's going on in Portland (orthe US as a whole), Tim Pool does decent news coverage on his YouTube channel and Bret Weinstein's podcast have been covering a lot of what is going on with the culture wars on the ground.

Anyway, I thought I'd share a paper that was brought up on Bret's podcast today.
Published online 2020 Jul 18.
PMCID: PMC7369609
PMID: 32715130
The Dark Triad traits predict authoritarian political correctness and alt-right attitudes

Abstract
It is well established that mainstream personality traits are associated with moderate, traditional political attitudes. However, very little is known regarding trait predictors of extreme political attitudes. In the current study (N = 511 U.S. residents), we examined the relationships between the Dark Triad traits, Entitlement and three extreme political attitudes that are highly covered in mainstream media: White Identitarianism (‘Alt-Right’), Political Correctness-Authoritarianism, and Political Correctness-Liberalism. We found that Dark Triad traits and Entitlement had incremental validity in the prediction of these 3 attitudes over demographic factors. The Dark Triad traits and Entitlement explained a substantial portion of variance in White Identitarianism and Political Correctness-Authoritarianism, and only a small portion of variance in Political Correctness-Liberalism. Across all attitudes, Psychopathy and Entitlement were the most consistent, strongest predictors. Results indicate that, from a Dark Triad perspective, Authoritarian PC advocates have more in common with extreme right advocates than those holding PC views related to compassion.

[..]
Political Correctness-Authoritarianism (PCA);
Political Correctness-Liberalism (PCL);
White Identitarianism (WI);
Alt-Right (AR);

4. Discussion
The purpose of this paper was to assess whether DT traits and entitlement predict three extreme, but increasingly mainstream, sets of political attitudes. The three extreme attitudes we measured have received extensive media attention over the previous few years however, have been the focus of very little academic research. Given the largely antisocial and violent outcomes these attitudes have been linked to, we investigated their relationship with the DT personality traits and entitlement. As hypothesised, we found incremental effects of the DT traits and entitlement in predicting two of the three political attitudes. Psychopathy, which is characterised by lack of empathy and antisocial behavior was a strong DT predictor of all political attitudes. It positively predicted WI and PCA and negatively predicted PCL. This was true both when assessing bivariate correlations (which can be regarded as moderate in magnitude) as well as when assessing regression coefficients in PCA and PCL. Machiavellianism was the strongest unique predictor of WI, however the meaning of this is not clear given the known high correlations between DT traits. Whilst Narcissism had significant bivariate correlations with WI and PCA, it tended to have small and non-significant effects when controlling for entitlement at step three. Indeed entitlement was a moderate, unique predictor of both WI and PCA and the strongest trait predictor of PCA.

Interestingly, the results indicate that, although these attitudes are thought to reflect opposing ends of the traditional left (PC) vs right (WI) political spectrum, those high in WI and PCA are very similar in terms of their ‘dark’ profile. It is possible therefore that DT traits do not influence left vs right political orientation in the same manner as the Big Five (i.e. openness to experience and conscientiousness predict political left and political right political orientation respectively), but rather influence the strategies that that people use to achieve their ideological goals. For example, right and left oriented individuals high in trait psychopathy might use similar aggressive means to achieve their goals, despite such methods being inconsistent with traditional, compassionate, left-oriented values.


Our finding that high PCA and WI individuals have certain similarities is consistent with a recent study by Conway et al. (2018) who found support for a left-wing authoritarianism scale and demonstrated symmetry with the RWA scale in terms of prejudice and dogmatism. We believe our findings complement these nicely, in demonstrating how these attitudes relate to underlying dark personality traits. We note however that a key difference in our study was our use of a multidimensional measure of PC including both liberal and authoritative aspects and demonstrating different associations with DT and entitlement. Our results supported the idea that PC attitudes are multidimensional and, not surprisingly, DT traits and entitlement are more important when predicting PCA rather than PCL.

We note a few limitations that partially limit the conclusions of our study. In particular, our study was cross-sectional and contained only U.S. participants meaning we cannot make strong claims regarding causation and our results strictly cannot be generalised beyond the U.S. Additionally, many of our measures are relatively new and although we provided evidence for internal reliability, it is possible they are not precise measures of the constructs we focus on in this paper. We therefore suggest that future research confirm the validity of our measures, particularly regarding how they relate to similar constructs including LWA and RWA.

In conclusion, our study indicates that an emerging set of mainstream political attitudes – most notably PCA, WI, are largely being adopted by individuals high in the DT and entitlement. Individuals high in authoritarianism – regardless of whether the hold politically correct or right-wing views – tend to score highly on DT and entitlement. Such individuals therefore are statistically more likely than average to be higher in psychopathy, narcissism, Machiavellianism and entitlement. We found both moderate bivariate effects and unique effects (regression coefficients) and conclude that the DT and entitlement have important shared and unique effects in predicting our attitudinal outcomes.
 

Esprit

Jedi Master
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MEETING THE ENEMY A feminist comes to terms with the Men's Rights movement | Cassie Jaye | TEDxMarin.
I was expecting something else when I clicked on the video. Turns out it was a ray of light on the divisions between feminists and men. It's nice to see some hope in people's judgement.

There is a TedTalk she has done and also a movie called The red pill.

I did not watched the movie yet.
 

Esprit

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I watched the movie it was good, well done. By simply listening of both sides of the interviews, man movements vs feminists the biased is pretty obvious.

The same situation is happening with JBP where the protesters are just screaming and shouting without even listening to a single word...it's just automatic hate speech.

I think one way to heal the differences between both parties is to admit that they can both have a dark side.
 

Debra

Jedi Master
Mikhaila Peterson shared this today, and since she does mention JP, I knew you all would appreciate the info.
I will add that her eloquent and detailed descriptions of how they experienced the symptoms,cycles of fever, coming in waves, and different organs and tissues being affected by the "information download" that happened to them, fits GNM Healing symptoms very accurately.

So, Mikhaila writes under the Video:

I had covid.
Mine really wasn't that bad.
Thank you all beef lion diet.
This video was taken a few weeks ago during coronavirus.
Like I said, it wasn't that bad.
My dad got walloped by covid medication however, as if this year needed to get worse :( .
He's almost recovered from the virus.

Symptoms: 18 days in total of on and off symptoms: Nausea - mild - the first week and a half Bloating - the whole time off and on Diarrhea - first week and a half Muscle soreness - the whole time off and on Stuffy nose - the whole time off and on Sore throat/itchy throat - minor off and on Puffy face - looked way worse than I felt Skin break-outs 2 minor days of wheezing (barely noticeable) 3 days off and on fever of 37.5 (barely noticeable)
Sneezing - near the end I recovered by drinking vitamin c and taking zinc, sticking to my all beef diet, and just living life like I would with any other virus (plus quarantined).
It most definitely wasn't the worst virus I've had in the last year - however I have a toddler.
I'm not sure what horrible virus she brought home last fall but it was way worse than this.

 

Persej

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
So they decided to go into quarantine in hospital for several weeks, but ten days after everybody in hospital got infected. I don't understand this part. Have they infected people in the hospital, or it was other way around?

I would also like to hear what kind of brutal treatment was he receiving, because it doesn't sound like the standard treatment that people get in public hospitals.

Mikhaila Peterson, 28, told The Sun her dad caught coronavirus in a Serbian hospital whilst recovering for an over-reliance on the anti-anxiety drug Benzodiazepine.

"He was put on a whole bunch of, kind of preemptively, he was put on anti-virals and things," Mikhaila Peterson said.

"I don't know if that was necessary, because his symptoms weren't that bad -- he didn't have a cough, he had a mild fever, but they just put him on everything.

Mikhaila also said her father is suffering from pneumonia, the second time this year he has fought the illness.

"And so now we've had a step back in his recovery. Life is just not good, things are not good right now," she said.

"He'll get better, but he's definitely taken a step back and it's just really unfortunate... it's been a disaster."

 

Debra

Jedi Master
So, for an update, posted by JP's Daughter on her Facebook page with a bit more info on stuff connected to Jordan's health:
In answer to your query @Persej,
So they decided to go into quarantine in hospital for several weeks, but ten days after everybody in hospital got infected. I don't understand this part. Have they infected people in the hospital, or it was other way around?
I highlighted her words, just to be clear.
They were not in Hospital quarantine, they were self quarantined in the apartment.

"I had covid-19. This is what I looked like during it (although there we’re definitely rougher looking puffier days). ⁣
⁣As if this year couldn’t get any weirder, my family caught coronavirus in Belgrade. ⁣
Long story short, we got to Belgrade and the country was COMPLETELY open, no masks necessary.

A month later everything shut down again after elections.
Politics...
We all went back into quarantine because we’re with my dad and he’s high risk. He already had pneumonia this year. 10 days into the strict quarantine - and I mean strict, we didn’t go outside of the property - my toddler got symptoms of a flu - swiftly followed by the rest of us. Turns out a lot of people in Belgrade caught it, she must have caught it at the playground.⁣

Dad’s doctor immediately told us it was covid and I full on didn’t believe him for 2 weeks. It was too mild for me, I thought. During that two week period I had symptoms like nausea, bloating, diarrhea, stuffy nose, puffy face, skin breakouts, muscle weakness, a few days of a slight temperature and a very very slight wheeze for two days. Not the worst virus I’ve had in the last year, although the symptoms lasted longer - off and on for 18 days and there’s still lingering bloating. ⁣

I would also like to hear what kind of brutal treatment was he receiving, because it doesn't sound like the standard treatment that people get in public hospitals.
Below, she says "The meds dad was put on..." meaning the MEDICATION given to JP, by the Doctors, is what did the most HARM to him, in her opinion, not the mild symptoms of covid.

"My dad caught it too and he didn’t have many symptoms either. When they did a CT scan they said 40 percent of his lungs were affected, however his breathing was fine. They treated him just incase. The meds dad was put on to treat it seemed to be harsher than the actual virus, he’s okay now too.⁣

I used to be an “at risk person”. I was on immune suppressants, I’ve had bronchitis at least 12 times, pneumonia 3x and I’ve been hospitalized for it once. I still stand by my previous complaints about locking down countries.⁣

I’m sorry to anyone who has experienced a worse case
of the virus or who has lost anyone to it. That’s miserable. So is suicide from lockdown anxiety and lifelong neuroticism from children growing up in a lockdown though 🙃. ⁣

Perhaps if we focused on making people healthier the world wouldn’t be so screwed up by a virus that doesn’t really kill healthy people... yikes, I went there. Video of the experience on YouTube. @ Belgrade, Serbia"
She included these pictures and memes:
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Rich

The Living Force
Good to hear JP is up and well.
I've had interesting comments on VK mobile version | VK
I've had a profile there for a while and compared to FB I find it more open.
A few days ago I had a comment on one of the typical anti-mask, anti-vaccine and a post of a JP video.
The comment I saw was that JP is a nazi
I have heard of similar anti JP rhetoric in the past but I just found the context of this message to me bizarre and just do not understand how anyone can make that comparrison?
My response was to change my profile pic to one of JP and me when he had given a talk in Cambridge UK last year. And told him to "clean his room" :)
Before I could follow up to the JP-Nazi believer his account was removed by VK
Bizarre but I would love to watch JP talk again if the situation ever arises :)
 

Debra

Jedi Master
For anyone interested, here is a little essay post from Mikhaila Peterson.

She seems to have no problem explaining Jordans Philosophies , advice and principles to others, and she does it in a very honest and humble way, in my opinion.

I will post the "screenshots of the "convo"(conversation) she is responding to, at the bottom:

𝗣𝗿𝗶𝘃𝗶𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗲 ⁣

Swipe right to see a comment I responded to. It was a good convo! I thought I’d expand on my thoughts.⁣

People have completely different lives. Some people have lives that are so hard it’s hard to fathom. Some people are ill, some care for dying family, some can’t get fresh water, some are born with facial deformities. ⁣

If you’re not actively suffering, you’re lucky.⁣

I believe most people have to struggle their way through life just to keep their head above water. Some people who have it easier choose to take on incredibly difficult tasks. Some people do both. Then there are others that complain that someone else needs to repent for the difficulties they themselves have. Or even worse, some people have lives so easy that they blame people for what difficulties other people have. ⁣

That is the wrong way to deal with difficulties. ⁣

You deal with difficulties by trying to make the world a better place, starting with your own life. You don’t get resentful and blame things that happened, or other people. It’ll ruin your life. If you try to and make your world a better place, or at least make it slightly more tolerable - you will improve your life.⁣

Why choose to be upset about something you can’t do anything about when there’s so much you can do that you’re not doing?⁣

Trying to improve your life is way harder than complaining about someone else. ⁣

Taking responsibility for things in your life that are wrong is the only way to get rid of them – if you’re lucky. I managed to drag myself out of autoimmune and mental disorders by taking responsibility for them and deciding “I am going to cure this no matter what.” ⁣

You have more power than you know to change your circumstances. You can always make a situation worse. No matter how horrible the situation is. If that’s true, wouldn’t it be reasonable to say you can do something to make the situation better? If that’s the case, how much better? What if you did that every day? ⁣

Isn’t there enough suffering to just try and alleviate a little bit of it? ⁣

Shoutout to having @jordanbpeterson as a dad and all the people having a hard time trying to keep their head above water
❤

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