Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

Possibility of Being

FOTCM Member
I don’t see how grammar is racist.
It's not that grammar is racist. It's you who are racist if you don't make mistakes!

A few more quotes from the website bjorn quoted above. I'd put them in the category: "Where Orwell failed with his imagination."

"Professor says grading, good grammar are examples of white supremacy"
“grading is a great way to protect the white property of literacy in schools and maintain the white supremacist status quo without ever being white supremacist or mentioning race.”
"Faculty workshops designed to persuade teachers not to grade based upon merit are popping up at universities..."
this workshop is ... designed to teach faculty “how to assess writing without judging its quality.”


Jedi Master
And now we have a new winner of the debate! No, wait! Of non-debate!!! :umm:

'Baby of the House' Labour MP Nadia Whittome, 24, launches attack on free speech by saying 'the very act of debate is a rollback of equality’ in article about trans rights

PUBLISHED: 15:44 BST, 24 July 2020 | UPDATED: 17:10 BST, 24 July 2020

'Baby of the House' Labour MP Nadia Whittome, 24, has launched an attack on free speech by saying the 'very act of debate is a rollback of equality' in an article about trans rights.

The MP for Nottingham East wrote a column for The Independent which was published yesterday, titled: 'The only way to avoid hysteria about trans rights is to ground the debate in real life experiences'.

Ms Whittome shared the article on Twitter, posting in a series of tweets that the 'very act of debate in these cases is an effective rollback of assumed equality'.

But the argument sparked backlash from Good Morning Britain presenter Piers Morgan, alongside MEPs Daniel Hannan and Martin Daubney.

Ms Whittome said: 'Much of the media coverage, pundit commentary and social media discussions centred on trans rights are fixated on manufacturing short-term outrage, rarely allowing us intelligent, humane understanding of the real, lived experiences of trans people in our society.

'But any public discourse on protecting and advancing the rights of trans people must be firmly grounded in these real-life experiences in order to resist hysteria, abstraction and misinformation.

'We cannot allow transgender rights to be reduced to statistics, an academic subject or a series of hypothetical scenarios. Everything said on the subject of trans identities has a direct impact on real people and their families.'

Writing in the column, she added: 'We must not fetishise “debate” as though debate is itself an innocuous, neutral act.

'If someone wanted to initiate a debate about whether women are innately less intelligent than men or whether disabled people should be paid the same level of wages as non-disabled people, we would rightly be appalled at such a suggestion.'

In response to her tweets, Piers wrote: 'Good grief. How can a democratically elected MP have such a dreadful view of debating? Even by woke standards this is absurd.'

The Labour MP replied: 'In the past there were ‘debates’ on allowing openly gay and bisexual people in the military. I clearly mention debate in this context: creating a debate about people’s fundamental rights or equal status is a hostile act.

'Don’t spin it to stoke a right wing feeding frenzy.'

Former MEP Mr Daubney also commented: 'If you can’t debate ideas opposed to your own then frankly you do not deserve to be an elected representative. Win the battle of ideas, don’t dodge it.'


Mr Hannan added: 'The woke Left is becoming uncomfortable with reason, empiricism, free enquiry, the scientific method - the whole Enlightenment package.

'Those scare quotes around "debate" tell you everything you need to know.'

Ms Whittome, who became the UK's youngest MP after gaining her seat in December last year, has previously sparked backlash from Twitter users after comparing Parliament to Hogwarts.

She told ITV's Peston in January: 'It feels like joining Hogwarts but when the death eaters have taken over. I've got my acceptance letter but I've rocked up and Severus Snape is the headteacher, the death eaters are all teaching.'

One social media user described the comments as 'just dreadful' while another posted: 'Cringe.'

The debate follows author JK Rowling joining Margaret Atwood, Salman Rushdie, Noam Chomsky and Martin Amis to sign an open letter defending free speech earlier this month.

The group of artists, writers and academics decried the weakening of public debate and warned the free exchange of information and ideas was in jeopardy amid a rise in what they call 'illiberalism.'


FOTCM Member
And now we have a new winner of the debate! No, wait! Of non-debate!!!
'Baby of the House' Labour MP Nadia Whittome, 24
Many of the last number of posts have been a little tough on ones sensibilities, if not jaw-dropping and even strangeness (I'll steer the grandchild away from taking art classes with that one @bjorn ;-)).

Now speaking of non-debate's and babies in the house, and being this thread relates to Mr. Peterson; free speech et cetera, had a listen to Mikhaila Peterson who interviews Lauren Southern (both relatively new moms) on a gambit of questions. The questions ranged from, of course, being new moms in this age, along with such things as hormonal changes, emotional levels, continuing with what they were doing (in Lauren's case this includes working on her documentaries - and good for her). This moves to balancing - changes in thinking - while all the stuff in the world is happening (riots, plandemic, cancel and the green new deals, Antifa the anti-fascist fascists, the fall of monuments, blm and so on and so forth - courtesy of the dark forces), and back to being moms. Lauren, at one point, mentions (not quoting her) that while people are locked up in the west with all their pent up progressive anger looking to rip apart the ideas of social being and creation - looking for their next hate identity target to practice upon, there are people who might look over from, say Yemen, and ask that while you people are having your strings pulled by the hawks, they are relentlessly dropping bombs on our heads and we are little hungry. That is not exactly what she said, I'm just filling in the blanks. She did say that she herself has had to look back at her own life - in the social picture.

Having listened to them both over the years there is this certain maturity level seen that is growing, and it is great to see. The younger gen's could learn a lot from them, and so can some of the older ones.

The podcast/video is from July 14th and comes in from Belgrade where Mikhalia (then at least) was active caring for her dad.

Thought it pretty good.

Here is a direct link to Mikhakia's website/podcast talking with Lauren with some show notes:

Episode 11: the Art of the Public Hiatus with Lauren Southern



The Living Force
FOTCM Member
If anyone is interested in what's going on in Portland (orthe US as a whole), Tim Pool does decent news coverage on his YouTube channel and Bret Weinstein's podcast have been covering a lot of what is going on with the culture wars on the ground.

Anyway, I thought I'd share a paper that was brought up on Bret's podcast today.
Published online 2020 Jul 18.
PMCID: PMC7369609
PMID: 32715130
The Dark Triad traits predict authoritarian political correctness and alt-right attitudes

It is well established that mainstream personality traits are associated with moderate, traditional political attitudes. However, very little is known regarding trait predictors of extreme political attitudes. In the current study (N = 511 U.S. residents), we examined the relationships between the Dark Triad traits, Entitlement and three extreme political attitudes that are highly covered in mainstream media: White Identitarianism (‘Alt-Right’), Political Correctness-Authoritarianism, and Political Correctness-Liberalism. We found that Dark Triad traits and Entitlement had incremental validity in the prediction of these 3 attitudes over demographic factors. The Dark Triad traits and Entitlement explained a substantial portion of variance in White Identitarianism and Political Correctness-Authoritarianism, and only a small portion of variance in Political Correctness-Liberalism. Across all attitudes, Psychopathy and Entitlement were the most consistent, strongest predictors. Results indicate that, from a Dark Triad perspective, Authoritarian PC advocates have more in common with extreme right advocates than those holding PC views related to compassion.

Political Correctness-Authoritarianism (PCA);
Political Correctness-Liberalism (PCL);
White Identitarianism (WI);
Alt-Right (AR);

4. Discussion
The purpose of this paper was to assess whether DT traits and entitlement predict three extreme, but increasingly mainstream, sets of political attitudes. The three extreme attitudes we measured have received extensive media attention over the previous few years however, have been the focus of very little academic research. Given the largely antisocial and violent outcomes these attitudes have been linked to, we investigated their relationship with the DT personality traits and entitlement. As hypothesised, we found incremental effects of the DT traits and entitlement in predicting two of the three political attitudes. Psychopathy, which is characterised by lack of empathy and antisocial behavior was a strong DT predictor of all political attitudes. It positively predicted WI and PCA and negatively predicted PCL. This was true both when assessing bivariate correlations (which can be regarded as moderate in magnitude) as well as when assessing regression coefficients in PCA and PCL. Machiavellianism was the strongest unique predictor of WI, however the meaning of this is not clear given the known high correlations between DT traits. Whilst Narcissism had significant bivariate correlations with WI and PCA, it tended to have small and non-significant effects when controlling for entitlement at step three. Indeed entitlement was a moderate, unique predictor of both WI and PCA and the strongest trait predictor of PCA.

Interestingly, the results indicate that, although these attitudes are thought to reflect opposing ends of the traditional left (PC) vs right (WI) political spectrum, those high in WI and PCA are very similar in terms of their ‘dark’ profile. It is possible therefore that DT traits do not influence left vs right political orientation in the same manner as the Big Five (i.e. openness to experience and conscientiousness predict political left and political right political orientation respectively), but rather influence the strategies that that people use to achieve their ideological goals. For example, right and left oriented individuals high in trait psychopathy might use similar aggressive means to achieve their goals, despite such methods being inconsistent with traditional, compassionate, left-oriented values.

Our finding that high PCA and WI individuals have certain similarities is consistent with a recent study by Conway et al. (2018) who found support for a left-wing authoritarianism scale and demonstrated symmetry with the RWA scale in terms of prejudice and dogmatism. We believe our findings complement these nicely, in demonstrating how these attitudes relate to underlying dark personality traits. We note however that a key difference in our study was our use of a multidimensional measure of PC including both liberal and authoritative aspects and demonstrating different associations with DT and entitlement. Our results supported the idea that PC attitudes are multidimensional and, not surprisingly, DT traits and entitlement are more important when predicting PCA rather than PCL.

We note a few limitations that partially limit the conclusions of our study. In particular, our study was cross-sectional and contained only U.S. participants meaning we cannot make strong claims regarding causation and our results strictly cannot be generalised beyond the U.S. Additionally, many of our measures are relatively new and although we provided evidence for internal reliability, it is possible they are not precise measures of the constructs we focus on in this paper. We therefore suggest that future research confirm the validity of our measures, particularly regarding how they relate to similar constructs including LWA and RWA.

In conclusion, our study indicates that an emerging set of mainstream political attitudes – most notably PCA, WI, are largely being adopted by individuals high in the DT and entitlement. Individuals high in authoritarianism – regardless of whether the hold politically correct or right-wing views – tend to score highly on DT and entitlement. Such individuals therefore are statistically more likely than average to be higher in psychopathy, narcissism, Machiavellianism and entitlement. We found both moderate bivariate effects and unique effects (regression coefficients) and conclude that the DT and entitlement have important shared and unique effects in predicting our attitudinal outcomes.


Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
MEETING THE ENEMY A feminist comes to terms with the Men's Rights movement | Cassie Jaye | TEDxMarin.
I was expecting something else when I clicked on the video. Turns out it was a ray of light on the divisions between feminists and men. It's nice to see some hope in people's judgement.

There is a TedTalk she has done and also a movie called The red pill.

I did not watched the movie yet.


Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I watched the movie it was good, well done. By simply listening of both sides of the interviews, man movements vs feminists the biased is pretty obvious.

The same situation is happening with JBP where the protesters are just screaming and shouting without even listening to a single's just automatic hate speech.

I think one way to heal the differences between both parties is to admit that they can both have a dark side.
Top Bottom