Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

[Joe]

At first I thought, as the interview went viral (1.8m views at the moment), that a lynching mob was after the interviewer. I read a lot of the comments posted on Youtube, a good portion went after the interviewer for being ja bad interviewer with an obvious agenda and failing and thus demostrating his arguments, but nothing too extreme in general, and the same happened on Twitter.

Then it came to me that perhaps this is diverting the attention away from the interviewer, it reverses the perception and setting a victimisation light. And Peterson's response was adequate, distancing himself from any bashing. Can we expect the next level up of difficulties for Peterson as he becomes more and more famous?

Yes, this is complete upside down. "Vicious misogynistic abuse, nastiness, and threat" - you'd think she was assaulted and raped or something! I can imagine how some of JP's followers might have gone over the top and called her names, but as far as I can see, this is a minority at best. And even so, my gosh, you can't go out there as a "tough interviewer", offending your guest etc., and then whine about the other side offending you in return. How is that even feminism? How about being tough as a woman, as this interviewer clearly is on screen, without crying to the (male!) authorities to protect your feelings!? Strange times!

Not surprising that this is their response, typical "lefty" snowflakiness, calling in a private security firm because of online "abuse" in the form of calling a public person "stupid". When the average person on Twitter or FB gets 'dissed' in the way the interviewer did, they get all self-righteous and angry and scream bloody murder. The big wigs at Channel 4 and this interviewer are no different to the average person.

Glib, superficial and biased analysis is what passes for journalism across the board these days. Subjectivity rulz! Many people freak out at anything resembling an attempt at objectivity or universal truth. 'Leave my subjectivity alone you hateful racist sexist xenophobe!!!' Many people defend it as if their lives depended on it, and maybe it does in a way. Notice that the arguments against things Peterson says are invariably based in strident defense of some form of 'personal identity'. That says it all, subjectivity is god to many people.

 

[bjorb]

I do wonder what she thought of her own performance after the interview. I would not be entirely surprised if she's convinced she actually won the argument and proved her point.

No doubt. You went to a speech he gave recently Ant, right? How was it?

Ant wasn't the only one, yesterday I went with Oxajil, so the three of us are really part of a privileged few.

I think that Ant can wiselike agree that for a so called ''extreme right event'' there were no blood en soil cries, no burning torches or Nazi flags. So for those people who practised the Hitler salute all week before the mirror for this event came home rather disappointed.

Anyhow, me and Oxajil arrived around 1.30 hours to early, which was a good call since because of it we sat just before the VIP seats way up front.

When JP arrived we immediately tried to ambush him but so did plenty of others. We were so close that we could actually touch him! Anyhow 1 min later he literally said that he has to banish us. (Show was going to get down) But that still means that he gave us some personal attention!

The event could be categorized in two part. One that was solely based on Jordan Peterson, and the other about speaker had an entirely different message. There was simply no comparison.

First of, the other speaker:

He spoke about the dangers that can come with mass-immigration. A few good points were shared but in overall, it left us looking at each others, like, ''is this guy serious''

I don't want to go in to much details here right now, (I think it deserves an article about the ongoing culture war on his own) but we both agreed that it’s good that we've heard it, it helps a lot trying to understand where the Right comes from, and yes the Right is more sane then the left but that doesn't mean that they are the solution. I mean, I don't believe at all that they are motivated by hate, but it’s clear that for a big sum they are motivated by fear. (Which wiselike could turn you into a monster) The Right literally feels that their backs are against the wall and they are not entirely wrong about that. It left me with a bad vibe and I'm more then ever convinced that this culture war (Left vs Right) is going to morph into something that must never come to fruition.

Anyhow, when doomsday guy (I forget his name) was done, Jordan Peterson came on stage. And immediately this tension the previous speaker created disappeared and the whole stage felt light and different.

JP message about culture was in general: Don't be proud of your culture, take the good parts, learn from it, put it into practise, use it along the way and try to create something better of it. But in anyway, don't destroy your culture, (Like the Left is doing) nothing good can come about it.

The other speaker was about that culture has to be something patriotic, while JP message was that culture is a learning tool.

I think it was beautiful said and JP got many rounds of applause.

Anyhow, when his talk is up online I will share it here unless someone beats me to it.

After this JP had his meet and greet, but it was more like a warzone. So it became clear that we had to change tactic and adapt to at least get his autograph. So with teamwork, we succeeded in the nick of time. It was also interesting to witness that mainly only young people approached JP. While the older folks mainly stayed for the other part of the event (Debate event Left vs Right)

When JP was gone we kind of did our own thing and stayed for a few hours and after it became pretty late we left. Anyhow, it was a great evening. If you want a good sense of what JP is about, see him in person, just seeing him on youtube isn't the same. He has certain kind of energy and it really is amazing! Me and Oxajil noticed that JP was having a great time, events such as those make it clear that his struggles and his fight is worth the effort. He was looking radiant and that was great to witness.

But if you want to speak him personally for a little while, either kidnap him or get VIP cards. So next time we know what we've to do.


- I promised to summarize the event, though perhaps I forget some things that are worth mentioning.

 

[Alejo]

A very entertaining video of an interview with JP and Cathy Newman of UK's Channel 4 News (30 minutes)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54&feature=youtu.be

https://youtu.be/aMcjxSThD54

The Twitter comments are also worth checking out...

https://twitter.com/cathynewman/status/953376780492136448

Thanks for sharing Timotheos,

this was truly rather entertaining, The interviewer was not attempting to understand anything and kept on trying to trap him into a "ahh see?! you're a misogynist!" by disagreeing for disagreeing's sake. I think he handled himself very well and found some room to laugh at the ridiculousness of what was happening, and even commend her for it when he said "more power to you!" for being so stuck in what you wanted this interview to be.

 

[Joe]

I do wonder what she thought of her own performance after the interview. I would not be entirely surprised if she's convinced she actually won the argument and proved her point.

No doubt. You went to a speech he gave recently Ant, right? How was it?

Ant wasn't the only one, yesterday I went with Oxajil, so the three of us are really part of a privileged few.

I think that Ant can wiselike agree that for a so called ''extreme right event'' there were no blood en soil cries, no burning torches or Nazi flags. So for those people who practised the Hitler salute all week before the mirror for this event came home rather disappointed.

Anyhow, me and Oxajil arrived around 1.30 hours to early, which was a good call since because of it we sat just before the VIP seats way up front.

When JP arrived we immediately tried to ambush him but so did plenty of others. We were so close that we could actually touch him! Anyhow 1 min later he literally said that he has to banish us. (Show was going to get down) But that still means that he gave us some personal attention!

The event could be categorized in two part. One that was solely based on Jordan Peterson, and the other about speaker had an entirely different message. There was simply no comparison.

First of, the other speaker:

He spoke about the dangers of mass-immigration. A few good points were shared but in overall, it left us looking at each others, like, ''is this guy serious''

I don't want to go in to much details here right now, (I think it deserves an article about the ongoing culture war on his own) but we both agreed that it’s good that we've heard it, it helps a lot trying to understand where the Right comes from, and yes the Right is more sane then the left but that doesn't mean that they are the solution. I mean, I don't believe at all that they are motivated by hate, but it’s clear that for a big sum they are motivated by fear. (Which wiselike could turn you into a monster) The Right literally feels that their backs are against the wall and they are not entirely wrong about that. It left me with a bad vibe and I'm more then ever convinced that this culture war (Left vs Right) is going to morph into something that must never come to fruition.

Anyhow, when doomsday guy (I forget his name) was done, Jordan Peterson came on stage. And immediately this tension the previous speaker created disappeared and the whole stage felt light and different.

JP message about culture was in general: Don't be proud of your culture, take the good parts, learn from it, put it into practise, use it along the way and try to create something better of it. But in anyway, don't destroy your culture, (Like the Left is doing) nothing good can come about it.

The other speaker was about that culture has to be something patriotic, while JP message was that culture is a learning tool.

I think it was beautiful said and JP got many rounds of applause.

Anyhow, when his talk is up online I will share it here unless someone beats me to it.

After this JP had his meet and greet, but it was more like a warzone. So it became clear that we had to change tactic and adapt to at least get his autograph. So with teamwork, we succeeded in the nick of time. It was also interesting to witness that mainly only young people approached JP. While the older folks stayed for the part of the event (Debate event Left vs Right)

When JP was gone we kind of did our thing and stayed for a few hours and after it became pretty late we left. Anyhow, it was a great evening. If you want a good sense of what JP is about, see him in person, just seeing him on youtube isn't the same. He has certain kind of energy and it really is amazing! Me and Oxajil noticed that JP was having a great time, events such as those make it clear that his struggles and his fight is worth the effort. He was just looking radiant and that was great to witness.

But if you want to speak him personally for a little while, either kidnap him or get VIP cards. So next time we know what we've to do.


- I promised to summarize the event, though perhaps I forget some things that are worth mentioning.

Great report Bjorn, thanks. Maybe you and Oxajil can work together and put a report together for Sott?

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Joe]Great report Bjorn, thanks. Maybe you and Oxajil can work together and put a report together for Sott?[/quote]

I think that I’ve a few good points, and I'm sure Oxajil has too. I’ll write them all down and see whether it can be transformed into an article and share it with her.

And Oxajil had an article in mind to translate JP gave recently in a Dutch newspaper which was a great read. Perhaps we could combine both, (and more) or just see later on how we could use the info to good use. Whether in separate articles, or combined? We see.

To me it seems that JP isn't just the antidote for the Left, he is also the antidote for the Right in many ways. But the Right doesn't seem to understand this, they mainly see him as an ally against the Left. But if they actually listen to him, they should understand that he also has a great deal to teach them and not just the Left.

I know that nowadays we talk a lot about the Leftie craziness and rightfully so. But I'm afraid of what the Right might become because of this culture war with the Left. It kind of became evident last night.

 

[Oxajil]

Thanks for the report, Bjorn! I have recorded the whole JP talk (audio), but I think the event recorded his talk as well. Apparently there was a live streaming of it (I didn't know this beforehand, otherwise I'd post a link of it here!).

It's quite cool to see him in real life, and it was touching to see how many young adults approached him. There were some other speakers and former politicians, but they definitely didn't get the attention JP got. When the presenters of the event introduced JP, a lot of people gave him a standing ovation already, which was refreshing to see. One of the presenters said: "Looks like JP took his fanbase with him!" JP himself was very happy, kind and humble, and he took his time talking to his fans. There were so many of us though, that he got a bit flustered at some point!

One funny moment was that when someone was taking a picture of JP with a couple of others, instead of saying "Cheese!", the person taking the picture said "Lobster!" and everyone laughed, including JP while shaking his head.

When we were standing in line to get into the big room where the event would take place, I could hear people behind me talk about the Channel 4 News interview and how well JP answered her questions. After his talk, about close to 30% of the audience left to go to JP for an autograph and a small talk, most of them didn't return to the event once JP left the building.

My advice would be for those who want to strike a short conversation with him to walk up to him as soon as possible. I have to work on lowering my Agreeableness trait a bit to kind of worm my way through a little next time!

Maybe you and Oxajil can work together and put a report together for Sott?

Yeah, will do! When you have your points written down, Bjorn, we could discuss it in the Sott's group and work something out!

 

[Oxajil]

You can watch Jordan Peterson's talk in the Netherlands starting from around 2:44:40 in the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aavRerfIdJw

 

[Joe]

At first I thought, as the interview went viral (1.8m views at the moment), that a lynching mob was after the interviewer. I read a lot of the comments posted on Youtube, a good portion went after the interviewer for being ja bad interviewer with an obvious agenda and failing and thus demostrating his arguments, but nothing too extreme in general, and the same happened on Twitter.

Then it came to me that perhaps this is diverting the attention away from the interviewer, it reverses the perception and setting a victimisation light. And Peterson's response was adequate, distancing himself from any bashing. Can we expect the next level up of difficulties for Peterson as he becomes more and more famous?

Yes, this is complete upside down. "Vicious misogynistic abuse, nastiness, and threat" - you'd think she was assaulted and raped or something!

Well, it's kind of interesting that that topic of "sexual abuse" and what constitutes it, is a hot topic right now.

Another interesting thing is the push that has been ongoing for quite some time to encourage men to be more feminine and women to be more 'masculine'. It's hard not to note the possible manifestation of that fairly long-term process in the 'non binary gender' business, where it's not that you just have feminized men or masculinized women, but people who actually claim they are both a man AND a woman at the same time, or neither. All very interesting, it no clearly understandable in how it works.

 

[Joe]

You can watch Jordan Peterson's talk in the Netherlands starting from around 2:44:40 in the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aavRerfIdJw

So it was only about a 40 min talk?

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Oxajil]I have recorded the whole JP talk (audio), but I think the event recorded his talk as well. Apparently there was a live streaming of it
[/quote]

We also got a few video's I believe, but I suddenly got Parkinson's or something when I tried to film his entree. So it's a bit shaky. Perhaps you got better material. But I thought it was cool how people cheered for him and like you said, people didn't really cheer for those other guests, and there were even politicians among them. People just they didn't seem to care about them at all much.

Anyhow, I will first get some things on paper. And we could check out later what we could use.


[quote author= Joe]Maybe you and Oxajil can work together and put a report together for Sott?

[quote author= Oxajil]Yeah, will do! When you have your points written down, Bjorn, we could discuss it in the Sott's group and work something out![/quote][/quote]

Sounds good, working on it.


[quote author= Oxajil]I have to work on lowering my Agreeableness trait a bit to kind of worm my way through a little next time![/quote]

Haha well, I don't know if you noticed but some of them didn't moved for me all that much, I had to push us a bit through whenever there was an opening. And especially one guy was a little bit agitated about it. But all I had to say was. ''See this girl, she really wants an autograph, please let her through''. And suddenly he moved with a smile. You gotta rely on those ''white knights'' :P So you gave us the necessary tactical advancement. So we couldn't have reached that table where JP stood without you.

(Or I’m just being cynical and they were just amazingly kind to step a little bit aside. )

But yeah, I know it takes practice but being a bit pushy sometimes is neccesary :) (You know, there is good, bad and the moment that decides which is what) It might be rude, but you deserve an autograph just as much as anyone of those people if not more.


[quote author= Joe]So it was only about a 40 min talk?[/quote]

Yes, I hoped for more! But it is enough to make an article about it, he gave good quotes. And we could use more info of JP. OSIT.

 

[meta-agnostic]

Here is Sargon of Akkad's deconstruction of the Cathy Newman interview. He does go a little bit into his anti-feminist, anti-SJW youtuber shtick at times but explains all of her logical fallacies pretty well. It's a little over an hour long, twice as long as the actual interview.

https://youtu.be/PXJeghw-cRk

 

[Gwenllian]

You can watch Jordan Peterson's talk in the Netherlands starting from around 2:44:40 in the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aavRerfIdJw

Thanks for the report! I think it is great you and Bjorn will be writing an article about it. It's so good to hear that JP enjoyed it and that he looked radiant! He said so in a tweet that the organiser Rutger van den Noort posted. There was a lot of negative press coverage about this event beforehand and afterwards, so the culture war is going strong.

 

[Ant22]

I do wonder what she thought of her own performance after the interview. I would not be entirely surprised if she's convinced she actually won the argument and proved her point.

No doubt. You went to a speech he gave recently Ant, right? How was it?

That's correct Joe, I went to his book presentation event last Sunday. I’m really glad I went, it was truly educational, enjoyable and at times entertaining too. A live lecture with such useful content really makes an incredible impression.

The talk was a blend of concepts he previously discussed in his videos as well as some new content (at least for me). Some of the topics I remembered from his online lectures were illustrated by different examples during the talk and this is where a couple of 'aha' moments happened for me personally. Also, the way he structured the presentation made previously theoretical content suddenly hit home for me. And judging by the conversations I heard while queuing up to get the book signed - I wasn’t the only person who felt that way.

JP said he was going to lay out a number of concepts first, and then he was going to explain how they all fit together. I found this approach to be very engaging because it made me curious to find out what the connection was.

The audience was told that due to the number of people in the room we weren't allowed to take individual photos with him but it was OK to "photobomb him", as the organiser put it. Which is precisely what I did :)

The videos available online are of his earlier talk and it will be interesting to watch it and compare it with the event I went to. JP made a couple of comments that indicated there may be a few differences, such as, "I wasn't going to talk about it but I gave a structured talk earlier today and I don't give exactly the same talk again" (or something along those lines) or "I was going to stop there but I'm not going to do that".

This was supposed to be a 1 hour and 15 minutes talk but it lasted around 1h 45min. With three standing ovations at the end!

Close to the end of the event JP said his wife was in there too. She stood up to wave to the audience and got her own round of applause.

(...) JP himself was very happy, kind and humble, and he took his time talking to his fans. (...)

Apart from taking the time to talk to his fans, which was impossible given the turnout, I got the same impression of him. Close to the end of his talk he thanked everyone for coming and he told us how much he himself enjoyed being there, how much he liked London as a city and both his words and his humble tone of voice got him a standing ovation.

What a guy!

 

[Oxajil]

Yeah, JP's keynote speech at the Dutch event wasn't very long.

That's correct Joe, I went to his book presentation event last Sunday. I’m really glad I went, it was truly educational, enjoyable and at times entertaining too.

Thanks for sharing, Ant22! :) It certainly sounds more structured than the Dutch event! Good to hear you had a fruitful time.

 

[Joe]

Yeah, JP's keynote speech at the Dutch event wasn't very long.

That's correct Joe, I went to his book presentation event last Sunday. I’m really glad I went, it was truly educational, enjoyable and at times entertaining too.

Thanks for sharing, Ant22! :) It certainly sounds more structured than the Dutch event! Good to hear you had a fruitful time.

Yes, thanks for the write up. Did either of you happen to get an idea of what the male to female ratio was?