Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

My wife just sent me this from buzzfeed: _https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/college-trump-supporters-the-new-counterculture

I think it's a good piece about the consequences of PC authoritarianism. Geez, this is Orwell on steroids!

College Trump Supporters: “We’re The New Counterculture”

The new campus radicals quietly voted for Trump — and they want you to stop whining about it.


A week after Donald Trump won the presidency, many students on the University of Delaware campus were still devastated. Professors at the blue-state public school where Vice President Joe Biden is an alumnus canceled classes, helped organize marches, and held discussions so that students could process their feelings and fears.

But the UD students who voted for Trump were thrilled. It’s not just that their candidate won, but that the Democrats’ reliance on “identity politics” failed. Hillary Clinton’s campaign bet on the votes of women, minorities, the LGBT community, and other groups whose political positions are often shaped by the way they identify. But the Clinton campaign didn’t just fail to get out the vote — it also alienated white people who don’t like being told they’re bigots.

Trump didn’t win the election thanks to college graduates. The majority of them backed Clinton — except for white college-educated voters, who went for Trump by a narrow four-point margin. Nevertheless, Trump voters on campuses across the country view themselves as underground rebels fighting a corrosive epidemic of political correctness. Just don’t expect them to wear their “Make America Great Again” caps to the dining hall.

“It’s the new counterculture,” said Jared, an undergraduate who wore a suit and tie to a recent meeting of the UD College Republicans. “It’s the equivalent of being a hippie protesting at Kent State,” he said, apparently referring to the 1970 Vietnam War protest that ended with National Guard troops shooting four unarmed students to death.
“Or being grunge in the ’90s,” another student chimed in.

In the 1960s, the University of California, Berkeley, was known for free-speech protests, said Andrew Lipman, a UD senior and the chairman of the Delaware Federation of College Republicans. Now, in Lipman’s view, the university is known for “silencing conservative speech, because it’s considered hateful.”

Trump’s win is a boon for every college student frustrated by progressive campus activists’ concepts that have gone mainstream, such as “trigger warnings,” “safe spaces” and “microaggressions.” Lipman wasn’t a big Trump supporter, but he’s concerned by reports from UD students who say they don’t feel comfortable voicing pro-Trump sentiments in class, in their dorms, and around campus. He’s such an advocate for free speech that he helped bring Breitbart News writer and alt-right celebrity Milo Yiannopoulos’s “Dangerous Faggot” college tour to UD two weeks before the election.

Yiannopoulos spoke about his belief that transgender people are mentally ill. (The American Psychiatric Association voted to remove “gender identity disorder” from its manual in 2012.) The day he spoke, posters of Michelle Obama’s and Caitlyn Jenner’s faces with the words “trannies are gay” appeared on UD’s campus, shocking students who were already horrified the school was allowing the event to take place, since other colleges had prevented Yiannopoulous from speaking. Yiannopoulos’s UD talk sold out.

The UD College Republicans released a statement distancing themselves from the posters. Still, Lipman said, college students want and need to be exposed to taboo issues, as well as conservatism, even when they offend (or scare) their peers.

“If they could talk about it with their friends they might not feel a need to come here [to the College Republicans] and talk about it, but they don’t have that outlet,” Lipman said. “They feel like they’re being silenced.”

Trump-supporting students told BuzzFeed News they related to the “silent majority” of older voters who resented being called “deplorable” by Hillary Clinton. In a New York Times op-ed titled “My Liberal University Cemented My Vote for Trump,” a student at Wesleyan University, the ultra left–leaning college in Middletown, Connecticut, wrote that he had investigated the alt-right and found “a diverse, intellectual and multifaceted community that prides itself on its all-encompassing embrace of free speech.” They’re not “fueled by racial resentment,” he explained; they just want a “technocracy.”

Yet, many furtive Trump supporters on college campuses refused to give their full names to BuzzFeed News because they feared being called racist.

Daniel, a New York University senior who didn’t want to give his last name “given the current climate,” said it was “aggravating” when his professors cracked jokes about the state of the country the day after the election.

“There is the assumption that nobody is going to get hurt because no one could have possibly voted for Trump in New York City, but that assumption is clearly incorrect,” he said. (He acknowledged that there were few Trump supporters on campus, and said he had looked forward to meeting more at Yiannopoulos’s planned speech there — that is, before NYU canceled it).

“At NYU, everyone feels like we need to be inclusive, but when you enforce that, you’re creating a different sort of minority group,” he said. If you try to question the concept of “safe spaces,” for example, “you’ll immediately be slammed as a hypocrite or an oppressor,” Daniel said, adding that being a white man “doesn’t help” matters.

“It’s like, yeah we’ll have open discussions as long as it’s absolutely aligned with what we already believe in,” he said.

One student at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina, said he solidified his aversion to PC culture in high school. In one class, he was chastised for writing an essay calling undocumented immigrants “illegal.” Another time, he said, he was barred from going to an Asian-American student alliance meeting because he was white. “People were so into political correctness that people’s voices were censored and nothing was heard,” he said.

At Duke, he knew his classmates and professors were liberal, so he didn’t tell anyone he supported Trump. After the election, he tentatively started posting about Trump on Facebook. But he grew nervous again when a professor told the class to write down thoughts they had about the election: “She said, ‘Say whatever you want to say, but you better be willing to have the consequences of what you say if you want to say it.‘“

He took that as a warning that his grades would suffer and he would be shunned if he publicly admitted his support for Trump.

This student canceled a second interview with a reporter because he was afraid for his physical safety after reading about anti-Trump protests coming to campus. “The hate on Duke’s campus is getting worse,” he wrote in an email.

Another Duke student, Brittany, said her seminar class conducted an anonymous poll in which she was the only one who voted for Trump. The day after the election, Duke students were offered endless support and “healing services,” which made her feel further that she could not express her excitement in public.

“The silent majority was very real,” she said. “People were embarrassed and scared to say they were voting for Trump because of fear of being labeled and even harassment.”

At the University of Delaware, Jared said there is a contingent of young people who support Trump because “they feel threatened by the fact that you cannot depart from this dogma that the majority on the campus holds without being told you are racist, being told you are sexist, having people report you for having an opinion because it, you know, threatens somebody’s identity.” Jared said he had friends who worked as resident advisers in the dorms who had to comfort people crying about the results of the election, which he thought was “absurd.”

Over lemon-drop martinis at a bar near campus, 21-year-old Ryan Dubicki rolled his eyes at distressed students on his campus and at other schools.

“I know at Harvard they had safety pins on and they had, like, dog therapy,” he said. “I don’t want to be mean to them, but they’re being crybabies right now. This is an election, guys.” If they really care that much about politics, they should get involved at the state and local level, he said, not cry to their professors.

“Professors canceling tests and classes because Trump won is why Trump won,” Dubicki said. “People were sick and tired of political correctness and identity politics, and Trump totally ran against that.”

Perhaps Dubicki embodies the new college Trump supporter: He’s gay, for one. He considers himself socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. He would have voted for Obama, if he had been old enough. And he was irritated when friends told him he should vote for Clinton instead of for someone whose victory has alarmed LGBT groups. “I was like, Hillary Clinton doesn’t speak for me — I don’t want someone who belongs in prison,” Dubicki said. Then he showed a photo, saved on his phone, of Trump unfurling a LGBT sign.

Like 75% of students on UD’s campus, Dubicki is white, and admitted his group of friends is not very diverse. But, in his opinion, “Hillary Clinton ran a campaign on minorities against whites,” he said. “Even look at her rallies: They were all minorities. There were no white people there.”

Still, he said, he had friends who supported Clinton, and they got along because they didn’t talk about politics too much. (When Dubicki isn’t in school, working, or volunteering for Republican causes, he enjoys watching Friends reruns — Season 5 is his favorite). He made fun of an email UD President Dennis Assanis sent students a week after the election, acknowledging that there “had been unacceptable events where members of our community have acted in ways that are divisive, demeaning and even hateful” and promising UD would “ensure that free speech and diversity will coexist and even flourish in our society.”
Dubicki thought it was embarrassing.

“Only at my school would I get an email reminding me to respect others’ opinions and beliefs, which I was already raised to do,” he wrote on Facebook afterward. “This is why I hate my generation and being a millennial.”


[Enter the left PC authoritarian]

At a coffee shop near campus, Jaelyn Brown, the president of UD’s College Democrats, had a different reaction to the email: She thought it was too little, too late.

Why didn’t Assanis denounce the hate crimes reported around the country in the wake of Trump’s victory? Why did he wait a week to try and comfort UD students like her who are devastated and afraid? She doesn’t know any Trump supporters, because her friends are politically engaged feminists, she said. Now, she can’t stop wondering who around her on campus voted for him. [And that's how it starts... the guys in the Gestapo prolly just wanted to protect someone, too!]

“The most frustrating thing about this is that for people of color, trans people, women… their lives are actually in jeopardy,” said Brown, who is black. “Your life as a white guy is not in jeopardy if Hillary Clinton is president.” [Oh, the ignorance...]

Next May, Brown will graduate. Once, she thought about going into politics — she campaigned for Clinton last winter break — but now, she’s not so sure. [Probably because her plans for a glorious career as an 'identity activist' were busted along with Killary]

“A lot of the rhetoric you hear from Trump supporters is ‘I’m not personally racist,’ and it’s like, ‘You actively supported a racist,’” she said. “You chose to ignore it, which is incredibly privileged. It’s scary as a woman. It’s scary as a woman of color. It’s going to be a difficult couple of years.”

Although Trump has vowed to end political correctness nationwide, he’s also co-opted the same progressive concepts he’s mocked. On Saturday, he tweeted that a theater “must always be a safe and special place” following Mike Pence’s “rude” treatment at the Broadway musical Hamilton. [Paramoralism... Nobody ever said violence is okay]

Trump also successfully ran on his own identity-politics platform, Brown said, by appealing to large swaths of resentful white voters sick of feeling ignored.

“This was the last-ditch effort of the white male to stay in power,” she said. [Or, a last-ditch effort to prevent PC totalitarianism]
 
luc said:
My wife just sent me this from buzzfeed: _https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/college-trump-supporters-the-new-counterculture

I think it's a good piece about the consequences of PC authoritarianism. Geez, this is Orwell on steroids!

Hum, just thinking out loud here, but I’m starting to easily see how all this could have an opposite effect for all these liberal PC authoritarians.
As Peterson has tried to point out.
Peeve the silent majority and then when they are falsely given a voice by the “right leader”, who then will defend the pc liberals when that “leader” truly goes after the liberals.

At that point I think the silent majority will cheer on the hate loudly, not realizing they are next.

“Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated.”
― George Bernard Shaw
 
Timótheos said:
I just finished watching Jordan Peterson's latest interview uploaded yesterday. He reiterates many of the points made in prior videos but it's still very good, one of my favourites so far.

University of Toronto psychology professor, Dr. Jordan Peterson, talks to NoneOfTheAbove's Sam Sholli about his opposition to Bill C-16, free speech and authoritarianism.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/wxs7C-30TLQ

Agreed! He has some very interesting things to say that go way beyond political correctness and extend into political ideology, psychology, ethics and human nature. Recommended - thanks for sharing!
 
This is a 30 minute video by Peterson from Nov. 8th called "My Message to Millenials: How to Change the World -- Properly".

I didn't see it posted here, but it is very interesting in the way in which it converges with our own ideas.

It's rather interesting that this guy has come on the scene recently over the "gender pronoun" business. If taken in isolation, that issue just sounds like madness, but when you think about it and connect the dots and listen to Peterson's take on it and what it is connected to, it goes far beyond that one issue and right into the heart of the meaning of human existence and the stark choices that now face us as individuals and a species.

Highly recommended.

 
Joe said:
This is a 30 minute video by Peterson from Nov. 8th called "My Message to Millenials: How to Change the World -- Properly".

I didn't see it posted here, but it is very interesting in the way in which it converges with our own ideas.

Excellent summary in a short 30 min - thanks Joe!
 
Here is a petition for supporting Jorden:

http://citizengo.org/en/sc/37697-support-dr-peterson-against-totalitarian-political-correctness?tc=fb&tcid=29649043

I dunno if it is legit, but from the looks of it, it looks like it is, so it might be worthwile to sign it.
 
Meanwhile we can see moves like this from Putin and Co.[notice the context, quoted below from the youtube video, to understand what Putin says and does there.

Putin DRAINS LIBERAL SWAMP:


Wrapping up a meeting about state funding for science, Putin questioned the president of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Yevgeny Fortov, about the academy's election of senior, unrelated-to-science officials as its members. Putin insinuated that they may fired if they are found to be moonlighting as academics. In the past few months, Putin has been taking a tough line on errant bureaucrats. Several senior officials have been fired, while the Economic Minister, Alexei Ulyukayev, has been detained on a charge of a $2 million bribe.

"Drain the swamp" is a catch phrase from the Trump campaign, aimed at eliminating corruption from Washington.

Text from The Saker:
"The truth is that the members of the Academy of science are elected for life and they receive large monthly payments, for life.
The idea is that scientists should dedicate themselves to their research - that’s why they are paid by the government.

There are limited number of the memberships available, about 800. The government officials abusing their power, forcing themselves into the science community, and taking places from the real scientists. This is also how they aid foreign governments in thier efforts to destroy Russian science.

Don’t be fooled by Putin’s calm demeanour. Next we will see many apparatchiks going down. Fingers crossed, Medvedev will be one of them."

Lol , gold!

So Putin and Co. seem to know how important it is that so called "liberals" and "progressives" do not get the change to further "their cause" by insearting their "academics" into the scientific community.

They try to clear that poison out of the system.
 
Pashalis said:
So Putin and Co. seem to know how important it is that so called "liberals" and "progressives" do not get the change to further "their cause" by insearting their "academics" into the scientific community.

I read about that. Apparently Medvedev might be on the chopping block pretty soon as well. And so it seems with everything that's happening here in Canada and the States with the protests, this liberal agenda does seem to be that sort of main organ that is bringing about the destruction of all society values and principles. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised Putin's ahead of the game and making the necessary changes. It's nuts, because I would have considered myself a "liberal-minded" person just a few years ago, maybe even last year. But this melting pot that they are trying to create of gender fluidity, even delving into the realm of saying biological sex is a social construct is totally nuts. If "they" are willing to push forward with that kind of agenda, there's no telling what's next and how far this will go.

Putin's purge of the liberals: Will Nikolai Patrushev be Russia's next PM?

With the recent arrest of the Russian economy minister Aleksey Ulyukaev by the FSB, the Russian equivalent of the FBI, the president Vladimir Putin's purge of the liberal faction within the Kremlin nomenklatura is now in the full public view.[1] This faction is headed by the Russian prime minister Dmitry Medvedev who succeeded Putin as the president from 2008 to 2012. It now appears that Medvedev is in danger of losing his position and perhaps, just like Ulyukaev, his freedom as well. In fact, the last month's sudden cancellation of Medvedev's trip to Serbia,[2] which at this time is the only (and hence very significant) official Russian ally in East-Central Europe, demonstrates that his authority is already seriously eroded.
 
I listened to 4 or 5 of Peterson's lectures (they're each roughly an hour long) and while there is valuable information in there,he doesn't at all seem to be aware of psychopathy or the effect they have on authoritarians,instead seeing the entire population as shades of gray.Also he sees the USSR and Nazi Germany as the epitome of evil and never once mentions a single crime perpetrated by the British or American establishments against any number of people and countries around the world.So his viewpoint is very western despite being well versed in Russian literature.He also seems to be unaware of the ''Great Game'' that is taking place between east and west or the underhanded methods used by western intel agencies.In fact in one of his lectures he expressed some worry because Putin used to be in the KGB :rolleyes:
 
Hindsight Man said:
I listened to 4 or 5 of Peterson's lectures (they're each roughly an hour long) and while there is valuable information in there,he doesn't at all seem to be aware of psychopathy or the effect they have on authoritarians,instead seeing the entire population as shades of grey.

I've watched all of his posted videos since September when he began his public stance against creeping PC dogma in universities and into Canadian legislation, as well as a few of his lectures before that. He does touch on the topic of psychopathology a few times, if only briefly, and being a very well read Canadian psychologist, I highly doubt that he is unaware of the work and research done on psychopaths by Robert Hare out of the University of BC.

I think it's also likely that he is familiar with the work of Bob Altemeyer out of the University of Winnipeg on right-wing authoritarianism, even though he has not mentioned the works of either professor by name, at least to my knowledge anyway.

I do agree however, that it is possible that he has not yet made the link between the presence of psychopaths in positions of power and their negative influence on the minds on authoritarian followers, and would greatly benefit from reading Political Ponerology. It seems like that book would be right up his alley, given his passion for studying the history of Stalinist Russia, and I believe a copy of PP has already been sent to him. I hope he reads it.


Hindsight Man said:
Also he sees the USSR and Nazi Germany as the epitome of evil and never once mentions a single crime perpetrated by the British or American establishments against any number of people and countries around the world.So his viewpoint is very western despite being well versed in Russian literature.He also seems to be unaware of the ''Great Game'' that is taking place between east and west or the underhanded methods used by western intel agencies.In fact in one of his lectures he expressed some worry because Putin used to be in the KGB :rolleyes:

I've been thinking a lot about the totalitarian regimes that emerged in Germany and the USSR, one from the ideologies of authoritarian right and the other from the the ideologies of the authoritarian left, with similar results from opposite ends of the political spectrum. And it brought to mind Douglas Reed's book and how he shows quite conclusively, how both movements were orchestrated and supported, at least in part, by the same group of 'usual suspects'.

Now, with this in mind, along with the warning from the C's that Nazi Germany was a "trial run" for events we are seeing unfold in the US in our present day, it occurred to me that we may see the rise of both radical ideologies at the same time and in the same place. The PC authoritarians, having taken over the social sciences in universities, are indoctrinating a whole generation of SJW activists on the left, contrasted with religious fundamentalists, militia groups and other radical ideologues on the right.

As a one group gets larger and more powerful and influential, it seems to further alienate, energize and strengthen the opposing groups as a natural consequence of how these competing systems function. As society continues to break down, people who are more in the middle might find themselves drawn further away from the centre and into the extremist camp of their leaning belief system.

And what we end up with is a literal powder keg waiting to explode. All it needs is the spark of an economic collapse, some kind of terrorist attack (false flag or otherwise), or some monumental earth changing event and it is easy to imagine how the events in Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia could come to full fruition in north America.

I can't speak for Dr. Peterson, but I think he concentrates on the murderous regimes of the early 20th century on both sides of the political spectrum as a prime example and worst possible outcome of the horrors of totalitarian belief systems. He is giving us a pretty clear warning of how such societal transformations take place even in so called "democratic and enlightened" countries such as the US and Canada.

That he hasn't touched on present day crimes of the US and the UK in their regime change operations overseas doesn't take away from the importance of his overall message I think. Not everyone has the whole banana.

Here is the latest video I watched and enjoyed very much.

 
I mostly agree with you,except understanding how regime change is instituted via foreign (psychopathic) interests is vital to avoiding such disastrous regime changes in the first place,which is why Putin purged a whole bunch of people and continues to do so to this day.After all, the Bolshevik revolution didn't begin by itself.As for UK/US,they instituted plenty of gulags of their own,not all of them on foreign soil.They have slaughtered millions over the last 2 centuries whether for money or ethnic cleansing and leaving them out is unfair,seeing as they are a big part of the very process he is trying to describe.

Though I absolutely agree that his lectures are worthwhile,I especially liked his description of biblical story of Cain and Able and their relation to being vs non-being.He certainly has a way with words.
 
Hindsight Man said:
Also he sees the USSR and Nazi Germany as the epitome of evil and never once mentions a single crime perpetrated by the British or American establishments against any number of people and countries around the world.So his viewpoint is very western despite being well versed in Russian literature.He also seems to be unaware of the ''Great Game'' that is taking place between east and west or the underhanded methods used by western intel agencies.In fact in one of his lectures he expressed some worry because Putin used to be in the KGB :rolleyes:

Maybe because he is versed in USSR literature and history, as well as German (NAZI) literature and history? I wonder what he found there?

C.S. Lewis said:
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.
 
I like Peterson, he's a very smart guy, but I was wondering if his stance against neo-marxist liberalism contains the same vehement attachment to an ideology, in his case anti-neo-marxist liberalism and the destruction of moral values and suffering it has caused. I suppose a guy a smart as him has thought about that though.
 
Joe said:
I like Peterson, he's a very smart guy, but I was wondering if his stance against neo-marxist liberalism contains the same vehement attachment to an ideology, in his case anti-neo-marxist liberalism and the destruction of moral values and suffering it has caused. I suppose a guy a smart as him has thought about that though.

I believe he's a social Darwinist.
 
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