Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Breton]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So... in just a quick question, just checking if I get what is basically going on here:

do I understand from this that when we all (or many of us) went into ketosis around last summer, we probably have not stayed in ketosis all the time since then? This was often because (for many of us) we let our protein intake get to high and the conversion to glucose stopped or slowed it? So now this Intermittent Fasting and such is necessary to heal mtDNA and ALSO is a good way to get back into ketosis as well?

I can only write a short note on my experience, I did recently some ketone tests again (with a blood meter) and it showed something with 1.2, 2.0 and 5 at different times on the day. So it can be said I was in ketosis more or less. The intermittent fasting could help out further more getting into full ketosis. But I don't the definition what is full ketosis and what not. So it is something to further improve the state of ketosis imo (with new knowledge), or kind of a kick-starter.

That may be so. However also it is good to recall the types of ketones being produced, some are not detected by the ketostix as we learned last summer, and there is this quote from "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living":

Within a few days of starting on carbohydrate restriction, most people begin excreting ketones in their urine. This occurs before serum ketones have risen to their stable adapted level because un-adapted renal tubules actively secrete beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate into the urine. This is the same pathway that clears other organic acids like uric acid, vitamin C, and penicillin from the serum.

Meanwhile, the body is undergoing a complex set of adaptations in ketone metabolism[99]. Beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate are made in the liver in about equal proportions, and both are initially promptly oxidized by muscle. But over a matter of weeks, the muscles stop using these ketones for fuel. Instead, muscle cells take up acetoacetate, reduce it to beta-hydroxybutyrate, and return it back into the circulation. Thus after a few weeks, the predominant form in the circulation is beta-hydroxybutyrate, which also happens to be the ketone preferred by brain cells (as an aside, the strips that test for ketones in the urine detect the presence of acetoacetate, not beta-hydroxybutyrate).

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So... in just a quick question, just checking if I get what is basically going on here:

do I understand from this that when we all (or many of us) went into ketosis around last summer, we probably have not stayed in ketosis all the time since then? This was often because (for many of us) we let our protein intake get to high and the conversion to glucose stopped or slowed it? So now this Intermittent Fasting and such is necessary to heal mtDNA and ALSO is a good way to get back into ketosis as well?

I haven't started the fasting or resistance training yet, but used some ketostix just to get an idea of where I was. I can't speak for everyone, but mine came out beet red. I'll still go through the protocol, but it looks like I've probably been in ketosis for most of the time since I started...

 

[Scottie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I am curious what happens during ketosis with peeps who are on the thinner side and don't want to lose more weight. Has your BW plummeted?

I'm the same weight as before I started.

 

[Joe]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We'll see what happens next.

I am curious what happens during ketosis with peeps who are on the thinner side and don't want to lose more weight. Has your BW plummeted?

Not plummeted, but dropped, which I expected to happen since I was suddenly eating significantly less food (protein) and couldn't eat so much fat because I became nauseous. So I'll give it a while longer and work on acclimatising myself to more fat than protein and try to start burning fat as the main energy source. I'll report back when I have more data in a few days.

 

[QuantumLogic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

With these new findings and experimentation, is it still advisable to wait for the gut to heal from gluten exposure before attempting this, or will doing this immediately promote healing of the gut with the proper protein to fat ratio? The recent advances of those who have been participating in this experiment is extraordinary. I have been without any grain whatsoever for a month, so I am very interested to hear your thoughts on this. If it is better to wait- I'll wait. But if this can be accelerated due to the new information- all the better.

Reading the accounts presented here is nothing less than groundbreaking. Even a few months ago, I would not have believed it. This knowledge could help many overcome one of the most powerful programs we humans seem to all have, osit. Thanks to all of you for your research, experimentation, and inspiration. It has truly changed the way I see the world.

 

[Z...]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

From my understanding it's advisable to go very low carb and completely grain free for some time in order to prepare guts to take in all the nutrients on ketogenic nutrition, most of the sources say that it can take up to 6 months to repear leaky gut, of course this depends on your age and some other individual factors, I would say its always wise to go for gradual change and give your body ample time to adjust.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

From my understanding it's advisable to go very low carb and completely grain free for some time in order to prepare guts to take in all the nutrients on ketogenic nutrition, most of the sources say that it can take up to 6 months to repear leaky gut, of course this depends on your age and some other individual factors, I would say its always wise to go for gradual change and give your body ample time to adjust.

I agree. I think that a period of being grain and dairy free and moderate to low carb enables the body to get nourished so that a period of protein restriction is not stressful. Of course, in some dire situations, it might be necessary to go ketogenic right away as they do with people with seizure disorders.

We've got such a nice selection of auto-immune conditions here in the house that it is interesting to see everyone having some benefits within a few days even if they do have to pass through some discomfort. My legs were bothering me again last night but not as badly as before.

Since auto-immune issues seem to be directly related to energy production, our theory is that this ketogenic/protein reduction process can possibly correct such things from the foundation by providing the energy to the organs and systems that the body needs to do its own healing. How much leeway can then be allowed in the diet after correction will be the next step of the experiment. But we are weeks away from that at present. We need to first see if we can get efficient energy production back that will actually act on these conditions in a positive way.

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We've concluded that we don't want to do supplementation because, as one paper points out, supplementing one function can throw off other functions, so I think it is a good idea to try to let the body do its thing without much interference. The only thing we are taking during this experiment is fish oil - just an added fat.

But yes, adjusting the protein amount carefully seems to be key.

You may find that your bowels kind of slow down because you aren't taking in so much food and nothing to irritate the colon. Not to worry, they will eventually move and the volume will be smaller because you are digesting more thoroughly, growing fewer gut bacteria.

I would like to ask about the supplementation issue because of this new experimentation Laura mentioned. Here is a list of supplements that i use:

daily: Fish oil (1 tbsp), vitamin-D3 (5000IU), vitamin-K2 (mk4/mk7 2100mcg) vitamin-E (d-alpha tocopherol 400IU), Vitamin-C (1 tsp l-ascorbic acid /bioflavonoids), magnesium sitrate (1 tsp), Kelp (iodine 150mcg).

few times a week: B3-niacin (1000mg), ALA (600mg) NAC (600mg), L-glutamine powder (1 tsp), Coentzyme-Q10 (100mg), D-ribose (1 tsp), colloidal silver 10ppm (1 tsp).

I've been going on a low carb paleo for a year soon and about 1 month i've experimenting with IF, it's been going quite well. I'm 28, weight 78kg and 185cm tall. So would it be useful to leave some of the supplements out on this list and is this the direction other forum members are perhaps going? Is there a link this paper mentioned in quoted post? Thanks!

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

A small update. Even though I kinda knew I was in ketosis (since I have energy and eat very little carbs), I tested it today and got a purple color, it was ''8 mmol/L''. So atleast I kinda know for sure now.

I am also still waking up early and then sleeping again, maybe this is what is meant by biphasic sleeping? I do notice that when I wake up early (when it's still dark outside), I feel alert and just normal, like described in that article: "In short, you would be awake and at least moderately active. [...] You’re reasonably alert and cheery." But when I move around and such and have a smoke (which all takes for like 10 minutes), I sense again that I need to sleep, so I do that. And today in the morning (after my ''second sleep'') I woke up feeling pretty well.

Also, like Scott, I've been eating too much fat, resulting in loose stools. I was already noticing nausea after each meal, so I'm going to be more easy on that.

And for what it's worth, my fasting hours range from 14-16 hours (from afternoon/evening until the morning) and 5-6 hours during the day. Maybe after one or two weeks I will try to increase the hours, but so far this seems to be going well.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

After 10 days of fasting, slowly in the first days, I now wake-up in the morning earlier than usual without feeling tired as I could do some weeks ago.
I eat fat porc on the morning (lard essentially) with a piece of bacon both cooked in the coconut oil.
During the first days, I also ate a little piece of lard and a bone broth on the evening, as I usually took one each day before fasting. It is very good, I agree with that!

I also decreased the contribution in proteins which seemed to me a little raised previously. I also think I could not eat enough fat on the morning, because I always have a sensation of hunger on the end of the afternoon.
Yesterday evening I just ate a bone broth and some salad leafs, and that's it. So, it is less food than before for me, but as mentionned previously, I do not need to loss some weight.

I am curious what happens during ketosis with peeps who are on the thinner side and don't want to lose more weight. Has your BW plummeted?

I'm the same weight as before I started.

Before starting KD and fasting my weight was already enough low: 48kg. After these ten days, I lost 800g. It is not alarming for now, and maybe I can consider at the light of researchs made here, that it could be enough good after all.

So I continue the KD with a little bit more fat. I usually take some fish-oil in the morning and will continue while I also took note about the complements. I gonna stop them for a while and see what is happening. I will report in some days to let you know the results.

I feel better than all these previous decades, from I was a teenager. Actually, my body today looks the same than I had as a teenager, before to be pregnant the first time I was. My muscles are visible again, without making special exercices while I started to do some these last days, with barbells.

With these new findings and experimentation, is it still advisable to wait for the gut to heal from gluten exposure before attempting this, or will doing this immediately promote healing of the gut with the proper protein to fat ratio? The recent advances of those who have been participating in this experiment is extraordinary. I have been without any grain whatsoever for a month, so I am very interested to hear your thoughts on this. If it is better to wait- I'll wait. But if this can be accelerated due to the new information- all the better.

Reading the accounts presented here is nothing less than groundbreaking. Even a few months ago, I would not have believed it. This knowledge could help many overcome one of the most powerful programs we humans seem to all have, osit. Thanks to all of you for your research, experimentation, and inspiration. It has truly changed the way I see the world.

Yes, it is a beautiful adventure! Thank you all, again.

 

[QuantumLogic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

From my understanding it's advisable to go very low carb and completely grain free for some time in order to prepare guts to take in all the nutrients on ketogenic nutrition, most of the sources say that it can take up to 6 months to repear leaky gut, of course this depends on your age and some other individual factors, I would say its always wise to go for gradual change and give your body ample time to adjust.

I agree. I think that a period of being grain and dairy free and moderate to low carb enables the body to get nourished so that a period of protein restriction is not stressful. Of course, in some dire situations, it might be necessary to go ketogenic right away as they do with people with seizure disorders.

We've got such a nice selection of auto-immune conditions here in the house that it is interesting to see everyone having some benefits within a few days even if they do have to pass through some discomfort. My legs were bothering me again last night but not as badly as before.

Since auto-immune issues seem to be directly related to energy production, our theory is that this ketogenic/protein reduction process can possibly correct such things from the foundation by providing the energy to the organs and systems that the body needs to do its own healing. How much leeway can then be allowed in the diet after correction will be the next step of the experiment. But we are weeks away from that at present. We need to first see if we can get efficient energy production back that will actually act on these conditions in a positive way.

Herr & Laura-

Thanks for your replies. I will stay the course with no grain/dairy and moderate carbs for several months before making the big switch. I must admit though that I do feel surprisingly better since eliminating the grain and dairy. Even at this early stage, I found out the hard way a couple days ago when I ate some fruit. It gave me a headache for almost 18 hours, so I won't be doing that again. It is amazing how the body adapts to simple changes in food.

 

[dant]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I am reading this thread (and reading LWB), but what
I am having a hard time figuring out is - which recipe
is recommended, how much in quantity, for Breakfast,
Lunch, Dinner, and do we need filtered water (X glass/day),
other, to ensure the proper K/P-Diet balance?

Is there a K/P-Diet recipe category that has Mon through
Sun K/P-Diet with other recipes that can be moved in/out
for variety? Could $ be made with a SOTT K/P-Diet book?

As for Fat/protein/carb K/P-Diet, there is a 3-4:1:1 ratio,
{fat, protein} = ?g/day, carb< = 37g/day

Scotty says: "[...]restored protein levels to 1.5 times
my weight in kg" What does this mean, exactly? Is this
Body Mass (Index?) or what is consumed, daily?

Perhaps this is all detailed already in the LWB thread
and I will need to finish reading all the threads as I
haven't gone through it all yet... and I am taking
notes, so it's going take some time to complete.

Edit: Changed Pdiet -> K/P-Diet (Ketosis/Paleo-Diet)

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I am reading this thread (and reading LWB), but what
I am having a hard time figuring out is - which recipe
is recommended, how much in quantity, for Breakfast,
Lunch, Dinner, and do we need filtered water (X glass/day),
other, to ensure the proper K/P-Diet balance?

Others may feel differently but I think it really depends on the individual and where their at. If they're just starting out, they may want to focus on removing dairy and gluten first and then slowly work towards getting rid of other foods (soy, corn, sugar). Then lessen the amount of and types of carbs and increase protein and fat intake. When the carb intake is sufficiently lowered, at that point you can begin to focus on getting rid of carbs altogether and see how your body feels with just protein and fat.

As you continue reading the LWB thread, you'll see how this process took place amongst others and hopefully that should give you a good guide in terms of where, how and why to implement certain changes. Hope that helps.

 

[Scottie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Also, like Scott, I've been eating too much fat, resulting in loose stools. I was already noticing nausea after each meal, so I'm going to be more easy on that.

Well, I wonder about the amount of fat required, and how it might vary from person to person.

If you are already on the Paleo diet and getting less than 60g of carbs a day, then I think that would mean you are probably at least in mild ketosis, which means your body is already burning fat.

So, maybe for some people, they need a LOT of extra fat when they go full-keto, for whatever reason.

But for others, maybe NO extra fat is required, or just a little more than usual. Along with no carbs, you just reduce protein and and you're off and running.

I will note that today, I ate more fat. I was actually REALLY hungry at lunch time (which is not normal), so I had a nice bowl of yummy bone broth. I instantly felt better. I also ate dinner with another bowl of broth.

Who knows what will happen tomorrow!

 

[Muxel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

"Master when will buckets of chicken skin arrive at my door? ... When you want them as much as your next breath of air."


Do you guys use the nutritional value, or the weight of the food itself?
Example,
90 g protein = 375 g chicken breast (from nutrition data)
or
90 g protein = 90 g chicken breast (wet weight)


The only way I could do four times more fat is if it were extremely tasty...

Scotty says: "[...]restored protein levels to 1.5 times
my weight in kg" What does this mean, exactly? Is this
Body Mass (Index?) or what is consumed, daily?

Neither, I think. Just your body weight.