Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Mainly I am dealing with lack of sleep and an increased heartbeat. With sleep, I've only been able to sleep for 3 or 4 hours before I wake up wide awake and it usually takes at least an hour to fall back asleep. I'm not tired when I wake up, actually I'm rather alert. Sometimes I can fall back asleep but it's usually for an hour or two and then I'm awake again and even then it's not really a deep sleep. My deepest sleep is right when I fall asleep for about 3 hours and in the early mornings if I can fall back asleep. I'm really trying to figure out the increased heart rate, it's making me feel a little over-excited, almost like I've drank coffee.

I would take 4 or 5 magnesium malate and a potassium iodide before bed.

Maybe that's just the extra energy from going mostly 0 carbs. I did re-introduce onions first after a week and a half at 0 carb and then mushrooms yesterday but it didn't seem to help with restlessness at night. Taking magnesium twice a day, Vitamin C throughout the day with water and GABA with B6 at night along with melatonin but I'm still waking up wide awake like my body doesn't need any more sleep than a few hours.

I wouldn't take magnesium through the day, rather I would take it before bed with the potassium. You can skip the Vitamin C since you probably don't need it unless sick. Right now, on zero carbs (mainly) you might want to leave off the GABA and B6 and see how it goes with the mag and pot. at night.

Not sure if upping carbs would make a difference there, but I do have the onions and mushrooms which upped it a little but didn't really change how I felt, although I was happy I didn't have any reaction to either since I love them both. But mainly am wondering about the heart rate being higher than normal, it's darn near pounding out of my chest at times.

I would ditch the carbs entirely for about 6 weeks.

 

[Beau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've also had this for some time and have tried a number of things, but still have no idea what the cause is. My resting pulse rate is around 80 bpm, which feels high to me, but my blood pressure is somewhere between 100-110 over ~60.

Right now my next test is to start exercising as my days are quite sedentary and so I'm thinking that may be the cause. I just got a kettlebell (anyone looking for kettlebells in the US: check ebay--they had the cheapest I could find) and after recovering from a hike I did a couple of days ago, I'm going to start the exercises and see how it affects my heart rate.

I'm pretty sure I also still have some adrenal issues, so my heart problem could be different from yours.

I also plan to start some exercises soon. There's a YMCA near by so I hope to be able to play some basketball during the day and then do some mild weight lifting after. I also have been rather sedentary lately, so maybe some exercises will help alleviate the increased heart rate. It's been too hot to do anything outside here unfortunately, but fall is closing so that will hopefully change soon. I'll check online for the kettlebells too, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Beau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I would take 4 or 5 magnesium malate and a potassium iodide before bed.

OK, I was taking 2 mag malates before bed and one in the day on as much of an empty stomach as I could muster. It doesn't feel empty until I'm starving.

I wouldn't take magnesium through the day, rather I would take it before bed with the potassium. You can skip the Vitamin C since you probably don't need it unless sick. Right now, on zero carbs (mainly) you might want to leave off the GABA and B6 and see how it goes with the mag and pot. at night.

Sounds good, I will start with this regimen and see how things go.

I would ditch the carbs entirely for about 6 weeks.

OK, so lack of carbs clearly wasn't an issue. I will go back on no carbs and do the supplement routine nightly and report back on progress. Thanks for the help.

 

[Alana]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I still can't quite get my head around the fat issue ...

From what I have learned so far, when you reduce the amount of carbs and protein sufficiently you go into ketosis. While in ketosis fat can be mobilized from fat stores, because insulin is down-regulated. So the body will cover the amount of energy it needs to function from the fat stores. The amount of fat ingested is added to the mix and then constitutes the "total amount" available to the body for energy/ other purposes.

That all means for me that the 3:1 fat ratio is used as a guideline for people who don't want to lose weight. If you want to lose weight, you reduce your fat intake, if you want to increase your weight, you increase your fat intake.

I know this sounds a bit mechanistic and simplified, but to my current understanding this is the gist of it.

Or not ... ?

I think you may be right. My formula may be for those who do not want to lose any weight. And, as Dugdeep has pointed out, I can probably have a bit more meat than I calculated here at my desk without referring to the charts. We have a couple carb counter books and a huge scientific printout that tells us everything that practically every know food contains by weight.

So I guess that folks like me with some extra fat have to tough it out, just get enough protein and SOME fat and let the body take the rest from its stores.

The skinnies, on the other hand, probably really need to carefully get their daily allotment of fat.

This has been my experience as well, as a skinny. I decided to reduce my protein intake and up my fat, along with resistance exercise before I started the IF, and so far I gained about 2 kilos in a week! :D I am very excited about that, because I was a bit apprehensive about it at first, but it was the broth that did it I think. I've been drinking a cup of very fatty broth for the past week. My ketostix though still shows pink, so I could use more fats. I started adding butter in my tea again, so we'll see. Every other day I also do the kettle-ball exercises for about 10-15 minutes. Yesterday was kettle-ball day, but I cleaned the house, which was a 5 hours exercise in total and included lifting and currying heavy stuff, so that should do it

Another benefit so far (this is for women) is that for the first time in my life, not only did I not have ANY PMS symptoms (usually I get swelling and light cramps a week before my period starts), but also my period started and I have 0 cramps, which is SO good!! During the first and second day, I always suffer from bad cramps. Now, nothing, only a headache. :D

I was going to write about the same thing! In the middle of cleaning the house yesterday I got my period and I had about 2 minutes of cramps (I usually have them for a day, before going low carbs, it was 2 days and couldn't sleep the first night!) but I continued with my tasks at hand and when I was done, I just felt weakness in my legs and lower back. I had a cold shower (not freezing cold, but enough to take my breath away) lied in bed for about half an hour and then went to teach a 2-hour class, feeling as fresh as if I woke up from a long sleep. I was driving back from class at about 9 pm and I felt happy, I was singing in my car (which I haven't done in a while). All in all, more fat, lower protein, cold showers and exercise is doing it for me, so I am going to continue like this for about a week, and then add IF. I am so excited about it all!

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I also plan to start some exercises soon. There's a YMCA near by so I hope to be able to play some basketball during the day and then do some mild weight lifting after. I also have been rather sedentary lately, so maybe some exercises will help alleviate the increased heart rate. It's been too hot to do anything outside here unfortunately, but fall is closing so that will hopefully change soon. I'll check online for the kettlebells too, thanks for the heads up.

No, no, no. Do the resistance exercise as Gedgaudas describes it - that is, lifting weights, etc., one minute full-bore on, two minutes off. Move to the next muscle group/weight machine/whatever, one minute full-bore on, two minutes off, until you have made the circuit.

Every other day. You don't need the basketball/aerobic exercise yet. Maybe later, for fun, but it won't do anything toward healing mtDNA issues.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I down-loaded this a while ago. I think the link was given in the Life Without Bread thread. It's helped me to figure out the protein/fat ratio in meats. (It has protein, fat and calories for most meat cuts (and other foods) along with the carbs and fiber.)

http://www.atkins.com/Program/Carb-Counter.aspx

Don't know if you have seen this yet so thought I put it in here.

Thank you Nienna Eluch for this link very usefull!

After 10 days of fasting, slowly in the first days, I now wake-up in the morning earlier than usual without feeling tired as I could do some weeks ago.

[...]

Before starting KD and fasting my weight was already enough low: 48kg. After these ten days, I lost 800g. It is not alarming for now, and maybe I can consider at the light of researchs made here, that it could be enough good after all.

So I continue the KD with a little bit more fat. I usually take some fish-oil in the morning and will continue while I also took note about the complements. I gonna stop them for a while and see what is happening. I will report in some days to let you know the results.

I feel better than all these previous decades, from I was a teenager. Actually, my body today looks the same than I had as a teenager, before to be pregnant the first time I was. My muscles are visible again, without making special exercices while I started to do some these last days, with barbells.

Well, you probably weren't in such a bad shap to start with. But 10 days weren't necessary, and could actually cause harm to some people with more delicate conditions.

I suggest you re-read the following post by Laura(http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28799.msg361611.html#msg361611):

Odyssey, I guess you aren't really understanding that this is not supposed to be full bore fasting, but just maybe 48 hours at most to get the ketosis going and keep it going WHILE EATING but restricting protein so that it won't be converted to glucose. Full fasting only turns your body's "conserve" thing on, it doesn't necessrily do that much good to persist.

And the Intermittent Fasting can be as simple as just cutting way back on your consumption on those days, not fasting entirely!

Ya'll please read stuff carefully before experimenting. No reason to be more uncomfortable than need be! Try the slow and easy way first, it usually works. Most people here in the house have gone into ketosis (from the paleo diet) after just 18 hours of fasting or so. That's like, not eating after 5 pm on one day, going through the night and then being able to start with fatty bone broth at noon the next day. That's not so hard! And it seems that getting something fatty in there when you are on the edge of ketosis helps it along!

At first, thank you Ailén for answering. And apologizes if I was not enough clear, but and if I understand well your answer (correct me if I am wrong, language barrier), I had to let understand I had no food during ten days... It is not exact and again I am sorry for missunderstanding.

I had NO fasting during ten days (God!), but I started an alternative fasting ten days ago. A little one because I do not need to loss weight (I know, I repeat... ;) , so I ate each morning lard and coconut oil, and on the evening (end of the afternoon each time it is possible...) as previously explained:

I eat fat porc on the morning (lard essentially) with a piece of bacon both cooked in the coconut oil.
During the first days, I also ate a little piece of lard and a bone broth on the evening...

Or a piece of lard cooked in my bone broth than just return income in the poele on the following morning with coconut oil. Delicious. I take my breakfast at 8:00 am and drink my bone broth around 18:00 pm. And one day on two, I also eat piece of lard again on the evening.
I do not eat any carb except fifteen units of blueberries with one spoon of soup of coconut milk on my breakfast and two or three times by week some leafs of salad on the evening. That's all. I have to try in the next days to drink a bone broth on the morning (which I make with bones, some fat of duck and some lard oil, salt, pepper). I am waiting for the back from holidays of my butcher to buy some pork liver.

By reading again the link to Laura's post (thank you to point it to me again), I guess than 10 hours are not sufficient between the two "meals" to the KD fasting be effective. So, and to be clear (I hope so), shoud I, for example, not take a breakfast on tomorrow morning (or one the next day) until a bone broth at 12.00 pm? Which would make approximatively 18 hours between the two meals... as Laura said.

Thank you by the way, Ailén for your help and time...

Edit: Spelling
Edit2: Spelling on 'speeling'

 

[Beau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

No, no, no. Do the resistance exercise as Gedgaudas describes it - that is, lifting weights, etc., one minute full-bore on, two minutes off. Move to the next muscle group/weight machine/whatever, one minute full-bore on, two minutes off, until you have made the circuit.

Every other day. You don't need the basketball/aerobic exercise yet. Maybe later, for fun, but it won't do anything toward healing mtDNA issues.

Gotcha, will skip the aerobic stuff for now and focus on resistance exercises.

 

[hesperides]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I put few drops of lemon and fresh mint leaves in my fatty broth to soften somewhat the disgusting oily overdose sensation. Works fine for me. Also, glutamine helped me beyond anything in maintaining the feeling of satiety, particularly during the first IF diet days.

I slowly started with the new IF diet experiment and feel more alert and strenghtful since I cut protein/vegetables intake and increased fat consumption, mainly drinking broth. Will see where it leads with my arthrosis issue as I still can´t say I´ve experienced any improvement though since I started the KD last September. Or rather, it greatly improved until last February and then I entered in menopause and was flabbergasted with the sudden change occurring in my whole body with all its typical symptoms plus the arthrosis spreading in several areas, where it´s now firmly installed in spite of my intents to correct it through EE (the best helper!), DMSO, potent infrared lamp, magnetic application and other mixed supp for this kind of disease. I hoped this would not happen or at least not at such an invasive level as I was already following LWB diet since Feb. 2010. My guess why this happened is I never really could recover completely from the heat wave shock I got back in 2003, which led me into a kind of survival mode of fight or fly that I didn´t manage to cope with, even many years later. Actually, I still need all the will I have at my disposal to not let the tension that builds behind my eyes when closed distracting the sleeping process when going to bed. I know how crucial this forefront area is as it regulates focus ability, decisions making amongst other things and reading The Unspoken Voice confirmed my suspicions of what it was all about, but it was a fine relief getting a feedback in plain letters in such an explicit way.

Now I think that maybe this IF diet could help stabilize hormones and will report again after a while and I also want to thank you all guys for your great comments in this amazing thread, since I haven´t post a lot here.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

hesperides, how many veggies do you eat? How often? What kind? I found that giving them up really helped my rheumatoid arthritis. And if I eat a few a couple days in a row, it flares back up.

 

[QuantumLogic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Here is the worksheet I've made. It isn't pretty, but it works, and can be printed out. You can input your weight, desired number of calories per day, and number of meal per day. We have all been talking about the vast differences in experiences between heavier vs. skinny people. When you plug in various weights, number of meals per day, and desired calories, it becomes very clear that depending on these factors vastly different approaches are required. Hope this helps some of those who were having trouble doing the calculations.

The attachment is a zip file with two versions of the sheet- one for OpenOffice, which is a free program at openoffice.org, and the other for Microsoft Office Excel. If anyone has any suggestions to improve the worksheets, by all means let me know.

 

[shijing]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I wanted to give a report on my own experience with the ketogenic diet so far. I started nearly two weeks ago going completely carb-free, but deviated from that twice when I tried out a couple of dessert recipes from a ketogenic diet book that I have (one for ‘muffins’ which use equal amounts of butter, eggs, and peanut butter, and the other for ice cream which uses butter for the base, baking chocolate, stevia, and berries). I cut the amount of peanut butter/berries in the recipes by half, but if/when I do the ice cream again I’m going to leave the berries out completely.

I’ve been looking for ways to increase my fat ratio – I tried the liver pate recipe for the first time this week, and it’s amazing. It tastes really good, and when you get the fat content high enough you don’t need to eat large quantities in one sitting and it lasts for quite awhile. I asked at the store where I usually buy my meat about fat, and found out that if I call ahead of time, they can save untrimmed pieces of meat for me (and may be able to get me excess fat trimmings as well), so I’m going to try that for the first time this week. I’ve also started making broth to supplement my fat intake, but I have the same problem that others have reported about feeling nauseous when I take in too much at once, so I’m experimenting with ratio/frequency when I drink it.

In regard to IF, I’m currently at the point where I’m going a couple days a week eating only breakfast and fasting the rest of the day. I do this on days when I have to be out of the house most of the day, which helps, and the only difference is that before I would come home and eat at the end of the day, but now I’m just skipping that until the next morning.

As far as exercise goes, I don’t currently have access to any machines, so I’ve been doing push-ups and sit-ups and using makeshift weights for lifting until I can find something more substantial. I’ve noticed that while I’ve lost overall bodyweight in the past several months, I seem to put on muscle-mass more quickly than I did in the past.

Overall, my energy levels have increased and I feel like I’m able to get more done in a shorter period of time. I haven’t experienced anything like leg pains, but I know that I’ve still got a ways to go before I’m actually getting the appropriate fat to protein ratio, and that’s what I’ll be working on.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

For those wanting to do IF, what Shijing describes is actually perfect and a sort of natural rhythm. Eat breakfast and then go without until the next day and eat normally.

But shame on you for the peanut butter! Evil stuff! (I was addicted once.)

 

[shijing]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

But shame on you for the peanut butter! Evil stuff! (I was addicted once.)

Consider it nixed :)

 

[dant]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, peaNUT is not a nut, but a legume! Diabolical!

I was really surprised when I found this out
while checking the topic of legumes and grains.

osit.

 

[Ennio]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I started this protocol several days ago as well, and since I was basically on the paleo diet for the last year it only took 27 hours of IF before the ketostix showed I was in full ketosis. One of the first things I needed to get used to was the idea that I did not have to have a large amount of protein for lunch or dinner to feel like I had eaten enough - just enough fat. Like others here, this was helped after feeling full from just a decent serving of bone broth that included bits of fat in it or liver pate mixed with lard and just a moderate amount of protein (usually from a smallish pork chop).

During the first few days I was eating too much fat which usually resulted in very loose stools or diarrhea, but after reducing the fat intake somewhat - and getting used to how much less food I actually required, things have seemed to stabilize. There was even one evening when I had nothing for dinner and didn't miss the meal. The following morning I ate a breakfast of one sausage patty, two eggs, and five or six slices of bacon and noticed that I wasn't ravenous for it either.

The first full day and even a few days after the IF were somewhat difficult. As has been mentioned by others, I experienced a general achiness like a low level flu. A few days later I was generally feeling ok though. As an aside, I just wanted to note that I've been getting between 8-8&1/2 hours of sleep per night lately; an hour more than what I usually average, so I think the extra rest has helped my body to process the changes. Or so I think.

Since beginning I've had two short but intense resistance workouts. The plan is to do them every other day as has been recommended and written about. Its been a number of years since I've worked out in this way and it's always been the same: a bit of hemming and hawing till I get myself in the exercise room and then just really going for it - and being glad I did once I start.

I am also a pretty skinny person and don't want to lose weight, so I look forward to seeing if my weight can bounce back a bit after a few months of this. But even if it doesn't, the potential benefits of this diet seem to far outweigh any perception I have of myself as 'too skinny'. Another thing is, I've noticed while working out with another 'skinny' who's already disciplined about exercising (and been on the paleo diet) that he's surprisingly fit, strong and able to press good amounts of weight; so this part of the protocol will be an added benefit to the process of healing mtDNA.