Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

As a freshly deprogrammed vegetarian/sometimes vegan after twelve years, thanks to this forum and The Vegetarian Myth, I came straight to the Ketogenic Diet. I've had no carbs for 48 hours. I ate organic eggs, sardines and salmon the first day, and organic eggs, sardines, organic chicken and bone broth the second. Tell a lie, I have been sipping pomegranate juice, so there's a bit of carb.

I am wired.

My resting heart rate is also up, from 60 to80. I feel fine though. In fact I feel steady and 'present'

The thing is I'm only on page 12 of this thread and while I will read the entire thread over time, i could do with knowing the basic findings in terms of the Ketogenic Diet. Is there somewhere I can go within the thread, or elsewhere, that summarises the foods and quantities required for optimal results? For example I understand that fat to protein should be 4:1, and protein consumed should be 1.5 x body weight in KG. At least I think that's right. But it would be good to know what I'm doing now as I've dived straight in to it.

Any clarification would be welcome. Thanks.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Vic said:
As a freshly deprogrammed vegetarian/sometimes vegan after twelve years, thanks to this forum and The Vegetarian Myth, I came straight to the Ketogenic Diet. I've had no carbs for 48 hours. I ate organic eggs, sardines and salmon the first day, and organic eggs, sardines, organic chicken and bone broth the second. Tell a lie, I have been sipping pomegranate juice, so there's a bit of carb.

I am wired.

My resting heart rate is also up, from 60 to80. I feel fine though. In fact I feel steady and 'present'

The thing is I'm only on page 12 of this thread and while I will read the entire thread over time, i could do with knowing the basic findings in terms of the Ketogenic Diet. Is there somewhere I can go within the thread, or elsewhere, that summarizes the foods and quantities required for optimal results? For example I understand that fat to protein should be 4:1, and protein consumed should be 1.5 x body weight in KG. At least I think that's right. But it would be good to know what I'm doing now as I've dived straight in to it.

Any clarification would be welcome. Thanks.
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Hello Vic!

It is not advisable to start right up without getting to know the details. Your reading of this thread and at your pace is good enough. In fact, we recommend people to read Life Without Bread first because all the details about the diet and its transition to a ketogenic diet is explained there. I would take it easy and enjoy the changes. But easy and steady does it. Our bodies metabolism need some time adjusting to the new diet, especially if you've been vegetarian for many years ;)
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Vic said:
As a freshly deprogrammed vegetarian/sometimes vegan after twelve years, thanks to this forum and The Vegetarian Myth, I came straight to the Ketogenic Diet. I've had no carbs for 48 hours. I ate organic eggs, sardines and salmon the first day, and organic eggs, sardines, organic chicken and bone broth the second. Tell a lie, I have been sipping pomegranate juice, so there's a bit of carb.

I am wired.

My resting heart rate is also up, from 60 to80. I feel fine though. In fact I feel steady and 'present'

The thing is I'm only on page 12 of this thread and while I will read the entire thread over time, i could do with knowing the basic findings in terms of the Ketogenic Diet. Is there somewhere I can go within the thread, or elsewhere, that summarises the foods and quantities required for optimal results? For example I understand that fat to protein should be 4:1, and protein consumed should be 1.5 x body weight in KG. At least I think that's right. But it would be good to know what I'm doing now as I've dived straight in to it.

Any clarification would be welcome. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Vic, the only summary I can give is "DON'T GO TOO FAST", and I think you may be doing exactly that. Going straight to zero carb after 12 years of Veggies is very reckless, so please be careful and listen to your body for signs. A 20bpm heart-rate increase is just such a sign, and could be the first of small red flags. This may sound over-cautious, but people have done themselves damage by switching straight onto this diet without adequate knowledge.

Which leads me onto another thing. By living just on eggs, fish, and chicken, you are most likely not getting enough fat, particularly saturated fat, which can spell disaster on this diet. If you are not already doing, I'd recommend supplementing the broth with a whole lot of butter/lard.
But ideally, you might be better off re-raising the carbs a bit, through whatever sources your body can tolerate.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Vic, I replied to you in The Vegetarian Myth thread, before I saw your post here. Please take what's been said seriously, as making such drastic changes so quickly is NOT the way to go.

I also agree with Carlisle, you're probably not getting enough saturated fat from that list. But the important thing is to read LWB and this thread in their entirety. And when you know more of the details and possible problems/issues you might face, etc. and then start slowly the transition, you eventually have to get enough saturated fat to replace the carbs (and will also "protect"/stabilize the polyunsaturated fats in your diet).
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi Vic,

I'll add to the 'go slowly' chorus. As you make your way through those two threads, you'll meet more than one tale of woe from rushing dietary changes faster than the body was able to accommodate . As mentioned, you will need to gradually up your fat intake to make up for the missing carbs, and after so many years of veggies, you'll have to make friends with your gall bladder in order to do that. If you've been doing the low-fat thing for a long time, it may not work all that well for a while. Lierre recommended coconut oil as a good transition fat. It's got lots of good medium-chain fatty acids, plus it's a little lighter than going straight to animal fats. Fwiw, I did lots of milk thistle, PC (phosphatidylcholine) and coffee enemas for at least six or seven months to stimulate its activity. When I first started this diet, I could barely stand a couple of tablespoons of olive oil. Now I slurp up all the lard left from the morning bacon and eggs, and slug down a chunk of butter with bone broth when feeling peckish in the afternoon!

Fat is magical stuff, but only if you are able to utilize it. :halo:
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Typical me, rushing in where angels fear...well, you know the rest.

Message understood. I'll ease back.

What's LWB?

Thanks all.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Vic said:
Typical me, rushing in where angels fear...well, you know the rest.

Message understood. I'll ease back.

What's LWB?

Thanks all.
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Life Without Bread.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Duh! I actually realised what LWB is seconds after I turned the computer off.

I've had some carbs today as well as animal fats. I'll prepare properly for the KD while I make my way through the thread.

Thanks again to all for advice.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Vic said:
Duh! I actually realised what LWB is seconds after I turned the computer off.

I've had some carbs today as well as animal fats. I'll prepare properly for the KD while I make my way through the thread.

Thanks again to all for advice.
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Yes, and before you end up moving to a strict KD, you will probably want to read Primal Body Primal Mind for some good metabolic info and tips on how to deal with transition symptoms (although much of this is in the KD thread).
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

herondancer said:
Now I slurp up all the lard left from the morning bacon and eggs, and slug down a chunk of butter with bone broth when feeling peckish in the afternoon!

Fat is magical stuff, but only if you are able to utilize it. :halo:
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LOL...

For the past year morning breakfast has been eaten out of a bowl with a spoon. Not because of coordination issues but eating the bacon and egg breakfast with so much fat cooked in makes it like a stew.

I had a few drinks Sat and was a bit concerned about the next day. Eating 8 strips of bacon diced and cooked in 2 tablespoons of ghee seemed to make things right, in a hurry, in the morning. Nothing like a grease breakfast the morning after.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

LQB said:
Vic said:
Duh! I actually realised what LWB is seconds after I turned the computer off.

I've had some carbs today as well as animal fats. I'll prepare properly for the KD while I make my way through the thread.

Thanks again to all for advice.
Click to expand...

Yes, and before you end up moving to a strict KD, you will probably want to read Primal Body Primal Mind for some good metabolic info and tips on how to deal with transition symptoms (although much of this is in the KD thread).
Click to expand...

Thanks LQB. LWB ordered, PBPM on my iPhone.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Vic, I just want to point out that there's a "sticky" (meaning it stays at the top of the Diet and Health board so it's easy to find) thread "Life Without Bread" ( http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,22916.0.html )also. I'm not sure if that was clear to you the way it was written. It's very long but much of the transition from grain/dairy free to keto started in that thread, and so has a lot of helpful info. Not just the science, etc., but personal experiences by forum members going through the transition/adaptation and what kinds of issues came up for different people, and how they dealt with it and so on.

And then, as more people got into more seriously into the ketogenic diet experiment, this thread was started and continues with these types of info. So take your time and read through these two threads. Make the transition very slowly. The important thing is to get grain and dairy free as soon as you can. If you need "non-gluten pseudo grains" such as buckwheat to make the transition to totally grain-free, you can go that route until you can eliminate those too. Making very drastic changes in diet, especially going from a vegetarian diet for over a decade to ketogenic can cause some major problems.

The transition from sugar burning to fat/ketone burning metabolism can be the trickiest part, especially if you have sluggish liver and other issues, so even though you got the message to go slow and get up to speed on the knowledge and experiences, I'm trying to give you the idea that it's really worth doing a large amounts of reading to make the transitions safe and with the least problems. There's also lots of info on supplements to help the transition in these threads (and the books recommended in them).
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yes, the keto thread spun off from the LWB thread. These experiments have been going on as a group since 2008 and many of the experimenters contributed info from their own private dietary experimentation in prior years.

The main thing we learned was: take the transition slowly!!! The early ones of us did that naturally as we learned this or that. Some who came along after wanted the "bottom line" from the experimenters so they could just jump the gun, so to say. A number of them paid with bad experiences and had to back up and regroup.

We urge everyone to read several books, read the threads so you can see where one or another person had an issue, it was discussed, more research, solutions found, etc.

Yes, a few of the younger peeps have been able to just jump into it and do fine, but most of the older folks or people with "conditions" that they have been trying to deal with all their lives, need to take it more slowly. Plus, every body is unique and you have to find out the genetic and other parameters of yours.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I would urge anyone going through those threads to take notes. There is a flood of information and the really important stuff doesn't necessarily stand out, no matter how much text emphasis. IE something critical such as "drink saltwater" might not stick after so many pages...
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Rhythmik said:
...Is there an optimal/average/minimum blood ketone range to achieve to reap the benefits, or is that more of an individual measurement?
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I think it is individual. Some, myself included, seem to run into a "ketone wall," and that may have to do with glucose/insulin/glucagon regulatory dysfunction, though I couldn't say for sure. There are some happy campers out there with levels around 4.0 mmol/L, but there is consensus among a number of researchers that you can be happy with anything from 0.5 up. Somewhere above 4.0 - 5.0 on up to 7.0 is usually classified as "starvation ketosis," and I have seem some indications that above 4.0 may not be better, at least for some people. (These numbers are all serum BOHB levels, not urinary AA levels, by the way.)
 
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