Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[beetlemaniac]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm at my parents place for the weekend right now, and I've been pigging out on almond flour cake, nuts and dried cranberries. My sweet tooth is a real weakness . I've been feeling this bloating and carb craving that's hard to resist since I started eating this food. I'm sensitive to carbs -- I don't think the occasional dessert is bad, but when carbs are available copiously, and in a setting that promotes over-eating (it was a problem during my younger years), killing the little self-control that I have -- it can be a terrible set up.

We have this traditional Indian preparation made from black seed (nigella sativa) boiled in water, which helps with digestive discomfort. I'm taking it to help with my bloating.

When I'm back at my place the routine encourages me to go back to my usual staples of broth, eggs and bacon and fat (lard, coconut & olive oil and recently, butter which has tested ok again). I can attest to the exercise being beneficial. An interesting thing is that after exercise, my glucose level has risen from ~3 mmol/L to ~5 mmol/L. Probably the liver is releasing it's glycogen stores.

 

[Ennio]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've recently been zero carbs for the last three weeks which includes only eating meat (Pork, eggs & Beef), fat (ghee, butter, lard, beef fat) salt and bone broth.

Looks like you are off to a great re-start, IMO. I think you need to acknowledge this for yourself and think about what comes next as 'fine-tuning'.

But before that I did have a tendency to binge on dark chocolate and cashews as well as drank alcohol a few times, gin and wine. One of the drives for going zero carb again was the fact that I sort of fell off the wagon and dipped in and out of ketosis several times because I ate or drank too many carbs or proteins in a single sitting. The last date for this was August 24th where I indulged in too much wine at a Birthday Party.

The longer you remain without cashews, alcohol etc., the less and less you will feel the urgings to have it. At least that has been my experience. I think it's just helpful to remember that every time you are faced with the choice to have it, or not have it, is an important opportunity to strengthen the will to become super-optimized physiologically, with all that that entails. This is from someone who absolutely loves cashews and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, or used to, btw.

Usually, the first week of zero carb is fine, but I have noticed that after a few weeks of that I'm not doing so well. My energy levels are fluctuating daily, with major dips in the early afternoon as well as the early evening. These are usually accompanied by dissociation and depression which picks up at different times. I sometimes get diarrhea, although this mainly seems to happen when I have butter and eggs which is preceded by gurgling.

I think that our energy levels and mood will fluctuate regardless since there are so many variables that have an influence on us. So it may not have to do with the diet per se. At the same time, it could just be the carb monster in your brain hemming and hawing about being deprived of it's food. What else is new?

As for the diarrhea, it may be that you are just taking in more fat than your body can assimilate at the moment. This happened at the beginning for me so I think it's good to pay attention to how much fat you are eating and maybe scale back a bit and see how you are doing. It may also be that it's not really diarrhea you have, but, considering how much softer it is relative to what you are used to just seems like it is?

Today I finally had some carbs, giving that wolf a piece of meat in the form of home made dark chocolate and feel satiated by it, but felt a craving for something sweet beforehand. My system is very sensitive but I have noticed, and this is the 2nd time going zero carb for an extended period of time that I don't feel all there in the second week of zero carb. My weight is fine this time around, I am steady and eat roughly 3-4oz of protein per meal. All of my sources of food are either organic or pasture-raised so I am wondering what the issue is. Inflammation, gut and bacteria changes, maybe even emotional stuff coming to the surface that is being brought on by zero carbs.

I also do, occasionally, have xylitol-sweetened homemade chocolate, but only occasionally. Other than that and the garlic and onion I use in bone broth I am zero carb and have been for well over a year. I dunno, I kind of like the diet - or have developed or tricked my mind into liking it - take your pick. Since I do ok with butter (but also like lard and tallow) I like to have it with my beef burgers or sausage patties with lunch; meat-flavored ice cream! I know it sounds corny but you can remind yourself of how utterly delicious it all is at every meal, and that it is SO delicious and wonderful and beneficial that it is really, mainly, all you need - as a way of talking yourself into it.

Is it ideal to go and stay zero carb for long periods of time or am I doing harm to myself because of it. I am curious what are peoples experiences with zero carbs for long periods of time. I still have more to read before I finally catch up with this thread but I was getting the impression that carbs in any form are unnecessary although I have been getting feedback that some folks aren't doing well when carbs are cut out completely. I am thinking I will buy some veggies again for the first time in a while and see what effect that has, if any.

You can introduce some of the better carb options that have been mentioned here, or, you can continue to do what you are doing and add some other non-diet practices to your regimen. As Oxajil suggested, exercise is a really good one. It will not only help with the growth and repair of mtDNA but will elevate your mood. You don't have to go all out with it either. A half hour of intense exercise a few times a week can make a big difference.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Interesting article ...

Meat intake and cause-specific mortality: a pooled analysis of Asian prospective cohort studies

Am J Clin Nutr October 2013 vol. 98 no. 4 1032-1041

Jung Eun Lee, Dale F McLerran, Betsy Rolland, Yu Chen, Eric J Grant, Rajesh Vedanthan, Manami Inoue, Shoichiro Tsugane, Yu-Tang Gao, Ichiro Tsuji, Masako Kakizaki, Habibul Ahsan, Yoon-Ok Ahn, Wen-Harn Pan, Kotaro Ozasa, Keun-Young Yoo, Shizuka Sasazuki, Gong Yang, Takashi Watanabe, Yumi Sugawara, Faruque Parvez, Dong-Hyun Kim, Shao-Yuan Chuang, Waka Ohishi, Sue K Park, Ziding Feng, Mark Thornquist, Paolo Boffetta, Wei Zheng, Daehee Kang, John Potter, and Rashmi Sinha

1From the Department of Food and Nutrition, Sookmyung Women's University, Seoul, South Korea (JEL); the Division of Public Health Sciences, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, Seattle, WA (DFM, BR, RV, MT, and JP); the Department of Environmental Medicine, New York University School of Medicine, New York, NY (YC); the Department of Epidemiology, Radiation Effects Research Foundation, Hiroshima, Japan (EJG and KO); the Epidemiology and Prevention Division, Research Center for Cancer Prevention and Screening, National Cancer Center, Tokyo, Japan (MI, ST, and SS); the Department of Epidemiology, Shanghai Cancer Institute, Shanghai, China (Y-TG); the Division of Epidemiology, Department of Public Health and Forensic Medicine, Tohoku University Graduate School of Medicine, Miyagi, Japan (IT, MK, TW, and YS); the Departments of Health Studies, Medicine, and Human Genetics, Comprehensive Cancer Center, The University of Chicago, Chicago, IL (HA); the Department of Preventive Medicine, Seoul National University College of Medicine, Seoul, South Korea (Y-OA, K-YY, SKP, and DK); the Division of Preventive Medicine and Health Services Research, Institute of Population Health Sciences, National Health Research Institutes, Miaoli, Taiwan (W-HP and S-YC); Institute of Biomedical Sciences, Academia Sinica, Taipei, Taiwan (W-HP); Graduate Institute of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine, College of Public Health, National Taiwan University, Taipei, Taiwan (W-HP); the Division of Epidemiology, Department of Medicine, Vanderbilt Epidemiology Center, Vanderbilt-Ingram Cancer Center, Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, Nashville, TN (GY and WZ); the Division of Epidemiology, Department of Public Health and Forensic Medicine, Tohoku University Graduate School of Medicine, Miyagi, Japan (TW and YS); the Department of Environmental Health Sciences, Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, New York, NY (FP); the Department of Social and Preventive Medicine, Hallym University College of Medicine, Chuncheon, South Korea (D-HK); the Department of Clinical Studies, Radiation Effects Research Foundation, Hiroshima, Japan (WO); the Section of Early Cancer Detection and Biomarkers, The University of Texas, MD Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, TX (ZF); The Tisch Cancer Institute and Institute for Translational Epidemiology, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York, NY (PB); the Centre for Public Health Research, Massey University, Wellington, New Zealand (JP); and the Division of Cancer Epidemiology and Genetics, National Cancer Institute, Bethesda, MD (RS).

↵2 Supported by the National Cancer Institute, NIH (intramural funding), and by the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. The cohorts participating in the pooled analysis were supported by the following grants: Japan Public Health Center–Based Study 1 and Japan Public Health Center–Based Study 2: National Cancer Center Research and Development Fund; Grant-in-Aid for Cancer Research; Grant for Health Services and Grant for Comprehensive Research on Cardiovascular and Life-Style Related Diseases from the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare, Japan; and Grant for the Scientific Research from the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, Japan. The Radiation Effects Research Foundation, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, is a private, nonprofit foundation funded by the Japanese Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare and the US Department of Energy. This publication was supported by RERF Research Protocol RP-A3-11; Shanghai Women's Health Study: NIH (R37CA70867); CardioVascular Disease risk FACtor Two-township Study: Department of Health, Taiwan (DOH80-27, DOH81-021, DOH8202-1027, DOH83-TD-015, and DOH84-TD-006); The Korea Multi-Center Cancer Cohort: Ministry of Education, Science and Technology, Korea (2009-0087452); National Research Foundation of Korea (2009-0087452); Health Effects of Arsenic Longitudinal Study: NIH (P42ES010349, R01CA102484, and R01CA107431); Seoul Male Cohort: National Research Grant for Basic Medical Sciences, Korea and National Research Foundation of Korea, 1992-2011.

↵3 Address correspondence to R Sinha, NIH, National Cancer Institute, Division of Cancer Epidemiology and Genetics, 9609 Medical Center Drive, RM 6E336 MSC 9768, Bethesda, MD 20892. E-mail: sinhar@mail.nih.gov.

Abstract

Background: Total or red meat intake has been shown to be associated with a higher risk of mortality in Western populations, but little is known of the risks in Asian populations.

Objective: We examined temporal trends in meat consumption and associations between meat intake and all-cause and cause-specific mortality in Asia.

Design: We used ecological data from the United Nations to compare country-specific meat consumption. Separately, 8 Asian prospective cohort studies in Bangladesh, China, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan consisting of 112,310 men and 184,411 women were followed for 6.6 to 15.6 y with 24,283 all-cause, 9558 cancer, and 6373 cardiovascular disease (CVD) deaths. We estimated the study-specific HRs and 95% CIs by using a Cox regression model and pooled them by using a random-effects model.

Results: Red meat consumption was substantially lower in the Asian countries than in the United States. Fish and seafood consumption was higher in Japan and Korea than in the United States. Our pooled analysis found no association between intake of total meat (red meat, poultry, and fish/seafood) and risks of all-cause, CVD, or cancer mortality among men and women; HRs (95% CIs) for all-cause mortality from a comparison of the highest with the lowest quartile were 1.02 (0.91, 1.15) in men and 0.93 (0.86, 1.01) in women.

Conclusions: Ecological data indicate an increase in meat intake in Asian countries; however, our pooled analysis did not provide evidence of a higher risk of mortality for total meat intake and provided evidence of an inverse association with red meat, poultry, and fish/seafood. Red meat intake was inversely associated with CVD mortality in men and with cancer mortality in women in Asian countries.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This paper begins with what appears to be a false premise: "Total or red meat intake has been shown to be associated with a higher risk of mortality in Western populations."

There was a study recently (or maybe even two) that purported to show this association, but it was highly flawed. It was debunked so quickly and thoroughly that I never bothered to look at it. But it still stands as "proof" for those who want to believe it.

There's no surprise, then, that Asian populations would be "different."

 

[Goemon_]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I also do, occasionally, have xylitol-sweetened homemade chocolate, but only occasionally. Other than that and the garlic and onion I use in bone broth I am zero carb and have been for well over a year. I dunno, I kind of like the diet - or have developed or tricked my mind into liking it - take your pick. Since I do ok with butter (but also like lard and tallow) I like to have it with my beef burgers or sausage patties with lunch; meat-flavored ice cream! I know it sounds corny but you can remind yourself of how utterly delicious it all is at every meal, and that it is SO delicious and wonderful and beneficial that it is really, mainly, all you need - as a way of talking yourself into it.

Do you have a recipe ?

I hade too much blackberry ice scream recently and I am paying the price now.

 

[Tomek]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Do you have a recipe ?

I hade too much blackberry ice scream recently and I am paying the price now.

Ice creams are a big no-no for me, flares up eczema on my fingers and my feet every time I indulged myself for a cup.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If you just can't control it or there is some reason that you need to eat an ice cream to "appear ordinary", try to get a sorbet with NO milk products used in its making. Italian ices usually fit the bill and are scrumptious.

 

[Ennio]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I also do, occasionally, have xylitol-sweetened homemade chocolate, but only occasionally. Other than that and the garlic and onion I use in bone broth I am zero carb and have been for well over a year. I dunno, I kind of like the diet - or have developed or tricked my mind into liking it - take your pick. Since I do ok with butter (but also like lard and tallow) I like to have it with my beef burgers or sausage patties with lunch; meat-flavored ice cream! I know it sounds corny but you can remind yourself of how utterly delicious it all is at every meal, and that it is SO delicious and wonderful and beneficial that it is really, mainly, all you need - as a way of talking yourself into it.

Do you have a recipe ?

I hade too much blackberry ice scream recently and I am paying the price now.

I apologize for being unclear here. What I meant to convey was that the butter / lard / tallow - especially when eaten cold, with meat, is to my mind delicious - like meat flavored "ice cream". But not literally ice cream. Sorry for the confusion.

I don't recommend eating the heavy cream based ice cream for anyone doing the diet, btw. A few members have experimented with this that I am aware of and have had very upset stomachs as a direct result.

 

[JGeropoulas]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Do you have a recipe ?

I hade too much blackberry ice scream recently and I am paying the price now.

Ice creams are a big no-no for me, flares up eczema on my fingers and my feet every time I indulged myself for a cup.

Does the ice cream which causes your eczema to flare up contain milk products or is it made from other milks (e.g. rice, almond or coconut)?

 

[Turgon]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I would say ditch the butter for now. That can be inflammatory in a very sneaky way.

And I thought butter was supposed to make everything better. I will render the last of it into ghee so no more butter for a few months. The same with eggs.

In one way, the ketogenic diet can make me tired at times, but adding carbs is just something my body doesn't like at all, so I can't really go Paleo. I can have some cooked onions and garlic, but other than that, nothing else really. Green beans are okay too, but they're tasteless to me!

I also do, occasionally, have xylitol-sweetened homemade chocolate, but only occasionally. Other than that and the garlic and onion I use in bone broth I am zero carb and have been for well over a year.

I see what you mean. It's not necessarily Paleo but not exactly zero carbs. It sounds like you're both getting in somewhere between 1-4grams of carbs based upon how much onion and garlic is in the broth. Particularly the onions would have to account for some carb content even if it's negligible. I bought some sauerkraut and have put Wild Atlantic Kombu (kelp) in my broth so in total I can't be eating any more than 5 grams of carbs per day, if even, for the last 2 days.

Of course it also depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I don't know what you mean by falling off the wagon and going in and out of ketosis. I see people writing about that, but I don't usually see any data to go with it. What were your BOHB readings before and after falling off the wagon? You might think there is one thing going on when it is really something else, and going zero carb might help or might make it worse. My guess is that you have some issues with pathogens, but that's about all I can guess.

I basically surmised I was out of ketosis based on three major components. The first being my ketostix read white so I wasn't urinating out any ketones. And I know it's been said that you can't measure ketosis based on this, but when I'm good on the diet I am always in the darker pink/purple range so something definitely changed. 2) I was hungrier and needed to eat more 3) The next two days of going back to a steady diet would cause some muscle aches and pains.

I really hope I don't have any pathogens or latent viruses hanging around, but if I were to, would zero carb starve them out which is why my body is reacting in such a strong way. The carb monsters/bacteria are having serious sugar withdrawal?

Most knowledgable people I follow seem to think it's a bad idea to even go VLC, let alone "zero" carb, unless you just have to for some reason. It's more about "what might happen" given how little is known, and how much individual variability exists, rather than about specific concerns. But there could well be risks, and they might vary quite a bit from one individual to another. There's one way to find out...

I'm willing to give it another go but not just yet. I have to come at this from a different angle.

You can introduce some of the better carb options that have been mentioned here, or, you can continue to do what you are doing and add some other non-diet practices to your regimen. As Oxajil suggested, exercise is a really good one. It will not only help with the growth and repair of mtDNA but will elevate your mood. You don't have to go all out with it either. A half hour of intense exercise a few times a week can make a big difference.

I have been exercising but maybe adding in some short bursts of cardio might help with that followed by deep, relaxing stretching. But going from binging on sugary dark chocolate, cashews and drinking alcohol to zero carbs isn't the way to go. I think it was too much for my body and after reading the responses and trying to figure out where I need to 'retune', I think a transition period of VLC sources like sauerkraut and kombu (maybe switch that over to onions and garlic solely in broth at some point) to quell my carb tooth and L-Glutamine to help with cravings in general and then I will give it another go in a few months. But for now, it does seem like my mood has picked up a bit and I started taking Rhodiola Rosea

R. rosea may be effective for improving mood and alleviating depression. Pilot studies on human subjects[7][8][9] showed it improves physical and mental performance, and may reduce fatigue.

To help with the general depression and fatigue I've been experiencing. Something has shifted a bit things don't seem as grey as they were a few days ago.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have been struggling with the biochemistry and physiology of the ketogenic diet for a while. The longer I study it, the less clear it becomes - or the more complex.

About a year ago things looked quite simple:
- Reduce carbs to go into KD
- Reduce proteins to about 1g/kg of lean body weight to remain there - to not shunt amino acids into glucose neogenesis
- Increase fats to satiety - or less, to lose weight

Turns out this is not so easy! I have experimented with different carb/ fat/ protein ratios - and nothing seems to make much sense as to what level of ketosis I am in (as reflected by measuring BOHB in serum).

The following ideas have come up:
- Reduction in carbs is important, but maybe less that I think it does
- There is a fine line between nutritional ketosis and starvation ketosis, and at present I see no way of easily determining which is which, and I suppose there is a continuum between the two
- I think that the ratio between carbs and fat is a major determinant of KD - meaning that it might not be enough just to lower carbs, but that you HAVE TO increase fats at the same time

I found the following article a few days ago and it seems to imply that apart from the factors discussed above, the ratio of different micronutrients may also play a major role:

Methionine and choline regulate the metabolic phenotype of a ketogenic diet

Pavlos Pissios *, Shangyu Hong, Adam Richard Kennedy, Deepthi Prasad, Fen-Fen Liu, Eleftheria Maratos-Flier

ABSTRACT
Low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets are commonly used as weight loss alternatives to low-fat diets, however the physiological and molecular adaptations to these diets are not completely understood. It is assumed that the metabolic phenotype of the ketogenic diet (KD) is caused by the absence of carbohydrate and high fat content, however in rodents the protein content of KD affects weight gain and ketosis. In this study we examined the role of methionine and choline in mediating the metabolic effects of KD. We have found that choline was more effective than methionine in decreasing the liver steatosis of KD-fed mice. On the other hand, methionine supplementation was more effective than choline in restoring weight gain and normalizing the expression of several fatty acid and inflammatory genes in the liver of KD-fed mice. Our results indicate that choline and methionine restriction rather than carbohydrate restriction underlies many of the metabolic effects of KD.

The article can be downloaded for free here

The salient points are:

INTRODUCTION

Ketogenic diets are an accepted adjunct to pharmacologic therapy for the treatment of intractable epilepsy in children and are being investigated as means for the treatment of other cognitive disorders [1–3]. In addition to central nervous system effects, low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets are also considered as a potential alternative to low-fat, high-carbohydrate dieting in preventing obesity and its metabolic complications [4]. Human trials have shown that the weight loss achieved on low carbohydrate diets is equivalent to caloric restriction on a high carbohydrate diet and may also confer cardiovascular benefits [5–9].
Ketogenic diet (KD) induces a unique metabolic state in mice including weight loss, low circulating glucose and triglycerides, high serum ketones and increased energy expenditure [10]. In the genetically obese ob/ob mouse model, KD improves glucose tolerance independently of weight loss [11]. Metabolic adaptations to KD include decreased expression of gluconeogenic and lipogenic genes, while expression of genes regulating fatty acid oxidation and ketogenesis is increased, reflecting the use of fatty acids and ketones as a primary source of energy [10]. The fibroblast growth factor 21 (FGF21), originally identified as highly inducible by KD and PPARα agonists, mediates some of the metabolic effects of KD [12–14]. Undesirable side effects of KD in rodent models have also been reported. These include loss of lean mass, liver steatosis, inflammation and bone loss [10,15–17].

The specific nutrients in KD responsible for the metabolic phenotype are largely unknown. Recent studies demonstrate that weight gain in mice and rats depends on the protein content of KD [18,19]. Consistent with that, current formulation of KD is restricted to only about 10%, by weight, of casein, the sole protein source. Because of the low protein content and high caloric density, the methionine restriction in KD is approximately 75% compared to chow, which is close to 80% methionine restriction used in other studies [20]. In addition, KD contains no additional choline beyond what is present in the ingredients. For these reasons we investigated the effect of the relative methionine and choline restriction on the metabolic phenotype of KD.

Our results show that methionine supplementation of KD reverses the weight loss of mice, normalizes multiple metabolic parameters and regulates the expression of genes in fatty acid oxidation in the liver. Choline on the other hand is effective in reducing the fatty liver of mice fed KD. Thus, the relative methionine and choline restriction of KD underlies several of the metabolic effects of this diet.

[...]

DISCUSSION

Ketogenic diet in mice induces a unique metabolic profile characterized by weight loss, low glucose, high ketones and increased energy expenditure [10]. Although it is assumed that the metabolic profile of KD depends on the absence of carbohydrates and on the high fat content, recent work suggested that weight gain and induction of ketosis depends on the relative fat to protein ratio in the ketogenic diet [18,19].

In this study we tested the effect of methionine and choline supplementation of KD, both of which are limiting in the current formulation of rodent ketogenic diet, and provide experimental evidence that methionine restriction underlies several of the key metabolic phenotypes of KD. Thus methionine but not choline significantly increased body weight gain and lean mass of mice on KD. Two pathways potentially contribute to the increased body weight by methionine supplementation of KD. First, methionine is an essential amino acid and integral part of proteins. In this way, methionine might preserve the lean mass in KD fed mice and indirectly affect the metabolic rate. Second, gene expression and indirect calorimetry data suggest that methionine regulates energy expenditure potentially contributing to the increased body weight. Thus methionine but not choline suppressed the expression of uncoupling protein 2 and normalized the expression of several fatty acid oxidation genes increased by KD, such as Fgf21, Acadl, cyp4A10 and cyp4A14, as well as the ketogenic genes Hmgcs2 and Bdh. These scenarios are not mutually exclusive and might operate simultaneously. Our results are in agreement with other studies showing decreased weight gain and increased energy expenditure by methionine restriction despite employing different animal models and diets [20,25,26]. PPARα is the common upstream regulator of the many of the genes assayed suggesting that methionine content of KD regulates PPARα activity. This effect is not specific to KD as protein and methionine restriction have been shown to increase expression of PPARα targets on other diets as well The precise mechanism through which methionine regulates the activity of PPARα remains to be elucidated but it could be due to decreased availability of cysteine for which methionine is a precursor, as cysteine supplementation reverses the metabolic changes caused by methionine restriction [29].

Two known adverse consequences of KD are liver steatosis and inflammation [10,17,24]. Liver steatosis was partially improved by choline supplementation of KD, indicating that choline levels are limiting in KD. Choline is a known lipotropic agent and a precursor for the synthesis for phosphatidylcholine, necessary for the assembly and efficient export of liver VLDL triglycerides. While methionine did not affect liver triglyceride content, its restriction led to the induction of a number of proinflammatory and fibrogenic molecules in the liver, such as Tnfα, Tgfβ, ICAM and Vcam, which was reversed by methionine supplementation of KD.

In addition to being structural components of proteins and phospholipids, methionine is a precursor for the universal methyl donor S-Adenosyl-Methionine (SAM) and choline derivative betaine donates its methyl group for the remethylation of homocysteine back to methionine. Early clues that KD might affect methyl donor balance came from our previously published microarray analysis showing a significant decrease in the expression of major hepatic methyltransferases such as Bhmt, Ahcy, Gnmt, Nnmt and others. For this reason we measured SAM, SAH and their ratio to determine whether methyl donor balance could be linked to the phenotypic changes in our experimental cohorts. Somewhat surprisingly KD-fed mice maintained their liver SAM levels compared to chow-fed mice despite limited methionine and choline in this diet. Preservation of liver SAM could be a consequence of the suppressed GNMT expression, which controls SAM levels in hepatocytes
[30]. Consistent with the idea of decreased transmethylation, liver SAH levels were reduced on KD. Neither methionine nor choline was able to normalize SAM/SAH ratio and, with the exception of BHMT expression which was restored by methionine, the expression of multiple methyltransferases was not affected, suggesting that other components in KD are responsible for these changes. Our results are consistent with a recent publication reporting that isocaloric protein restriction in the rat decreases SAH content of the liver and increases SAM/SAH ratio, although the mechanism behind these changes might not be identical [27]. Thus some phenotypes of KD such as weight loss, increased energy expenditure and methyl donor balance resemble more the dietary models of protein and methionine estriction which confer a favorable metabolic phenotype [20,25,26], while other aspects of liver physiology such as increased inflammation and steatosis of KD resemble the extreme methionine and choline deficient diets used to induce liver steatosis, inflammation and fibrosis.

In conclusion, we show that some of the metabolic adaptations to KD can be attributed to specific dietary components other than the lack of carbohydrate in KD and its replacement by fat. Limiting methionine content of KD contributes to weight loss, increased expression of fatty acid oxidation and inflammatory genes while the low choline contributes to fatty liver. Thus supplementation of each specific nutrient corrects distinct metabolic consequences of KD. In addition, KD induces significant changes in the liver methyl donor balance and in the expression of several hepatic methyltransferases but these changes are not a consequence of the limiting methyl donors methionine and choline but most likely of other nutrients. Further investigation into the role of specific dietary ingredients on the metabolic phenotype of KD might improve the safety and efficacy of this dietary model and uncover novel regulators of nutrient physiology.

When I read the above I was thinking of those who loose more weight under a KD than they would like - maybe these people should try to either increase methionine-rich foods (egg white, fatty fish, game, poultry, crustacean) or, if sensitive to these, try to find a purified methionine source.

On the other hand, those who might experience symptoms of liver sluggishness might want to consider supplementing with choline bitartrate.

Don't take my word for anything - as stated above, this is very much a work in progress, download the article and have a read through it - to me the thing has become more and more nebulous, which indicates to me that I haven't understood a thing!

On another note, I have embarked on another sideline experiment to check out the behaviour of serum BOHB under a different diet. At the moment I am doing what you could call a "juice fast" - I drink three cups of juice from organic veggies (kale, celery, beetroot, carrots, garlic, ginger, tumeric, cabbage, apple, passionfruit etc.) as my sole food intake - to see how that affects my BOHB levels. I started yesterday, but already BOHB levels have shot up, despite what I am ingesting is mainly carbs, if not in huge quantities. I am well aware that I am probably in starvation ketosis, but I have decided to do that for one week and then see what happens.

So far I am feeling pretty good, not much hunger, not much brain fog, energy levels unchanged ... but I'll report back after cessation of that experiment!

 

[aragorn]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Nicklebleu, I had a quick look at the study and as in many other studies, what makes the results a bit unreliable is that the test subjects (mice) were such a short time on the KD. From what I could gather, it was something like 6 weeks.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Nicklebleu, I had a quick look at the study and as in many other studies, what makes the results a bit unreliable is that the test subjects (mice) were such a short time on the KD. From what I could gather, it was something like 6 weeks.

Very true! It's just a piece of the puzzle in the huge picture ...

 

[Tomek]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Ice creams are a big no-no for me, flares up eczema on my fingers and my feet every time I indulged myself for a cup.

Does the ice cream which causes your eczema to flare up contain milk products or is it made from other milks (e.g. rice, almond or coconut)?

Well, it was "mainstream" ice cream, and given the list of ingredients, I suspect that my reaction was due to high fructose syrup, or maybe gluten. I'm doing okay with slight amount of dairy : butter, heavy cream (and I mean heavy : 40% of fat), even some cheese from time to time. I used to eat raw coconut oil without being indisposed. Also, nothing to declare regarding almonds and rice. But gluten was the cause of my auto-immune issues. Also stress, but thanks to EE, that's manageable :)

 

[Goemon_]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If you just can't control it or there is some reason that you need to eat an ice cream to "appear ordinary", try to get a sorbet with NO milk products used in its making. Italian ices usually fit the bill and are scrumptious.

It was blackberry season here and I though I will try to test them and also I wanted to test my Vorwerk's Thermomix. I made Blackberry sorbet with fruits from arround the house + a little citrus juice + a little filtered water + 10g of xilytol per 100g of berry.

I think one's in a while should be ok but there was an another factor : it was just after a 45 days period without pushups (impossible due to an injury), without IF (I had though it would be better for good healing) and without cigarette (recommandation from the surgeon to not loose two phalanx on my finger). And the big conseguence of those three things was big cravings that has make my will incapable to escape gluttony (almost every day at the end of the period) : that is to say eating large quantity of protein and fat.

So, I was just recovering from that, and the ice cream get me tired. And now I'm back to strict KD (just keeping some avocado and some eggs).

I have still 1 kg of ice scream in the freezer that some friends will be happy to eat... alone this time.