Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[truth seeker]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I crashed and burned on Monday lunchtime and ate 6 gluten free bakewell tarts and a couple of choc bars - I just broke. So after around 3 months of being strict I failed but went back on keto Tuesday morning and now upping fat intake. I'm finding it hard getting all that fat (nearly 300g) in while IF. I'm having 3 large fat bombs a day just to reach my levels and am feeling that I'm vulnerable to breaking if I'm not careful in keeping myself full. It's all been sheer willpower and this week my willpower hasn't been as stubborn as in the past. I'm thinking that it was because I've been taking extra carbs last few weeks from veg to stop diarrhea that it increased my carb cravings to point of breaking so am only having one small portion of cabbage a day and keeping carbs rock bottom.

Those were my thoughts as well although others may have more to add. Now that you've decreased the carbs, see how you feel after awhile and let us know how you're doing.

 

[fabric]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I crashed and burned on Monday lunchtime and ate 6 gluten free bakewell tarts and a couple of choc bars - I just broke. So after around 3 months of being strict I failed but went back on keto Tuesday morning and now upping fat intake. I'm finding it hard getting all that fat (nearly 300g) in while IF. I'm having 3 large fat bombs a day just to reach my levels and am feeling that I'm vulnerable to breaking if I'm not careful in keeping myself full. It's all been sheer willpower and this week my willpower hasn't been as stubborn as in the past. I'm thinking that it was because I've been taking extra carbs last few weeks from veg to stop diarrhea that it increased my carb cravings to point of breaking so am only having one small portion of cabbage a day and keeping carbs rock bottom.

Wow, 300g of fat is lot. I think that may be too much to try and get in. Do you end up eating that much because you are feeling hungry? I know for myself, I do a maintenance level which is around 150 - 200g of fat daily and that's works for me even with doing crossfit workouts 3 times a week. I also find when I do over do it with the fat I get upset stomach or diarrhea.

 

[lainey]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I crashed and burned on Monday lunchtime and ate 6 gluten free bakewell tarts and a couple of choc bars - I just broke. So after around 3 months of being strict I failed but went back on keto Tuesday morning and now upping fat intake. I'm finding it hard getting all that fat (nearly 300g) in while IF. I'm having 3 large fat bombs a day just to reach my levels and am feeling that I'm vulnerable to breaking if I'm not careful in keeping myself full. It's all been sheer willpower and this week my willpower hasn't been as stubborn as in the past. I'm thinking that it was because I've been taking extra carbs last few weeks from veg to stop diarrhea that it increased my carb cravings to point of breaking so am only having one small portion of cabbage a day and keeping carbs rock bottom.

Wow, 300g of fat is lot. I think that may be too much to try and get in. Do you end up eating that much because you are feeling hungry? I know for myself, I do a maintenance level which is around 150 - 200g of fat daily and that's works for me even with doing crossfit workouts 3 times a week. I also find when I do over do it with the fat I get upset stomach or diarrhea.

I'll second that, I'm on about 180g a day with IF. I do yoga, cycle to work and do a stockroom job. In know you do the dog walking but that seems like a lot. Maybe the crash and burn has left you with cravings that you are trying to quell with fat.

 

[A Jay]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I crashed and burned on Monday lunchtime and ate 6 gluten free bakewell tarts and a couple of choc bars - I just broke. So after around 3 months of being strict I failed but went back on keto Tuesday morning and now upping fat intake. I'm finding it hard getting all that fat (nearly 300g) in while IF. I'm having 3 large fat bombs a day just to reach my levels and am feeling that I'm vulnerable to breaking if I'm not careful in keeping myself full. It's all been sheer willpower and this week my willpower hasn't been as stubborn as in the past. I'm thinking that it was because I've been taking extra carbs last few weeks from veg to stop diarrhea that it increased my carb cravings to point of breaking so am only having one small portion of cabbage a day and keeping carbs rock bottom.

I agree with previous posters that 300g seems excessive, from what you've described of your size, build, and activity level at least. What may be happening is that you're lack of knowing your daily requirements is leading to an over-estimation of your needs, causing you to spend an unnecessary amount of time thinking about food and making sure you're eating enough, which is making you more hungry. That's what I notice with myself sometimes, or even if I have an extra fat-bomb per day the sweetness of it, though slight, leaves me wanting more. I've also noticed that getting my fat from my meals in the form of extra butter/lard/bacon fat and not fat bombs helps a lot with satiety. So maybe cut back on the fat by cutting down to only one fat bomb per day, and upping the other fats used with meal prep to see how that effects you? Hope some of that helps.

How are you approaching IF?

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I crashed and burned on Monday lunchtime and ate 6 gluten free bakewell tarts and a couple of choc bars - I just broke. So after around 3 months of being strict I failed but went back on keto Tuesday morning and now upping fat intake. I'm finding it hard getting all that fat (nearly 300g) in while IF. I'm having 3 large fat bombs a day just to reach my levels and am feeling that I'm vulnerable to breaking if I'm not careful in keeping myself full. It's all been sheer willpower and this week my willpower hasn't been as stubborn as in the past. I'm thinking that it was because I've been taking extra carbs last few weeks from veg to stop diarrhea that it increased my carb cravings to point of breaking so am only having one small portion of cabbage a day and keeping carbs rock bottom.

I've found that the most efficient way to get the fat in is by drinking buttered tea in the morning. I can tolerate about 2 tablespoons of butter in a large mug. If I have two of these before noon, I'm rarely hungry the rest of the day but if I am, I snack on bacon or a fatty sausage. Late in the day, we might have dinner: a piece of meat and a small portion of green beans or a couple of slices of ham rolled up in a lettuce leaf with mayonnaise, or whatever. I eat a couple fat bombs a week, but mainly, I'm finding that the buttered tea is the "Bomb".

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Don't have much specific plans for the holidays/"caesarmas" - mostly will eat fatty meat meals as usual - and will just make a big batch of homemade low carb rich dark chocolate, using butter, cocoa butter, and maybe a bit of coconut oil, stevia, xylitol, and cocoa. That batch will probably last a week of small indulgences for everyone.

Eh, recipe please!

I crashed and burned on Monday lunchtime and ate 6 gluten free bakewell tarts and a couple of choc bars - I just broke. So after around 3 months of being strict I failed but went back on keto Tuesday morning and now upping fat intake. I'm finding it hard getting all that fat (nearly 300g) in while IF. I'm having 3 large fat bombs a day just to reach my levels and am feeling that I'm vulnerable to breaking if I'm not careful in keeping myself full. It's all been sheer willpower and this week my willpower hasn't been as stubborn as in the past. I'm thinking that it was because I've been taking extra carbs last few weeks from veg to stop diarrhea that it increased my carb cravings to point of breaking so am only having one small portion of cabbage a day and keeping carbs rock bottom.

Sorry I don't have an exact recipe for the chocolate, I wing it like many other things I make. Also I make it once or twice (at most) a year in the last few years. Say 400 grams of 82.5% fat grass-fed butter, up to 100 grams of pure cocoa butter, maybe a table spoon or two of coconut oil (if at all), up to 4 or 5 teaspoons of xylitol, about a teaspoon or so of stevia powder (plus up to 7 to 10 drops of liquid stevia possible), half teaspoon or more of sea salt, some vanilla, then add the cocoa powder a table spoon at a time.

Keep the heat moderate to low while melting the fats, then stirring in the xylitol while whisking steadly, then the stevia, then the sea salt and vanilla, and finally the cocoa powder. I go by color and taste to adjust. Sorry I don't have a precise recipe to give.


I agree with the others that you probably need to adjust things and see how they work. With 300 grams of fat (you mean 300 actual grams right? - for example, butter is not all fat, if you eat 180 grams of butter the fat content will be less), you are getting 2700 calories. And then the protein and little bit of carbs, your getting close to 3000 calories a day. Try adjusting things and see where you end up. You can probably have closer to 2000 calories a day easy and try to work your way up to 75% to 85% of daily calories in fat when you can definitely handle that much.

Sweet taste can have some people start cravings even if the carbs are actually quite low - something to keep in mind as well. I also use one cup of very fatty, semi-sweet cocoa almost every day to up the fat between the two main meals of late breakfast and early dinner. I put about 65 to 75 grams of 82.5% fat grass-fed butter and 25 grams of cocoa butter, stevia, and sea salt to one rounded teaspoon of cocoa powder and hot water.

 

[Altair]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I crashed and burned on Monday lunchtime and ate 6 gluten free bakewell tarts and a couple of choc bars - I just broke. So after around 3 months of being strict I failed but went back on keto Tuesday morning and now upping fat intake. I'm finding it hard getting all that fat (nearly 300g) in while IF. I'm having 3 large fat bombs a day just to reach my levels and am feeling that I'm vulnerable to breaking if I'm not careful in keeping myself full. It's all been sheer willpower and this week my willpower hasn't been as stubborn as in the past. I'm thinking that it was because I've been taking extra carbs last few weeks from veg to stop diarrhea that it increased my carb cravings to point of breaking so am only having one small portion of cabbage a day and keeping carbs rock bottom.

I've found that the most efficient way to get the fat in is by drinking buttered tea in the morning. I can tolerate about 2 tablespoons of butter in a large mug. If I have two of these before noon, I'm rarely hungry the rest of the day but if I am, I snack on bacon or a fatty sausage. Late in the day, we might have dinner: a piece of meat and a small portion of green beans or a couple of slices of ham rolled up in a lettuce leaf with mayonnaise, or whatever. I eat a couple fat bombs a week, but mainly, I'm finding that the buttered tea is the "Bomb".

Or you can try tea with coconut oil or hot low-carb cocoa + coconut oil + stevia if you can tolerate it. That's a real fat bomb.

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Regarding fat bombs (and mayonnaise), it is my experience that I can eat a LOT because it is so delicious. There is something about the emulsification process, and perhaps the added xylitol, that makes it less satiating, and if I'm not careful I can make myself feel sick. As was mentioned, buttered tea on the other hand does not give such an effect.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to wonder if we're shooting ourselves in the foot by using sugar alcohols too much. Anything sweet seems to increase hunger.

I agree with carb-up days being not only unnecessary, but self-defeating as well.

But the idea of using small amounts of glucose before a workout to restore depleted glycogen is pretty interesting, and I've been playing around with the idea in my mind for a while as to the mechanics behind it. I know darthluiggi has made some big gains using the TKD, and I may play around with it once my blood ketone strips come in. Although I'm wondering if the supplemented carbs used on the modified TKD is only necessary in those individuals with excessive training methods, i.e. intense weight-lifting more than once or twice a week where the body has structurally recovered and grown but hasn't had time to replenish lost glycogen or create new stores through gluconeogenisis. If this is the case, then increasing protein to between .64-.82g/lb of bodyweight and adding an extra rest day between workouts would likely negate the need for carbs without hindering or slowing down growth. Just speculation. Anyways, Dr. Jacob Wilson has a study coming out sometime soon on bodybuilder's building more muscle on a keto-diet than a Mediterranean diet, which should be an interesting read and is discussed a little here:

_http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=164012951

Yeah. Luigi has been on keto for 14 years apparently. If you look at his intagram videos he is huge (much bigger than I'd want to be) and at super low bodyfat, which does make me wonder if he's on steroids, but there's no way to know. Your theory sounds correct but relying totally on GNG has not worked in my case.
I did experiment with TKD for a couple of weeks, not long enough to get good data. I ended up upping my carbs over to a paleo 100-150g level early autumn, and made my first decent strength gains in over a year, as well as feeling more resilient in general. However my health and mental state suffered eventually, so switched back to keto, and I'm probably still within the adaptation period but have since lost most of that strength and am on my way to being super skinny again despite lifting 2-3 times a week. I think next week I will begin experimenting with the 15g dextrose thing again.

The study sounds very interesting!

 

[mugatea]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I agree with previous posters that 300g seems excessive, from what you've described of your size, build, and activity level at least. What may be happening is that you're lack of knowing your daily requirements is leading to an over-estimation of your needs, causing you to spend an unnecessary amount of time thinking about food and making sure you're eating enough, which is making you more hungry. That's what I notice with myself sometimes, or even if I have an extra fat-bomb per day the sweetness of it, though slight, leaves me wanting more. I've also noticed that getting my fat from my meals in the form of extra butter/lard/bacon fat and not fat bombs helps a lot with satiety. So maybe cut back on the fat by cutting down to only one fat bomb per day, and upping the other fats used with meal prep to see how that effects you? Hope some of that helps.

How are you approaching IF?

I do walk up to 5 hours a day - that's a lot of walking and mentally its very tiring too. I stop eating at 6pm and restart 8am.

I've found that the most efficient way to get the fat in is by drinking buttered tea in the morning. I can tolerate about 2 tablespoons of butter in a large mug. If I have two of these before noon, I'm rarely hungry the rest of the day but if I am, I snack on bacon or a fatty sausage. Late in the day, we might have dinner: a piece of meat and a small portion of green beans or a couple of slices of ham rolled up in a lettuce leaf with mayonnaise, or whatever. I eat a couple fat bombs a week, but mainly, I'm finding that the buttered tea is the "Bomb".

I've thought about the buttered tea, I think I'll have to try it. Thanks!

Jamie

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've found that the most efficient way to get the fat in is by drinking buttered tea in the morning. I can tolerate about 2 tablespoons of butter in a large mug. If I have two of these before noon, I'm rarely hungry the rest of the day but if I am, I snack on bacon or a fatty sausage. Late in the day, we might have dinner: a piece of meat and a small portion of green beans or a couple of slices of ham rolled up in a lettuce leaf with mayonnaise, or whatever. I eat a couple fat bombs a week, but mainly, I'm finding that the buttered tea is the "Bomb".

I've thought about the buttered tea, I think I'll have to try it. Thanks!

Jamie

I've also been doing this for every morning. It's very efficient and easy way to get fat. You can also use hand blender to quickly smooth the butter and/or coconut oil into the tea, so it becomes nice and silky. I sometimes also blend 1-2 organic egg yolks into the tea. They don't affect the flavour much but do give nice foamy texture in addition to their nutrient content.

 

[3DStudent]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'd agree that 300g of fat is quite much. I estimate I eat around 60g a meal so I'm about 180g for the whole day. I find it's easier to eat fat when it's not in a liquid state. So I'll heat up the meat separately and add the cold butter or room temperature beef tallow to the meat.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Regarding fat bombs (and mayonnaise), it is my experience that I can eat a LOT because it is so delicious. There is something about the emulsification process, and perhaps the added xylitol, that makes it less satiating, and if I'm not careful I can make myself feel sick. As was mentioned, buttered tea on the other hand does not give such an effect.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to wonder if we're shooting ourselves in the foot by using sugar alcohols too much. Anything sweet seems to increase hunger.

I don't seem to have the same experience. When I did have a fatbomb I couldn't have another one, because it was just the right amount of fat that could keep me going for hours. Even though it was sweet, it didn't make me more hungry. Maybe if you put less carbs/more fat in it, it won't have the same effect? Fwiw.

 

[Chad]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've found that the most efficient way to get the fat in is by drinking buttered tea in the morning. I can tolerate about 2 tablespoons of butter in a large mug. If I have two of these before noon, I'm rarely hungry the rest of the day but if I am, I snack on bacon or a fatty sausage. Late in the day, we might have dinner: a piece of meat and a small portion of green beans or a couple of slices of ham rolled up in a lettuce leaf with mayonnaise, or whatever. I eat a couple fat bombs a week, but mainly, I'm finding that the buttered tea is the "Bomb".

I've thought about the buttered tea, I think I'll have to try it. Thanks!

Jamie

I've also been doing this for every morning. It's very efficient and easy way to get fat. You can also use hand blender to quickly smooth the butter and/or coconut oil into the tea, so it becomes nice and silky. I sometimes also blend 1-2 organic egg yolks into the tea. They don't affect the flavour much but do give nice foamy texture in addition to their nutrient content.

I find my morning 150g x 3 egg yoke fat bomb in the morning is more than enough to carry me through the day - and that is how it feels - if i top up at lunch with a bit of protein. It did take me some time to adjust and i may lower it a little, but i've been doing it for 6 months straight and almost couldn't do with out it. I know if i'm feeling tired it's the only thing that stops me feeling like crap. Adding coconut oil seems to help me think.

On a recent outing I took some butter (and xylitol) with me and, because tea's not my thing and i needed a coffee, i just chopped off 50g of butter popped it in the paper cup and they dropped the espresso in direct. Maybe because it was so hot, it emulsified perfectly and was just a silky espresso and because, i think, the caffeine is 'buffered' by the fat, it doesn't give you the shakes (if you're sensitive). I'm not advising anyone to start supping coffee, just my experience.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Regarding fat bombs (and mayonnaise), it is my experience that I can eat a LOT because it is so delicious. There is something about the emulsification process, and perhaps the added xylitol, that makes it less satiating, and if I'm not careful I can make myself feel sick. As was mentioned, buttered tea on the other hand does not give such an effect.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to wonder if we're shooting ourselves in the foot by using sugar alcohols too much. Anything sweet seems to increase hunger.

I think this is true for some people, like me! So the buttered tea makes a big difference.

I DID try it with coffee but can only tolerate it about once a week because it makes me feel like I have pressure in my head; not very pleasant. So, it's tea for me!

 

[Yas]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Regarding fat bombs (and mayonnaise), it is my experience that I can eat a LOT because it is so delicious. There is something about the emulsification process, and perhaps the added xylitol, that makes it less satiating, and if I'm not careful I can make myself feel sick. As was mentioned, buttered tea on the other hand does not give such an effect.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to wonder if we're shooting ourselves in the foot by using sugar alcohols too much. Anything sweet seems to increase hunger.

I think this is true for some people, like me! So the buttered tea makes a big difference.

I DID try it with coffee but can only tolerate it about once a week because it makes me feel like I have pressure in my head; not very pleasant. So, it's tea for me!

Yes, I suppose that some people are pretty sensitive to sweet things. I noticed that adding a few more carbs or sweets in my diet makes me feel more hungry too.

I also feel pressure in my head after drinking coffee.

I recently started eating egg yolks again and it seems that I can tolerate them well, but I think I still have to be careful with eggs in general... it's a bit hard to get ALL the white out too...

For my fat intake, I usually relay on eating very fatty organ meats, such as the viscera and stomach, with the broth they have and I also add fat to it. I almost don't eat other meats actually and I've found the organs can be delicious even if they don't look that palatable