Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions
- Thread starter Laura
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Sure, that, of course, is your own choice. But just don't think that it somehow makes a person morally more "right" or "better". There are many other examples of kind and conscientious people, who were meat eaters. Actually, one could argue, that in this STS world we all have our lessons and roles, including animals. For example in nature there is a role of a "prey" and of a "predator". And no matter how "cruel" this situation may seem, if we were to remove the "predator" from the Nature's equation, it would disrupt the entire ecosystem.
The fact is, that Nature is not only about life but also about death, no way around it. And denying our role in this dynamic, that we have no choice but to kill if we are to live in the most optimal way, is to deny Nature's gift and opportunity to learn. The bottom line is, there is a lot of room between the two extremes (the factory farms cruelty and being a vegetarian), and there IS a way to allow farm animals to live good lives with respect, and then to allow them to fulfill their final role/sacrifice as Nature's gift of nourishment.
Cat said:
Sure, that, of course, is your own choice. But just don't think that it somehow makes a person morally more "right" or "better". There are many other examples of kind and conscientious people, who were meat eaters. Actually, one could argue, that in this STS world we all have our lessons and roles, including animals. For example in nature there is a role of a "prey" and of a "predator". And no matter how "cruel" this situation may seem, if we were to remove the "predator" from the Nature's equation, it would disrupt the entire ecosystem.
The fact is, that Nature is not only about life but also about death, no way around it. And denying our role in this dynamic, that we have no choice but to kill if we are to live in the most optimal way, is to deny Nature's gift and opportunity to learn. The bottom line is, there is a lot of room between the two extremes (the factory farms cruelty and being a vegetarian), and there IS a way to allow farm animals to live good lives with respect, and then to allow them to fulfill their final role/sacrifice as Nature's gift of nourishment.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Cat, I think it's a great thing to be conscious of the horrors of factory farming and wanting to do the least amount of harm to animals. I think we all agree there. The question is how to go about it - many think that a vegetarian or even vegan diet is the solution. But it's not that simple - I think Lierre Keith's book (she has been a vegan for years) explains it very well.
Just one example: Consider hunting. The hunter goes to the forest, tries to outsmart an animal and shoots it. Yes, it's horrifying to shoot these adorable creatures. But they had the best possible life any animal could wish for: life in freedom, and even a fair chance to evade the hunter. And the animal will feed the hunter for quite some time.
Now consider agriculture: The whole forest is cleared for planting crops. All the animals either die or flee in horror. Their home is destroyed. Many species go extinct in that region, if not completely. Where I live, there aren't even many rabbits left "thanks" to agriculture! And we know that we need a lot of agriculture to even feed one human being for some time.
So you see, where there's life, there's death, whether we are vegans, vegetarians or meat eaters. And it is my opinion that on a paleo/ketogenic diet we cause the least death, the least harm to our planet. But of course it's your choice how you want to eat. But if you are curious to learn more about why many here are (or became) meat eaters, then you can check out Lierre Keith's book, even just to know where we're coming from.
Cat said:
Cat, I think it's a great thing to be conscious of the horrors of factory farming and wanting to do the least amount of harm to animals. I think we all agree there. The question is how to go about it - many think that a vegetarian or even vegan diet is the solution. But it's not that simple - I think Lierre Keith's book (she has been a vegan for years) explains it very well.
Just one example: Consider hunting. The hunter goes to the forest, tries to outsmart an animal and shoots it. Yes, it's horrifying to shoot these adorable creatures. But they had the best possible life any animal could wish for: life in freedom, and even a fair chance to evade the hunter. And the animal will feed the hunter for quite some time.
Now consider agriculture: The whole forest is cleared for planting crops. All the animals either die or flee in horror. Their home is destroyed. Many species go extinct in that region, if not completely. Where I live, there aren't even many rabbits left "thanks" to agriculture! And we know that we need a lot of agriculture to even feed one human being for some time.
So you see, where there's life, there's death, whether we are vegans, vegetarians or meat eaters. And it is my opinion that on a paleo/ketogenic diet we cause the least death, the least harm to our planet. But of course it's your choice how you want to eat. But if you are curious to learn more about why many here are (or became) meat eaters, then you can check out Lierre Keith's book, even just to know where we're coming from.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Just to add a note. Ketogenic diet doesn't have anything to do with eating a lot of protein. It's a moderate protein diet, and some of us even restrict protein, at least at times. Keto is all about fat and low carbs. Also, the problem with vegan and vegetarian diets is not with getting enough protein (although you have to eat lots of veg based food to get enough and the right combinations, which leads to eating too much other undesirable things, e.g. too much carbs, fiber, etc., not to mention the anti-nutrients/lectins and other damaging stuff), but incomplete proteins in most veg based food, besides the lack of certain very important nutrients and the anti-nutrients and lectins that cause so much trouble for human health. Since plants can't run, fight or hide to be protected from being eaten, they have different defenses endowed by nature to keep the balance - that is a type of "chemical warfare", especially when it comes to protecting their seeds (future generations) so that animals can't eat too much of the plant life and eradicate it all before becoming sick or dying (oversimplified to make the point)....
Just to add a note. Ketogenic diet doesn't have anything to do with eating a lot of protein. It's a moderate protein diet, and some of us even restrict protein, at least at times. Keto is all about fat and low carbs. Also, the problem with vegan and vegetarian diets is not with getting enough protein (although you have to eat lots of veg based food to get enough and the right combinations, which leads to eating too much other undesirable things, e.g. too much carbs, fiber, etc., not to mention the anti-nutrients/lectins and other damaging stuff), but incomplete proteins in most veg based food, besides the lack of certain very important nutrients and the anti-nutrients and lectins that cause so much trouble for human health. Since plants can't run, fight or hide to be protected from being eaten, they have different defenses endowed by nature to keep the balance - that is a type of "chemical warfare", especially when it comes to protecting their seeds (future generations) so that animals can't eat too much of the plant life and eradicate it all before becoming sick or dying (oversimplified to make the point)....
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Lots of good responses here to Cat's expressions and feelings.
There is another (perhaps more esoteric) side to a response. If it is truly a farmer's aim to improve his land from microbe to animal including the well-being of his/her livestock through intensive examination and experimentation, a very natural bond forms between the farmer and his animals - one that is subtle and rarely quantified. IMO and based on my experience with pigs and cattle, this bond can have great benefit to the animal's own progressive (evolutionary) path. In other words, the human contact (if properly motivated) can enhance the animal's greater progression. I know this is very subjective - and probably the reason it is rarely discussed - but I think it very real. This connection/bond is much more pronounced in human-animal than human-plant. This a part of human stewardship/responsibility.
For example, Joel Salatin (early in his career as farmer) describes going out to his fields with a lawn chair to examine the cattle (and take a snooze). The cattle would come to make it a mutual examination. Its hard to describe or quantify the bonds formed in this way. He rarely addresses this aspect of small farming - probably due to the difficulty of describing this kind of bond.
So I think there are important aspects of this bonding that weigh heavily in favor of the small farmer and true stewardship/responsibility/husbandry.
Lots of good responses here to Cat's expressions and feelings.
There is another (perhaps more esoteric) side to a response. If it is truly a farmer's aim to improve his land from microbe to animal including the well-being of his/her livestock through intensive examination and experimentation, a very natural bond forms between the farmer and his animals - one that is subtle and rarely quantified. IMO and based on my experience with pigs and cattle, this bond can have great benefit to the animal's own progressive (evolutionary) path. In other words, the human contact (if properly motivated) can enhance the animal's greater progression. I know this is very subjective - and probably the reason it is rarely discussed - but I think it very real. This connection/bond is much more pronounced in human-animal than human-plant. This a part of human stewardship/responsibility.
For example, Joel Salatin (early in his career as farmer) describes going out to his fields with a lawn chair to examine the cattle (and take a snooze). The cattle would come to make it a mutual examination. Its hard to describe or quantify the bonds formed in this way. He rarely addresses this aspect of small farming - probably due to the difficulty of describing this kind of bond.
So I think there are important aspects of this bonding that weigh heavily in favor of the small farmer and true stewardship/responsibility/husbandry.
Cat
The Force is Strong With This One
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
It is said that farming is harming the planet. Lets really take stock of what is 'harming' the planet and how it relates to 4D STO candidate.
1. Fossil fuels. Don't hear anyone giving up their cars...yet. If I was kicking up a fuss for that, would you go to the 'C's and see if they would say to stop driving your cars because it is causing harm to the planet? Eating flesh is much higher on your want list.
2. Farming also includes animal husbandry and the harm that does to the planet is egregious. Swine flu, avian flu, mass and I mean mass culling of pigs and birds in the millions at a time, buried alive.
3. Global warming.... animal farming people? Anyone research that? In all fairness, there is so much crap out there one can't define totally if global warming is due to us, part of us or a natural phenomenom.
4. Industry alone that dumps toxic wastes into the water system and land.
5. Pollution to the oceans. Anyone research that? It is insane.
6. Fluoride in the water. Do any of you take precautions against this? Our water system is tainted on purpose.
7. The 'control system' has over run everything pretty much and that includes squeezing out the local little independent farmer to big corporate farms that don't give a ratz azz about the earth. It is all about the money. Organic farming replenishes the earth which cares about the soil and is sustainability instead of assaulting it with pesticides and herbicides. Organic farms are under attack by the government. Do you shop organically?
8. Animal slaughter houses pool the waste...blood into large cesspools. I have visions of lizzies/greys bathing in it. Lets keep the blood flowing. For those of you who say, well I buy organic flesh, or I treat my animals well before I kill them.... there is no such thing humane killing. If someone stole your daughter, raped and killed her and then learn the killer was real nice to her at first. He wined and dined her, bought her flowers, treated her with dignity and respect...up until he raped and killed her,.... would that make a difference? Isn't that the 'mark' of a psychopath?
Lets look at those who in the slaughter houses who do the dirty work. They kill animals with impunity, day and night for their pay check. Now, aren't we supporting psychopaths? Lets look at the animal raising,..... those who profit from the deaths of animals. Could these people too be those organic portals, those psychopaths who do this line of work? You want to support that? !!! Nobody has said that growing vegetables and fruit is murder. Now that is just plain ridiculous.
Do we get out in the wild, and like an wolf, run down our prey, launch onto it with our teeth directed at the neck, bring it down, rip open the neck and kill? Do we eat the hair, skin, flesh, organs and gnaw on bones.... all raw to sustain ourselves?
9. Man's own 'foot print'. Garbage.... trillions of tons of garbage? Research that.
10. Oil spills a plenty in the oceans.
11. Animal farming is not sustainable....period. Research it. Government (which is the peoples money) injects a lot of money to keep this ugly going and is sucking the life out of the planet.
It appears you base the continuance of the horror to animals based on one frick'n book. You have to read a lot of material to get a better perspective. The C's give bits and pieces of information on specific things but you never get the whole picture. You have to research, you have to read, you have to look deeper...and not take their word for anything. How many times have we heard this? I could go on.
What I've learned, if the government is behind it, like hunting wolves and other wildlife, monsanto evil seeds program, animal slaughter for food, that adds up to 4D STS agenda. Think, why would the seeds be corrupted? Why is Bill Gates building a state of the art ark for seeds?
Look at the big picture. When a people just look at one aspect that endorses the predator agenda, I ain't buying it. I also figure that this meat eating addiction, this unwillingingness to change to a peaceful response to how we cause harm, violence to animals begs analysis. When we just leave wildlife alone, natural law takes over with their natural cycle. We can even look at the allegorical story of Adam and Eve when she ate the apple, they didn't choose eating the pig.
Someone responded to one of my comments that I said, the animals are here with us, not for us....and their response was what made me think the animals weren't here for us? In response to that, what makes you think that we aren't here for the animals. Dominion doesn't mean abuse and murder.
I look at history, how religion was recreated, Yahweh is the 'devil' and incorporated the sacrifice of animals, the drinking of blood and the eating of flesh, bow down to him and worship him. Yet, here we are supporting the sacrifice of animals, the drinking of their blood and eating of their flesh through our meals. What is the difference?
I do the opposite of what the predator lizzy do to the best of my ability. I distance myself as much as possible from their behavior to protect myself. If the lizzies are doing it, I am not. Again, do the least amount of harm.
Even if the eating of flesh somehow assists in our vibration, I wouldn't use that method because it is wrong to harm. The C's also said the eating of flesh isn't the only path. They are stating facts, not moral or ethical attributes. I'd question anything that supports a method to higher density with the use of harm. Is it ok to kill animals because you are going to get something. Isn't that STS thinking?
Don't support commercial farming, buy locally. Lots of organic products online. There are very few organic soy producers but one I like is Laura's Soybeans. So many choices for good, healthy, organic products that don't include animals. I've been vegan for a long time. I will NOT do harm to animals and just because one person wrote a book to sway you from this is egregious. One book.... please. I've done my research, you do yours.
Critical thinking.....
It is said that farming is harming the planet. Lets really take stock of what is 'harming' the planet and how it relates to 4D STO candidate.
1. Fossil fuels. Don't hear anyone giving up their cars...yet. If I was kicking up a fuss for that, would you go to the 'C's and see if they would say to stop driving your cars because it is causing harm to the planet? Eating flesh is much higher on your want list.
2. Farming also includes animal husbandry and the harm that does to the planet is egregious. Swine flu, avian flu, mass and I mean mass culling of pigs and birds in the millions at a time, buried alive.
3. Global warming.... animal farming people? Anyone research that? In all fairness, there is so much crap out there one can't define totally if global warming is due to us, part of us or a natural phenomenom.
4. Industry alone that dumps toxic wastes into the water system and land.
5. Pollution to the oceans. Anyone research that? It is insane.
6. Fluoride in the water. Do any of you take precautions against this? Our water system is tainted on purpose.
7. The 'control system' has over run everything pretty much and that includes squeezing out the local little independent farmer to big corporate farms that don't give a ratz azz about the earth. It is all about the money. Organic farming replenishes the earth which cares about the soil and is sustainability instead of assaulting it with pesticides and herbicides. Organic farms are under attack by the government. Do you shop organically?
8. Animal slaughter houses pool the waste...blood into large cesspools. I have visions of lizzies/greys bathing in it. Lets keep the blood flowing. For those of you who say, well I buy organic flesh, or I treat my animals well before I kill them.... there is no such thing humane killing. If someone stole your daughter, raped and killed her and then learn the killer was real nice to her at first. He wined and dined her, bought her flowers, treated her with dignity and respect...up until he raped and killed her,.... would that make a difference? Isn't that the 'mark' of a psychopath?
Lets look at those who in the slaughter houses who do the dirty work. They kill animals with impunity, day and night for their pay check. Now, aren't we supporting psychopaths? Lets look at the animal raising,..... those who profit from the deaths of animals. Could these people too be those organic portals, those psychopaths who do this line of work? You want to support that? !!! Nobody has said that growing vegetables and fruit is murder. Now that is just plain ridiculous.
Do we get out in the wild, and like an wolf, run down our prey, launch onto it with our teeth directed at the neck, bring it down, rip open the neck and kill? Do we eat the hair, skin, flesh, organs and gnaw on bones.... all raw to sustain ourselves?
9. Man's own 'foot print'. Garbage.... trillions of tons of garbage? Research that.
10. Oil spills a plenty in the oceans.
11. Animal farming is not sustainable....period. Research it. Government (which is the peoples money) injects a lot of money to keep this ugly going and is sucking the life out of the planet.
It appears you base the continuance of the horror to animals based on one frick'n book. You have to read a lot of material to get a better perspective. The C's give bits and pieces of information on specific things but you never get the whole picture. You have to research, you have to read, you have to look deeper...and not take their word for anything. How many times have we heard this? I could go on.
What I've learned, if the government is behind it, like hunting wolves and other wildlife, monsanto evil seeds program, animal slaughter for food, that adds up to 4D STS agenda. Think, why would the seeds be corrupted? Why is Bill Gates building a state of the art ark for seeds?
Look at the big picture. When a people just look at one aspect that endorses the predator agenda, I ain't buying it. I also figure that this meat eating addiction, this unwillingingness to change to a peaceful response to how we cause harm, violence to animals begs analysis. When we just leave wildlife alone, natural law takes over with their natural cycle. We can even look at the allegorical story of Adam and Eve when she ate the apple, they didn't choose eating the pig.
Someone responded to one of my comments that I said, the animals are here with us, not for us....and their response was what made me think the animals weren't here for us? In response to that, what makes you think that we aren't here for the animals. Dominion doesn't mean abuse and murder.
I look at history, how religion was recreated, Yahweh is the 'devil' and incorporated the sacrifice of animals, the drinking of blood and the eating of flesh, bow down to him and worship him. Yet, here we are supporting the sacrifice of animals, the drinking of their blood and eating of their flesh through our meals. What is the difference?
I do the opposite of what the predator lizzy do to the best of my ability. I distance myself as much as possible from their behavior to protect myself. If the lizzies are doing it, I am not. Again, do the least amount of harm.
Even if the eating of flesh somehow assists in our vibration, I wouldn't use that method because it is wrong to harm. The C's also said the eating of flesh isn't the only path. They are stating facts, not moral or ethical attributes. I'd question anything that supports a method to higher density with the use of harm. Is it ok to kill animals because you are going to get something. Isn't that STS thinking?
Don't support commercial farming, buy locally. Lots of organic products online. There are very few organic soy producers but one I like is Laura's Soybeans. So many choices for good, healthy, organic products that don't include animals. I've been vegan for a long time. I will NOT do harm to animals and just because one person wrote a book to sway you from this is egregious. One book.... please. I've done my research, you do yours.
Critical thinking.....
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Cat,
Thank you for laying out how you see things. In fact, I agree with many things you wrote. However, you seem unwilling to consider our position/our arguments here - it's not based on one single book, but on years of intense research and, frankly, a good portion of common sense. And Keith's work is just an excellent book which sums up a lot of things. So why not read it to understand where we are coming from? Maybe just to counter our arguments?
Yes indeed. And this applies to the highly propagated-by-mainstream vegan/vegetarian lifestyle as well, don't you think?
Cat,
Thank you for laying out how you see things. In fact, I agree with many things you wrote. However, you seem unwilling to consider our position/our arguments here - it's not based on one single book, but on years of intense research and, frankly, a good portion of common sense. And Keith's work is just an excellent book which sums up a lot of things. So why not read it to understand where we are coming from? Maybe just to counter our arguments?
Cat said:
Yes indeed. And this applies to the highly propagated-by-mainstream vegan/vegetarian lifestyle as well, don't you think?
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I see where you're coming from Cat. You've made some fair points, so I'll try to respond to each one.
I'm not sure exactly what you eat, but you probably wouldn't be able to eat if it wasn't for fossil fuels. They are used to fertilize monocrops.
Regarding animal husbandry harming the land, check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI.
This article should be enough to address that point.
http://www.sott.net/article/269256-Volcanic-eruptions-rising-CO2-boiling-oceans-and-why-man-made-global-warming-is-not-even-wrong
These topics are covered throughout the forum and we are very aware of them.
This is true. The problem is not that we eat animals. The problem is that humanity is ruled by psychopaths and infected by psychopathic thinking. Because of this, as a race we cannot do anything sustainably and sensibly, whether we are growing steaks or soybeans. We are well aware of this.
Not sure if this will help, but what you just did was use a paramoralism of the most outrageous kind.
Definition: http://thecasswiki.net/index.php?title=Paramoralism
But at the end of the day, if you can't see the difference between raping/murdering a woman and eating animal meat, there's not much more to be said.
A vegetable and a pig are equally alive. Both are natural outgrowths of a living system that functions in a circle of life and death. One just has a face and legs. Why would you discriminate against certain forms of life?
Historically we used tools, and later cooking, to better effect. We were given brains instead of claws.
Virtually nothing humanity engages in on a large scale is sustainable. That's not gonna change through avoiding animal products. Humanity is screwed and our goal here is not to "save the world" but simply to learn our lessons. And FYI, animal farming on a smaller scale is very sustainable.
If you think the research gathered here is from 1 book, you haven't actually read the research. Add a couple of zeros to that number and then we're talking. This forum is comprised of many ex-vegans/vegetarians who finally turned to a high fat diet in search of relief from chronic health problems. And it worked for many.
The rest of your argument seems to boil down to: STS Humans suck, I don't wanna be an STS human. I can totally relate to that. But you are here, in STS land, and you are an STS human. Whether you eat plants or animals, you are still taking from the living system to fuel your STS nature, as is everyone here. The natural cycle of life and death is part of this world, like a yin yang.
Our goal is not to simply cease all STS activity and magically transport to STO land. It is to fuel our brains and bodies optimally, so that we can function properly and do what we are here to do. And the most optimal way happens to include eating nutrient-dense food that comes from animals. That's really all there is to it.
I see where you're coming from Cat. You've made some fair points, so I'll try to respond to each one.
Cat said:
I'm not sure exactly what you eat, but you probably wouldn't be able to eat if it wasn't for fossil fuels. They are used to fertilize monocrops.
Regarding animal husbandry harming the land, check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI.
This article should be enough to address that point.
http://www.sott.net/article/269256-Volcanic-eruptions-rising-CO2-boiling-oceans-and-why-man-made-global-warming-is-not-even-wrong
These topics are covered throughout the forum and we are very aware of them.
This is true. The problem is not that we eat animals. The problem is that humanity is ruled by psychopaths and infected by psychopathic thinking. Because of this, as a race we cannot do anything sustainably and sensibly, whether we are growing steaks or soybeans. We are well aware of this.
Not sure if this will help, but what you just did was use a paramoralism of the most outrageous kind.
Definition: http://thecasswiki.net/index.php?title=Paramoralism
But at the end of the day, if you can't see the difference between raping/murdering a woman and eating animal meat, there's not much more to be said.
A vegetable and a pig are equally alive. Both are natural outgrowths of a living system that functions in a circle of life and death. One just has a face and legs. Why would you discriminate against certain forms of life?
Historically we used tools, and later cooking, to better effect. We were given brains instead of claws.
Virtually nothing humanity engages in on a large scale is sustainable. That's not gonna change through avoiding animal products. Humanity is screwed and our goal here is not to "save the world" but simply to learn our lessons. And FYI, animal farming on a smaller scale is very sustainable.
If you think the research gathered here is from 1 book, you haven't actually read the research. Add a couple of zeros to that number and then we're talking. This forum is comprised of many ex-vegans/vegetarians who finally turned to a high fat diet in search of relief from chronic health problems. And it worked for many.
The rest of your argument seems to boil down to: STS Humans suck, I don't wanna be an STS human. I can totally relate to that. But you are here, in STS land, and you are an STS human. Whether you eat plants or animals, you are still taking from the living system to fuel your STS nature, as is everyone here. The natural cycle of life and death is part of this world, like a yin yang.
Our goal is not to simply cease all STS activity and magically transport to STO land. It is to fuel our brains and bodies optimally, so that we can function properly and do what we are here to do. And the most optimal way happens to include eating nutrient-dense food that comes from animals. That's really all there is to it.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
George Carlin on the Arrogance of Man sums it up pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjRGee5ipM
Long after mankind is gone, the planet will still be here. Rest assured, humans will not 'save the planet'.
George Carlin on the Arrogance of Man sums it up pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjRGee5ipM
Long after mankind is gone, the planet will still be here. Rest assured, humans will not 'save the planet'.
Mr. Premise
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Cat, you talk about the blood and animal waste. If you read Lierre Keith's book you would know that you can't grow plants organically without using manure, blood meal, and bone meal. Where do you think that comes from?
Cat, you talk about the blood and animal waste. If you read Lierre Keith's book you would know that you can't grow plants organically without using manure, blood meal, and bone meal. Where do you think that comes from?
Cat
The Force is Strong With This One
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Well, if eating meat is the way, lets start killing our neighbours, our children... we must evolve on the blood of man...and animals.
Meat is meat, blood is blood, suffering is suffering. Does this sound like a lizzie agenda? It sure does to me.
You agree with me but dismiss me. What is up with that?
Yes, we have choices .... I made mine at 5 years old.
Well, if eating meat is the way, lets start killing our neighbours, our children... we must evolve on the blood of man...and animals.
Meat is meat, blood is blood, suffering is suffering. Does this sound like a lizzie agenda? It sure does to me.
You agree with me but dismiss me. What is up with that?
Yes, we have choices .... I made mine at 5 years old.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
The brains decision making systems aren't fully formed until 20-30 years old.
At the age of 5, the sorts of decisions you can make are "I like sweet things - I should eat those all the time".
To have been denied vital nutrients since the age of 5 probably means your neurological systems may never have fully developed (your brain needs fat).
Allowing a 5 year old the freedom to make that sort of choice suggests a parent who always wanted to be 'nice', who didn't care, who forced this upon you.
Some things to ponder - if you can.
How much of the rest of your life is full of drama and emotional whirlwinds?
How many different emotional dramas happen every day?
Do you find that most decisions others make just seem cruel and unusual - as if your the only person who gets it?
Do you feel like a kid trapped in an adults body - that everything was easier as a kid?
Do you find daily tasks like paperwork difficult and overly stressful?
Cat said:
The brains decision making systems aren't fully formed until 20-30 years old.
At the age of 5, the sorts of decisions you can make are "I like sweet things - I should eat those all the time".
To have been denied vital nutrients since the age of 5 probably means your neurological systems may never have fully developed (your brain needs fat).
Allowing a 5 year old the freedom to make that sort of choice suggests a parent who always wanted to be 'nice', who didn't care, who forced this upon you.
Some things to ponder - if you can.
How much of the rest of your life is full of drama and emotional whirlwinds?
How many different emotional dramas happen every day?
Do you find that most decisions others make just seem cruel and unusual - as if your the only person who gets it?
Do you feel like a kid trapped in an adults body - that everything was easier as a kid?
Do you find daily tasks like paperwork difficult and overly stressful?
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Okay, if you've already made your choice, great! I can respect your decision even if I don't agree with what you have to say. However, if in your mind you can somehow connect eating meat with the eventual killing of our neighbours and children then you need to find people who share similar sentiments and leave those people who don't, alone.
There's a difference between listening to what someone else has to say and agreeing with them. You have been listened to and based on years of research and trial and error, most of us on the forum disagree with you on this subject and are in agreement that we need to eat meat and that it is essential to our overall health.
If you don't like that - too bad.
The C's said that STS does not become an STO candidate by determining the needs of others. Most of us who participate on the forum see the need for eating meat and even though you are obviously passionate about and believe you are right, doesn't mean you can determine what kind of foods we need to eat or pass moral judgment on anyone here.
So please try and question why you feel the need to push your beliefs here, and if you are unwilling to listen to what anyone else on here has to say or question yourself, which I can understand might be hard since you made the choice not to eat meat at 5, then find somewhere else where you can gain that validation and interact with people who have similar points of view.
Cat said:
Okay, if you've already made your choice, great! I can respect your decision even if I don't agree with what you have to say. However, if in your mind you can somehow connect eating meat with the eventual killing of our neighbours and children then you need to find people who share similar sentiments and leave those people who don't, alone.
There's a difference between listening to what someone else has to say and agreeing with them. You have been listened to and based on years of research and trial and error, most of us on the forum disagree with you on this subject and are in agreement that we need to eat meat and that it is essential to our overall health.
If you don't like that - too bad.
The C's said that STS does not become an STO candidate by determining the needs of others. Most of us who participate on the forum see the need for eating meat and even though you are obviously passionate about and believe you are right, doesn't mean you can determine what kind of foods we need to eat or pass moral judgment on anyone here.
So please try and question why you feel the need to push your beliefs here, and if you are unwilling to listen to what anyone else on here has to say or question yourself, which I can understand might be hard since you made the choice not to eat meat at 5, then find somewhere else where you can gain that validation and interact with people who have similar points of view.
Miss.K
Dagobah Resident
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Hi Cat,
I don't think anybody dismisses you. Everybody is simply answering your questions.
It is very simple. I don't think there is anybody here who likes to kill to live. That's where we agree with you.
But a lot of research that has been done here shows that the vegetarian option is not the best option if one wants to do minimum harm possible,. It causes far worse harm to the planet, the animals populating the planet, and also to humans. You will have to read some of the suggested material to understand this.
How do you feel about animals that are predators? Do you understand that they are as important for the ecosystem as the prey animals?
Do you think for example cats and dogs are bad creatures who have chosen the STS path, and mice and rabbits are good creatures that have chosen the STO path?
Nobody here is advocating for factory farming or torturing anybody. If you are really interested in understanding why people here who strive to be STO candidates have chosen to eat meat, take a deep breath, and read some of the suggested material.
As you say "critical thinking" You might want to do a search on sott.net on soy before eating more of it. It is very bad for the brain, and it can be hard to do critical thinking when the brain don't function well.
Cat said:
Hi Cat,
I don't think anybody dismisses you. Everybody is simply answering your questions.
It is very simple. I don't think there is anybody here who likes to kill to live. That's where we agree with you.
But a lot of research that has been done here shows that the vegetarian option is not the best option if one wants to do minimum harm possible,. It causes far worse harm to the planet, the animals populating the planet, and also to humans. You will have to read some of the suggested material to understand this.
How do you feel about animals that are predators? Do you understand that they are as important for the ecosystem as the prey animals?
Do you think for example cats and dogs are bad creatures who have chosen the STS path, and mice and rabbits are good creatures that have chosen the STO path?
Nobody here is advocating for factory farming or torturing anybody. If you are really interested in understanding why people here who strive to be STO candidates have chosen to eat meat, take a deep breath, and read some of the suggested material.
As you say "critical thinking" You might want to do a search on sott.net on soy before eating more of it. It is very bad for the brain, and it can be hard to do critical thinking when the brain don't function well.